insomnia because I said no
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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insomnia because I said no
So I had an unexpected insight this week, which probably explains a lot.
On monday my supposedly-still-Abf (but who I havenīt seen in a month) called me to tell me he had been hired at a job where he had been filling in for someone else for the last couple of weeks. He said "so you canīt bully me anymore about not having a job" - this because I had asked him once what would happen after those two weeks (a normal expression of interest, as I see it).
I was genuinely happy for him, and even thought that perhaps things werenīt going so bad after all, perhaps everything would turn out fine... And then he continued "yeah I know I owe you some money but I think you should lend me some more". Luckily he doesnīt owe me much, about US$50, but Iīm very organized with my money because Iīm a single mom and we arenīt swimming in $$$.
But anyway, I did not want to lend him more, and why is he asking me if he just got a job?
So I told him no, he insisted, I lied and told him I didnīt have any to spare this month (though I didnīt have to give any explanation, I felt pressured into it), and then he suggested I ask for a loan!
It was so outrageous I was angry for the rest of the day, and I also felt used, like he was really only calling me because he wanted something from me. At least, I had been able to stand my ground and say no.
But then the next day I began to feel guilty, like I had been disloyal, and shouldnīt I have been there for him and wasnīt I a terrible b*tch because I was thinking I didnīt want anything to do with him anymore? I was so upset I couldnīt sleep at night.
Today I figured I felt so bad because I have trouble saying no, simply because Iīm afraid of conflict. Itīs so much easier to give in and avoid tensions. So yeah, this has been a real eye-opener. The thing is, I have no problem telling my kids no, but I canīt seem to do this with men Iīm involved with.
I remembered that I was very reluctant to get involved with guys when I was a teenager, because I felt they would stomp all over me and I wouldnīt be able to say so if there was anything I didnīt like.
So whenever I noticed someone interested in me, I would avoid them.
Anyway, not sure if someone else relates but it was good to get to know me a little more. Now I have to find out how I can learn to empower myself.
On monday my supposedly-still-Abf (but who I havenīt seen in a month) called me to tell me he had been hired at a job where he had been filling in for someone else for the last couple of weeks. He said "so you canīt bully me anymore about not having a job" - this because I had asked him once what would happen after those two weeks (a normal expression of interest, as I see it).
I was genuinely happy for him, and even thought that perhaps things werenīt going so bad after all, perhaps everything would turn out fine... And then he continued "yeah I know I owe you some money but I think you should lend me some more". Luckily he doesnīt owe me much, about US$50, but Iīm very organized with my money because Iīm a single mom and we arenīt swimming in $$$.
But anyway, I did not want to lend him more, and why is he asking me if he just got a job?
So I told him no, he insisted, I lied and told him I didnīt have any to spare this month (though I didnīt have to give any explanation, I felt pressured into it), and then he suggested I ask for a loan!
It was so outrageous I was angry for the rest of the day, and I also felt used, like he was really only calling me because he wanted something from me. At least, I had been able to stand my ground and say no.
But then the next day I began to feel guilty, like I had been disloyal, and shouldnīt I have been there for him and wasnīt I a terrible b*tch because I was thinking I didnīt want anything to do with him anymore? I was so upset I couldnīt sleep at night.
Today I figured I felt so bad because I have trouble saying no, simply because Iīm afraid of conflict. Itīs so much easier to give in and avoid tensions. So yeah, this has been a real eye-opener. The thing is, I have no problem telling my kids no, but I canīt seem to do this with men Iīm involved with.
I remembered that I was very reluctant to get involved with guys when I was a teenager, because I felt they would stomp all over me and I wouldnīt be able to say so if there was anything I didnīt like.
So whenever I noticed someone interested in me, I would avoid them.
Anyway, not sure if someone else relates but it was good to get to know me a little more. Now I have to find out how I can learn to empower myself.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by bluelily 
But anyway, I did not want to lend him more, and why is he asking me if he just got a job?
So I told him no, he insisted, I lied and told him I didnīt have any to spare this month (though I didnīt have to give any explanation, I felt pressured into it), and then he suggested I ask for a loan!
So I told him no, he insisted, I lied and told him I didnīt have any to spare this month (though I didnīt have to give any explanation, I felt pressured into it), and then he suggested I ask for a loan!
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Bluelily, I think this is an important realization for you. Don't know if you're familiar w/the "Three A's" of Alanon--Awareness, Acceptance, Action.
Sounds like you've gotten the awareness part, and that's a big deal. Also sounds like you've got the acceptance part, looking back and seeing how you have a history of trouble w/saying no as well as seeing the specific areas where it's the biggest problem.
