Trolling the aa forum
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD
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I am not an alcoholic but I have open AA meetings in my weekly rotation, to augment my Alanon meetings. I identify a lot with the spiritual malady and obsession, as stated in the Big Book. Probably the only thing that stopped me from being an alcoholic is that booze didn't give me the fix. Sometimes I identify a lot with NA speakers too though I've not gone to an NA meeting yet. I've heard plenty of remorse from the AA and from NA (those being speaker recordings)- my Alanon sponsor is a double-winner and he is always up front about the pain he's caused.
So if the OP is being triggered by hanging out in the AA forums I'd suggest not going there for the time being & do your own recovery work. Maybe look in over there occasionally and perhaps you'll find your perspective changes.
Personally I had a good bit of animosity towards the AA's at first- "don't bother me with the Big Book, I have my own Alanon books" sorts of stuff. Once I was well into the steps and reading the Big Book as per my sponsor's suggestion then my attitude started changing. To be honest, it was an AA speaker recording that decided me to start the Alanon 12 steps, that was a big turning point.
So if the OP is being triggered by hanging out in the AA forums I'd suggest not going there for the time being & do your own recovery work. Maybe look in over there occasionally and perhaps you'll find your perspective changes.
Personally I had a good bit of animosity towards the AA's at first- "don't bother me with the Big Book, I have my own Alanon books" sorts of stuff. Once I was well into the steps and reading the Big Book as per my sponsor's suggestion then my attitude started changing. To be honest, it was an AA speaker recording that decided me to start the Alanon 12 steps, that was a big turning point.
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this must be in reference to an aa forum on some other site as i read people discuss their old behaviors and harm done quite often.
maybe read through the f&f forum and read the replies from the recovering alcoholics,too.
maybe read through the f&f forum and read the replies from the recovering alcoholics,too.
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Location: Western US
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Great thread Mylifeismine. Also thanks to all the contributors. It has made me think quite a bit.
I actually prefer the Alcoholic Newcomers' area but belong with you all. Humanity has a tendency to wallow in blame-complain. Alcoholics trying for sobriety are the rare folks who don't.
In the decades since I left my qualifier to his meth addiction, I have continued to struggle with keeping my sticky paws out of other folks' lives. I have apologized on occasion for the hurt I have caused but probably not enough.
I have struggled with the Friends and Family Forums as so much is about our qualifiers (the "the nasty bitter" part of who we are) while I want to see more about our own recovery; however I understand that many are grieving and struggling with the damage from being in these dysfunctional relationships.
I actually prefer the Alcoholic Newcomers' area but belong with you all. Humanity has a tendency to wallow in blame-complain. Alcoholics trying for sobriety are the rare folks who don't.
In the decades since I left my qualifier to his meth addiction, I have continued to struggle with keeping my sticky paws out of other folks' lives. I have apologized on occasion for the hurt I have caused but probably not enough.
I have struggled with the Friends and Family Forums as so much is about our qualifiers (the "the nasty bitter" part of who we are) while I want to see more about our own recovery; however I understand that many are grieving and struggling with the damage from being in these dysfunctional relationships.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by mylifeismine 
I haven't attended any AA meetings yet, but I will next week. I hear
in alanon it helps. Right now, I consider everyone to be my teacher
and I appreciate and give my undivided attention to all who reply to
me. Not trying to push any buttons or devalue another's journey.
I noticed a stark contrast between posts on friends & family &
the aa posts. On one, all the talk is centered on others, on the other,
all the talk is centered on themselves. I found it to be very
unsettling .......
in alanon it helps. Right now, I consider everyone to be my teacher
and I appreciate and give my undivided attention to all who reply to
me. Not trying to push any buttons or devalue another's journey.
I noticed a stark contrast between posts on friends & family &
the aa posts. On one, all the talk is centered on others, on the other,
all the talk is centered on themselves. I found it to be very
unsettling .......
