Kata

Hello everyone,

So my ABF has been texting me a few times a day since Friday night. He's kept things polite and try to suck up a bit. I guess he thought that by now, I would've been over it. So he asked me when I thought we could see each other. Since I really didn't know the answer to that, as told him the truth, which was "I don't know".

The text conversation when like this:

ABF: When do you think we can see each other?
Me: I don't know.
ABF: Why?
Me: Because things aren't getting better.
ABF: Well, it's hard to fix things from a distance.
Me: Well, it's not pleasant for me when we're close.
ABF: I tried to make it pleasant and nice on Friday.
Me: No. You got angry and lash out at me.
ABF: I tried to do it right… And you know it.
Me: No, you got angry, lash out and then you were disrespectful and condescending on the phone and by texts.
ABF: Everything I try to do turns out wrong. And it's not what I want. I love you, and now, I want to see you soon.
Me: I understand you want to see me soon, but I'm telling you that I don't know. I've had it with the broken promises.
ABF: I wan't to do the right things. It's all I want. And you're not helping me.
Me: Sh*&, all I've been asking is that you treat me with respect. That's what I've been asking and what hasn't been happening.

Now, I now that I shouldn't have gone with Sh*&. Before turning into a crazy lady, I told him that it wasn't the time to have a discussion and that I was about to eat dinner. I just couldn't believe that in his mind, the fact that he was TRYING to be respectful was enough.

What, should I count myself lucky that the overgrown child wants and tries to respect me, but just can't do it?

How in hell can he believe even one word is saying?

Realistically, I know where this is going. It's going nowhere. Or at least, it's going nowhere good to me. But, when I breakup with him (yes, when, not if), I want to be sure of my decision, I want to be resolved. I don't want to get into the cycle of breaking up and making up. I want to be sure that no amount of "ahhh but I love you", self-pity, puppy eyes, promises, etc, will weaken my resolve.

How fraked up does one need to be to even think that trying to respect the one loves is enough?

Sorry for all that venting, it just had to come out, and I didn't think it would've helped anything If had yelled at him...

Liveitwell

He's pulling the circular arguments and illogical crap alcohokcs excel at. He's telling you nice things and complementing you all the while waiting for you to shut him down so it gives him an excuse to lash out.

Backstory for you-when my ex got out of rehab a year and a half ago (we were still married) we talked for a couple if weeks and then decided to meet for lunch after church. At church he was holding my hand, kissing me, whispering in my ear "I thank God for you", etc....so nice, right? Lunch time-same thing, all nice and loving. When he asked me when he could come home, I succinctly stated that it was not safe for me or our children until he had way more sobriety time under his belt (and I knew he was steady drinking again-can tell from a mile away). He very quickly changed from loving to ******* in about two seconds flat-telling me that if it's going to take years for me to trust him again that it wasn't worth it-my response was how many years have you been lying to me? I told him I did want to be married to him and keep my family together. He got madder. Told me I wasn't perfect and I had some issues too. I told him NO. He then got up, stomped away to the bathroom, and came back to the table irate telling me he was going to take our two kids to his family's Christmas party the next weekend...to which I responded NO you will not bc I cannot trust you or your family with the best interests of my children (enabling alcoholic family). He got up to leave and walked outside leaving me at the table. As I walked out he yelled at me "you need to make a decisuin, now!!!"....as I walked to my car. Later that afternoon I texted him asking if he would like to go to lunch later in the week to talk. His responses from that point on were borderline psychotic, and all hell broke loose after that ( read my threads to see what has transpired and what he's done). This was all after swearing to me and our pastor in rehab that he was going to be a Godly husband and father and take care of us and that he would never drink again. Four months after this conversation He lost all visitation due to drinking. That was a year ago.

The reason I'm telling you this is because he's doing exactly what alcoholics do. He's baiting you so he can unload on you. It's what my ex did too. They don't take no for an answer. You need to have very firm boundaries bc otherwise you will get walked over.

Hugs and peace to you. I hope this helped.

Liveitwell

Oh-and to answer your question in your title, yes, he believes his Bulls**t words are going to cut it. You've always bought them before, right?!? (I say that with empathy bc I was there for years and bought every lie he told me).

Kata

Unloading on me seems to be his favourite thing to do. He lashes out, acts like a child and switches to sucking up mode. He then expects things to be back to normal and me to just be happy as if nothing had happened. I'm sure I don't need to point out that nowhere in there is an apology to be found, nor does he take responsability for his actions.
I guess I've bought it before. Well I really bought it the first time. And well, I didn't buy his bullsh$& at the first I'm sorry or I swear either. But yes, I really bought it the first time. The times after that, I let myself buy it, event though I knew it was just words. Now, I don't buy it. But damn... He keeps going at it until he tires me out.

