confused0507

Just got off the phone with AW and her counselor. Feeling more confused in this whole process.

AW talked about how in this program, she has learned more in the two weeks she has been there than she learned in the whole month of rehab the first time. The counselor piped in with "You don't get married to get divorced". Counselor also said that she has watched AW grow in the two weeks she has been in rehab. Wants me to come to do an in person visit, which I said I wasn't comfortable with right now. AW said she was very sorry, and could apologize a thousand times and knows that it wouldn't change anything. She doesn't want a separation or divorce and having another woman raising her children, and that she didn't think I would want another man raising our children. AW appreciated everything I was doing with the kids at home and taking care of the house.

I brought up that she hasn't been here to see our son crying that he misses his mom, or her parents and her grandma crying when I dropped off the kids for spring break or them and my kids crying when I picked them up yesterday. I also brought up that if this were to work, there would be an extended period of time that trust was an issue, and even though she has had issue with my accusatory accusations in the past after her first initial relapses, she is ok with it now and understands there will be no trust for a long time....

I told her that I wasn't sure I wanted to invest that time of un-trust for the kids, myself, or her. I told her that I wasn't comfortable right now with her wanting to end her life two weeks ago for the kids or myself, and she said she knew that, but she was far away from that place now.

Just don't know where to go from here. I know it's going to be a long battle to make it work, but my biggest fear, which I brought up with them on the phone, is that she relapses, and what a waste of time (maybe not the right words to say). They did there best to assure me that she didn't work the program the last time, and this is a better program than the last one she went through. Counselor advised me to go to al-anon, which I told them I had gone twice, to which my wife thanked me and the counselor said "good for you!"

I brought the fact up of after her second relapse the first time she made the choice to be sober and then after a little over a year turned to medications to "escape" reality and relapsed but to medications and then most recently drinking, to which the counselor said, "That is what addicts do, but if she works the program......", to which I replied, this is why I don't have the trust. I am just very lost at the moment. On one hand, married for 13 years on Monday and have two kiddos, but on the other, I have no faith or trust right now, but fear for the kids either way.

Praying

Wow--seems like a lot of marriage pressure right now, from the counselor too.

IF she works the program. True. IF.

That's why I believe separation during the first year or so is so healthy. My X (we lived together, not married) was hyper focused on not losing me--and I think wouldn't have immersed like he needed to in the program if I hadn't required space. It is so gosh darned INTENSE the energy they need to spend on it.

She's shown nothing to date to prove she will do this long term. Making no permanent decisions, but allowing for space at this time, is not only okay, it is HEALTHY. For both of you to focus on the real stuff and not your enmeshment.

I'm not saying you need to separate- many don't during this time. But I'm saying that if you WANT to, it's perfectly normal and can help both of you see clearly. And your kids are going to be messed up either way (sorry for that- I mean "have issues to sort through"). Pretending it's better if you're together isn't helping them--they need heathy happy balanced parents, whatever that looks like. A separation followed by a true reunion could be the most powerful thing for them to see as they learn how healthy adult relationships work...so don't allow the pressure of "the kids" to lead your action. I did with my XAH (different relationship than the one above), and I wish I'd left him 10 years earlier.

There's no wrong answer. Follow your gut, and don't be afraid to change answers as you go. No choice is permanent. Make the choice for today, and reassess tomorrow.

I'm still irked at what appears to be pressure from the counselor. Sure, this time is different. Why again? And different while in rehab is WAY different than at home in real life months down the road...you need to see some sustainability before anyone can ask you to believe. And that's just with the drinking part of things...

confused0507

Thanks for the reply Praying. My only fear of separation is that I would find out I like it more than the "walking on eggshells" that I know will come with staying together to try and work through it. Her track record is bad, which will take a long time to repair the trust, and I don't know if I have the energy to, when she isn't acting right, go through the accusatory phase again. It boggles my mind that she is ok with the fact there would be the accusations because of the lack if trust, when before, it was a big deal that I couldn't "let it go". And why do I think she can work the program now, when she couldn't before, and relapsed to medications after only a little over a year of sobriety after her initial two alcoholic relapses?

