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xAH filed contempt motion against me

Old 02-08-2016, 06:42 PM
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The child support issue I was fine letting go... I did not want to fight it and would have preferred and still would prefer to survive on my income alone and not have to deal with him in any way or rely on him in any way...

But as Lexie so aptly put it, I am going to be 'cooling my heels' waiting on a contempt hearing (I received the motion but no notice of a hearing date yet) so I will be asking the division of child support services to do what they do best-- go after his sorry arrears self and he can have his wages garnished...

I did not want to give him ammunition to call me greedy or money hungry (which I am not) so somehow I felt I was better off to just provide for the kids myself... But that is not sensible...
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by amy55 View Post
I wanted to say one other thing. A lot of people think that you stay in an abusive relationship because you are weak. I fink that ridiculous. You were strong enough to put up with many things, and you were also strong enough to escape safely.

You aren't weak, you are one of the strongest people that I know.

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Ditto for you! Thanks!
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:59 PM
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OK, let's talk about the child support. Why would you let him get away with this?
He has a job, get it garnished. Whether he pays CS or not has nothing to do with visitation or anything about that.

States do go after people not paying CS. If it is being monitored by the state, meaning they are garnishing his check or he has to send money in to them, it's the better way to go. If your ex gets pulled over for a dui, they will check and if he is behind in CS, then his a$$ gets thrown in jail.

It's no longer a time to play nice. He is threatening. He wants to keep going after you. (We all know the blame game here). He wants you to "fold", and you were doing that because you still had the mindset of when you were married to him.

Ask me how I know, or ask anyone here, why they know.

It took me 4 years to figure out how to deal with my bully (abuser).

All circumstances may not be the same, and that is OK. We now have that legal paper which is called a divorce decree, and parenting thingy (I didn't have one of those, my kids were older), but our voice can now be heard.

I think you are terrific, and I think you are really doing great.

(((((((hugs))))))
amy
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:18 PM
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No ma'am you are NOT weak.

Go after that child support. I really, really understand your thought process here, but the reality is that the wider the berth he has been given, the greater advantage he has taken. You are still walking on eggshells.........time to stop.

I'd put a noose on him so tight for everything he has done he can't breathe. File contempt for each and every thing you can. You should be able to file with your state for the child support without having to hire an attorney - they should assign one to you.

Take your power back.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:31 PM
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WTBH-my ex actually threatened me while we were married numerous times-while pregnant with our second child nonetheless. The morning after raping me while 7 months pregnant I told him I was going to file for divorce-he looked at me with squinted evil eyes and told me " yeah, you said you sent away for those last week. Where are they?! ( insert evil grin)" followed up with looking me squarely in the eyes with his drubken evil devil black eyes "you don't have the balls to divirce me, bitch". Yep. That is HIM. How dare I leave him. His ego and his pride bruised to the core-how dare I tell the truth about him. Disgusting pigs-they're lower than the lowest animal on earth. Trust me-I do know how you feel-I have been bullied, slandered and lied about for years-by him and his band of flying monkeys-his friends and family-some family I used to love and trust but in the end I knew none of them would believe the truth about their golden boy and what a truly evil horrid person he was. My ex HAS abused our children just to get back at me. It's been awful to see the pain and panic and anxiety and anger in my oldest-and he walks around without a care in the world. Does NOT care about abusing his own kids. I get it. I do, but YOU have to do whatever it takes to keep them safe. Momma, God entrusted those kiddos to you. You are their warrior, their voice and their hope. Cut off all communication and document all you can. Gloves off and fight this evil bastard with the truth.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:37 PM
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Red, I totally agree with you about the child support.

I always think of that indemnification clause where the other person would be responsible for paying your atty bill.

I would say to send at least 2 emails to document that you are trying to be amicable about it and to send you the CS or make payments for arrears, and just give him enough rope to hang himself in court. 1 notice will not do this. Multiple notices evenly spaced will.

It would show that you are trying to be cooperative, while other person is not. In WTBH case, I think anything she sends him will be ridiculed, and ignored. The better for her.

War is on, calm heads pervail.

No more explaining anything. Action. (or appearing inaction, while action and saving emails goes on)

Must give enough rope for someone to hang themselves with. Meaning, enough request for back child support to take to court and file a motion for contempt of court. I would think 3 requests at intervals of 2 weeks would be sufficient for this.

I don't know how much he owes, but with no one following up on it, I don't know if that is enough for contempt of court. If awarded with that motion for contempt of court, he probably would have to pay your attorney fees also.

Not legal advice, I have no idea about that, but research in your state about child support arrears. You'll be surprised.