It was very helpful to me to hear the other side. If you haven't been to one yet I highly recommend it. I'm actually thinking of going to another.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
think about how THIS forum might look to the alcoholic.....we can collectively sound like a bitter nasty bunch.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Being a member of AA who has worked the steps (including step 9) I often go on the Alcoholic / Newcomers / 12 step forums here on the SoberRecovery forums, and there is more often than not some reference to harms that people have done, and the shame and remorse they feel for their actions / behaviour. There are also lots of posts where the focus is on recovery (this is a recovery forum after all). Was it a different forum you were 'trolling'?
I think sometimes we see what we want to see, and unfortunately, sometimes if we keep looking for the thing that has hurt us in the past then we will see it, even if only in implication. The people on the sober-recovery forum are generally looking to recover, or to strengthen their recovery, and are trying to beat an addiction, mend their ways and change their behaviour. That is what many refer to as 'living in the solution'. Living in the problem (going over and over past incidents and mistakes rather than learn from them and move on) is not 'recovery'. Details of harms, etc. are dealt with in a very specific way in AA - and that is not by splashing the details around on the internet.
I suppose it boils down to whether you want the addict that you're a friend or family or to suffer or to recover. (I personally believe that wanting them to suffer is basically a resentment at work, and resentments are like drinking poison ourselves and expecting the other person to die.)
What did you hope to get out of 'trolling' the forum? Peace of mind? Happiness? Personal growth and recovery? Seems to me that it just added fuel to the flames of a burning resentment. Why do that to yourself?
I think sometimes we see what we want to see, and unfortunately, sometimes if we keep looking for the thing that has hurt us in the past then we will see it, even if only in implication. The people on the sober-recovery forum are generally looking to recover, or to strengthen their recovery, and are trying to beat an addiction, mend their ways and change their behaviour. That is what many refer to as 'living in the solution'. Living in the problem (going over and over past incidents and mistakes rather than learn from them and move on) is not 'recovery'. Details of harms, etc. are dealt with in a very specific way in AA - and that is not by splashing the details around on the internet.
I suppose it boils down to whether you want the addict that you're a friend or family or to suffer or to recover. (I personally believe that wanting them to suffer is basically a resentment at work, and resentments are like drinking poison ourselves and expecting the other person to die.)
What did you hope to get out of 'trolling' the forum? Peace of mind? Happiness? Personal growth and recovery? Seems to me that it just added fuel to the flames of a burning resentment. Why do that to yourself?
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
My experience is a bit different. I have found that any given meeting, of any given program, is very unique based on the individuals who happen to show up on a given day.... and where they are in their own journey of recovery. Focusing on what other people in other meetings _should_ be doing, _could_ be doing, is just a symptom of my own addiction to somebody elses potential.
I have been to many meetings of many different programs, and each one is unique. At one extreme there is the "Soccer Mom" meeting of AA, where most of the talk after the meet is about how to help their children overcome the damage done by the alcoholism of the mom's in the meeting. They don't talk about their "ammends" _during_ the meeting, but they do afterwards. At another extreme is a biker meet where almost all of the guys have never had a family, or any kind of life outside of various jails.
If you want to hear about pain check out a meeting of ISA "heavies", these are people who were physically tortured as children and were left permanently disabled by their "qualifier". My personal opinion is that to get an understanding of just how difficult it can be to overcome an addiction try a meeting of OA, these folks must consume their "drug" 3 times a day or die. How they can keep their sanity is beyond me.
I've been to a meet held in a park where almost everyone has over _50_ years clean and sober. It was more like a picnic cuz they brought their kids and grandkids and dogs and food and music and it was just a fun party.
I have also been to meets where I don't care to return. There is one that I will never forget, I was "propositioned" _three_ times before the meet even started, and it was a meet for families, not addicts.
My experience is that it does _not_ matter which program a person goes to, or how long they have been going, or what "step" they are working on. The only thing that matters is the _actions_ of the specific person. It is only when I stay away from my own "addiction" to somebody elses potential, that I have a chance of reaching _my_ potential.