It's crazy too see how much energy and time he's willing to invest in making me believe he understands now, that he will do better, that he'll prove he's the right man for me.

I mean seriously, any sane person would realise that acting like an adult and in a decent manner would require less time and energy then what he's doing...

dandylion

kata.....you are used to expecting "normal". Most of what we are taught, growing up, is meant to be applied to normal.....
An alcoholic is not in their "normal" mind.....therefore, does not match your definition of "sane".......

dandylion

Seren

Hello Kata,

There is an old saying that goes something like this: "When someone shows you who they really are, believe them." Watch someone's actions and see if they match their words.

Love is working for the good of the beloved. It doesn't sound as though he is working for your good, but his own. His words are all about what he wants you to do. IMHO, that is not real love.

I'm sorry you have been through so much pain with this man.

redatlanta

Hon its just manipulation to get you to continue the insane circus. They try this, they try that. Next he will be calling and saying he is turning over a new leaf and recognizes he has disrespected you, and wants to try a new approach - will you join him in the game? If that doesn't work he will try something else.

Get out of his head, that will help you. You are trying to apply normal thinking to manipulative alcoholic thinking (how in the hell can he believe one word he is saying?). He doesn't believe it, that's the point! He is throwing out a nice, juicy shrimp on a hook, and hoping you will bite.

It really is transparent. If you can step outside of the box, and stop analyzing him you will see it so clearly.

Kata

Thank you all for your replies.
I realize that I'm trying to apply normal reasoning to a manipulative man. It just baffles me how he thinks that trying to respect me will be enough. I have to admit I've bought it before.

He has already tried the "I'm turning a new leaf" thing... And his new leaf was very much like the previous one...

Liveitwell

Kata-remember that,...his "new leaf"is just like every other time: only new for a bit and then it's back to same old crap.

Kata

Yup. In his mind, the "new leaf" happens by miracle. No need to do anything, or any work. It just happens! Here I am, going to therapy and doing that hard work on myself. I guess I could save all that money and just say I'm turning a new leaf, and the miracle will happen!

Liveitwell

Remember some famous words: "what you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say"-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Kata

I will keep that in mind. Thank you!

hopeful4

Actions....not words. That's all that really matters.

atalose

The better question is how can you?

FireSprite

Reading this, my first thought was: Well, has it worked before?

Because, you see, I found that every single time I was upset at someone else's lack of respect for me I could step back & see a very, very long history of me allowing & accepting the very things that upset me. It was humbling (at the least) to own my part in this dance. To accept how BIG my part really was.

For all intents & purposes I was just as lost in denial in my codependency as he was in his addicted thinking. Really, I had been the one to allow & let go & accept 1000x before this..... was *I* really surprised that he didn't believe me when I enforced new boundaries? And, digging down a layer into this onion, had I REALLY let go? Or had I just stuffed down & repressed the anger & pain into resentments that I "let go" like a spring-loaded gun during that 1001st incident? (aka chandeliering) Gross.

In the end *my* behavior is what concerns me. In the end, I'm only accountable to me, it's my behavior that matters most. I had to change to being about actions rather than reactions, which are always emotionally driven.

"Retraining" those around me to See & Honor my new boundaries took reinforcement & often lead to a lot of hurt feelings (on all sides) but it has worked out. In the end I have learned that I don't need my experiences to be validated by others in order to be Real. This is MY life now, in a way it never has been before and it is spectacular!

firebolt

I haven't heard that one yet - THANK YOU, FOG!

FS - yeah, this. For a year, most times XABF would speak, I would think, "actions, not words." Then finally, I really accepted what I had done - what I had become - what I had allowed around me - and what I was doing to continue on in the madness, and it helped me put that same standard on myself. 5 years of wishy washying, wavering back and forth about leaving, and waiting for the miracle ended in 1 swooping thought - "Actions, not words, Mandy."

Ariesagain

Not to be even more cynical than usual, but I read this attempt as he wants sex, at least, and a soft place to land would be good, too, so he has fewer annoying distractions from using.

Nero427

Nice BG reference...
Ugh, sounds like it's getting about time to go no-contact with him.

Kata

Ariesagain: spot on! Exactly what I said to my therapist not one hour ago. So if that's cynicism, then we're both cynical.

Atalose: I have bought it in the past. Now, I don't.

Firesprite. Yup, it worked before. And euh, can't respond to your comment any other way than: Yup. Spot on. Gotta own my part in that sh$* show.

Kata

Nero, what can I say, I'm a big nerd/geek and a fan of BG!