What am I missing?

Old 01-21-2016, 04:29 AM
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What am I missing?

I have a codependency question. I realize and see very clearly my codependency and I see how I’ve played it out with so many people and situations throughout my life. I really see how detrimental it was to my marriage (but I was not the only factor in its demise). So, as I’ve said my STBAXH of 26 years has moved out and made it very clear that he doesn’t want to be married to me and doesn’t love me. We still work together.

I find that when he does things that do make me feel badly (like ending conversations very abruptly, not telling me info for work I need to do, not taking my calls), that now instead of getting mad, I go to this place of “that wasn’t his intention and I need to not knee jerk into reaction and not take it personally”. But in reality, he doesn’t care and won’t change. And these things do make me feel badly, and rightly so. I need to get to a place where I want to be with someone who wants to be with me. And stop trying to “fix” this marriage that isn’t “fixable”. He’s told me so many times. It’s this fear and lack of control I guess that’s driving me to try and fix this.

I know we’ve discussed all of this on my other threads, but my question here is, with all the help (therapy, alanon, readings, prayer, etc.) I just don’t see how the codependency ends. How the self compassion and self love begins. I’m losing faith in the system I think. Does just going to these different meetings and appointments and doing readings just eventually switch something in the brain? When I’m in therapy, or alanon or reading, it all makes sense. I get it, but then I get to doing my daily life and think of him and I’m back to square one. My heart and my head are completely out of sync and am just curious on how they become one. How it happens that just saying “I’m worth more” becomes something I actually believe. How saying I have compassion for myself and did the best I could (which my rational brain knows is a fact) becomes a reality for my heart.

I understand I need to grieve the marriage. And I am. But am I missing a piece to the recovery puzzle, or is it just time and the matter of hearing the same message over and over again? Right now that doesn’t seem to be telling my heart to wise up, expect more, you are wonderful and worth being loved and you are loveable. I am aware that it is a slow process. And I guess looking back I might be a smidgen further along than I was months ago, and maybe that’s what I have to hold on to. But I just feel like I’m missing something.

I keep going back in my head to this place of “if he would just not run away so fast, and allow recovery to happen, then we could look at the marriage and see if we want it to end”. He’s only about 9 months into his recovery, as I guess I am too. And I know I can’t make him do anything, and I need to stay on my side of the street and in my own hula hoop and all of that. And I want to. I want to stop being wanted by someone that doesn’t care about me. I just don’t know when I start to believe my brain that I am worth more. I deserve to be loved—by me and by someone else.

I guess I just woke up frustrated this morning that I still have these same d*mn feelings and just want to wake up one day and not feel this way.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:46 AM
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Are you attending Al Anon and working those steps?
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:53 AM
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Sugarbear I have been attending Alanon for about 6 months. In the past few weeks I've started going at least 5 days a week at night because nighttimes are my most difficult "witching hour" in my head. But I have not started the steps as I haven't found anyone yet that I'd like to have as a sponsor. Is that the missing piece to this whole puzzle? I do believe the steps are an integral part of my recovery, but I don't see how without them I still feel like my heart isn't getting the message it needs to get.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:01 AM
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The issue here is that you have so much contact with him. As Hannibal Lecter said "We covet what we see everyday" (LOL but true). You deal with him a lot.

No contact allows us to not have it thrown in our faces all the time. Your situation is more complicated because you WORK together, you aren't just spouses. My advice would be to quit this job, but that takes time and may not be in your best financial interest.

You need to lay boundaries and do your best to have has little contact as possible. I would change the method of communication. No more phone calls. Everything must be email or text. No more meetings with him. No more stop by and drop off in person.

Until you start working the steps you won't feel what you are looking for. Find a sponsor and do it. You keep saying " I haven't found anyone I'd like to have as a sponsor" . A sponsor is a teacher, not a friend. The qualities you need are someone willing to do it and beyond that it doesn't matter. Pick one and start.

Lay down boundaries of communication ASAP. If you don't talk to him on the phone, he can't hang up quickly and make you feel bad. Get the picture? Take your power back.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:04 AM
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For me it required complete space and lack of contact, which I know is hard for you with work. When he was completely gone my head cleared. It also gave me time to build my immunity to his charms. There's a romantic hopeful side of our brains that just gets in the way.