Mike
I have been to many meetings of many different programs, and each one is unique. At one extreme there is the "Soccer Mom" meeting of AA, where most of the talk after the meet is about how to help their children overcome the damage done by the alcoholism of the mom's in the meeting. They don't talk about their "ammends" _during_ the meeting, but they do afterwards. At another extreme is a biker meet where almost all of the guys have never had a family, or any kind of life outside of various jails.
If you want to hear about pain check out a meeting of ISA "heavies", these are people who were physically tortured as children and were left permanently disabled by their "qualifier". My personal opinion is that to get an understanding of just how difficult it can be to overcome an addiction try a meeting of OA, these folks must consume their "drug" 3 times a day or die. How they can keep their sanity is beyond me.
I've been to a meet held in a park where almost everyone has over _50_ years clean and sober. It was more like a picnic cuz they brought their kids and grandkids and dogs and food and music and it was just a fun party.
I have also been to meets where I don't care to return. There is one that I will never forget, I was "propositioned" _three_ times before the meet even started, and it was a meet for families, not addicts.
My experience is that it does _not_ matter which program a person goes to, or how long they have been going, or what "step" they are working on. The only thing that matters is the _actions_ of the specific person. It is only when I stay away from my own "addiction" to somebody elses potential, that I have a chance of reaching _my_ potential.
Mike
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 872
The OP must be referring to another site other than SR.
AA is a tiny part of this site, the only posts by Alcoholics in Recovery,who have any length of sobriety are on the 12step forum.AA is not a part of the newcomers forum at all.
Making amends to others does not come until steps 8and9.If someone is new to recovery,they are of course concentrating on their sobriety,not on everyone else in their life.
I am an Alcoholic and I had an Alcoholic Mother who never got sober.
I suggest to the OP that they attend an AA meeting,the ones I attend have a lot of input about the others we have hurt on our journey in Alcoholism.
AA is a tiny part of this site, the only posts by Alcoholics in Recovery,who have any length of sobriety are on the 12step forum.AA is not a part of the newcomers forum at all.
Making amends to others does not come until steps 8and9.If someone is new to recovery,they are of course concentrating on their sobriety,not on everyone else in their life.
I am an Alcoholic and I had an Alcoholic Mother who never got sober.
I suggest to the OP that they attend an AA meeting,the ones I attend have a lot of input about the others we have hurt on our journey in Alcoholism.
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Fort Worth TX
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Beccybean
Being a member of AA who has worked the steps (including step 9) I often go on the Alcoholic / Newcomers / 12 step forums here on the SoberRecovery forums, and there is more often than not some reference to harms that people have done, and the shame and remorse they feel for their actions / behaviour. There are also lots of posts where the focus is on recovery (this is a recovery forum after all). Was it a different forum you were 'trolling'?
I think sometimes we see what we want to see, and unfortunately, sometimes if we keep looking for the thing that has hurt us in the past then we will see it, even if only in implication. The people on the sober-recovery forum are generally looking to recover, or to strengthen their recovery, and are trying to beat an addiction, mend their ways and change their behaviour. That is what many refer to as 'living in the solution'. Living in the problem (going over and over past incidents and mistakes rather than learn from them and move on) is not 'recovery'. Details of harms, etc. are dealt with in a very specific way in AA - and that is not by splashing the details around on the internet.
I suppose it boils down to whether you want the addict that you're a friend or family or to suffer or to recover. (I personally believe that wanting them to suffer is basically a resentment at work, and resentments are like drinking poison ourselves and expecting the other person to die.)
What did you hope to get out of 'trolling' the forum? Peace of mind? Happiness? Personal growth and recovery? Seems to me that it just added fuel to the flames of a burning resentment. Why do that to yourself?
