Need strength for tomorrow...

Old 01-20-2016, 08:06 PM
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Need strength for tomorrow...

So I came home tonight after an Al-Anon meeting (which was really great btw!) and noticed a couple of weird things out of place. I grabbed my laptop and realized that it wasn't mine, it was APs. They look the same from the outside and are usually both sitting on the same table. It opened up to her Facebook page with an instant message to a friend at 11am today. I hadn't heard from her all day so I called the rehab house and they said she was in bed and couldn't come to the phone. I asked if she came to our house at all today and the girl said "Ooooh, you don't know about that?" She couldn't give me any details for confidentiality reasons but said I could call her therapist in the morning.

I'm disappointed but not surprised. She's been talking more lately about how hard it's been feeling controlled all the time. The therapists there are pushing her and not letting her get away with BS, which makes her act out like a rebellious teenager. Pretty much what I've been living with for the past I don't know how long!

So if she does leave or get kicked out, I've decided that she will not be welcome to come back home. This is going to be really really hard for me to stand up and enforce this boundary, so does anyone have any words of encouragement, or advice for keeping strong?
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:53 PM
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FWIW, I think that's a very healthy decision! You've sounded so much better/calmer/clearer-headed since you got some time to yourself.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:59 PM
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Thanks jjj111, I've been feeling a lot calmer and clearer-headed these past couple of weeks. Which is exactly why I'm feeling like I can't let her back in right now. I know I'm still really vulnerable and could easily get sucked back down.

If I have to set a boundary, she's either going to get pissed and try to make me out to be evil and uncaring, or she will get completely depressed and make noises about how worthless she is and the world would be better without her in it.

I know exactly what her methods will be and can see through them from my safe distance here tonight, I'm just worried I will let the guilt-trip get to me and cave like I always have.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:04 PM
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You deserve the time to get your head straight. She has other options. She can stay where she is if she wants to get healthy. I'm sure by now you've heard the term quacking. When she starts in on her woe is me, you're so cruel trip, you don't even have to listen. The truth is, all she's saying is "quack, quack, quack." In fact, you can just picture a big duck, quacking above her head.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:31 PM
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Sound like you know what you need to do FM. One question: legally can you refuse to have her come back? Does she co-own your house with you?
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:53 AM
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First you need an explanation of how she ended up at the house. If she was given permission to leave then she may not have done something wrong.

Bekind is correct about dealing with legalities of her legal residence. She doesn't have to have her name on the house to be a legal resident there - in fact I believe you are married? If you are you can't just toss her out, or refuse her entrance. You can evict a girlfriend but you can't evict a wife.

It sounds like she has been cooperative with leaving the home before and I hope that continues. First thing first though, find out how she ended back up at the house. If she left the rehab without permission she might be subject to being released.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:00 AM
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Oh boy...we're here for you. Be strong. I called it the "puppy dog"...the sweet pathetic little spouse that my reasonable boundaries and requests smothered, stomped on and killed.

The puppy isn't real...but it's SO believable and got me so many times.

Stay strong!
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by redatlanta View Post
First you need an explanation of how she ended up at the house. If she was given permission to leave then she may not have done something wrong.

Bekind is correct about dealing with legalities of her legal residence. She doesn't have to have her name on the house to be a legal resident there - in fact I believe you are married? If you are you can't just toss her out, or refuse her entrance. You can evict a girlfriend but you can't evict a wife.

It sounds like she has been cooperative with leaving the home before and I hope that continues. First thing first though, find out how she ended back up at the house. If she left the rehab without permission she might be subject to being released.
She called this morning before I went to work. It definitely wasn't an approved leave. She was out of her anti-anxiety meds and they told her they would take her to the pharmacy but kept putting it off so she just took off walking. We live just a couple of blocks from the pharmacy so she came home. She got there and cooled off a bit and realized that she didn't want to jeopardize her recovery anymore so she called them and they agreed to let her come back on the condition that a breathalyzer and drug screen came back clean. So she's not kicked out, which is good. And she went back of her own volition which is also good. How keeping her on benzos is helpful to her recovery I have no idea. Not my decision or responsibility though!

We are married and both of our names are on the house, so I know, I can't force her to leave. I've never even really made a serious request for her to go though, so it's never come to actual legalities before. I've said here and there "you need to be out by Friday" but either I gave in or circumstances just worked out that the leave wasn't necessary.

I need to be able to set up a boundary that we can't be in the same house right now, hope that she agrees and leaves, or be prepared to take the kids to an extended stay hotel or something for a while if she throws up major resistance. Me standing strong is the first step. Figuring out how to follow through if she refuses is the second one.