Go get him!!!!!!!! You are a really strong person.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:43 PM
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The idea of fighting and fighting back hard and "tightening the noose" and trusting that he will be held accountable and NOT able to retaliate against me, well, it's all foreign to me.

My whole life, even as a kid, when I have tried to fight back, Ive always been pushed back... it is really hard for me to trust and believe that what is right and truthful will prevail...

So, I think history has had a lot of influence over my allowing xAH to get away with so much... and I just thought too that a wide berth might make him leave me be eventually, but clearly not!
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:53 PM
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I've got a slightly different take on it. I wouldn't make any demands of him at all. If there was a court order for him to make support payments, I would simply file. Just as you'd file your income tax return to get a refund.

You don't owe him any polite requests. There is an ORDER he has IGNORED and you are going to ENFORCE IT. The court won't look more "favorably" on you because you asked him for it first, nor will it look unfavorably on you because you didn't. An order is an order.

There is no need to appear "reasonable"--that ship has sailed. As long as you don't ask for more than he was ordered to pay, and you don't go in immediately demanding that he be jailed until he pays up, the court will find your motion MORE than reasonable. If asked why you waited to enforce it, you could simply say that you had hoped if you didn't rock the boat he would abide by the other orders. But since he isn't, you are going to ask for what your children are entitled to. Remember, this is, essentially, THEIR money. You aren't enriching yourself at his expense. They are his children and he is legally obligated to support them.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
The idea of fighting and fighting back hard and "tightening the noose" and trusting that he will be held accountable and NOT able to retaliate against me, well, it's all foreign to me.

My whole life, even as a kid, when I have tried to fight back, Ive always been pushed back... it is really hard for me to trust and believe that what is right and truthful will prevail...

So, I think history has had a lot of influence over my allowing xAH to get away with so much... and I just thought too that a wide berth might make him leave me be eventually, but clearly not!
Hey, I was like this also. I still can't believe my ex backed off of me. I was always a "too nice of a person". I don't know if that can actually be classified as co-dependent. In some ways yes, in some ways no. I didn't really fit that. But, whatever. It doesn't matter. Now is when you take a stand for yourself.

Did you read my standard email to my ex? I think you did. I think you did good on your email to your ex.

Now------- You are going to have a lot of emotions. Anger, Sadness, Raging, Depression, etc....... Please do not email him. We are here for you.

Fighting. I never knew how to do that. You know PTSD is fight or flight reaction. I almost always took the flight. But then I started to fight. That's when I had to leave.

WTBH, you are really a nice person, I respect that. I was also. But the thing is, people walk all over us. It was hard for me to find my voice, but I did. I think since you sent him that email, you might be starting to find your own.

It does get easier, and the good thing is, you have, lots of friends. Please do not make any mistakes of responding to him without fielding it to us. I made that mistake, and it was not pretty.

amy
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:04 PM
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Lexie, Thank you! This is helpful.... I guess while I know there is an order (and it is a final support order and has been final since last Spring) I figured that I was giving him room to argue that I was trying to be "difficult" if I asked for it to be enforced... I thought the court would almost expect me to be ok with him not following it especially since I have kept quiet for a while about his not following it.

I suppose that sounds totally insane of me huh?

Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
I've got a slightly different take on it. I wouldn't make any demands of him at all. If there was a court order for him to make support payments, I would simply file. Just as you'd file your income tax return to get a refund.

You don't owe him any polite requests. There is an ORDER he has IGNORED and you are going to ENFORCE IT. The court won't look more "favorably" on you because you asked him for it first, nor will it look unfavorably on you because you didn't. An order is an order.

There is no need to appear "reasonable"--that ship has sailed. As long as you don't ask for more than he was ordered to pay, and you don't go in immediately demanding that he be jailed until he pays up, the court will find your motion MORE than reasonable. If asked why you waited to enforce it, you could simply say that you had hoped if you didn't rock the boat he would abide by the other orders. But since he isn't, you are going to ask for what your children are entitled to. Remember, this is, essentially, THEIR money. You aren't enriching yourself at his expense. They are his children and he is legally obligated to support them.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:05 PM
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I agree with Lexie. The more you make this "all business," the better. Keep as much emotion out of it as possible. The orders say what they say, and the court wants all parties involved to follow the orders. Period. You don't need to justify, or argue, or defend, or explain yourself to anyone, least of all your AXH. You are so far past the point of giving him one more chance to pay, one more chance to meet your demands and comply with the order. That will only serve to trigger you and ramp up drama.

