Alcoholic Wife in Recovery Now Wants Out
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Jada1981,
It has taken some time, but I have realized that there is no way I can control what my wife does or does not do. Pleading begging or nagging did not stop her from drinking.
I will continue to go to Al-Anon regardless of what she is doing. It seems like she likes her new counselor and is doing things she did not do before like journaling talking about cravings, etc.
It has taken some time, but I have realized that there is no way I can control what my wife does or does not do. Pleading begging or nagging did not stop her from drinking.
I will continue to go to Al-Anon regardless of what she is doing. It seems like she likes her new counselor and is doing things she did not do before like journaling talking about cravings, etc.
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Originally Posted by jada1981 
I do not believe someone can really detach from their alcoholic spouse's behaviors while the alcoholic is actively drinking and/or not taking recovery seriously.
Not that detachment alone makes everything better. It's a way to protect yourself from the effects of the drinking and to keep the focus on yourself and your needs, rather than trying to "manage" the alcoholic.
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I agree with Lexie. We don't discuss it as often here, but we do occasionally also talk about how while detachment is a great coping strategy for a co-dependent in early recovery, it's not (for most people, anyway) really a long-term strategy for living with and maintaining a relationship with an active addict indefinitely. For me, detachment allowed me some headspace to think clearly about myself, about what I wanted, and about how everything was affecting my children.
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I guess at least when it comes to drinking I am trying to detach myself from how it affects me. When she is sober I will be the best husband I can be with the knowledge that I have no control of her drinking or when she decides to quit.
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Lamp, one thing I notice is that you seem to have realized that you have no control over her drinking or whether she quits. But the next step is realizing that you have no control over her *at all.* And as long as she's not sober and working a recovery program, her decisions and actions are going to be reflective of her addiction. But even if she is sober and working a recovery program, every single thing she does is solely within her control. She *may* be more likely to make more rational, less harmful decisions if she's sober and in recovery, but there is no way to know that. Either way, whether she's drinking or not, whether she's in recovery or not, your actions are not going to dictate her choices. If she's sober, and in recovery, there are no magic steps you can take to keep her from leaving if she wants to leave. Being the best husband you can be will not convince her to stay if she has decided to leave; it won't convince her not to cheat if she has decided to cheat. Believe me, I tried so, so hard to be perfect, and shield my STBXAH from anything bad or negative, and to be nothing but supportive and kind and helpful. It took a long time for me to realize that his continued bad behavior was 100% only a reflection of HIM, and not a reflection of my perceived failures as a wife.
I just want you to be gentle with yourself here. There is much more going on here than just bad behavior caused by drinking. It is so very much more complicated than that.
I just want you to be gentle with yourself here. There is much more going on here than just bad behavior caused by drinking. It is so very much more complicated than that.
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Originally Posted by jada1981
I can't tell you what you should do, but I do not believe someone can really detach from their alcoholic spouse's behaviors while the alcoholic is actively drinking and/or not taking recovery seriously. Actions, not words, are the best way to get through to them.
For me, detachment is a lot like Wisconsin describes.... creating headspace for myself & not getting dragged into the current crisis. Also, not letting it impact everything else going on around me - like getting short-tempered with DD or spending every moment worrying over it & not engaging with or enjoying the rest of my life.
Detaching with love is great, once you can get there. In the beginning I was just happy enough to detach without hatred.
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Wisconsin - And that is what is so frustrating. I do realize that I must acknowledge (that I should have known all along) that the only person I can or should control is myself.
Before she told me that she was thinking off leaving we would talk about her addiction. Now I just feel like I am out of the loop. Her counselor advised her to be more engaged.
And by being the best husband I can be maybe I should rephrase that and say be the best friend I can be since the addiction has in essence killed our marriage. For the last six months when she came to and was sober I never harped on it even when she was putting herself down. I would only say take it one day at a time.
It is hard for me to detach from someone who I consider my best friend.
Before she told me that she was thinking off leaving we would talk about her addiction. Now I just feel like I am out of the loop. Her counselor advised her to be more engaged.
And by being the best husband I can be maybe I should rephrase that and say be the best friend I can be since the addiction has in essence killed our marriage. For the last six months when she came to and was sober I never harped on it even when she was putting herself down. I would only say take it one day at a time.