Space...time without space takes a lot longer and is much more agony.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:08 AM
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Amy, I highly recommend the books Codependent No More and Boundaries. They were real eye openers for me when my husband left me....
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:11 AM
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Good Morning
I'm sorry you are hurting. I guess my question to you would be:

Knowing what you know, would you really want to get back with him? Think about it.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:26 AM
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Finding AMY......
I believe that redatlanta has one very key point----the contact that you are having with him is interfering with your recovery....for one thing, you can't even be fully engaged in the grieving process....because your contact is constant intermittent reinforcement.....the most p owerful kind of reinforcement.
I suggest a google search on the concept of "intermittent reinforcement".

You can't arrive at the first step of acceptance, because you are constantly being reinforced to cling to hope that you can still pull it out of the water....

Even if you do go no co ntact, etc. ...it still takes TIME...and, TIME takes time.....
How many years did it take for this to all come about? It will take more than a few weeks to change you whole way of life and your way of thinking......
Even saying this....your particular recovery is being delayed by contact, even more than it n ormally would....

I hesitate to give time lines ....because each person is so very different....but, on average, it is said that it takes 6mo. to a year to gradually feel more comfortable in your own skin after a major l oss......

I think that any of us who have grieved, get it.....it is not a comfortable process....it does suck major rocks and it improves slowly in fits and starts....
One just has to accept that they will be o ut of their comfort zone during this process....
It is short-term pain for long term gain.....

In some ways..I think the death of a spouse may be easier to accept than for a co-dependent to accept the loss of a relationship that is still living and still in their face.....
Because, it is more quickly accepted that you CANNOT CONTROL REALITY....
There is no more hope that the person will return in the flesh....there is no more trying to negotiate a compromise.....

You are doing some good things by alanon and reading, etc. Don't stop...it takes a while (a longer while) to ch ange the pathways in your brain...and your negative self talk, and your life long habits and ways of thinking.....

If you doubt all of this....there are thousands....yes, thousands, of real life stories here, on this forum, that describe these same feelings and conflicts that you are having....
The fact that many others have been where you are and have successfully worked their way through it---proves that it CAN be done!

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Old 01-21-2016, 07:07 AM
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All good advice above--to summarize what they said in part:

Quit communicating w/ him in person or on the phone entirely.
email / text only and I suggest you check email at a fixed time twice daily.
Get a sponsor
Start working the steps

My additional suggestions:
Allow time to pass without expectations of anything, feel your feelings,
get involved in an active exercise program if you aren't already.
I think yoga is great but just something to use your body and release energy daily.

Nurture yourself with excellent quality food, nice teas, and plenty of hot baths.
Start you long term planning for getting the f&%* out of the working situation / area
It's clear he's moving on, it's OK to feel and accept that--no bread at the hardware store.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:11 AM
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I have to agree with what someone said above. You are still forced to expose yourself to his bad behavior, which makes it extremely hard to heal from. I also agree with what Hawkeye just said above, every single point.

Time to put the focus on YOU, and what you deserve and need, and stop trying to figure out his crap behavior.

Much love my friend!
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:15 AM
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Amy there's no doubt in my mind that seeing him every day makes it difficult for you to move on. Also that he's acting arrogantly, whether he's aware of it or not.

If you were going to work on something, being assertive when he is disrespectful might be helpful, but it's difficult if he's determined to behave this way. Try not to do more for him than you need to though, he doesn't deserve it.

Is there any way you can plan an exit from the business?
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:06 AM
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Good stuff in-thread already, here are a few points that pop for me when reading your OP.

Learning & learning to value self-care & putting yourself first isn't a feeling, it won't come naturally. It's a process that takes constant practice in all ways you can. It is NO joke when I say that I started to question my EVERY decision, no matter how basic & no matter how many times I'd made it before. Actually, especially if I'd made the decision so many times it became a rote response that I had stopped examining.

No joke - "Fire, do you want chocolate ice cream?" followed by a very, very long silence where I thought - do I? I usually get vanilla. Is that because I WANT it or because I'm used to it? Has it just become easier to order vanilla? I really have always wanted to try raspberry, but idk..... so WHAT if I don't like it? Is that the worse thing ever?

Basic, but you get the idea. I had to question, examine & refine all of my personal paradigms.

The practice of self-care is about everything, every day. It's enforcing boundaries, choosing healthier foods or groups, making time for activities & new stuff, rearranging furniture, painting or remodeling, or moving into new space altogether, etc, etc, etc . But you HAVE to practice it. It won't happen just because you acknowledge the logic of it mentally.

Dandy's famous for advising about "Time & Space" & it is one of the truest things - and the most frustrating because absolutely nothing can speed of the process of either. For me, I focused on how time would pass anyway - how did I want to spend it? Where did I want to be at the end of that period? I think the biggest thing is that until you have that space/time you can't establish a "new normal" - the one that doesn't revolve around crisis & chaos. I think that's why, for me, when it did "click" it was like the flip of a switch, just a feeling of everything seeming to change overnight.

