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Old 03-09-2016, 10:07 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Forourgirls View Post
WTBH-I agree and you are doing the right thing. These toxic abusers just don't get it one bit and most likely never will. My ex too tried to play the "poor me, daddy's the victim" card last month while talking to our oldest on the phone. Yep-somehow it was my fault he was not included in her birthday plans-not his abusive insabe actions towards his own kids, which got him quickly booted off the guest list. Of course had he followed court orders he would have had visitation ....and could have celebrated with them at that time-but it's easier to not SEE the truth and just point the finger at me. WTBH-this man is literally insane. You don't need to appease him or DO anything other than what you are court ordered to do. Period. He deserves nothing.
I have created this mess 100% for myself by bending "just once" so so so many times... Now I am trapped in this horrid cycle of bending and appeasing and accommodating his demands and it's hard to get off that train...

I am constantly fearful he will say that bc I am not bending as I always have, that I am not cooperating or making it possible for him to see the kids and I am desperate to not go back to court...

I guess I am being irrational.... I don't know... I just would LOVE for one event for my kids not to be impacted, even behind the scenes, by xAH's crazy abuser drunken antics.
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Old 03-09-2016, 10:30 AM
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I agree with others that being cooperative is the best possible outcome when dealing with a healthy ex partner...however, yours is not remotely close to healthy and only uses evebts to further harass, victimize and threaten (mine did/does too). To assume otherwise would be foolish on my part. My job is to keep my kids safe and do things in their best interest. View all things through that filter and you'll be just fine. I know it's hard to stop getting your feathers ruffled when he does this, but that's why he does it. Just to get to you. I've turned mine, and his other flying monkeys, over to God and pray for them instead of getting angry or allowing them one more second of control over my feelings, emotions or any piece of my life. Don't let this "man" make you second guess yourself.
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Old 03-09-2016, 10:30 AM
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He can say whatever he wants. The fact is he has specific days and times to see the children. If he doesn't adhere to those well so be it..his loss.

Put your foot down starting now. I imagine that once he's see's you mean business his shenanigans will stop. You didn't mention how old your daughter is. Your children don't need to know why going on behind the scenes. That's adult play. Believe me they will know well enough when they are older. Do yourself a favor and stop including him to parties ( I'm sure that these kids must get a knot in their stomachs just hoping he won't act crazy anyway). Not cool. If he wants to do something special for them on their birthdays let him do it on HIS OWN TIME.
Good luck girl! Stay strong!!
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:09 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Yeah I guess I would have been better served to not remind him it was his D's bday and try and coordinate a time for him to see her.

Clearly I care more about this than he does and spending weeks trying to get him to commit to seeing her this weekend has just created a nightmare now for me bc he realizes that he can cause chaos....
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:12 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Lilro View Post
He can say whatever he wants. The fact is he has specific days and times to see the children. If he doesn't adhere to those well so be it..his loss.

Put your foot down starting now. I imagine that once he's see's you mean business his shenanigans will stop. You didn't mention how old your daughter is. Your children don't need to know why going on behind the scenes. That's adult play. Believe me they will know well enough when they are older. Do yourself a favor and stop including him to parties ( I'm sure that these kids must get a knot in their stomachs just hoping he won't act crazy anyway). Not cool. If he wants to do something special for them on their birthdays let him do it on HIS OWN TIME.
Good luck girl! Stay strong!!
I wish the bolded part were true... My anxiety about holding him to the decree is that when I have done this (around his losing parenting entirely due to not being sober) he files frivoulous motions to take me to court and it is disruptive to ME and my work life. He never gets anywhere with it but it's disruptive nonetheless.

My putting my foot down makes him ramp up his insanity usually.

DD is going to be 8. And she and her sister were in the house when their father broke in on her bday a year ago and smashed a door in and assaulted me in front of them. So they are keenly aware and anxious as well about whether he will act similarly.

Given his level of rage last night in text and email and his multiple calls to me all of which I ignored, I am alarmed too
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:54 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Sending hugs, WTBH.

Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
I am constantly fearful he will say that bc I am not bending as I always have, that I am not cooperating or making it possible for him to see the kids
It's so hard. And, frankly, terrifying, feeling stuck in that loop. AXH did the same stuff. He'd bail on his scheduled times and then demand to see DS *now*, it was part of his weekend. I *knew* that the agreement outlined when he was supposed to see DS, and what his not showing meant, but it was still so hard to hear that over AXH's constant barrage of self-entitlement, threats to take DS so I'd never see him again, complaints of me unreasonably keeping DS from him.

It takes so much courage to stand up. And it can be so hard to access that courage after leaving an abusive partner.

The first few times I stood up and told AXH "no" to his last minute changes to the schedule were overwhelmingly panic-inducing, but it did get easier. I slowly started to understand that not everyone believed AXH. Even now after the court took away his visitation rights, I'm still a bit afraid of that: that he'd tell them that I was a terrible mom and refusing to let him see DS at all, and they'd believe him.