totfit

Fear and faith aside, you may have to closely examine whether or not too much damage has already been done and you have no desire to stay married. I think that mere fact is what I would use to decide whether I wanted to continue and see how things go. There is most certainly going to be a question mark either way in whether or not she stays sober. Studies have shown that the outcomes are similar no matter what a person does to stay sober, so a lot of it depends on the individual and their fully internalizing the issue and wanting to change. I wish you the best, it is a tough decision.

Ariesagain

Wow. That's...surprising...that any decent addiction counselor would be essentially trivializing the past based on a whopping two weeks in rehab.

Honestly? That's pretty unrealistic and inappropriate. Your concerns are absolutely valid.

Is this a religion-centric rehab or is the counselor extremely religious? If she's of the divorce = burning in hell mindset, maybe this would explain it?

Don't do one single thing you're not comfortable with. Your first priority is to protect your children and you from further trauma.

Refiner

Well, she's certainly SAYING all the right things. Now it's up to her to DO them. And recovery is a two way street and that phone call sure seemed one-sided. If I were you, I would write down all the things YOU require of HER in order to gain trust back into the marriage. Living separately with her committed to her program and remaining sober is one thing. What about her input and routine care with the kids and household during the one year apart? Things like that. Sounds too easy that she slides right back in to the same ole same ole with many held resentments (understood!) by you. She needs to earn her way back and that's not going to happen over a phone call and a visit with her saying sorry and a counselor playing pitchman for his rehab and chastising you for questioning the trust factor in YOUR marriage.

wanttobehealthy

I never had especially good experiences with the counselors in the rehabs xAH went to. Their laser like focus was on xAH and his "growth" (which was akin to scamming them like everyone else).

Like you I felt like "ummmm great that he can claim all this change and verbalize promises but he's not there to see the impact of this on the kids and I need time to think before I agree whole heartedly to let him back".

I share this not to slam her counselor who I do not know but to share that my experience was that the counselors for the addict (many of whom openly share their own addiction experiences) always (to me) seemed to be pressuring me to give xAH endless chances and did not respect or grasp that my priorities were different than his.

Your wife's being in rehab and getting sober should be entirely for her and your marriage status not a part of the counselor's world at all..

Just my two cents.

confused0507

The counselor "understood" the mistrust I have and even said nobody should have to go through what I have, but the comments "we don't get married to get divorced" and "this is what addicts do" kind of rubbed me the wrong way. In a way it did sound like she, the counselor, thought sticking it out would be best, but did ultimately in the end say that I have to work on me whether that means separation or divorce. It's almost a repeat of 2011, her first rehab, only this time, "it's a better program". AW and counselor both said she had just got to the point of trusting herself.

AW brought up the fact that she staying overtaking the medications and didn't realize what was happening until it was too late, to which I replied that almost everytime she came off the high and back to the land of living, we discussed it and she agreed that she couldn't do that, but went right neck to the choice of doing it, knowing what she was doing, which in my opinion, makes it worse! Putting medications and/or alcohol before the kids and the family is selfish, and expecting me to go through a third round of this is getting to be BS. She couldn't tell me if she would relapse anymore than she could tell me the precise distance from the earth to the Sun.

Typing this I have went to confused to angry, because besides the year of sobriety since 2009, and honestly there were signs well before this, she had chosen alcohol/medications over family and her kids, and the real sad thing is, the kids may have a clue add to there is a problem, but they don't know the root cause! That is sad....very very sad.

I can't let her control my emotions anymore. For most of the call she didn't cry, until the end, which sort of speaks volumes to me looking back. I could be reading that wrong though.