It is hard for me to detach from someone who I consider my best friend.
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So in essence when she is getting loaded being detached is not letting it get to me (like getting crabby with the kids). Its her issue and leave it at that - don't fret or think about it.
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Oh Lamp, nothing about this is easy. My own personal history is a long line of relationships with people who felt more strongly about me than I did about them. That was very deliberate on my part. Then I reconnected with STBXAH (we went to junior high and high school together), and I loved him so, so much. He was sober and working a recovery program then. I had absolutely no personal context for addiction, and did nothing to try to understand what alcoholism was. I just figured that because he was sober, everything would be fine.
I dove in headfirst into the first relationship of my life where I felt like I loved someone in equal measure to the way he loved me. He relapsed shortly after we were married, and I spent years with my heart pulverized into love dust. Detachment was very, very difficult for me, too. I think that is totally natural. I do know, though, that if your focus is on being the best ANYTHING to her, then the focus ISN'T on doing what's right for yourself and your child(ren). My STBXAH was absolutely the most important person in our household, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for years. To the detriment of my own emotional well-being, and certainly to the detriment of my children's emotional well-being.
Detachment is HARD. Especially at first, it's not about "not fretting or thinking" about it. Because you will fret and think all day and all night. My first steps involved detaching my behavior. I stopped taking the bait for arguments, or for "deep conversations" that inevitably resulted in me being blamed for everything. I had some additional challenges in that my STBXAH was very emotionally abusive, and detachment can trigger outbursts of abuse, but changing my BEHAVIOR was a necessary step before my THOUGHTS started to change.
I recently learned during a seminar about conscious and unconscious thinking, in right and wrong ways. When we are engaged in long-term, unhealthy behavior, it is unconscious, wrong thinking (conscious wrong thinking). The first step toward getting better is to acknowledge that your thinking is dysfunctional or wrong or harmful in some ways. Once you acknowledge that, you can start to work on behaviors that enforce conscious RIGHT thinking--deliberately doing things that reflect healthy, functional thought processes and emotional reactions. Eventually, those behaviors become ingrained habits, and you have unconscious right thinking.
I dove in headfirst into the first relationship of my life where I felt like I loved someone in equal measure to the way he loved me. He relapsed shortly after we were married, and I spent years with my heart pulverized into love dust. Detachment was very, very difficult for me, too. I think that is totally natural. I do know, though, that if your focus is on being the best ANYTHING to her, then the focus ISN'T on doing what's right for yourself and your child(ren). My STBXAH was absolutely the most important person in our household, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for years. To the detriment of my own emotional well-being, and certainly to the detriment of my children's emotional well-being.
Detachment is HARD. Especially at first, it's not about "not fretting or thinking" about it. Because you will fret and think all day and all night. My first steps involved detaching my behavior. I stopped taking the bait for arguments, or for "deep conversations" that inevitably resulted in me being blamed for everything. I had some additional challenges in that my STBXAH was very emotionally abusive, and detachment can trigger outbursts of abuse, but changing my BEHAVIOR was a necessary step before my THOUGHTS started to change.
I recently learned during a seminar about conscious and unconscious thinking, in right and wrong ways. When we are engaged in long-term, unhealthy behavior, it is unconscious, wrong thinking (conscious wrong thinking). The first step toward getting better is to acknowledge that your thinking is dysfunctional or wrong or harmful in some ways. Once you acknowledge that, you can start to work on behaviors that enforce conscious RIGHT thinking--deliberately doing things that reflect healthy, functional thought processes and emotional reactions. Eventually, those behaviors become ingrained habits, and you have unconscious right thinking.
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lampkins.....some practical things that may carve you some
space" and allow you to redirect some of your attention.....
If she is loaded or argumentative......take the kids and go out of the house...to the park, or library or out anywhere....
Keep yourself busy with your own activities.....rake the yard, caulk the bathtub,
listen to music with headphones.....
Go out with your own friends-----do hobbies that you like....
(I am not sure how old your kids are)...
