AlcSis

Hi

Posted here many months ago about setting a very strong boundary with my alcoholic sister. I listened to some wise counsel from members here. And I followed it.

Fast forward; I set and enforced this boundary; she left her abusive Alkie husband (he is one too) and moved within 3 hours of where I live. To an isolated, rural area. Her choice, based mostly on her limited finances.

My issue is that she is now so out-of-sight-incredibly depressed. I mean SEVERELY depressed. She has even admitted it to me.

But she is still drinking. Won't take anti-depressants. Has refused counseling.

She has made a little attempt to make friends in her new neighborhood, but it hasn't worked. Now she says she isn't trying at all. My sister's general disposition now is one of a sad, depressed person; and I think that her general "demeanor" may be keeping people away from wanting to be friends with her.

She has attempted suicide twice. Hospitalized. This is why now I am extra fearful. (and yes, feeling a little guilty)

Yes, it is painful to watch her slowly destroy her life by continuing to drink.

This pain is compounded by knowing how terribly depressed she is. And knowing she wont' do anything about it.

I talk to her once a week. And I can tell her depression is getting worse and worse. She sounded so bad tonight.

I don't know if I should start calling her more often - just to check in with her?

She really doesn't have much to say when I call. Her life is truly very isolated and she is quite limited as to what she can do - because of finances.

I am trying to work on my co-dependency issues, here.....

But I don't want her to feel abandoned by me - that I don't care about her.

And then, again, I know, that sometimes it can be just so difficult for someone to try to get out of a depression. Arrggghhhh.............
Does she need my support? Should I address the elephant in the room?

I have recently started to attend a small, local Alanon meeting.
But I am being careful about details I disclose, because, as I mentioned here months ago, I heard about anonymity being a problem in local meetings. I am keeping my eyes open for a potential sponsor.

In the meantime, I hope it is okay for me to post updates here.
Any insight, ESH would be appreciated.

I'm trying to Let Go and Let God.

But prayers from God's special "people" (SR members) - with real skin help also.

Yes, I fear I am losing her. To depression and alcoholism.
And I can't do a thing about either condition.

Thanks for listening.

happybeingme

Hi, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I am someone who has depression and was also alcoholic. It isn't pretty. But, for me at least I needed to hit my own bottom before I could change. I can't imagine what it is like to watch a loved one struggle.

Living in an isolated location has challenges but your sister has to figure out a way to deal with that. Since she is still drinking she should not be taking any antidepressants. At best they won't work. At worst mixing them with alcohol could kill her. You can't fix her but your weekly phone calls and simply saying I love you are probably as far as you should go.

Kboys

(((Alcsis)))
It's so hard to watch some you love go down this path!
It's great you're going to alanon...
And Im sure it means a lot to her that you are continuing to call her and let her know you are still there for her.. Even if she does not have much to say.
Its probably all you can do at this point for her
At this point unfortunately.
Take care of you as nd hugs to you and your sis!!!

redatlanta

I don't really see that there is anything you can do about this. If your sister isn't willing to help herself, no amount of asking her to (which I am sure has been done a thousand times) will do anything.

Isn't her son in the same town?

bradly22

Maybe you could ask her to schedule a doctor's apointment. Even though she is in a rural area, there has to be some medical access. Some anti depressants and naltrexone might be able to help her out on both fronts.

hopeful4

Of course you can post here! That is what the forum is for. You are not alone!

I remember living with my X who is an alcoholic and he would go through horrible, depressed cycles. It was awful to see, and even more awful to deal with. You have my thoughts and prayers.

Stay in touch with her. Let her know she matters, that she is loved. It's ok to love from afar and keep boundaries in place for you while doing this. Pray for her. Visit her if possible, or send her a care package.

I cannot even imagine my sibling going through this. I am so sorry for you both.

Many hugs, and many prayers!

teatreeoil007

Yes she needs your support, I'm thinking .... Take care of yourself... You can love and support your sister without getting pulled down... Detach in a healthy way...

Autumnlover19

Thanks for being good to your sister and still calling to say hi to her.

I am a depressed alcoholic and my sister won't speak to me after my recent relapse.

I was sober for 3.5 years and we got along fine. But after a fight I had with my BF, who texted her and told her about it, she's done with me I think. She doesn't live near me.

I've been sober 11 or so days now and in counseling and on antidepressants. But my sister will never even know all that.

Makes me more depressed, but what can I do?