Maybe some time apart will give us both the answers we are looking for........

firebolt

Please consider why you would be fearful of something good for your life. We can be just as irrational as they can be. You liking having your own space and peaceful place does not have to mean the end of your marriage IF you both stay on the path of recovery. I think many people find their recovery is easier without living in the same space - and therefore easier to transition back to cohabitation once you are both more healed. Believe it or not, you are both probably triggers to eachother - and working through those issues are much easier in a peaceful place.

Good luck to you - and GOOD JOB vocalizing where your head is.

AnvilheadII

hmmmm

Counselor also said that she has watched AW grow in the two weeks she has been in rehab

and this is a better program than the last one she went through


sure sounds like an ad campaign for the treatment center to me. NOBODY gets all better in TWO WEEKS. nobody GROWS that much. sounds like a real sales job. but then i'm old and jaded.

good for you for speaking YOUR truth, and not getting pushed around.

confused0507

good for you for speaking YOUR truth, and not getting pushed around.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Anvil!

Ariesagain

I was thinking about your post...maybe it's time for your children to know what the root cause really is?

Maybe they're really young, but it's amazing how even very young children can sense that something is very wrong...and in the absence of real information, they almost always blame themselves. Are they in therapy?

If not, I would really consider it and hopefully find a family therapist who can help them understand what's going on and process it constructively?

Hawkeye13

I say trust your gut.
Perhaps she needs 6 months in sober living to show you she is serious in terms of actions towards recovery.
This would have the added benefit of letting her focus on recovery and not family,
and your kids (and you) won't have to deal with all the emotional upheavals of someone in early recovery--
which can be really hard for everyone, including the former addict.

You have zero obligation to let her back into your life right now if you don't want to.
I don't like the high-pressure tactics of the counselor either.
Sounds like they want you to comply even if it isn't right for you right now.
Given all you've been through, protect yourself here.

I think she's talking big and promising a whole lot she can't necessarily deliver.
I say that as a former alcoholic, and as a child of alcoholic.
My mother also made many big promises when she got out of rehab and was
drinking within a few months of her release, and it got worse than ever.

So perhaps I'm a little jaded and untrusting--what's best for the kids
should be plan of action, don't you think?

confused0507

I have thought about telling them, but not sure how to, and also if I should wait into AW is back.

confused0507

This is where my guilt kicks in about separation or leaving all together. It amazes me how focused and mostly sure I was before she left, but after almost three weeks of being gone, and two of those in rehab, I've become wishy washy at best.

Today though set a tone for me, as I know the focus is getting her better, I felt the "hard sale" from both of them. And what makes this any different than the last time?

atalose

Have you given any thought to you and your children going for counseling to help all of you with?

Children often blame themselves, a counselor could walk them through that whole process and help them deal with there mothers alcoholism.

Hawkeye13

Frankly, it isn't any different until she makes it so by living it instead of talking about it.

I had to change so much about myself and how I related to others and the world to let go of my addiction.
It isn't some magical fix but really really hard work.

Only you can choose what's best, but sounds like the FOG has descended on you a bit
(Fear, Obligation, Guilt)

That's nothing to decide you and your children's future on--
Have you been to an addiction therapist to discuss options so far?
Someone who knows the score in terms of what life will be like for her in recovery,
and for you learning to step back and rebuild your own life, etc.?
Not a "regular" therapist, but one who knows about addicts.
The regular ones often give very poor advice as they don't get it.


That might be really helpful for you right now--she's getting help, why not you too?
Alanon is a great start, but maybe some one-on-one with a professional would help you figure this out.

confused0507

I have but I don't know whether to wait until she gets back or do it beforehand...

Hawkeye13

I also agree about the children's therapist idea as well.
I knew so much about my mom and her addiction from a very young age.
Adults don't realize this but it's true. I did blame myself.
If I had been a "better daughter" etc. she wouldn't need to drink, etc.

dandylion

confused....for my two cents....I don't see any advantage of "waiting"....
I can bet the milk money that your kids know more than you think they do....parents almost always underestimate how much kids observe and know.....

dandylion