We have a meeting with her therapist at the rehab center scheduled for next Wednesday. I called today to set up a time to talk with the therapist beforehand so that we can game plan how/when to discuss with AP the issue of taking some more time at a halfway house or something before we are both ready for her to come home. I want to make sure that we discuss it in front of the therapist so that we both have support getting through the conversation.

I am pretty proud of myself so far though for handling this situation in a much more healthy way than I would have in the past. I didn't spend the entire night obsessing about it, I was able to sleep pretty well. When she called this morning I didn't get all wrapped up in her "quacking" (poor me, they weren't taking care of me so I had to leave and take care of myself), I just told her that I understand recovery is hard and I was glad she chose to go back. I'm making plans to put my needs and my kids needs first. Now I just need to let this out of my mind and focus on my work!
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jjj111 View Post
You deserve the time to get your head straight. She has other options. She can stay where she is if she wants to get healthy. I'm sure by now you've heard the term quacking. When she starts in on her woe is me, you're so cruel trip, you don't even have to listen. The truth is, all she's saying is "quack, quack, quack." In fact, you can just picture a big duck, quacking above her head.
I totally used this imagery when she called this morning and it was so helpful! Quack, quack!!
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:48 AM
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findingme26.....just for the record....have you consulted an attorney to find out your (and her) legal rights in this situation...?
If not---just having the information in the back of your head can give you a degree of confidence....
there is a good website for this sort of information...."WomansDivorce.com".
This is not a substitute for your own lawyer, of course....But, is very educational....and, it is broken down by states......

It is true...you can't just kick out a wife without following legal channels.....
(there are also legal issues concerning the children---depending on the particular situation).....
(I am not a lawyer....but, I have been around the block a time or two...)

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Old 01-21-2016, 12:02 PM
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Thanks, dandy. I have been meaning to get in touch with my attorney but just haven't gotten around to it. Thanks to your prompt, I called today and was able to get a free phone consult from her. I do feel a little better having some questions answered, but the answers aren't especially helpful.

AP is not the legal parent of my kids. They were adopted in my name alone so she's basically a step-parent right now. The attorney advised that it would be a lot better for me if I didn't go through with allowing her to adopt them for now. The upside of having her adopt them would be that she could owe child support but that doesn't outweigh the risks I would be taking by having to allow visitations even if I don't feel they are safe. I knew this already, but it was good to have someone else spell it out for me.

Michigan does not provide for legal separation. You can either file for divorce or for separate maintenance. Basically the only difference is that you are still married in separate maintenance. Costs are the same, dividing up assets is the same, and if you decide you want divorce down the line, you have to start the whole process and costs over again from the beginning.

Pretty much, I have to hope that AP is agreeable if I want her out of the house. If she isn't, my only recourse to force her out is to file. The attorney did say that if I take the kids to my mom's for a bit or stay in a hotel then that doesn't lose my claims to the property. She advised against setting up an official separate residence myself though, like getting an apartment.

I'm so torn with all of this. I hope AP is reasonable and we can talk about this all calmly. She has no income right now, so she has no way to get a place of her own. I might offer to help pay for a week or two at a halfway house until she can get unemployment started. But I don't know if that would be manipulative, because I definitely don't want to give her money for a deposit on an apartment, after what happened the last time I helped out that way.

Lots to think about. And I am starting to obsess a bit about all these "what ifs" so maybe I just need to try and take a break thinking about it for a while.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:06 AM
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Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be negative, but I sometimes get
strength from this visual in my head when I feel scared or that manipulation is headed my way:

I picture this big mean looking cat that is "toying" with me. Pawing at me, knocking me around and the cat is enjoying it, smiling. When I decide I've had enough (happens very quickly now) I stand up to the cat. I back the cat down.
The cat can see it in my eyes and posture and hear the determination in my voice. Sometimes the mouse is armed. The point is, I'm fed up with being "toyed" with for someone else's enjoyment and gratification, cause that's what it is. The cat leaves me alone.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:17 AM
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I think if we are talking about 100 dollars a week, if she is willing
and asks you for help, I would consider giving her (not loaning)
the first full month to let her get back on her feet and get a job.

Getting her out of the house is the priority, right?
Offering an incentive might help, and a disincentive of
you telling her you'll be filing for divorce if she insists
on coming home may be needed.