It's like you take that 1000th baby step & hit the top of the peak, see the majesty of that view...... it wasn't JUST Step #1000 that mattered.... the other 999 were as important, just less explosive.

Right now, you make progress &then lose some of it every time you interact with your Ex in any way that you don't feel strong enough for just yet. That diminishes the return on investment you're seeing for the time you put in on your own recovery. It's hard - by nature we Codies react to those around us.

I would need short-term tools to use when I had to interact with Ex. Mantra, visualizations, breathing exercise, whatever could bring my focus back to reality & not stay enmeshed in his chaos once I felt myself getting dragged in. My goal is to always be a witness - observing but not participating in his unchanging behavior. And ditto to everyone else about cutting communication, reducing interaction if possible, etc.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:17 AM
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Firesprite^^^^^ this is a very articulate commentary on the issue at hand!

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Old 01-21-2016, 11:59 AM
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I do agree so much with the fact that working together is making the grieving process that much more difficult. Sort of like grieving a death and the person keeps coming back to life. I do need to set these boundaries for my own mental health. I will stop communicating via phone, as that does seem to be the most detrimental. I will also only check emails once or twice a day. Texting is also quite difficult as things can be misinterpreted. So I will stick to emailing and ask him to do the same. This is definitely a boundary I need to set.

I also think there is a woman I am going to ask tomorrow to be my sponsor. My commute to work is over an hour and I usually listen to my Audibles. Today I listened to How Alanon Works and I really got a lot out of it, but I also understood how important the steps are and it motivated me even more to get started on that.

Lilro, knowing what I know, the answer is no I wouldn’t want to get back together with him, and I know that, but that’s where my work is. I think I have become so enmeshed with him and lost track of where he ends and I begin that I’m having trouble getting myself “un-enmeshed” and seeing myself as my own person.

Dandylion, thanks for those words. It gave me a bit of encouragement that this does take a while. I know I need to slow down and let the process work. I am such an anxious person that likes to get to the end as quickly as possible. I need to use this as a lesson in slowing down and letting things unfold rather than forcing everything, which is usually how I work. And intermittent reinforcement is definitely a problem and something I need to address. And I do need to let time pass without expectations of anything. Time and space. I need time and I need space. I do see that. And I also need to give myself a break.

Hawkeye, I definitely do feel my feelings, but a bit too much. Last weekend was excruciating. I think I need to learn to feel them and then put them aside for a while and not get obsessively thinking about them. My anxiety then gets flooded and my rational brain goes running for the hills. I think today I will write down all of these positive feelings I have so when I get down I have something to refer back to.

FS, I am going to start doing more for me. No matter how hard it is to do. I see that it is practice and isn’t enough just to think about it. I have to start doing. Your short term tools were great also. I need to write this down in my journal. And also to try and be more of a witness. This is all so good.

You guys are all so strong and so helpful and supportive. I look forward to the day that I’m on the other side of this and am stronger and able to help others. In the meantime I am eternally grateful for your acceptance, non-judgement, support and friendship you offer me time and time again on this forum.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:02 AM
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All I know right now is here comes the weekend and I don't want to go down the rabbit hole again. I've got to find a way to keep busy to keep my mind at bay. Funny how I used to look forward to the weekends and now I dread them. How life can change so quickly.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:58 AM
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What do you do on the weekends FA?
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:25 PM
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Redatlanta, the past few weekends have been spent crying and I don't want to go there again. So...for today I worked out this morning, went to an Alanon meeting (an made a time to meet a sponsor Monday!), made myself a healthy lunch, worked and am going to yoga tonight. Tomorrow I plan to go to yoga in the morning, then Reiki at 1 with a friend, then I think I will come home and plan my meals (as I've been really struggling with that) and go food shopping. I think I'll go workout, go food shopping, make dinner and watch a movie. I met someone in Alanon the other day that said to call if i ever wanted to do something (a guy, but just a friend). So I thought I'd see if he wanted to see a movie with me. I'm not quite ready to go to a movie myself yet. It's not the act of going by myself, it's going and seeing other couples together that would be hard for me. I'm trying really hard to fill my time. I started moving things around in my house so it looks a bit different. I made one of my rooms into a meditation room and will buy a rug hopefully for it this weekend. I was also thinking of maybe getting a massage this weekend. I'm trying really hard to keep the focus on me and my needs. I realized when my kids were home I cooked constantly, then they leave and I just throw a salad together. I should treat myself as well as I treat others.