I think sometimes we see what we want to see, and unfortunately, sometimes if we keep looking for the thing that has hurt us in the past then we will see it, even if only in implication. The people on the sober-recovery forum are generally looking to recover, or to strengthen their recovery, and are trying to beat an addiction, mend their ways and change their behaviour. That is what many refer to as 'living in the solution'. Living in the problem (going over and over past incidents and mistakes rather than learn from them and move on) is not 'recovery'. Details of harms, etc. are dealt with in a very specific way in AA - and that is not by splashing the details around on the internet.
I suppose it boils down to whether you want the addict that you're a friend or family or to suffer or to recover. (I personally believe that wanting them to suffer is basically a resentment at work, and resentments are like drinking poison ourselves and expecting the other person to die.)
What did you hope to get out of 'trolling' the forum? Peace of mind? Happiness? Personal growth and recovery? Seems to me that it just added fuel to the flames of a burning resentment. Why do that to yourself?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Thanks for all the replies. Someone kindly warned me after
the fact this type of post has appeared before on this forum & turned ugly. I am on this journey & have read your posts & appreciate the insight.
Again, never meant to push buttons.
I will take what is useful and leave the rest as the motto goes.
the fact this type of post has appeared before on this forum & turned ugly. I am on this journey & have read your posts & appreciate the insight.
Again, never meant to push buttons.
I will take what is useful and leave the rest as the motto goes.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,003
Man oh man, I was in this spot for a long time. >>>>"I suppose it boils down to whether you want the addict that you're a friend or family or to suffer or to recover. (I personally believe that wanting them to suffer is basically a resentment at work, and resentments are like drinking poison ourselves and expecting the other person to die.)" It took me a long time to get past my own pain and see the pain of my qualifier.
I liked what mike said too: addiction to someone else's "potential". Anytime I hear/sense an attachment of mine to some other's action, I know I'm headed for trouble.
I liked what mike said too: addiction to someone else's "potential". Anytime I hear/sense an attachment of mine to some other's action, I know I'm headed for trouble.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by mylifeismine
... Someone kindly warned me after
the fact this type of post has appeared before on this forum & turned ugly. ....
the fact this type of post has appeared before on this forum & turned ugly. ....
If things get ugly us Moderators will take care of it. You just focus on _your_ needs and leave the uglies to us
Mike
Moderator, SR
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: California, USA
Posts: 625
I appreciate your perspective, Mylife, and this is an important conversation. My personal experience as a RA is being outcast as damaged and not worthy. I do read the family section of SR, perhaps looking for my own answers, and my heart fills for the loved ones who are hurting and/or are in danger. I agree often with the "get out now" advice, and have admiration for the strength of parents who deal with drugs/alcohol with young people.
Being alone and betrayed is not easy whichever side of addiction one is on.
Being alone and betrayed is not easy whichever side of addiction one is on.
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
I'm a recovering alcoholic and I read over here too because I also have codependency issues and I'm trying to keep myself broken up with my most recent unhealthy boyfriend.
I don't take offense to the sentiment I just think it bears remarking that the type of alcoholic/addict that is usually discussed over here is a very specific intersection of an abusive personality AND substance abuse. I've dated several men like the ones discussed here, and only one of them actually was an alcoholic/addict. And I'm the A in my relationships, but my problem behavior is a lot more similar to yours (trying too hard to fix things, being needy, over-monitoring, losing my sense of self, controlling) than it is to the As you describe. I've never cheated, called anyone names, disappeared, refused to talk, etc etc. And I never sought out relationships to prop me up... the worse I got, the more I avoided them, trying to keep the mess to myself.
Which is not to say I haven't hurt anyone (see: problem behavior above), it's just that not all alcoholics have the kind of out and out destructive behavior towards their loved ones that a lot of people here have experienced. I would guess that in general that type of person -- someone at the particularly brutal intersection of abusive and alcoholic -- if they do manage to get sober, is less likely to spend their time in a recovery forum or AA meeting trying to self-examine and become a better person. A lot of the rest of us live in the middle of different intersections.