So it seems like yes, you are ready to go into action as far as finding a solution to the problem! I think you're doing great, making progress and learning. Hang in, bluelily.
Sounds like you've gotten the awareness part, and that's a big deal. Also sounds like you've got the acceptance part, looking back and seeing how you have a history of trouble w/saying no as well as seeing the specific areas where it's the biggest problem.
So it seems like yes, you are ready to go into action as far as finding a solution to the problem! I think you're doing great, making progress and learning. Hang in, bluelily.
Magsie
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 26,683
Hi bluelily good on you for sticking to your guns!
I can relate to how you feel, I was like that and tended to go against my will to make another happy. Then feel wretched if I don't!
It's good to know our 'weaknesses' as you say, we can empower ourselves ready for anything thrown at us!
I can relate to how you feel, I was like that and tended to go against my will to make another happy. Then feel wretched if I don't!
It's good to know our 'weaknesses' as you say, we can empower ourselves ready for anything thrown at us!
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,004
Originally Posted by Mags1
Hi bluelily good on you for sticking to your guns!
I can relate to how you feel, I was like that and tended to go against my will to make another happy. Then feel wretched if I don't!
It's good to know our 'weaknesses' as you say, we can empower ourselves ready for anything thrown at us!
I can relate to how you feel, I was like that and tended to go against my will to make another happy. Then feel wretched if I don't!
It's good to know our 'weaknesses' as you say, we can empower ourselves ready for anything thrown at us!
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
I understand the guilty feeling. It's very strange, because when you write out the situation or explain it to someone else, it doesn't seem that there should be anything about which to feel guilty. Nothing at all...and yet.
I wish I had a good explanation as to why, but I do know that when I find myself in a similar situation, it helps to write it out or explain to a good friend as sort of a 'guilt reality check'.
If this helps, I think he was using you. At least that is how it seems from here. And if it were me, I would be proud of myself for sticking to what I felt was the right thing to do, regardless of his reaction.
I hope you were able to get some rest last night!
I wish I had a good explanation as to why, but I do know that when I find myself in a similar situation, it helps to write it out or explain to a good friend as sort of a 'guilt reality check'.
Originally Posted by bluelily
It was so outrageous I was angry for the rest of the day, and I also felt used, like he was really only calling me because he wanted something from me. At least, I had been able to stand my ground and say no.
I hope you were able to get some rest last night!
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Bluely I think your decision shows you have healthy self-esteem. The guilt back-wash is natural, especially among women, but what counts is you held firm.
Suggesting you get a loan for him! What universe is he living in?
Suggesting you get a loan for him! What universe is he living in?
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 235
Bluelily!
I so understand the difficulty of saying no! But you did it!! You should be proud of yourself!
And it's also very good that you're getting to know yourself. It's a big step. It believe that it's by getting oursleves that we can finally begin to change ourselves. I would suggest you start journaling to keep track of your feelings and the insights you get about the roots of your difficulties (for lack of a better term). Since mid-January, I've started writing in my Five-Minute journal. It's basically a gratitude journal. Every morning, you write 3 things your grateful for. It can be as simple as I'm grateful for the comfortable bed I slept in. Then, you write 3 things that would make your day great. The trick is to pick 3 things you have control over, like smiling more, going for a walk, etc. Or it could be saying no to 1 thing you really don't want to do. Then , at night, before going to bed, you write 3 amazing things that happened dduring the day. Again, it can be 3 simple things. Then, you write what you could have done to make your day better. It gives you the opportunity to reflect on something you wish you had done better, and write what you could've done differently. So the next time your faced with a similiar situation, you'll already know how to reacting in a way that works for you.
As for empowering yourself, I can tell you what I've been doing in the past 1 1/2 years. You see, I've always been afraid of many things: afraid of what people thought of me, afraid I'd be judged, afraid I wasn't strong enough, brave enough, good enough, intelligent enough, afraid of heights! So, step by step, I started to do the things I was afraid of.
I was afraid of driving again. So when I finalized my separation with my ex, I rented a car and drove to Quebec City to pick up my last few things and finalize the sell of the condo. It was the midlle of the winter and I had to drive back to Montreal on 3 hours of sleep, in a snow storm. It took me a loooonnng time, but I made it alive and without a scratch. Now, everytime I need to or want to, I rent a car and drive on my own. I've come to love it.
I was afraid of taking dance classes, as I new was a very poor dancer. It took me all my courage to go to that first class. But you know what, now I love it and have made new friends.