I'd spent so long having him subtly reinforce that his desires outweighed anything else, that what he said *now* was all that mattered, I was basically conditioned to just do what he said. His rages when I didn't do what he wanted (even if he never came out and said what he wanted) were part of that.

I hope you see how strong and courageous you are, even when you bend, and (especially) when you don't. Wishing you and your DD a safe, lovely, joy-filled birthday. You both deserve it. ((((hugs))))
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:01 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
I wish the bolded part were true... My anxiety about holding him to the decree is that when I have done this (around his losing parenting entirely due to not being sober) he files frivoulous motions to take me to court and it is disruptive to ME and my work life. He never gets anywhere with it but it's disruptive nonetheless.

My putting my foot down makes him ramp up his insanity usually.

DD is going to be 8. And she and her sister were in the house when their father broke in on her bday a year ago and smashed a door in and assaulted me in front of them. So they are keenly aware and anxious as well about whether he will act similarly.

Given his level of rage last night in text and email and his multiple calls to me all of which I ignored, I am alarmed too
I really know how you feel here, its so hard to make decisions like this in the midst of so much insanity. For me, I placated my ex a lot because he was just easier to deal with that way. But it came back to bit me in ass later 10 fold. Youre attorney is right, and given the circumstances (i am not sure of the laws in your state) its possible you could get another RO with all this harassment.

I try to look at things as simply and rational as possible (understanding addiction is NOT rational). If someone told me i had to do things 1-10 to see my daughter I would do them immediately, to the best of my ability, and notify whoever possible that they were done. You are the victim here and he is not. If he truly cares about his children he would do what he is supposed to do; he can say whatever he wants but thats the very simple truth. You are doing a good job sticking up for yourself and your kids, I know how hard it is. My DD has a birthday coming up next month and I am not letting my ex see her. He hasnt seen her since before christmas. Whos fault is it? His, because he didnt do what was asked.
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:03 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty View Post
Sending hugs, WTBH.



It's so hard. And, frankly, terrifying, feeling stuck in that loop. AXH did the same stuff. He'd bail on his scheduled times and then demand to see DS *now*, it was part of his weekend. I *knew* that the agreement outlined when he was supposed to see DS, and what his not showing meant, but it was still so hard to hear that over AXH's constant barrage of self-entitlement, threats to take DS so I'd never see him again, complaints of me unreasonably keeping DS from him.

It takes so much courage to stand up. And it can be so hard to access that courage after leaving an abusive partner.

The first few times I stood up and told AXH "no" to his last minute changes to the schedule were overwhelmingly panic-inducing, but it did get easier. I slowly started to understand that not everyone believed AXH. Even now after the court took away his visitation rights, I'm still a bit afraid of that: that he'd tell them that I was a terrible mom and refusing to let him see DS at all, and they'd believe him.

I'd spent so long having him subtly reinforce that his desires outweighed anything else, that what he said *now* was all that mattered, I was basically conditioned to just do what he said. His rages when I didn't do what he wanted (even if he never came out and said what he wanted) were part of that.

I hope you see how strong and courageous you are, even when you bend, and (especially) when you don't. Wishing you and your DD a safe, lovely, joy-filled birthday. You both deserve it. ((((hugs))))
This is exactly me-- all of it-- I feel trapped and scared and to be totally honest, Ive had very very little contact with him recently... I talk only about visitation stuff and only in writing. I thought if I changed MY part of the dance, that he would stop finding pleasure in causing chaos and bullying (bc this nonsense around wanting me to never make plans and never know if or when he might show is nothing but controlling and bullying for him). But it hasn't stopped at all. He is bound and determined to make things hellish for as long as the kids are minors.

Our parenting plan was final a year and a half ago and has ELOBORATE steps that deal with sobriety and that was most important to me for the kids sake.

One sacrifice I had to make was leaving the visitation piece much more vague than I wanted with nothing explicitly stated in there about what happens IF and WHEN he does not show.

I just feel overwhelmed and trapped and don't even have a legal document that explicitly states that I can and have the right to not be put through this.
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:05 PM
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"He seriously spends excessive amounts of energy just finding ways to be disruptive and difficult"

Umm no. It comes quite naturally to them.

Everything I have learned so far about setting boundaries is that
you absolutely will get pushback. Mean, controlling narcissists don't
like losing control -ever, and it's the worst when you begin enforcing
boundaries.

So, plan on it. For example, at the bd party, can you get a few big guys,
maybe family or friends to be around? Nothing works better to
intimidate a cowardly narcissist than a show of force. Nothing needs
to be said or done, just have them there, very conspicuously. (In
case he decides to show up)

And for your sweet kids, seems like telling them, "dad's not
following the rules, and these are the consequences" is
enough.
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:10 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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WTBH,

My suggestion to you, is to take away his ammunition. His ammunition is his constant threats of court. You do know that you have the proof that all of his allegations of contempt of court on you are totally unfounded and ridiculous.

