Is it wrong to be angry? If it is a disease, do they have control?
Alive in the Superunknown
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Anger is natural, no doubt, but I don't think it's helpful in most cases. Your anger is understandable, but at some point I think you'll need to let go of it lest you continue giving him power over your own emotional state.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,002
In many ways describing addiction/alcoholism as a "disease" isn't very accurate however, I do believe it is the best word/paradigm we have for it.
A recovering alcoholic priest advised a parishioner with an alcoholic wife to "throw the addict naked into the snow, lock the door and do not listen to his/her screams". Many experts would agree that this is the best treatment for this disease. In many ways, cancer and other heinous diseases would be easier to deal with.
A recovering alcoholic priest advised a parishioner with an alcoholic wife to "throw the addict naked into the snow, lock the door and do not listen to his/her screams". Many experts would agree that this is the best treatment for this disease. In many ways, cancer and other heinous diseases would be easier to deal with.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by Bekindalways 
A recovering alcoholic priest advised a parishioner with an alcoholic wife to "throw the addict naked into the snow, lock the door and do not listen to his/her screams".
The best thing to do is to do what is right for OURSELVES and our children, because ultimately WE are the only ones over whom we have any power, and WE are the ones we are responsible for protecting. It's possible to do that without being cruel.
Everyone's circumstances are different, but when I left my second husband (after he had signed a lease, without my permission, for a house we could no longer afford due to his unemployment and I had told him not to do it), I left him enough money for ONE MONTH's rent, giving him a fair chance to find somewhere else to go. I left him enough household goods (the vast majority of which I brought into this short-lived marriage) to function, to the extent that he could. I was kind, but I looked out for myself.
There's no need to kick someone when they're down. They may ACCUSE us of doing that, when all we are doing is caring for ourselves, but if we avoid gratuitous pain, we will have less to regret, ourselves, down the road.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
This "advice" seems to recommend cruelty. This isn't a "treatment" for alcoholism, although alcoholism does thrive in the presence of an enabler who makes it possible to drink without consequences.
The best thing to do is to do what is right for OURSELVES and our children, because ultimately WE are the only ones over whom we have any power, and WE are the ones we are responsible for protecting. It's possible to do that without being cruel.
Everyone's circumstances are different, but when I left my second husband (after he had signed a lease, without my permission, for a house we could no longer afford due to his unemployment and I had told him not to do it), I left him enough money for ONE MONTH's rent, giving him a fair chance to find somewhere else to go. I left him enough household goods (the vast majority of which I brought into this short-lived marriage) to function, to the extent that he could. I was kind, but I looked out for myself.
There's no need to kick someone when they're down. They may ACCUSE us of doing that, when all we are doing is caring for ourselves, but if we avoid gratuitous pain, we will have less to regret, ourselves, down the road.
The best thing to do is to do what is right for OURSELVES and our children, because ultimately WE are the only ones over whom we have any power, and WE are the ones we are responsible for protecting. It's possible to do that without being cruel.
Everyone's circumstances are different, but when I left my second husband (after he had signed a lease, without my permission, for a house we could no longer afford due to his unemployment and I had told him not to do it), I left him enough money for ONE MONTH's rent, giving him a fair chance to find somewhere else to go. I left him enough household goods (the vast majority of which I brought into this short-lived marriage) to function, to the extent that he could. I was kind, but I looked out for myself.
There's no need to kick someone when they're down. They may ACCUSE us of doing that, when all we are doing is caring for ourselves, but if we avoid gratuitous pain, we will have less to regret, ourselves, down the road.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Oh, yeah, I definitely get that--invested in being kind. But being kind doesn't require us to put someone else's "feelings" (which may be very real for them) ahead of our own well-being. The fact that they FEEL abandoned doesn't mean we are abandoning them. As we say all the time, feelings aren't facts.
That's why forums like this are so valuable in terms of a reality check. "Am I being reasonable? Am I being gratuitously cruel?" Someone on the outside has a much more objective view of the situation.
I do think it's important that we not inflict UNNECESSARY pain--on ourselves or others. Even the alcoholics we are trying to detach from or leave. Some pain is inevitable on both sides, but considering whether it's just a necessary byproduct of our doing the right thing, or whether it's motivated by a desire to make them suffer the way we have suffered, is a worthwhile endeavor.
That's why forums like this are so valuable in terms of a reality check. "Am I being reasonable? Am I being gratuitously cruel?" Someone on the outside has a much more objective view of the situation.
I do think it's important that we not inflict UNNECESSARY pain--on ourselves or others. Even the alcoholics we are trying to detach from or leave. Some pain is inevitable on both sides, but considering whether it's just a necessary byproduct of our doing the right thing, or whether it's motivated by a desire to make them suffer the way we have suffered, is a worthwhile endeavor.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,002
Originally Posted by LexieCat
Oh, yeah, I definitely get that--invested in being kind. But being kind doesn't require us to put someone else's "feelings" (which may be very real for them) ahead of our own well-being. The fact that they FEEL abandoned doesn't mean we are abandoning them. As we say all the time, feelings aren't facts.
That's why forums like this are so valuable in terms of a reality check. "Am I being reasonable? Am I being gratuitously cruel?" Someone on the outside has a much more objective view of the situation.
