Codependent No More
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Codependent No More
I am currently reading Melody Beattie's "Codependent No More," doing the exercises, and will also be doing the "Codependent No More" workbook.
I am trying to be less controlling of my RAbf - and not have my happiness and ability to relax tied to his sobriety.
He is on a work trip and so was gone when I purchased the book. I am still undecided if it is something that I will keep for myself (read it in the bathroom before I take a shower, read it when he is gone, etc) or if it will be something I keep by my bedside and read.
For those of you who have read it, what did you do? Did you let your significant other (or whatever is applicable) know you were reading it? I just worry about making him feel guilty.
Also, did you get something out of it? I am only a few chapters in but I already see so many of my actions that are from my codependency. Thank you!
I am trying to be less controlling of my RAbf - and not have my happiness and ability to relax tied to his sobriety.
He is on a work trip and so was gone when I purchased the book. I am still undecided if it is something that I will keep for myself (read it in the bathroom before I take a shower, read it when he is gone, etc) or if it will be something I keep by my bedside and read.
For those of you who have read it, what did you do? Did you let your significant other (or whatever is applicable) know you were reading it? I just worry about making him feel guilty.
Also, did you get something out of it? I am only a few chapters in but I already see so many of my actions that are from my codependency. Thank you!
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: The South
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I have it too and I thought the first chapter was written after secretly observing me...oops written in the 1980s....
I keep it along with my Al-Anon books on a stack by the partner desk my wife--AKA "qualifier"--share. Not hidden, but not in your face either.
I keep it along with my Al-Anon books on a stack by the partner desk my wife--AKA "qualifier"--share. Not hidden, but not in your face either.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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I was reading it in secret at first, but once by abf told me he wanted to go to treatment, I told him I had been reading the book and other alanon literature. It did not upset him at all. He was pleased to see I was willing to do the work on myself, while he was going to get help. I have found this book to be a very good starting point for me. I identified with some, but not all of it. I took out of it alot of insight, but it really just scratched the surface. It was a good motivator though, for me to see it was time for a therapist. Good for you for taking the steps to better yourself and your situation 🐢
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
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I did the same thing with my books in the beginning. The ones I was reading as I began my climb out of denial were actually from Alanon, Courage to Change. He eventually saw them and asked about them. This really was the beginning of change in our relationship -- the gig was up and I was about to be the change. When he saw my book Codependent No More book later down the line, he was annoyed by it because in his alcoholic mind, shouldn't two married people be codependent? lol
They don't like to see you pull the scales off your eyes and seek help for yourself, it makes them very uncomfortable because its shining a light in their dark place, even if you never say anything to them about their addiction and the behavior associated with it, just the reading material itself presents a problem. As long as no one is saying anything or doing anything like reading material to help oneself learn to manage living in the conditions they've created, they can go about their day in a stupor as if no one is wise to what they are doing.
I think ultimately, its up to you if you leave your book where you'd normally leave a book you're reading. The chances are it may never be seen, but if it is, guarantee it will be uncomfortable to the A in your life w/o you saying a word.
They don't like to see you pull the scales off your eyes and seek help for yourself, it makes them very uncomfortable because its shining a light in their dark place, even if you never say anything to them about their addiction and the behavior associated with it, just the reading material itself presents a problem. As long as no one is saying anything or doing anything like reading material to help oneself learn to manage living in the conditions they've created, they can go about their day in a stupor as if no one is wise to what they are doing.
I think ultimately, its up to you if you leave your book where you'd normally leave a book you're reading. The chances are it may never be seen, but if it is, guarantee it will be uncomfortable to the A in your life w/o you saying a word.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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I just worry about making him feel guilty.
as you will learn in CNM is that YOU can't MAKE him feel ANYTHING. nothing you do or do not do can CAUSE a specific reaction in him. what he thinks, what he feels, how he responds all belong to HIM.
this book is for YOU. about you. not him. there is no diabolical plot in chapter 7 about how to change HIM. LOL this is your chance to start the journey of getting to know you, how you tick, what YOU think and how to be less dependent upon him for your own sense of well being.
as you will learn in CNM is that YOU can't MAKE him feel ANYTHING. nothing you do or do not do can CAUSE a specific reaction in him. what he thinks, what he feels, how he responds all belong to HIM.
this book is for YOU. about you. not him. there is no diabolical plot in chapter 7 about how to change HIM. LOL this is your chance to start the journey of getting to know you, how you tick, what YOU think and how to be less dependent upon him for your own sense of well being.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Brightly....you have nothing to feel guilty about or ashamed of by for trying to help yourself or improving yourself......