Now if you file that motion for contempt of court due to him being tens of thousands in arrears in child support, that is not frivolous. That's a fact. I'm pretty sure the court would have his pay garnished, and if he didn't get his tax return yet, that would be garnished. This right here would pay your attorney fees. (which I would be also asking for, due to the indemnification clause in your divorce decree)

Did you hear anything about that last contempt of court motion?

I also have to say that he needs to take a breathalyzer at a police station for visitation, then no way should he pick your daughter up tomorrow morning, even if it is before you are leaving without the breathalyzer. He also can't see your daughters in the pm, without that breathalyzer, and he can't be at your house because he didn't have a breathalyzer.

He is pushing you and pushing you to see how far he can push you, and once he finds out, he will push more.

I understand your anxiety and your worries, I really do. I do think sometimes that we need to face our fears. Now after saying that, I realize that I do think your ex may be more of a "nut job" then mine. I'm not the one to answer those questions, there are many more qualified people here, then I am, for that one.

I just know what a good person you are, and you do not deserve any of this.

((((((hugs)))))))
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:18 PM
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Remember, with an abuser you can change your part of the dance, but they will keep looking for another button to push, to get you to dance some more.

amy
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:23 PM
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^ Amy makes a very good point...this is nothing about you....or your kids. It's all about him. It's always been about him. If he gets any reaction out of you then he's won (bc these abusers look at this as a competition-very sick and twisted) . Have you looked up grey rock theory and narcissism? Check it out if you havent....
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:25 PM
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"take away his ammunition"

yes this.
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:31 PM
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He only can see the kids if we first meet at the police station and he takes a breathalyzer there.

That is in the parenting plan. And it is why I have said NO to his insane idea of his popping by where I will be (out of town) and getting the kids from me there. Ummmmm NO.

He's seeking ways to NOT meet at the police station, not show he's sober, and is not willing to follow the parenting plan.

So I guess I need to just calm down and realize he is the one violating things. Not me.

Not a peep from the court about his attempts at filing contempt against me. I, with my lawyers help, wrote a response, with facts, and there has been nothing more from the court.
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:50 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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WTBH,

I found my ex's buttons. It was being told by court that he had to pay my attorney fees, his attorney fees, and incarceration. Yes, I did have him arrested once.

When I started to stand up to him, he didn't like it one bit, now he backs down. I am not afraid of court, and just mentioning court, and that indemnification clause, stops him. I understand his parents have "deep pockets". That's fine, they can get him out of jail after they give you the child support that he owes.

No more emails, no more answering anything from him, no contact with him except to know if he will be at the police station on Friday pm for the exchange after the breathalyzer.

Get his wages garnished. Do you know I was paying $25 a year for this for my alimony. With child support, they will go right after him, and you wouldn't have to.

((((((hugs)))))
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:50 PM
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WTBH,
Your posts exude your caring, attentive and nurturing thoughts,
feelings & actions for your children.

Please treat yourself with as much care. The saying "progress, not
perfection" is calming to me. Even with raising kids, everyone makes
mistakes. The thing that matters is intent, and your intentions are very
loving and good. You are making wonderful progress!
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:01 PM
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^ I agree! Well said. You are doing great, WTBH.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:23 PM
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Yep he is violating not you. I am sure you have documentation of everything. He calls, he writes, he shows up and he asks you to violate the parenting agreement regularly.

A couple weeks ago wasn't he threatening you with Court again. Stop Jumping. Perhaps it is YOU who should file contempt.
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Old 03-09-2016, 03:06 PM
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The agreement didn't outline the ramifications, per se, for AXH's no shows, not like "no-show x number of times and that's it, no more visitation." But it did give me the following power:
  • DS and I could go do other stuff on the days that AXH didn't show up or didn't show up with a visitation supervisor.
  • I could say no to schedules or revisions to schedules that AXH proposed (demanded) - last minute or otherwise.
  • I could say no to any new visitation supervisors he proposed.

The fault for not seeing DS was on AXH, not me. He failed to follow the visitation plan and its requirements. And when he no-showed Saturday and then tried to pick DS up on Sunday, it was an attempt to change the schedule set up by the court. The change definitely wasn't discussed or approved by both us, so I was under no obligation to grant his "request". The judge even said during the hearings that I could take *this* plan to the bank. I didn't have to negotiate, and I still had (have) a hard time believing I could.

But here's the upshot that I try to keep in mind: *This* is the plan. AXH's proposed changes or last minute revisions are not the plan. I have a right to go by the plan. AXH's right to see DS is based on him following the plan.

I think you have much more power than you might realize, just like I did.
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Old 03-09-2016, 05:13 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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WTBH,

I have to agree with theuncertainty. You will never know how much power you have till you start to use it.

Sometimes I think back to the movie Dolores Claiborne, when the rich lady said to Dolores Claiborne, and my quote may be inaccurate, but I think it was "Sometimes being a b!tch is all a woman's got to hold on to. I translated that as sometimes we need to do things that we don't want to, to protect ourselves and our children.

(((((hugs)))))
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