bluelily

So I just received a phone call from Abf whom I haven´t seen in person in about a month. In february he became furious with me when I brought up his drinking (some weeks after he had drank almost one whole bottle of rum on his own when we were visiting my friends and after he peed on himself when we were alone, some days after that). I felt huge rejection at the idea of seeing him so I had been avoiding him, and also endorsing boundaries like not "lending" him money anymore.

Anyway, today I received this very strange call. First, he was expectant and as I didn´t "bite" he said something like Well, you don´t seem to have anything to say to me. I said No, you´re the one who called me, what did you want to tell me?

After some vague chitchat about some dinner dates with his family and friends (and no mention of me being invited) he said that in this last month it had been obvious that I didn´t like him, although he hadn´t changed at all, and that I was probably imagining all sorts of things because I saw some film (I did send him a link with Leaving Las Vegas after he became offensive once - no I´m no saint obviously!).

I told him I wasn´t imagining things at all, he had become more and more aggresive towards me and very disrespectful - with for example his drunk show when we were with my friends. That he´d better look for someone else if he was looking for a doormat. I was met with Yeah, yeah, yeah, and interrupted me the whole time. I even told him For once let someone else finish their sentences! But it was no use, it was like talking to a wall, and and angry one, at that.
I was quite calm actually, and was able to stop him when he became offensive, telling me I was just a hysterical old lady (he had implied menopausal some days before). But it infuriates me that he didn´t let me express myself!
In the end he said Well, do we need to keep this conversation going? It´s a repetition of the same.
So I just said no, and bye.

I should be relieved, I thought he wasn´t getting the message that I had been putting up distance, but I´m mostly angry.

When we hung up my first thought was that it wasn´t my doing, he panicked when I brought up the drinking problem. Still, it´s very hard to realize I didn´t have a chance of talking things out with him and reaching an agreement, I know all of you have warned me about alcohol being his prime love and concern, but it still hurts. Like everything good that once existed between us wasn´t more than an illusion. I really hope my emotions will calm down soon, I´m feeling like a rollercoaster right now.

redatlanta

Were you hoping to reconcile? Trying to figure out what you mean "talking things our with him and reaching an agreement".

Hawkeye13

Be angry--if someone called me an hysterical old woman and implied
my menopause was somehow linked to my ability to reason,
I'd be mad too.

There is nothing to "talk out" that I can see.
He wants to drink and treat you any way he pleases,
including taking resources in the form of "no payback loans" from your daughter so he can buy booze.

He's just so darn unhappy that you are unwilling to go along with this.
Poor baby. . . no doubt he'll wet himself over it on his next bender.
Who needs it--block his number and leave the door open
for a proper man who will be a true equal and meet your needs.

You deserve no less bluelily

bluelily

Redatlanta, no I didn´t want to reconcile, I just wanted to state for the record, so to speak, that alcoholism was the reason things went sour between us. And have him acknowledge that drinking himself to stupidity on the one occasion we met with my friends, peeing over himself in my presence, picking bizarre fights with me, waking me in the middle of the night to demand oral s** or just to be a bore, and then ask for money is just plain disrespectful.
He did tell me once he was sorry for his behaviour, this was in december, but then it just got worse.

Hawkeye, yes I will block his number, though I´m certain I´m no longer of use to him now! The menopausal "argument" is infuriating, isn´t it, I also got the Oh are you on your period? a few times.

bluelily

Well, I received two more phone calls right after posting this (before blocking him) to "round things up". He told me he hadn´t changed in all these years, that I had known him for ever and so should`ve known what he was like. I asked what his point was but didn´t get much of an explanation, apparently he thought I was being unfair because I had somehow changed the rules by not accepting his treatment of me anymore. He wanted me to change my view of him. So I asked him if this had anything to do with his family, if he was concerned I would contact them to organize an intervention or something like that. Because really, what does it matter if I´m left thinking he is an a**? He probably thinks badly of me too. He said no, of course not.

Some minutes later he rang again to ask me to part as friends, he didn´t want to end things like that. He had embarked on this relationship in a civilized manner, sending me flowers (that´s always such a big deal, that he sent me flowers!), and didn´t want to end it with a fight. I said we could never be friends because he didn´t respect me as a human being and if he was calling because he feared I would contact his family, I wouldn´t and to please leave me alone.