It's hard for me with friends. We moved here about 10 years ago and my kids were older and so I didn't have the socializing with parents. I played tennis for years and had friends there, but around here you are in or you are out with tennis. So when I stopped playing to work, those friendships fizzled away. I have a couple acquaintances from yoga, but no real friendships. I think while I was still married all of my energy went into trying to maintain some type of life with my AH that I didn't notice I was losing all of my friends and not fostering new relationships. This alcoholism and my codependency took so much from me that I need to rebuild.

My STBAXH is away for 4 days and even though he doesn't live with me I still feel a weight lifted. I'm not sure why that is, but it's a relief. I see how space does make a huge difference in healing. I also only communicated with him once today (work stuff) and that was it. Kept it brief and moved on. I look forward to some more doors opening up for me, but I guess the only way that happens is by my getting out there in the world.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:38 PM
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You've got some great ideas for the weekend, Amy! And some solid advice from others...
I would only add that recovery isn't really a destination, but rather, a practice. And what you are doing with all of the readings, and meetings, and now the work you'll get to do with a sponsor... all of those things are helping you to strengthen this muscle. You are literally trying to rewire your brain to think differently, and to feel differently about things that have transpired... to change your perspective, and to make different choices for today and tomorrow. That takes a life time of work! And the saying, 'progress, not perfection' is also applicable here.... which then leads to the need for self compassion.... Not just self care, but self compassion for the time you are taking to heal and to change your life.
Hope your weekend turns out great!
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Old 01-22-2016, 07:55 PM
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Amy, are you ACOA? I'm just curious. I've heard that ACOAs have a hard time figuring out how to have spontaneous fun. My parents were both alcoholics, and that's so true of me. I have a very hard time living in the moment. Planning and working hard at my plans are my way of feeling in control. I am just now at a point in my recovery where I'm trying to figure out what I genuinely like to do and how to just relax and let the enjoyment wash over me, with people, with hobbies, etc. I ask because it almost sounds like you're seeing recovery as a job, like you want to know what you have to get done and then roll up your sleeves and knock it out, tick all the boxes. I'm not sure how to tell you to go about cultivating your ability to enjoy spontaneous fun, but maybe something to think about. Give yourself some time, and be easy on yourself. You're working very hard at recovery. You're doing all you can do. Let it happen. And do something silly and fun now and then, just because the whim strikes you.
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FindingAmy View Post
Redatlanta, the past few weekends have been spent crying and I don't want to go there again. So...for today I worked out this morning, went to an Alanon meeting (an made a time to meet a sponsor Monday!), made myself a healthy lunch, worked and am going to yoga tonight. Tomorrow I plan to go to yoga in the morning, then Reiki at 1 with a friend, then I think I will come home and plan my meals (as I've been really struggling with that) and go food shopping. I think I'll go workout, go food shopping, make dinner and watch a movie. I met someone in Alanon the other day that said to call if i ever wanted to do something (a guy, but just a friend). So I thought I'd see if he wanted to see a movie with me. I'm not quite ready to go to a movie myself yet. It's not the act of going by myself, it's going and seeing other couples together that would be hard for me. I'm trying really hard to fill my time. I started moving things around in my house so it looks a bit different. I made one of my rooms into a meditation room and will buy a rug hopefully for it this weekend. I was also thinking of maybe getting a massage this weekend. I'm trying really hard to keep the focus on me and my needs. I realized when my kids were home I cooked constantly, then they leave and I just throw a salad together. I should treat myself as well as I treat others.

It's hard for me with friends. We moved here about 10 years ago and my kids were older and so I didn't have the socializing with parents. I played tennis for years and had friends there, but around here you are in or you are out with tennis. So when I stopped playing to work, those friendships fizzled away. I have a couple acquaintances from yoga, but no real friendships. I think while I was still married all of my energy went into trying to maintain some type of life with my AH that I didn't notice I was losing all of my friends and not fostering new relationships. This alcoholism and my codependency took so much from me that I need to rebuild.

My STBAXH is away for 4 days and even though he doesn't live with me I still feel a weight lifted. I'm not sure why that is, but it's a relief. I see how space does make a huge difference in healing. I also only communicated with him once today (work stuff) and that was it. Kept it brief and moved on. I look forward to some more doors opening up for me, but I guess the only way that happens is by my getting out there in the world.
This sounds fabulous Amy! This looks like a few of those baby steps right here!
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