Anyway thanks. I wish my sister was more like you. I do not consider it codependent. I would gladly welcome my sister to call and see how I'm doing. And to know that she cares if I'm sad and if I'm getting help and whatnot.

AlcSis

Thanks to all for your support. All of your replies, point-of-views and shared insight based on personal experience (with depression) and/or (experience with depression and also being an alcoholic)- they are so valuable!!!

As I have mentioned here before, we are both ACOA's. There is another younger sister (who has her own set of "major issues") and a younger brother in our crazy family. My brother is fairly "normal" and has been quite successful professionally and has raised a great family with his wife. It was a VERY CRAZY dysfunctional and abusive alcoholic family we grew up in.

I called my sister today. She had received a text from her DIL while we were talking last night, so today I called on the pretense of finding out how her DIL and DS are doing. They live out of state.

I told her that I am sorry she is struggling so badly and that I care and love her. Also threw out the possibility of her trying a natural antidepressant I have read about. 5HTP. She doesn't trust any "natural" remedies. She is emphatic that none have ever worked and says the side effects are always terrible. Oh well, I am not going to mention the possibility of taking medication again.

Asked her if she would like to come and visit during spring break time, and be here for Easter. She said she can't plan that far ahead; just getting through a day at a time right now is a challenge.
We ended our conversation with me saying, "Hang in There" - I'll call soon.

Someone here asked about her son. She has a son who helped her move back to this state. He lives about 2 hours from where she has moved. He has a girl friend who works every other week-end, he spends those times with her, and he has been to see (and help her with her new place) a few times (on the "free week-ends") - since she moved here. But - she is upset that she doesn't see him more often.

(Well, hello, she lived out of state for over 10 years - he is accustomed to life without "Mom". ) Note; I did not say this to her; she is so sensitive and gets upset so easily. But still.....

I know A's can and will manipulate and try to make people feel sorry for them.

I don't think this is the case. She is truly extremely depressed and lonely/alone. But I do think she is sitting too tight on her "pity pot".

I will not give up on her. In times past, when she was so angry and mean to me (when drinking), I have pulled away for a while. I have even told her about how her personality changes when she drinks.

*Note: I am not well; I have a severe autoimmune illness which is greatly affected by stress. This is why I really need to acquire some better coping techniques dealing with my Sis......I need to be able to balance taking care of myself vs. "being there" for my sister....

I have told her that I don't want her drinking in my home when she visits. She was here several days at Christmas and I never served alcohol. Perhaps this is why she doesn't want to come and stay a few days with me....She did have wine when we were taken out to dinner by a relative.

Of course, I am not perfect. But I am trying my best to live a more "normal" life than the one we grew up in. I have worked on different issues in therapy. Starting through the 12 steps. I'm trying, trust me, trying to live a life my HP wants for me.

Posting/writing here at SR is good therapy.
Receiving ESH from other members is PRICELESS.

Thanks, everyone.

Liveitwell

You are in the exact right place. Post all you wabt-that is what we are here for! I second Hopefuls words-I too would watch my ex go through horrible ups and downs-and it was awful to watch and live with. I myself struggled with depression too and know the cycles well. I've been out if the fog for years now but I know self care is the most important thing-if she's not willing to get help there is nothing you can do. Your words are sounding like you have awareness and are on the right path-your higher power absolutely wants you to break the chains of childhood bondage. Sorry you find yourself here-but welcome! Peace to you tonight.

hopeful4

It sounds to me like you really know what it means to have a healthy boundary, and are educated enough to realize what you can and cannot change. It's obviously important for you not to become so involved with her that you make yourself ill, as you well know.

I know this seems out there, but I know with my X it seemed like he would will himself to be even more depressed. His doctors and counselors would try to help, but he had it in his head ahead of time that it would not help, so it did not, or he would not even try. He was not always willing to put in the work he knew he had to put in to be well. I am not being critical of anyone who suffers depression as I know I don't understand completely how that feels.

Keep posting, you are not alone!

DesertEyes

Hello AlcSis, I am glad that you are finding support here on SR.

I come from a very dysfunctional family. All kinds of addictions and insanity all over. I had two aunts who were younger than me, one of them went to the same high school I did. Both of them were overwhelmed by the dysfunction and commited suicide. I have no idea if they suffered from depression as well, that medical condition was not known back then.

I totally understand about that guilt.

You cannot cure their condition, but you can do a lot to be supportive of them. The problem with addictions is that the specific actions that are most helpful are actually the _opposite_ of what is helpful to somebody with a normal disease. That's why we have concepts such as "enabling" and "no contact". If you educate yourself about these issues you _can_ provide help to your sister.