Imagine yourself in a fancy business suit, with your hair back in a sleek bun, carrying a flawless briefcase and wearing smart glasses. ALL BUSINESS. Feel the desire to text or call or email him? ALL BUSINESS. Imagine saying to his lawyer what you want to say to him. If any of it actually makes sense to say to his lawyer, think about for an hour or two to make sure you're thinking clearly, then send the lawyer an email.

My leadership class included a discussion last week of conscious/unconscious and right/wrong thinking. Most of us are stuck in patterns of unconscious wrong thinking. We grow by turning that into conscious wrong thinking. We become AWARE that our thought processes and reactions are wrong for our serenity, etc. The next step is turning it into conscious right thinking--making concerted efforts to change the way we are thinking about things, and to start approaching them in a healthy manner. Eventually, it becomes unconscious right thinking; totally second nature.

You are clearly moving from "conscious wrong thinking" into "conscious right thinking."
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:15 PM
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I absolutely agree with Lexie here. No need to send him requests to pay child support. I wouldn't give him a heads up anyway. Let him experience the fun of being served. Amy, I get where you are coming from and that would be applicable in a civil case perhaps, but I don't think so here. The Order is the Order, you could file for contempt for child support on one missed payment. They don't care 1 or 30.

Why you haven't IF asked - well just say the truth. He has made your life a living f'ing hell, abusive, and harassing. He has threatened you. You hoped he would leave you alone, you fear his retaliation. Let the Court KNOW why.

My good friend has dealt with a sicko psycho path like this, her child's father. He is a member of world known family with lots of money. Your stories are very similar, and yes he has tortured her with high priced attorneys. But, when he stopped paying child support and then claimed bankrupt the Court didn't toy with his antics AT ALL, or his a$$hole atty. She too had tried to control and manage the situation by not reporting arrears, by not reporting contempt, and his failure to follow the parenting plan. She was sick of court, sick of him, and scared of him. Due to her own financial burden her choice was to file, or go in foreclosure. She was awarded all money owed. She also was able to get a PO. He broke the PO, and she reported - he was jailed. He no longer messes with her AT ALL. She put up with that crap for 8 years.....it only took her following up on what she was told to do instead of fearing that he was somehow, more powerful than the Courts are.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:16 PM
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No, you do not sound insane. You sound like someone who has been subjected to a lot of abuse and made to feel like you're not entitled to insist on your rights.

Wisconsin is right. Imagine yourself in that power suit with that briefcase. Heck, imagine yourself as a GUY, if that helps. Women are socialized to be quiet and polite and deferential. Men (in general) have much less difficulty asking for a raise or insisting that shoddy work be redone, for instance.

Nobody is suggesting you behave like a jerk. It is perfectly possible to be persistent and determined, and at the same time well-mannered and dignified. It takes practice. I found it much easier as a lawyer to insist on things on behalf of my client (the State) than I did to demand things on my own behalf. I've gotten much, much better at it.

And you'll be a great role model for your kids, as well.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by redatlanta View Post
I absolutely agree with Lexie here. No need to send him requests to pay child support. I wouldn't give him a heads up anyway. Let him experience the fun of being served. Amy, I get where you are coming from and that would be applicable in a civil case perhaps, but I don't think so here. The Order is the Order, you could file for contempt for child support on one missed payment. They don't care 1 or 30.

Why you haven't IF asked - well just say the truth. He has made your life a living f'ing hell, abusive, and harassing. He has threatened you. You hoped he would leave you alone, you fear his retaliation. Let the Court KNOW why.

My good friend has dealt with a sicko psycho path like this, her child's father. He is a member of world known family with lots of money. Your stories are very similar, and yes he has tortured her with high priced attorneys. But, when he stopped paying child support and then claimed bankrupt the Court didn't toy with his antics AT ALL, or his a$$hole atty. She too had tried to control and manage the situation by not reporting arrears, by not reporting contempt, and his failure to follow the parenting plan. She was sick of court, sick of him, and scared of him. Due to her own financial burden her choice was to file, or go in foreclosure. She was awarded all money owed. She also was able to get a PO. He broke the PO, and she reported - he was jailed. He no longer messes with her AT ALL. She put up with that crap for 8 years.....it only took her following up on what she was told to do instead of fearing that he was somehow, more powerful than the Courts are.
Thank you for sharing your friends terrible story and for the advice I NEED to follow, of just letting the court know, and trusting that what is the law WILL be followed...

The whole last 3 years he's been able to slide and sneak his way around laws (child abuse, domestic violence, lying about income etc...) so I lost faith in the system...

But, now that Im calmer and thinking of it, the final USO order was signed by HIS lawyer, filed by HIS lawyer before he withdrew and it's unreal that I have not asked the court to hold him accountable.