I was afraid of height so, for my birthday, I went skydiving. I good've gone with the 7000 feet jump wothout a free fall, or the usual 13 000 feet with a short freefall, but no, I went for the 18000 jump with oxygen supply on the plan and long freefall. And I love it!
I thought I didn't have a typical professionnal path as a translator and didn't have much to offer to my professionnal community. But when my friend was sick and couldn't participate at a round table on translation and terminology at our old school, she pushed me to go in her place. I was shaking with fear, but I went anyway. And even though my path isn't typical, I realized that I had valuable expertise to contribute.
All of this isn't really directly related to relationships, but , facing my fears has empowered me. I now know that I am a strong, capable woman, and that I can do the things I want or need to do, even if it scared the hell out of me.
I haven't reach the end of my path to empowerment, and I might be on it until my dying breath, but I know that with a few kicks (sometimes more than a few) I can do whatever the f$&$ I want!
I hope this helps you a bit,
Hugs
I so understand the difficulty of saying no! But you did it!! You should be proud of yourself!
And it's also very good that you're getting to know yourself. It's a big step. It believe that it's by getting oursleves that we can finally begin to change ourselves. I would suggest you start journaling to keep track of your feelings and the insights you get about the roots of your difficulties (for lack of a better term). Since mid-January, I've started writing in my Five-Minute journal. It's basically a gratitude journal. Every morning, you write 3 things your grateful for. It can be as simple as I'm grateful for the comfortable bed I slept in. Then, you write 3 things that would make your day great. The trick is to pick 3 things you have control over, like smiling more, going for a walk, etc. Or it could be saying no to 1 thing you really don't want to do. Then , at night, before going to bed, you write 3 amazing things that happened dduring the day. Again, it can be 3 simple things. Then, you write what you could have done to make your day better. It gives you the opportunity to reflect on something you wish you had done better, and write what you could've done differently. So the next time your faced with a similiar situation, you'll already know how to reacting in a way that works for you.
As for empowering yourself, I can tell you what I've been doing in the past 1 1/2 years. You see, I've always been afraid of many things: afraid of what people thought of me, afraid I'd be judged, afraid I wasn't strong enough, brave enough, good enough, intelligent enough, afraid of heights! So, step by step, I started to do the things I was afraid of.
I was afraid of driving again. So when I finalized my separation with my ex, I rented a car and drove to Quebec City to pick up my last few things and finalize the sell of the condo. It was the midlle of the winter and I had to drive back to Montreal on 3 hours of sleep, in a snow storm. It took me a loooonnng time, but I made it alive and without a scratch. Now, everytime I need to or want to, I rent a car and drive on my own. I've come to love it.
I was afraid of taking dance classes, as I new was a very poor dancer. It took me all my courage to go to that first class. But you know what, now I love it and have made new friends.
I was afraid of height so, for my birthday, I went skydiving. I good've gone with the 7000 feet jump wothout a free fall, or the usual 13 000 feet with a short freefall, but no, I went for the 18000 jump with oxygen supply on the plan and long freefall. And I love it!
I thought I didn't have a typical professionnal path as a translator and didn't have much to offer to my professionnal community. But when my friend was sick and couldn't participate at a round table on translation and terminology at our old school, she pushed me to go in her place. I was shaking with fear, but I went anyway. And even though my path isn't typical, I realized that I had valuable expertise to contribute.
All of this isn't really directly related to relationships, but , facing my fears has empowered me. I now know that I am a strong, capable woman, and that I can do the things I want or need to do, even if it scared the hell out of me.
I haven't reach the end of my path to empowerment, and I might be on it until my dying breath, but I know that with a few kicks (sometimes more than a few) I can do whatever the f$&$ I want!
I hope this helps you a bit,
Hugs
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
For me, enforcing my boundaries was uncomfortable at first - because it was so new. And sitting with uncomfortable feelings itself, as a concept, was entirely new as well.
That's what it really boiled down to for me - getting used to uncomfortable feelings while simultaneously creating my "New Normal". It's what I imagine it feels like to grow new nerve endings, everything raw & painful even if it's "good" and "right".
In the long run, this is a *part* of how I rebuilt my self-trust - following through on my words FOR ME & showing myself that my needs DO come first no matter how uncomfortable it makes someone else. If I want to believe & trust in myself, I need to show myself that I am believable & trustworthy. (which is no different than any other relationship when you think about it.)
It sounds like you really did the right thing!
That's what it really boiled down to for me - getting used to uncomfortable feelings while simultaneously creating my "New Normal". It's what I imagine it feels like to grow new nerve endings, everything raw & painful even if it's "good" and "right".