Depression is a very different beast. It is very common for people with depression to "self medicate" with alcohol or other such drugs. My aunts never did, and sometimes I wonder that if they had ... maybe they could have ended up in AA and survived. By the way, that is called "Predicting the Past" and is common in us Adult Children of Alcoholics.

Anti-depressive meds are very difficult to use properly. They have to be taken in slowly increasing dosages at first, and on exactly regular intervals. Both of which are a challenge for people who are fighting depression. Alcohol works much faster, and even provides a short "high" that the anti-deps don't, but then the damaging effects of alcohol take over.

Being supportive of people with depression is different than for alcoholics. In groups for families of people with depression there is no such thing as "no contact", but there is "enabling." Finding the right way to help someone who has _both_ conditions is _very_ difficult.

There are very few support groups for families of _both_ conditions. You mentioned that you have found a meeting of al-anon in your area. You can ask those folks if they can recommend a good therapist, then ask that therapist about support groups for family members.

Mike
Moderator, SR

LexieCat

Her depression will never improve as long as she's drinking. Meds won't work properly (assuming she's even together enough to take them as directed). Yes, people with depression self-medicate with alcohol, but the alcohol can also be responsible, in and of itself, for a lot of depression. And it's impossible to separate the two until she stops drinking.

This is a matter of first things first. If she were willing to get help, there are "dual diagnosis" programs that can address both problems. Barring that, if she were willing to work on staying sober, she could then address any lingering depression.

The truth is, though, that an awful lot of depressed alcoholics feel AMAZINGLY better when booze is out of the body chemistry.

teatreeoil007

I think you've go a good handle on this and you are expressing it very well. Glad this forum is helpful to you. Sometimes we need all the help we can get right? Of course you care about your sister and love her. That part will never change. It's a challenge, but very possible to love someone, but not be co-dependent. I guess that's why this forum exists. There is a good balance to shoot for. Do what we can the best we know how and are able...and trust in our HP.

redatlanta

She may not have been able to commit to a visit, but I feel certain that it will stick in her mind that you offered.

You know, moving is quite stressful. A brand new town without friends I would think to be depressing as well. I know that geography isn't going to change her drinking or depression - yet I can't help but wonder why she is staying there, or why she moved in the first place since her son is so far away?

Autumnlover19

Thank you for sharing more of your story. That is a tough place to be in and you are helping me see MY sister's side of things.

I'm sorry about your illness and it is important that you keep stress to a minimum. That must be very difficult when you have worries about your sister.

Somehow, you must find peace. I don't know what the answer is. I think you are doing the right thing by reinforcing that you love her and care about her. You can't change her, but you can offer support. Change must come from her.

Best wishes to you and your sister.

Fabat50

I feel for you, I really do. You clearly love your sister very much and I can relate to your dilemma albeit from another perspective.

(Also I am concerned because you have received a few replies on this thread which are factually incorrect.)

I myself am bipolar and suffered from crippling depression and/or manic highs for most of my life. I am also a (recovering) alcoholic. Just to clarify a couple of points.. alcoholics can take anti depressants, mood stabilisers, etc etc if they are prescribed my a qualified Dr and if the patient takes them as instructed. I have been on a heavy meds schedule for many years and my moods have been stable, the suicidal thoughts and gripping depression are long gone. And that is despite drinking 2 bottles of wine a night. So the point I am making is we need to let the Docs make décisions about what works and is safe. I know this is a moot point because you sister is refusing help at the moment but I just wanted to point that out to you in case the subject comes up again in the future. My Dr decided to treat my depression before attacking the addiction. Some Drs say that until you get sober you will never heal the depression. It's complicated and there is no "one solution fits all".

You have a lot of things to deal with including health problems. First and foremost -please look after yourself, be good to yourself and be kind to yourself. It is easy to get caught up in other people's problems, feel guilty where we should not and ignore our own wellbeing.

As a previous poster rightly pointed out. Depression and alcoholism are two different things. Yes one often goes with the other but where does one start and the other stop, chicken egg, it is a very complicated situation and the advice people give and receive about "how to deal with loved ones who are addicts" is not at all the same as the general advice on "dealing on loved ones with depression."

You sound as if you have judged the situation just right. Being there for your sister to talk, but not doing anything whatsoever to enable her drinking.