Picture her with a large A on her head--for "Alcoholism".....or picture her l ike a duck quacking.....for when she is deflecting (blaming you)....or, picking a fight with you....Or just saying something ridiculous......
Don't curtail you life....just because she might demand it......
These are just some ideas....there are many others....
Remember that y ou have the right to decide what you will tolerate and can live with.......
Detachment (as described) is one tool.....however, you can't build a whole house with just a hammer or screwdriver.....
dandylion
space" and allow you to redirect some of your attention.....
If she is loaded or argumentative......take the kids and go out of the house...to the park, or library or out anywhere....
Keep yourself busy with your own activities.....rake the yard, caulk the bathtub,
listen to music with headphones.....
Go out with your own friends-----do hobbies that you like....
(I am not sure how old your kids are)...
Picture her with a large A on her head--for "Alcoholism".....or picture her l ike a duck quacking.....for when she is deflecting (blaming you)....or, picking a fight with you....Or just saying something ridiculous......
Don't curtail you life....just because she might demand it......
These are just some ideas....there are many others....
Remember that y ou have the right to decide what you will tolerate and can live with.......
Detachment (as described) is one tool.....however, you can't build a whole house with just a hammer or screwdriver.....
dandylion
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Originally Posted by lampkins69
So in essence when she is getting loaded being detached is not letting it get to me (like getting crabby with the kids). Its her issue and leave it at that - don't fret or think about it.
Has anyone told you about the Hula Hoop yet? You put it on the ground & step inside of it - everything inside of the hoop is what you have control over. Everything outside the hoop is outside of your control. It helped me to see that I could control RAH's actions & thoughts about as much as I could control the weather.
I am acutely aware of not spreading my discomfort with RAH downhill onto DD in ways like having a crappy, short-tempered attitude because that was the worst part of dealing with a Codie Mom when I was a kid with an alcoholic dad. A kid can't differentiate that she's mad at him, not me; nor do they understand or have the ability to detach when they are young. When mom wasn't peeved off with dad, she was revolving around his demands & needs which always made him the MOST important person in the family. Everything hinged on his mood, his wants, his choices - everything. That's how I learned to be a codependent. When he was happy, we all were.
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I'm so sorry for your situation, it's sad. You've received a lot of excellent advice. If your wife is drinking two bottle of wine, every other day, she's drinking a bottle a day......hardly " early recovery".
She is an adult and you've accepted, you can't control her...at all. Concentrate on those who need you, your children, and take care of yourself.
She is an adult and you've accepted, you can't control her...at all. Concentrate on those who need you, your children, and take care of yourself.
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin
We don't discuss it as often here, but we do occasionally also talk about how while detachment is a great coping strategy for a co-dependent in early recovery, it's not (for most people, anyway) really a long-term strategy for living with and maintaining a relationship with an active addict indefinitely.
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Well I screwed up. I bought my spouse wine yesterday. When I did it I realized that I condone the drinking because it is the only time I can get her to sit down and spend time with me. We sit and talk. If she is not drinking she is going 100 miles an hour. That was very selfish of me.
This morning she woke up and was mad at me. My younger daughter had a major meltdown and attacked me before work. I feel like a total failure.
This morning she woke up and was mad at me. My younger daughter had a major meltdown and attacked me before work. I feel like a total failure.
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lampkins.......again.....what you do or don't do is not the cause of her alcoholism.....
Just on a practical point....If I were you I would not supply the alcohol for her, though.
Anything that makes drinking easier for her (through your efforts) would fall into the category of "enabling".
Can you see how you all are l ocked into the "dance of alcoholism".
Perhaps you might begin there to set a boundary for yourself that you will no l onger supply alcohol for her...
You might also give up trying to "trick" her into spending time with you. People tend to do what they want to do. If she doesn't want to spend time with you....let it go---in other words---DETACH.
This is where you can use various actions for yourself---if she doesn't want to spend time with you or talk with you....find other ways to keep yourself occupied.....at least it will keep you from going crazy by getting into these skirmishes with her......
I know that you are desperate to make everything o.k. in the relationship.....but, a relationship is a two way street---a voluntary two way street.....
Just because someone is unhappy with you or criticizing you, does not make you a failure!