Hearing stories of hope like that of your friend, redatlanta, gives me hope. Thank you!
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:23 PM
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In my job I do a lot of court stuff on behalf of kids, and advocate for kids rights in the special ed world. I am always being told Im such a great advocate for families/kids in my role and that I have a good mix of compassion and emotion and logic... Funny how I can do that no problem in work, but in my personal life I feel like I have to be a doormat OR I bottle it all up and then get overly emotional and crazy like I did yesterday with my texts to xAH...

Thanks SO much Lexie, (and everyone!). I would not have made it through today sanely without all of you!



Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
No, you do not sound insane. You sound like someone who has been subjected to a lot of abuse and made to feel like you're not entitled to insist on your rights.

Wisconsin is right. Imagine yourself in that power suit with that briefcase. Heck, imagine yourself as a GUY, if that helps. Women are socialized to be quiet and polite and deferential. Men (in general) have much less difficulty asking for a raise or insisting that shoddy work be redone, for instance.

Nobody is suggesting you behave like a jerk. It is perfectly possible to be persistent and determined, and at the same time well-mannered and dignified. It takes practice. I found it much easier as a lawyer to insist on things on behalf of my client (the State) than I did to demand things on my own behalf. I've gotten much, much better at it.

And you'll be a great role model for your kids, as well.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:27 PM
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WTBH, I know you have felt utterly chewed up and spit out by the legal system. And I certainly acknowledge that there are definitely times when things just go the wrong way. But I also believe that the wheels of justice can turn very slowly, and that by the time you are finished with your AXH, you may feel very differently about the legal system. The karma bus may not run on our schedule, but it never misses a stop.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin View Post
WTBH, I know you have felt utterly chewed up and spit out by the legal system. And I certainly acknowledge that there are definitely times when things just go the wrong way. But I also believe that the wheels of justice can turn very slowly, and that by the time you are finished with your AXH, you may feel very differently about the legal system. The karma bus may not run on our schedule, but it never misses a stop.
Thank you Wisconsin... I guess I need to trust that this post finality for the 3rd time, means that things will go differently when I ask the court to hold him accountable... Sigh... I wish I had more faith in the family court system right now... Maybe one day I will.

I do think that the there needs to be a whole lot of education for judges and clerks about what narcissistic, addict abuse looks like... I don't think anyone sets out to let dirtbags like my ex get away with what he's gotten away with, but the end result is that they do, far too often...

I do think sometimes about finding a way to help others going through what I've been going through in the system for years... I feel like I learned a ton by going through it and wish that I'd had a roadmap for dealing with a narcissist addict in court before I started...
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:40 PM
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Red, you were right about the CS. Most states will go after the person if the CS is 15 days late. I get alimony so was going by that. Best way for the state to go after someone in arrears for CS is wage garnishment. States do not take alimony arrearage seriously, but they do take Child Support seriously.

WTBH, have his wages garnished.

I can see that you are wanted to take action and that is good. Take this threat of his filing a motion for contempt of court seriously, know what he is capable of, and fight back. You are the mama bear. I see your strength growing everyday.

(((((((((hugs))))))))
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
In my job I do a lot of court stuff on behalf of kids, and advocate for kids rights in the special ed world. I am always being told Im such a great advocate for families/kids in my role and that I have a good mix of compassion and emotion and logic... Funny how I can do that no problem in work, but in my personal life I feel like I have to be a doormat OR I bottle it all up and then get overly emotional and crazy like I did yesterday with my texts to xAH...

Thanks SO much Lexie, (and everyone!). I would not have made it through today sanely without all of you!

You are not a "doormat". I also had a job working in Social Security, where I needed a lot of compassion, and I did have that.

What you are dealing with is a different animal.

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Old 02-08-2016, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by amy55 View Post
Red, you were right about the CS. Most states will go after the person if the CS is 15 days late. I get alimony so was going by that. Best way for the state to go after someone in arrears for CS is wage garnishment. States do not take alimony arrearage seriously, but they do take Child Support seriously.

WTBH, have his wages garnished.

I can see that you are wanted to take action and that is good. Take this threat of his filing a motion for contempt of court seriously, know what he is capable of, and fight back. You are the mama bear. I see your strength growing everyday.

(((((((((hugs))))))))
amy
Thanks Oh and he did not threaten to file contempt against me-- he actually DID so. So there WILL be a hearing (unless the judge rejects his motion outright which I suppose could happen). I sort of hope it doesn't. I would like him to face sanctions for filing frivolous motions actually...
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