Sorry for getting into all these details, I´m still very upset. The thing is, after these conversations I began feeling guilty again. He had obviously been surprised by my reluctance to see him and then my anger at what I feel was abuse. So I guess I felt that he had had no intention to behave like that with me. And that is what made me somehow forgive the pain he has been inflicting on me.
It was like Oh, he really didn´t know what he was doing. Maybe things aren´t so bad after all. Maybe he does really care about me and I´m being too difficult.

I suppose this is some codependent trait? Taking sides with the other person, even when he has been abusive and disrespectful with me? I began to imagine what it would be like to get together with him again and how I should go along to do that. I felt a slight panic at the end of this relationship.
Anyway, after sitting a while with these feelings I calmed down a bit and felt that this wasn´t the end of the world, even if it was the end of a relationship. But I don´t know how to take it from here.

I was wondering if some of you have felt like this? And what to do about it? Also, why did he need to change the interpretation of things between us, make me tell him I was the one who had changed or something like that? Why would that matter and will I receive more of these requests? If I will begin feeling sorry for him again I don´t know how I will protect myself, I´d rather be prepared.

Refiner

I think you've finally got to a place of respecting YOURSELF. Sounds like somebody needed to. Good on you. He sounds like a real D-bag.

Dodge31

My ex use to make me rage over the phone. I spent a few years trying to reason and get him to see my point of view to the point it sent me as crazy as him. You cant reason with someone that is insane only brings heatache.

Dodge31

Heartache*

Hawkeye13

If he doesn't get you to change your "interpretation"
then the problem might actually be his alcoholism and disrespectful treatment.

Addicts don't like to accept their addiction is the issue, or that they might
have things they need to work on and not just keep drinking.
So much easier to blame others.
Isn't that always what he's done?
It's everyone else's fault, right?

Don't try to be logical, or feel guilty, or even discuss
this with him again.
Just block the number and start to heal.
There is no reasoning logically with an addict,
and your desire to "set the record straight" that
the issue has been drinking cannot, and will not be heard by him
at least until he admits he has a problem with booze,
which may be never.

Kata

Bluelily, We must really be dating the same man. I swear, they both follow the exact same schedule...

I completely understand how you feel... I'm feeling exactly the same right now.

bluelily

Thank you, I guess that explains it though it´s hard to fathom how sick and twisted this all is. I find myself trying to explain myself to him in my mind, trying to be as clear and logical as possible, but I see this is useless. Very frustrating.

dandylion

bluelily....I think that most of all have done what you describe...in our own mind, we review scenarios where our logic can finally get them to see the "light"......
....lol...we feel like our logic is our best tool in getting them to be on our same page.....

When my adult son was drinking....I remember the futile attempts of trying to convince him that attending AA meetings would be a good thing for him.....
lol.....one day, I said t him..."AA is for quitters".....he seemed to agree, as he was leaving out the door........then, he stopped and t urned back......saying: "What do you mean by that?.....did you say quitters or losers??........

Flloyd P. Garrett explains how the alcoholic mind works, in this regard....in his article: "The Addict's dilemma"....(do google search).....

You see alcohol as the p roblem....the alcoholc sees alcohol as the solution....The alcoholic "needs" their friend...alcohol...to deal with life's discomforts.....

dandylion

FireSprite

It has to be that way, IMO, because Denial doesn't allow you to Accept ending a relationship over alcohol if you are an active alcoholic. That would negate your denial, then where would you be?

It's Blameshifting & it lets him off the hook without having to dig any deeper into this situation.


Yes, it's difficult to accept this too. I kept banging my head against the Logic issue but it never got me anywhere. I finally accepted it when I heard it from RAH himself, once sober. He told me that he literally did not even try to think things through - he honestly tried to deflect, defend & turn the tables on me to distract me if I was hitting too close to home. ANYTHING to avoid accountability & truth - it did not matter one bit. He eventually started viewing every interaction as something to "win" - he wasn't even trying to have a 2-way, interactive discussion. Ever. It made me laugh (eventually) at the amount of time I had tried to force it instead of dropping the rope & turning my attention to something more productive.


I'm really sorry that you are hurting blue, hopefully you feel better this morning. I think though, that it's been over for you for a few weeks now & this is just a "technicality"?

bluelily

Dandylion, it must be heartwrenching to have to go through all this with a son, I´m so sorry, sending you hugs! And thanks for the article, that helps.

Firesprite, thank you for your comment, it really helps to see things from their (sick) point of view.