I divorced my children's father......it was what I had to do, for many reasons. It was not a casual decision....and, I, several decades later do not consider it a bad decision.....and, I certainly do not consider myself a failure!
(I am not telling you to divorce, necessarily---I am just saying that I am not a failure......
dandylion
Just on a practical point....If I were you I would not supply the alcohol for her, though.
Anything that makes drinking easier for her (through your efforts) would fall into the category of "enabling".
Can you see how you all are l ocked into the "dance of alcoholism".
Perhaps you might begin there to set a boundary for yourself that you will no l onger supply alcohol for her...
You might also give up trying to "trick" her into spending time with you. People tend to do what they want to do. If she doesn't want to spend time with you....let it go---in other words---DETACH.
This is where you can use various actions for yourself---if she doesn't want to spend time with you or talk with you....find other ways to keep yourself occupied.....at least it will keep you from going crazy by getting into these skirmishes with her......
I know that you are desperate to make everything o.k. in the relationship.....but, a relationship is a two way street---a voluntary two way street.....
Just because someone is unhappy with you or criticizing you, does not make you a failure!
I divorced my children's father......it was what I had to do, for many reasons. It was not a casual decision....and, I, several decades later do not consider it a bad decision.....and, I certainly do not consider myself a failure!
(I am not telling you to divorce, necessarily---I am just saying that I am not a failure......
dandylion
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Dandy,
From what I read here and from Al Anon nothing will get better with an addict until they are in recovery. I just wish that I could fix things and then I get so overwhelmed I do stupid stuff ... like buying wine for her - I have not done that for almost 6 months.
She was sad that I was going to Al Anon - I told her that I am going for myself and has nothing to do with her.
And I start freaking myself out cause she has a day off and then I used to worry about coming home and finding her passed out. She has an appointment with her counselor today. Is this something I should even ask her about? When she sees her she has been really optimistic about her recovery for a couple days. Lately I have been waiting for her to breach that topic.
I am having a hard time trying to find some sort of balance or way to live now that she is in recovery or attempting a recovery. Part of me thinks that I should be preparing for divorce or separation, then when she talks about planning our vacation and it makes me happy.
Not related to the wife but I was able to get an appointment tomorrow to the same doctor that treated my son with his autism. I think getting some help with my daughter will help me at least.
I do support all replies to my situation.
From what I read here and from Al Anon nothing will get better with an addict until they are in recovery. I just wish that I could fix things and then I get so overwhelmed I do stupid stuff ... like buying wine for her - I have not done that for almost 6 months.
She was sad that I was going to Al Anon - I told her that I am going for myself and has nothing to do with her.
And I start freaking myself out cause she has a day off and then I used to worry about coming home and finding her passed out. She has an appointment with her counselor today. Is this something I should even ask her about? When she sees her she has been really optimistic about her recovery for a couple days. Lately I have been waiting for her to breach that topic.
I am having a hard time trying to find some sort of balance or way to live now that she is in recovery or attempting a recovery. Part of me thinks that I should be preparing for divorce or separation, then when she talks about planning our vacation and it makes me happy.
Not related to the wife but I was able to get an appointment tomorrow to the same doctor that treated my son with his autism. I think getting some help with my daughter will help me at least.
I do support all replies to my situation.
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I say this as gently as possible, Lamp, but nothing you've said about your wife's ACTIONS suggests to me that she is in recovery or attempting recovery. She talks about it, particularly after her therapy sessions, it seems. But her actions are still those of an alcoholic with no plan to quit.
I, too, used to dread the days when my STBXAH was off work. His job is weather-dependent, and I really grew to hate rainy days because I never knew what I would be coming home to, and because I allowed myself to obsess over what he was doing. Today? I can sit in my office and see that it's raining outside, and not care one bit about it.
My STBXAH was also a master manipulator in ways similar to your AW. He would treat me HORRIBLY one day, and the next day it was all optimism and talking about future plans and just generally acting like nothing was wrong. It was a way for him to hook me back into the relationship over and over again, without ever actually DOING anything differently.
Others may have different opinions, but my gut instinct is for you to give your wife her space. If she wants to discuss her therapy appointment, she can bring it up.