I take that as a sign of self esteem and strength....and bravery to be willing to do self-evaluation!
His reaction to whatever you read is his own problem to worry about....
I am wondering if he is in a program of recovery or just white-knuckling it......
dandylion
I take that as a sign of self esteem and strength....and bravery to be willing to do self-evaluation!
His reaction to whatever you read is his own problem to worry about....
I am wondering if he is in a program of recovery or just white-knuckling it......
dandylion
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Thank you all for your replies! I think he would probably be fine with me reading it - I am worried about making him feel guilty as I mentioned but as anvilheadII said, I can't make him feel or do anything (which I should know by now!).
dandylion asked about his recovery program - he has been attending AA meetings weekly and seems to be doing well. He had been sober for almost 5 years and relapsed last Christmas (2014) and then 2015 was a really hard year for his recovery. He now has about 6 months sober, but I found chewing tobacco in his bag the other day and he doesn't chew or smoke or anything. I think he was doing it for either the buzz, or maybe the thrill of having a secret?? I don't know. But it made me get all stressed out (is he lying about anything else? what else is he using? whats next once he gets bored of this) so I knew I had to do something, because I nearly drove myself crazy last year worrying about his relapse! I did some research online and decided to give CNM a chance.
Thanks again for all of your insight! This is my first question on this site and it almost makes me cry happy tears that I have so many people to bounce this off!
dandylion asked about his recovery program - he has been attending AA meetings weekly and seems to be doing well. He had been sober for almost 5 years and relapsed last Christmas (2014) and then 2015 was a really hard year for his recovery. He now has about 6 months sober, but I found chewing tobacco in his bag the other day and he doesn't chew or smoke or anything. I think he was doing it for either the buzz, or maybe the thrill of having a secret?? I don't know. But it made me get all stressed out (is he lying about anything else? what else is he using? whats next once he gets bored of this) so I knew I had to do something, because I nearly drove myself crazy last year worrying about his relapse! I did some research online and decided to give CNM a chance.
Thanks again for all of your insight! This is my first question on this site and it almost makes me cry happy tears that I have so many people to bounce this off!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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Maybe he was holding the chewing tobacco for a friend? I can't imagine not tasting it on him if he was chewing. Did you ask him about it? Or did you not have any business being in his bag? (Which is a whole other issue...)
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Hi Lexie - we were on a weekend trip and I got into his bag to hang up some of his shirts (we are very open with everything - each others drawers, bags, phones, whatever) and found it and asked him about it. He said he'd been chewing since the beginning of the year. He felt really bad about it and it ruined the first night of our trip, he threw it away and said he wouldn't do it anymore, he didn't know why he started.
Yea I never noticed it when we kissed or anything, I don't think he did it more than once a day (probably at work) because he said it made him kind of sick. Also if I did notice anything off, I'm not sure I'd have been able to place that it was chewing tobacco since I don't really have any experience with it.
Yea I never noticed it when we kissed or anything, I don't think he did it more than once a day (probably at work) because he said it made him kind of sick. Also if I did notice anything off, I'm not sure I'd have been able to place that it was chewing tobacco since I don't really have any experience with it.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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My guess is he's looking for a substitute--something to take his mind off drinking or give him some other kind of little "charge"--chewing tobacco strikes me as a rather yucky substitute. I drink a lot of coffee/tea now (sober seven years), I still "vape" (I was a heavy smoker most of my life), and whatever damage caffeine and nicotine do to me is nothing compared to drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes.
Some alcoholics crave sweets in early recovery, but some get obsessed with healthier pursuits--working out or becoming nutrition freaks.
Some alcoholics crave sweets in early recovery, but some get obsessed with healthier pursuits--working out or becoming nutrition freaks.
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Thanks Lexie! Yea I think you are spot on with him looking for a substitute, now that you mention it. My sister keeps insisting he should try weed (she says he needs to have somethingto do for fun) but I know he is not someone who can do anything in moderation.
He also drinks a lot of coffee and goes thru a ton of Diet Dr Pepper, and didn't really like sweets till he got sober! : )
Do you think I should be worried about him hiding it from me? Am I reading too much into that? I mean, I think he knew that I definitely wouldn't be pleased that he started chewing so thats kind of an obvious reason as to why he wouldn't divulge that info to me.