I do think it's important that we not inflict UNNECESSARY pain--on ourselves or others. Even the alcoholics we are trying to detach from or leave. Some pain is inevitable on both sides, but considering whether it's just a necessary byproduct of our doing the right thing, or whether it's motivated by a desire to make them suffer the way we have suffered, is a worthwhile endeavor.
That's why forums like this are so valuable in terms of a reality check. "Am I being reasonable? Am I being gratuitously cruel?" Someone on the outside has a much more objective view of the situation.
I do think it's important that we not inflict UNNECESSARY pain--on ourselves or others. Even the alcoholics we are trying to detach from or leave. Some pain is inevitable on both sides, but considering whether it's just a necessary byproduct of our doing the right thing, or whether it's motivated by a desire to make them suffer the way we have suffered, is a worthwhile endeavor.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
I bottled a lot of frustration and anger during my relationship with my ex, because I didn't like confrontation and I didn't like it when he got defensive to where he would completely be so nasty to me. I had to refrain many times on speaking my mind just to keep the peace.
Towards the end, he kept pushing me and pushing me to where I found myself shouting back at him. I hated myself for doing that. I was angry at him for pushing me to that position.
He finally went into recovery after I could no longer tolerate his behavior and walked away.
After some space between us, he did start trying to make amends. He told me he was to blame for the breakdown of our relationship. We spoke of the things that he did and how sorry he was.
I really thought he was getting somewhere..I started to forgive him.
But then, every so often he would say, there is blame on both sides for a breakdown of a relationship.
I caught him saying that recently and it brings back the frustration I was getting over.
Inside my emotions were brewing up again. The memories of the pain and hurt he caused me during those 3 years. How can he say there was blame on both sides? How can he say I did wrong too? He is going backwards again trying to shift blame or part blame. Probably to make him feel better, who knows.
I am far from perfect but I sure was not the person who caused our relationship to end up where it did. Our relationship could have never survived while he was drinking or him not seeking help. Drinking isn't the only problem with him, he needs to seek other help, the root of the problem in his past life.
I understand how you feel, and I think anger is ok, you need to let it out somehow. The problem would be if you let it take over and let it last long. It only hurts you more.
Going to Al Anon helps me quite a bit, somehow it does relieve that frustration out of me. Also helps me be stronger.
Towards the end, he kept pushing me and pushing me to where I found myself shouting back at him. I hated myself for doing that. I was angry at him for pushing me to that position.
He finally went into recovery after I could no longer tolerate his behavior and walked away.
After some space between us, he did start trying to make amends. He told me he was to blame for the breakdown of our relationship. We spoke of the things that he did and how sorry he was.
I really thought he was getting somewhere..I started to forgive him.
But then, every so often he would say, there is blame on both sides for a breakdown of a relationship.
I caught him saying that recently and it brings back the frustration I was getting over.
Inside my emotions were brewing up again. The memories of the pain and hurt he caused me during those 3 years. How can he say there was blame on both sides? How can he say I did wrong too? He is going backwards again trying to shift blame or part blame. Probably to make him feel better, who knows.
I am far from perfect but I sure was not the person who caused our relationship to end up where it did. Our relationship could have never survived while he was drinking or him not seeking help. Drinking isn't the only problem with him, he needs to seek other help, the root of the problem in his past life.
I understand how you feel, and I think anger is ok, you need to let it out somehow. The problem would be if you let it take over and let it last long. It only hurts you more.
Going to Al Anon helps me quite a bit, somehow it does relieve that frustration out of me. Also helps me be stronger.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: America
Posts: 4,136
I agree with Thump that anger is natural and totally understand how a person would feel angry in your situation. The anger needs to be "let out" and resolved and that may not happen overnight so to speak, but can be a process. Often the first step is to just be able to ARTICULATE how you are feeling and WHY you are feeling that way. Us codies tend to stuff our feelings at a detriment to our own selves eventually, but it can also be a detriment to the person who needs to get help for their addictions and problems. If they know how you really feel about something, but don't like it, oh well. Pretending we are not really angry when we really ARE angry is just not healthy...it can brew inside of us and then blow up in a very unhealthy way. Some people are crock pots and some are pressure cookers. Anger can also be a trigger for people who turn to substances to "manage" their feelings. I'll try not to ramble, but my thoughts on this are numerous. Good for you for standing up for yourself. Yes, he will try to blame shift or at least get you to share the blame and that's because he doesn't want to fully and honestly look at himself and accept his wrong behavior. He's trying to dodge...
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
im actually rather glad i never heard of alcoholism as a disease until i got sober.
if i woulda heard that when i was drinkin....what a great excuse!!!
which id hope no one would fall for.
i was a selfish,selfcentered, egomaniac who treated people like crap because i was a practicing alcoholic that wanted hostages, not relationships.
if i woulda heard that when i was drinkin....what a great excuse!!!
which id hope no one would fall for.
i was a selfish,selfcentered, egomaniac who treated people like crap because i was a practicing alcoholic that wanted hostages, not relationships.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
^ awesome words. Thanks for sharing. Your insight into yourself is amazing.
My ex wanted hostages as well-not any type of relationships with me or our kids. Just things that were there and better not ever leave or speak the truth. Hostages is a great word-pretty darn accurate.
Your words on this board are so helpful-just wanted to let you know that.
My ex wanted hostages as well-not any type of relationships with me or our kids. Just things that were there and better not ever leave or speak the truth. Hostages is a great word-pretty darn accurate.
Your words on this board are so helpful-just wanted to let you know that.
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