I don't take offense to the sentiment I just think it bears remarking that the type of alcoholic/addict that is usually discussed over here is a very specific intersection of an abusive personality AND substance abuse. I've dated several men like the ones discussed here, and only one of them actually was an alcoholic/addict. And I'm the A in my relationships, but my problem behavior is a lot more similar to yours (trying too hard to fix things, being needy, over-monitoring, losing my sense of self, controlling) than it is to the As you describe. I've never cheated, called anyone names, disappeared, refused to talk, etc etc. And I never sought out relationships to prop me up... the worse I got, the more I avoided them, trying to keep the mess to myself.
Which is not to say I haven't hurt anyone (see: problem behavior above), it's just that not all alcoholics have the kind of out and out destructive behavior towards their loved ones that a lot of people here have experienced. I would guess that in general that type of person -- someone at the particularly brutal intersection of abusive and alcoholic -- if they do manage to get sober, is less likely to spend their time in a recovery forum or AA meeting trying to self-examine and become a better person. A lot of the rest of us live in the middle of different intersections.
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes
My experience is a bit different. I have found that any given meeting, of any given program, is very unique based on the individuals who happen to show up on a given day.... and where they are in their own journey of recovery. Focusing on what other people in other meetings _should_ be doing, _could_ be doing, is just a symptom of my own addiction to somebody elses potential.
I have been to many meetings of many different programs, and each one is unique. At one extreme there is the "Soccer Mom" meeting of AA, where most of the talk after the meet is about how to help their children overcome the damage done by the alcoholism of the mom's in the meeting. They don't talk about their "ammends" _during_ the meeting, but they do afterwards. At another extreme is a biker meet where almost all of the guys have never had a family, or any kind of life outside of various jails.
If you want to hear about pain check out a meeting of ISA "heavies", these are people who were physically tortured as children and were left permanently disabled by their "qualifier". My personal opinion is that to get an understanding of just how difficult it can be to overcome an addiction try a meeting of OA, these folks must consume their "drug" 3 times a day or die. How they can keep their sanity is beyond me.
I've been to a meet held in a park where almost everyone has over _50_ years clean and sober. It was more like a picnic cuz they brought their kids and grandkids and dogs and food and music and it was just a fun party.
I have also been to meets where I don't care to return. There is one that I will never forget, I was "propositioned" _three_ times before the meet even started, and it was a meet for families, not addicts.
My experience is that it does _not_ matter which program a person goes to, or how long they have been going, or what "step" they are working on. The only thing that matters is the _actions_ of the specific person. It is only when I stay away from my own "addiction" to somebody elses potential, that I have a chance of reaching _my_ potential.
Mike
I have been to many meetings of many different programs, and each one is unique. At one extreme there is the "Soccer Mom" meeting of AA, where most of the talk after the meet is about how to help their children overcome the damage done by the alcoholism of the mom's in the meeting. They don't talk about their "ammends" _during_ the meeting, but they do afterwards. At another extreme is a biker meet where almost all of the guys have never had a family, or any kind of life outside of various jails.
If you want to hear about pain check out a meeting of ISA "heavies", these are people who were physically tortured as children and were left permanently disabled by their "qualifier". My personal opinion is that to get an understanding of just how difficult it can be to overcome an addiction try a meeting of OA, these folks must consume their "drug" 3 times a day or die. How they can keep their sanity is beyond me.
I've been to a meet held in a park where almost everyone has over _50_ years clean and sober. It was more like a picnic cuz they brought their kids and grandkids and dogs and food and music and it was just a fun party.
I have also been to meets where I don't care to return. There is one that I will never forget, I was "propositioned" _three_ times before the meet even started, and it was a meet for families, not addicts.
My experience is that it does _not_ matter which program a person goes to, or how long they have been going, or what "step" they are working on. The only thing that matters is the _actions_ of the specific person. It is only when I stay away from my own "addiction" to somebody elses potential, that I have a chance of reaching _my_ potential.
Mike
What does ISA stand for? This sounds rough. The human suffering out there is just overwhelming. It sure puts my own in perspective.
I have thought the same thing about the OAs as they can never completely leave their drug.
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