He also drinks a lot of coffee and goes thru a ton of Diet Dr Pepper, and didn't really like sweets till he got sober! : )
Do you think I should be worried about him hiding it from me? Am I reading too much into that? I mean, I think he knew that I definitely wouldn't be pleased that he started chewing so thats kind of an obvious reason as to why he wouldn't divulge that info to me.
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Well, YOU were talking about hiding your reading material from him, right? So partners do have little "secrets" from each other--the chewing didn't bother you till you found out about it, right?
As gross as chewing tobacco is (and as unhealthy as it is), it's not something that is going to alter his personality. That's really his business, not yours, at least unless/until it affects you in some way. He's not going to spend the grocery money on chewing tobacco, nor is he going to get arrested for it. His business.
Weed is a different story--anything that is substantially mind-altering is dangerous for addicts of any stripe. I don't know any alcoholics (and I've known hundreds in my life) who have successfully stayed sober long-term while using marijuana.
As gross as chewing tobacco is (and as unhealthy as it is), it's not something that is going to alter his personality. That's really his business, not yours, at least unless/until it affects you in some way. He's not going to spend the grocery money on chewing tobacco, nor is he going to get arrested for it. His business.
Weed is a different story--anything that is substantially mind-altering is dangerous for addicts of any stripe. I don't know any alcoholics (and I've known hundreds in my life) who have successfully stayed sober long-term while using marijuana.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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my last husband with tons of years clean and sober took up cigar smoking.......blech. we were already having "problems" and i was feeling quite distant and if i didn't know better i'd think he chose the stinkiest grossest habit ever to push me further away.
no idea if that was his plan.....or what his motives were. but i didn't have to hide MY cigarette smoking anymore!
hopefully by staying focused on you, your reading, and your own sense of self, the desire to check up on him 24/7 will diminish. trust me, it can be HARD to stay on our side of the street, and i've certainly wandered out into traffic myself a time or two! the point is to keep returning to OUR safe place, our own hunk of sidewalk. learning new behaviors, stopping ourselves from engaging in harmful behaviors is a bit like tethering ourselves to a zippy string......we can only go so far before the tether retracts and pulls us back.
no idea if that was his plan.....or what his motives were. but i didn't have to hide MY cigarette smoking anymore!
hopefully by staying focused on you, your reading, and your own sense of self, the desire to check up on him 24/7 will diminish. trust me, it can be HARD to stay on our side of the street, and i've certainly wandered out into traffic myself a time or two! the point is to keep returning to OUR safe place, our own hunk of sidewalk. learning new behaviors, stopping ourselves from engaging in harmful behaviors is a bit like tethering ourselves to a zippy string......we can only go so far before the tether retracts and pulls us back.
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I don't hide my reading either - I feel like if my getting healthy is a threat to my relationship then I have bigger issues to deal with there. That said - I can understand someone in an abusive relationship not wanting to trip their abuser's trigger in this way - totally different circumstances with that additional factor.
I don't think the tobacco use is an especially bright red flag, but it would get my attention because (in MY case) it would show a continuing habit/behavior of covering up/lying... no matter how minor it is. It's slippery slope when a person builds a habit out of minimizing or hiding & my RAH was incredibly talented at it.... like the frog in the pot of hot water he just continually adjusted to accept his own growing lies. That's the kind of stuff he spent 2 years doing while "in recovery" until it all fell apart like a house of cards when he relapsed.... and I was thunderstruck at the awareness that he'd been sober but not recovering that entire time.... he'd been trying to make his recovery fit into his lifestyle instead of humbling himself to adopt a new lifestyle/thought process and changing himself.
I would be vigilant for "more to be revealed"..... does he show this same behavior in other ways or continue to increase this specific thing, etc, but not make a big issue out of this particular incident.
^^That's me talking NOW - Me "then", in my early recovery days, would've had a snitfit, passive-aggressively started an argument (because my fear would have immediately triggered & I would be focusing on WHAT ELSE I was missing right underneath my nose & future-tripping over it....) that would have blown up into a raging fight which would take us in 100 directions other than the originally upsetting find = spinning in circles, fighting about nothing, getting nowhere except angry.