My family, I have brothers not sisters, have been a tremendous support to me and my children over the years. And they have done exactly what you are doing. That is to say let me know they are there when I need to talk, encouraged me to seek psychiatric help, encouraged me to talk about how I was feeling and basically made me understand that if ever I was really at the end of the train line they would be on a plane at the drop of a hat for me. You can not imagine how much love they have given me and I hope in my own way I have given them back.

Please don't give up on your sister. She needs you. But your first priority should always be yourself.

Sorry I know this post is a bit rambling and all over the place. I think what I am trying to say is clinical depression is the most horrifying experience. People say 'I'm depressed' too easily these days. Real depression is not something that we have brought on ourself. And it is not something that we can put to a stop ourselves. It is a very lonely place and we need people, family, to be there for us and to listen. Alcohol on the other hand is something we can do something about. I can go to my brothers house and choose not to drink. But I could not always choose not to be depressed.

Family are everything to me. And I give thanks to mine.

Wishing you lots of luck for the future. You are a wonderful sister. (I need to check your post again sorry if you are in fact a brother!!)

AlcSis

______________________________
She has moved away from her now ex-husband.

She moved to an area of our state where she could afford to live - and have the space she wanted.

I too, questioned her choice - as did her son.

But she did what she wanted to do. And relocated where she felt she could afford to live.

Sighhhh.........
I am just learning more and more about alcoholics.

And how their decisions about "life choices" can be skewed.

Even when they seem rational - you know - when they are not "drunk".

Understand the STINKING THINKING of alcoholics.

Even when they make decisions - before - taking their first drink of the day. The Stinking Thinking is active.

Now I think she is kicking herself in the arse because she jumped so fast to find a new place. She is too far for me to drive to visit (because I have a handicap and can just drive locally.) Her son has a LIFE - work - a girl friend - a place to keep up - and those extra 4 hours (to and from) add up on the times he goes to visit.

I am feeling a little guilty because I did not allow her to move in with me - to take the time to find a suitable place to move to. But I live in a place with guest restrictions (time allowed). And I am not well and I was fearful the stress (her stress) would have exacerbated my illness.

She claimed she was no longer drinking - before she moved back. I know she is still drinking. My decision not to allow her into my home was the best one for me. (Her son had found a room for her to rent - until she could find a new place. Still she jumped at and purchased the place she is now at.)

Oh boy......Life Can Be Really Difficult.
As an A - or as a loved one of an A.

If I believed that I had another life after this one
I wanna come back as a Big Ol' Lovable Dog.
Wake up, eat, poop, sleep. Sleep, eat, poop. Repeat until Bedtime.

AlcSis

I think some people (at least in my sisters' case) - drink more and more to try to escape the reality of their current life

Without thinking about the impact the alcohol has on their physical and psychological conditions. Or they deny this fact.

I say this, based on what my sister has told me.
She drinks to relieve herself of severe worry and anxiety.

AND THEN THEIR BODIES BECOME ADDICTED to the alcohol.

My sister has IBS. This illness gives her chronic crapppppy severe diarrhea.
Several.
Times.
A.
Day.

Alcohol is contraindicated for IBS. I mentioned this to her.
She does not care. Says anything she eats or drinks gives her the runs.

She says she drinks because the alcohol - helps her with her anxiety.
(And granted, her life circumstances have presented a LOT of challenges.)

I mentioned that alcohol is a depressant. Could be exacerbating her depression.

She doesn't care about this fact either.

Again, she tells me she drinks to get rid of her anxiety.

She know that exercise and getting out with other people may help.
But she can't (at this time) push herself to do these things.

I hope and pray she is not intentionally "drinking" herself to further ruin and death.

I pray that this current deep depression is partly a fall-out from her recent divorce, move to another state, radical change in finances, etc. etc.
SHE HAS GONE THROUGH A LOT over the past 6-8 months.

And I pray that she will somehow find a way out.

Watching her in that hole, as a co-dependent working on recovery is difficult. But I want to be "here" for her, when she gets out of the hole.

That is why I am asking for advice and support.

I don't want to do anything that could harm her even more in this battle of depression and alcoholism.

And again, all points of view are appreciated.

Fabat50

You are doing a great job. Keep doing what you are doing.. keep the lines of communication open, then you will not harm her. I do understand how hard it is for sober people without mental health problems to really understand how 'us" people feel. Just remember your sister is "ill". Of course she drinks to escape her worries.. but she drinks to look for some relief from what is a recognised illness. You are doing everything right. Keep posting. x