I think your response on Al Anon is right on. Because it's NOT about her. It's about you. And the more she protests your attendance, or tells you it makes her "sad," or any other manipulative stuff, the less she is ready for real recovery. My understanding is that AA, and most addiction counselors, tell alcoholics that their loved ones SHOULD attend Al Anon.
I, too, used to dread the days when my STBXAH was off work. His job is weather-dependent, and I really grew to hate rainy days because I never knew what I would be coming home to, and because I allowed myself to obsess over what he was doing. Today? I can sit in my office and see that it's raining outside, and not care one bit about it.
My STBXAH was also a master manipulator in ways similar to your AW. He would treat me HORRIBLY one day, and the next day it was all optimism and talking about future plans and just generally acting like nothing was wrong. It was a way for him to hook me back into the relationship over and over again, without ever actually DOING anything differently.
Others may have different opinions, but my gut instinct is for you to give your wife her space. If she wants to discuss her therapy appointment, she can bring it up.
I think your response on Al Anon is right on. Because it's NOT about her. It's about you. And the more she protests your attendance, or tells you it makes her "sad," or any other manipulative stuff, the less she is ready for real recovery. My understanding is that AA, and most addiction counselors, tell alcoholics that their loved ones SHOULD attend Al Anon.
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I'm not sure why you think she is "attempting recovery" when she had you buy wine for her yesterday. She can SAY she's "attempting recovery" till the cows come home. What is she DOING about it?
You aren't at her mercy unless you choose to be. You can make choices based on what's best for you and your kids, regardless of what she does. She knows she has you on a string--she can say "divorce" and you respond one way, she says "vacation together" and you respond another. Keeping you in a constant state of uncertainty plays right into her wish to keep her comfortably drinking at home, where you take care of the hard stuff.
Think about it.
You aren't at her mercy unless you choose to be. You can make choices based on what's best for you and your kids, regardless of what she does. She knows she has you on a string--she can say "divorce" and you respond one way, she says "vacation together" and you respond another. Keeping you in a constant state of uncertainty plays right into her wish to keep her comfortably drinking at home, where you take care of the hard stuff.
Think about it.
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lampkins.....I do get it....that you so badly want to fix things.....
I think most of us, here, spent time trying to do anything we could think of to fix things.....
It is very hard to wrap your head around the fact that you can't fix it yourself....
to answer your question....from my perspective....I would keep hands off her relationship with her counselor....
By her actions...you will be able to tell how she is doing. Her actions will tell you everything you need to know......
Perhaps you are beginning to grieve (or pre-grieve) the loss of the dream that you had for your marriage....If so...I think that would be natural for the situation as you describe it.....
dandylion
I think most of us, here, spent time trying to do anything we could think of to fix things.....
It is very hard to wrap your head around the fact that you can't fix it yourself....
to answer your question....from my perspective....I would keep hands off her relationship with her counselor....
By her actions...you will be able to tell how she is doing. Her actions will tell you everything you need to know......
Perhaps you are beginning to grieve (or pre-grieve) the loss of the dream that you had for your marriage....If so...I think that would be natural for the situation as you describe it.....
dandylion
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I agree - this isn't her attempting recovery, Lamp. Dandy's suggestion to slow down & think about your boundaries is a very good idea - in fact, I'd personally spend a LOT of time today, rethinking why I suddenly decided to buy her wine after 6 months of not doing so.
I want to back up to this point though:
IMO, be careful of your expectations. Recovery was HARDER for us than his drinking in a LOT of ways. It's just as unpredictable only without any kind of comfortable rut to hide out in. It was after we each started our respective recoveries that I really started to question things, when I really needed more space & time to figure my own crap out, when I really did not foresee things working out. FOUR YEARS LATER, I'm starting to get around that thought, if that tells you anything.
I really think your best bet is to take it slow, listen more than you speak, watch for actions/not words & get to any kind of meetings or therapy for YOU that works for you. You don't have to decide everything right now, today.
I want to back up to this point though:
From what I read here and from Al Anon nothing will get better with an addict until they are in recovery.
I really think your best bet is to take it slow, listen more than you speak, watch for actions/not words & get to any kind of meetings or therapy for YOU that works for you. You don't have to decide everything right now, today.
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