I don't think the tobacco use is an especially bright red flag, but it would get my attention because (in MY case) it would show a continuing habit/behavior of covering up/lying... no matter how minor it is. It's slippery slope when a person builds a habit out of minimizing or hiding & my RAH was incredibly talented at it.... like the frog in the pot of hot water he just continually adjusted to accept his own growing lies. That's the kind of stuff he spent 2 years doing while "in recovery" until it all fell apart like a house of cards when he relapsed.... and I was thunderstruck at the awareness that he'd been sober but not recovering that entire time.... he'd been trying to make his recovery fit into his lifestyle instead of humbling himself to adopt a new lifestyle/thought process and changing himself.
I would be vigilant for "more to be revealed"..... does he show this same behavior in other ways or continue to increase this specific thing, etc, but not make a big issue out of this particular incident.
^^That's me talking NOW - Me "then", in my early recovery days, would've had a snitfit, passive-aggressively started an argument (because my fear would have immediately triggered & I would be focusing on WHAT ELSE I was missing right underneath my nose & future-tripping over it....) that would have blown up into a raging fight which would take us in 100 directions other than the originally upsetting find = spinning in circles, fighting about nothing, getting nowhere except angry.
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I'd definitely be concerned about the hiding/lying of the tobacco. That is the beginning, the very first red flag that I should have seen nearly 20 years ago. XAH said "hey, we should quit smoking" and I did. He pretended to. We were on a strict budget in those days and I noticed money missing from the bank accounts. When I asked about it, I got a snide answer and stopped asking. Then I found a cigarette butt in the house. He denied it up one side and down the other. Finally he admitted it. This pattern of hiding his smoking, lying about it, getting caught, claiming to quit, and then repeating continued right up until our divorce and his move out. He lied about his drinking. He chaired his home AA group for a year, still drinking. He lied about things he had no reason to lie about, even, and I am still wondering about what that really meant/was.
Long, long story short, I would definitely take this as a red flag. It is showing you that he is still hiding, still lying, and is NOT ready to make a real, deep-down change. Maybe it's OK to not make a big deal of this one incident, but in your shoes, I would be keeping my eyes peeled for ANY similar goings on, ANY hint of dishonesty in another area.
I listened to years and years of lies, and I wish, do I ever wish, that I'd had the clarity and courage to confront the situation long ago.
Long, long story short, I would definitely take this as a red flag. It is showing you that he is still hiding, still lying, and is NOT ready to make a real, deep-down change. Maybe it's OK to not make a big deal of this one incident, but in your shoes, I would be keeping my eyes peeled for ANY similar goings on, ANY hint of dishonesty in another area.
I listened to years and years of lies, and I wish, do I ever wish, that I'd had the clarity and courage to confront the situation long ago.
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Honeypig, every time you tell your story, I am more and more amazed that you were ever a smoker. I just cannot picture it!
Anyhoo, regarding chewing tobacco, my STBXAH has always been a huge user of chewing tobacco. And he always bought brands and types that either had mint flavoring in it, or were not as strong. Honestly, in 7 years together, I never once kissed him and thought "ew, he just spit out a wad of chew." I guess that's my way of saying that it is the kind of habit you can absolutely hide.
If it were me in your situation, I would not work to actively hide your reading material, but there probably also isn't a reason to flaunt it, either. Both approaches seem designed to control his reaction. I say just put it where you're comfortable, and carry on.
Anyhoo, regarding chewing tobacco, my STBXAH has always been a huge user of chewing tobacco. And he always bought brands and types that either had mint flavoring in it, or were not as strong. Honestly, in 7 years together, I never once kissed him and thought "ew, he just spit out a wad of chew." I guess that's my way of saying that it is the kind of habit you can absolutely hide.
If it were me in your situation, I would not work to actively hide your reading material, but there probably also isn't a reason to flaunt it, either. Both approaches seem designed to control his reaction. I say just put it where you're comfortable, and carry on.
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Thank you all! Yes hiding the chew was the red flag for me, as FireSpirit said with her husband who was sober but not recovering - we had a similar situation before he relapsed last year. He was definitely white knuckling it, I just didn't realize it, so now I am hyper-aware of any signs of that.
I don't think I'll hide the book either - he is very supportive of whatever I need to do, I am not sure why I thought this would be any different than going to Al Anon meetings.
I don't think I'll hide the book either - he is very supportive of whatever I need to do, I am not sure why I thought this would be any different than going to Al Anon meetings.
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