The thing that bothers me is that I was so caught up in the illusion. He had told me many times he would never ever break up with me, but had no problem putting an end to things when he realized I wasn`t available for "loans" and expressed concern at his drinking. His words don´t amount to much now. Also, I felt our sex life was quite passionate (though there wasn´t much kissing going on, that was weird) and it bothers me because I really believed we had something strong and valuable between us. I just had to point out the obvious and it all fell apart, how´s that for a strong bond?

I was telling my mom it confused me that he had been so abusive and at the same time really seemed to have an emotional connection with me. I mean, why would you bully someone you care about? But then she said he was able to be abusive precisely because we had an emotional connection, if it weren´t so, I would never have caught on. I would just´ve said Who does this moron think he is and forget all about it.
So that scares me, I always assume others will be decent and considerate all the time and could easily fall into the hands of another abuser! They really put up a very different show in the beginning.

bluelily

Yes, I think I had been closing myself off for a long time, every time he was abusive it was like a small step towards the end and I would tell myself Well things won´t last much more now. I feel more calm today and happy to be able to have a quiet time at home for a change. The strange thing is that right after he began increasing his alcohol intake and the madness intensified, I somehow became more attached to him. It was like I knew in my mind that things were going wrong and I had to take some distance, but emotionally I only wanted to be with him, even if it hurt. It was so strange I even remember wondering why we fall in love with someone, and then concluded that it is a mystery and we can never know.
Right after that I ran away, it feels like.

Now I´m remembering how he would drink even while half-asleep with me lying in his arms, that is so so insane.

Hawkeye13

It's addiction bluelily. . .
He's getting towards late-stage alcoholism at this point
from what you've posted, so he pretty much has to keep
a certain level of alcohol in his blood or he'll go into withdrawals.
Sad but true.

But still in his mind "he doesn't have a problem".
It hurts I know, but it hurts a lot less than staying with him would.

Bekindalways

So glad to hear you have blocked him Bluelily. If you have any social media connections with him, it's a good idea to get rid of those.

I can understand wanting to have conversational closure at the end of a relationship but this is unlikely to occur with an addict. They just don't work that way.

Wring all the wisdom you can from the situation; I just wish wisdom was easier to acquire but most of us learn the hard way with addicts.

amy55

Hi, don't think I really met you before on this forum. Nice to know you. Regarding the above, please stop trying to figure out a way to make sense out of non sense. It creates those never ending circular arguments. He will never understand what you are saying, quite simply because, well, he just doesn't want to. Me, I've BTDT.

That BS that he is trying to sell you about this is who he is, and this is who he always was, and you already knew that....... Well, BS on that also. My ex used to sing that Frank Sinatra song to me all the time. "I gotta be me, I gotta be me......." I used to tell him, then OK, be you, but be you somewhere else and GTFO of the house.

I'm really glad that you are here and that you are reading around this forum. I know for a long time when I was "in", I thought I was crazy.

You're going to be OK.

(((((hugs)))))
amy

Berrybean

Woah. Sounds like you had a really lucky escape from that relationship. How nice of him to take the time to get in touch and remind you of that fact.

Just don't waste too much time trying to find sense or sanity or reason in an alcoholic denial rant. There is none there. Maybe he speaks some truth when he says he never changed. Alcoholics are great at putting on a short term show of affection, devotion and romance to get what they want. The big trouble is that they buy their own bull and can't even see that is what they're doing / have done.

This is coming from the perspective of an alcoholic (in recovery) by the way.

You deserve so much more than he is capable of giving. Once you get past this angry you will be able to leave him to his brattish ways and go back to enjoying your life without him.

bluelily

Amy, thank you for the welcome! This forum has really been a Godsend, I would be completely clueless without it, thinking I was the one who was crazy.

Beccybean, I really appreciate the RA point of view. It´s so easy to become confused and question myself, even now. Last night I was feeling nostalgic and wondered if I should let him know that I did care for him, and again explain why I couldn´t deal with the relationship anymore and bla bla. But then I found some texts from him from not so long ago, telling me Sweetie don´t be late and remember to send me the $$. And then some more requests for $$.
So with that, all sentimentality ended.
The last few months he was suggesting more and more often that I bring him alcohol, which I had always refused on principle. So I can see how that would eventually have become a real issue. When he had to work all day on his birthday and we wouldn´t see each other I offered to leave him his present at his place, and he asked if it was wine. I said no and then he said Oh never mind then, you can give it to me later.
I never got to give it to him, it was a very nice double music CD, I think I´ll just keep it for myself.