In the long run, this is a *part* of how I rebuilt my self-trust - following through on my words FOR ME & showing myself that my needs DO come first no matter how uncomfortable it makes someone else. If I want to believe & trust in myself, I need to show myself that I am believable & trustworthy. (which is no different than any other relationship when you think about it.)
It sounds like you really did the right thing!
totfit
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Collins, CO
Posts: 1,273
There should be no reason in the world for you to have any anxiety with this. You are in not much of a close relationship at this point is sounds and the relationship he needs is a "banking relationship". Just remember that is not the relationship you have or should ever have. It is really that simple. Take care of yourself and family. Best to you
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
It was so outrageous I was angry for the rest of the day, and I also felt used, like he was really only calling me because he wanted something from me. At least, I had been able to stand my ground and say no.
that is a very likely and painful truth....you don't HEAR from him for a month and then when you do..........he wants MONEY. and when you say NO, he tells YOU that YOU need to take out a LOAN to fund HIM. sweets, not sure what else you call it but being USED.
for you on sticking with your NO. each time you state that, you will get stronger, and that urge to defend/rationalize and explain will subside. and hopefully so will he..........
that is a very likely and painful truth....you don't HEAR from him for a month and then when you do..........he wants MONEY. and when you say NO, he tells YOU that YOU need to take out a LOAN to fund HIM. sweets, not sure what else you call it but being USED.
for you on sticking with your NO. each time you state that, you will get stronger, and that urge to defend/rationalize and explain will subside. and hopefully so will he..........
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
My recent XA had credit card debt when we moved in together, so I told him I'd keep covering the house payment while he paid it off.
Fast forward a year, his credit card debt was still there, and he had lived rent-free the entire time. So his net income went UP $1,000 per month since he no longer paid his own rent, and he didn't even make a dent in the credit card debt over a full year.
This came to light when I had him move out and he felt he should have some equity in the house for the few building materials he purchased while we finished a room in the basement. I reminded him that he had been living rent free, and realistically, his equity net of those building materials was negative and he owed me money, so wasn't getting any equity. He apologized and "hadn't thought of it that way".
Recently, a few months into AA, he told me he was never comfortable not contributing to the house but it had been my idea...I called him out on it and said nope, if that were the case you'd have operated differently. Either paying off the debt or telling me you wanted to contribute.
He kind of laughed...because even though he WANTED to remember it differently, that wasn't reality. He took because he could and I was generous and believed in him.
As my dad recently said--it seemed wrong to him that a MAN would be okay living in a woman's house and contributing nothing to it. Sounds really stupid in hindsight admitting that I was okay with it.
Just my experience with a "taker" who I didn't realize was "taking" at the time...and I don't know how that's possible!
Fast forward a year, his credit card debt was still there, and he had lived rent-free the entire time. So his net income went UP $1,000 per month since he no longer paid his own rent, and he didn't even make a dent in the credit card debt over a full year.
This came to light when I had him move out and he felt he should have some equity in the house for the few building materials he purchased while we finished a room in the basement. I reminded him that he had been living rent free, and realistically, his equity net of those building materials was negative and he owed me money, so wasn't getting any equity. He apologized and "hadn't thought of it that way".
Recently, a few months into AA, he told me he was never comfortable not contributing to the house but it had been my idea...I called him out on it and said nope, if that were the case you'd have operated differently. Either paying off the debt or telling me you wanted to contribute.
He kind of laughed...because even though he WANTED to remember it differently, that wasn't reality. He took because he could and I was generous and believed in him.
As my dad recently said--it seemed wrong to him that a MAN would be okay living in a woman's house and contributing nothing to it. Sounds really stupid in hindsight admitting that I was okay with it.
Just my experience with a "taker" who I didn't realize was "taking" at the time...and I don't know how that's possible!
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 158
Thank you each and every one of you for your comments and advice, it really helps to see that Iīm not mean or insane for wanting to defend myself. Knowing that there are others out there who support me in these new habits is a great comfort.
When I see my experience written out here on this forum and commented I can really see how insane it all is. It makes me become angry all over again, which I think is a good thing, because I tend to pretend to myself and others that I donīt mind if someone is unkind to me or trying to take advantage, etc.
In my mind I know that I have to put an end to all interaction with him but Iīm not there yet, I hope to be able to do that soon.
When I see my experience written out here on this forum and commented I can really see how insane it all is. It makes me become angry all over again, which I think is a good thing, because I tend to pretend to myself and others that I donīt mind if someone is unkind to me or trying to take advantage, etc.
In my mind I know that I have to put an end to all interaction with him but Iīm not there yet, I hope to be able to do that soon.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 158
So, there is a new development to this situation - it never just ends when you say no, does it? I just received a phone call from him asking me to transfer a minor amount to his account because he had some trouble with a cheque and needed some funds to cover it or whatever. The amount doesnīt matter, itīs just the fact itself that bothers me.
Itīs saturday morning 8 am, he knows I like to sleep late on weekends and am tired, I just told him a few days ago I canīt give him anything and then he wakes me for exactly that!
When I said I didnīt understand why he would ask me if I had already told him no, he said it was just a very small amount, and he would absolutely do this for me if it were the other way around, and went on and on about this story about his account - which I didnīt care about.
I insisted, yes but what about me, why donīt you ask someone else if I told you this was a problem for me - trying to shed light on my situation. But no, I couldīve been talking to a wall, he just said sorry sorry and then told me about the few times he had given me small presents of about the same amount.
His attitude was like shush shush just do it and go back to sleep.
Argh Iīm so ready to break up over text with him!
(something I know is unpolite but I donīt even want to hear his voice again)
Itīs so true they donīt care s**t about other peopleīs feelings! The whole fact of putting me in this situation is just so inconsiderate towards me, and what is he trying to do, prove a point?
I was thinking this is about the same amount as one bottle of (the cheaper) wine he likes.
Iīm so angry!
And of course if I insist on discussing this he will turn things around and tell me Iīm the one with a problem because Iīm so cheap and he has been sooo generous and even sent me flowers in the beginning. Well yes, he did but he never fails to rub it in, as if this gives him permission to suck me dry!
Also, Iīm thinking some times he has unexpectedly given me things like a chocolate bar (saying "I was just thinking of you so I bought you this") and of course he can use that in his mind to justify his using me as his private bank. And of course, now he will tell anyone who will listen that bluelily is such a cheap b**** because she would get annoyed when he asked her for such a little bit of $$$ - after he had given her so much!
(Btw I have never ever asked him for anything myself.)
Itīs saturday morning 8 am, he knows I like to sleep late on weekends and am tired, I just told him a few days ago I canīt give him anything and then he wakes me for exactly that!
When I said I didnīt understand why he would ask me if I had already told him no, he said it was just a very small amount, and he would absolutely do this for me if it were the other way around, and went on and on about this story about his account - which I didnīt care about.
I insisted, yes but what about me, why donīt you ask someone else if I told you this was a problem for me - trying to shed light on my situation. But no, I couldīve been talking to a wall, he just said sorry sorry and then told me about the few times he had given me small presents of about the same amount.
His attitude was like shush shush just do it and go back to sleep.
Argh Iīm so ready to break up over text with him!
(something I know is unpolite but I donīt even want to hear his voice again)
Itīs so true they donīt care s**t about other peopleīs feelings! The whole fact of putting me in this situation is just so inconsiderate towards me, and what is he trying to do, prove a point?
I was thinking this is about the same amount as one bottle of (the cheaper) wine he likes.
Iīm so angry!
And of course if I insist on discussing this he will turn things around and tell me Iīm the one with a problem because Iīm so cheap and he has been sooo generous and even sent me flowers in the beginning. Well yes, he did but he never fails to rub it in, as if this gives him permission to suck me dry!
Also, Iīm thinking some times he has unexpectedly given me things like a chocolate bar (saying "I was just thinking of you so I bought you this") and of course he can use that in his mind to justify his using me as his private bank. And of course, now he will tell anyone who will listen that bluelily is such a cheap b**** because she would get annoyed when he asked her for such a little bit of $$$ - after he had given her so much!
(Btw I have never ever asked him for anything myself.)
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
Break up with him--sounds like you're ready,
and he continues to try and manipulate and use you financially.
I think a text in this case is just fine.
Remember to block his number afterwords.
Do something nice with your daughter this weekend
and he continues to try and manipulate and use you financially.
I think a text in this case is just fine.
Remember to block his number afterwords.
Do something nice with your daughter this weekend
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Seriously, what's the point of discussing it, and going to the trouble of justifying yourself.
I read somewhere that you only have to say no three times, and the person gives up. I suggest you test the theory on poor boy.
I read somewhere that you only have to say no three times, and the person gives up. I suggest you test the theory on poor boy.
Alive in the Superunknown
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Originally Posted by bluelily
And of course if I insist on discussing this he will turn things around and tell me Iīm the one with a problem because Iīm so cheap and he has been sooo generous and even sent me flowers in the beginning.
Originally Posted by bluelily
[...] he said it was just a very small amount, and he would absolutely do this for me if it were the other way around
[...] he just said sorry sorry and then told me about the few times he had given me small presents of about the same amount
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