I don't mean to sound cold, but I think the kids don't need to be
around a volatile recovering addict.
They need a safe, peaceful space and a focused parent.
Her in the house would make all of that impossible.
Use the carrot, but be ready with stick--
A sober house is a great step for someone in early recovery.
I see it as a win-win. What do you think FM and others?
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Old 01-22-2016, 07:08 AM
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I think you need another consult.

If she has no means to support herself, in this state, what is yours is half hers. DO NOT let her adopt those children, put them before a paycheck (which she does not have). Also in this state, just b/c you file does not mean one person is required to leave the house. No one is required to do so unless a judge orders one out, which is not easy to do, or until the house sells. I know divorced people after it's final who still live together b/c the house has to sell and it has not yet.

You can hope for cooperation, but if her attitude is poor me, and is that of the victim, you can bet she is going to get some legal advise herself along the way and her cooperation may change. And, if she has no income, it's likely she can be appointed free or very low cost legal aid by the state for divorce handling.

Coming from someone who is divorced, I can only tell you how it is here, in this state. However, I encourage you to speak to a few attorneys about this. I think I met with 4 or 5 attorneys before I decided who to use, and all were free consult. I gained ALOT of information from these wonderful folks during that time.

Good luck to you! I always say, prepare for the worst, hope and pray for the best.
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Old 01-22-2016, 07:57 AM
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I had a really good phone conversation with AP's therapist today. She reassured me that they have been taking with AP about release planning and going to a sober living home is definitely something that is on the radar. She said that AP might even be relieved that I am thinking about it too, because in the past I have not been so receptive to a physical separation. That's a fair point, but when she brought it up a couple of months ago she was deep in her addiction and affair, and I was in co-dependent, anxious hell, so no, I wasn't on board at all.

I'm feeling a bit calmer today and realize that her AWOL incident on Wednesday really scared me into some unhealthy obsessing yesterday. I do need to get as much info as possible to prepare myself, but I also need to take a breath and slow my brain down. She's still at the center at least until the end of the month. And we have a session with her therapist scheduled for Wednesday. She's coming home again tomorrow on a pass, so I need to just relax and enjoy her company and our family time while she's here. My overactive brain can be my biggest enemy sometimes!
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 View Post
I think if we are talking about 100 dollars a week, if she is willing
and asks you for help, I would consider giving her (not loaning)
the first full month to let her get back on her feet and get a job.

Getting her out of the house is the priority, right?
Offering an incentive might help, and a disincentive of
you telling her you'll be filing for divorce if she insists
on coming home may be needed.

I don't mean to sound cold, but I think the kids don't need to be
around a volatile recovering addict.
They need a safe, peaceful space and a focused parent.
Her in the house would make all of that impossible.
Use the carrot, but be ready with stick--
A sober house is a great step for someone in early recovery.
I see it as a win-win. What do you think FM and others?
I definitely agree! It wouldn't be easy for me to work something like that into our budget, but it could be doable for a month at least. I think Dandylion mentioned that they sometimes have programs or financial help for people in her situation, so hopefully the caseworker at the center can help her figure some of that out as well. I agree with another poster (I can't remember who right now!) who suggested waiting to see if she asks instead of trying to figure out the solution for her. But I think you are right, I will be prepared to help out if she needs it, because having her come right home would just be disastrous for her recovery, my recovery, and my kids' peace.
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:07 AM
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Yes, slow down.

We ALL know that feeling you describe ----->

Followed in turn by ----->

The saying, "Don't just do something, stand there!" saved my sanity more than a couple of times. You don't have to figure everything out right this minute, you don't have to know the perfect, right answer for every situation. You WILL make mistakes.

Progress, not perfection, friend. Great update, hang in there!
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FireSprite View Post
Yes, slow down.

We ALL know that feeling you describe ----->

Followed in turn by ----->

The saying, "Don't just do something, stand there!" saved my sanity more than a couple of times. You don't have to figure everything out right this minute, you don't have to know the perfect, right answer for every situation. You WILL make mistakes.

Progress, not perfection, friend. Great update, hang in there!
Thanks, FireSprite! This is exactly what I needed to hear today.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by findingme26 View Post
She called this morning before I went to work. It definitely wasn't an approved leave. She was out of her anti-anxiety meds and they told her they would take her to the pharmacy but kept putting it off so she just took off walking... How keeping her on benzos is helpful to her recovery I have no idea. Not my decision or responsibility though!
This really stood out as a red flag to me. Benzo's and recovery DID NOT work well together in my experience. They actually became a whole other destructive addiction on their own! It always surprises me when rehabs allow people to take benzos. Booze in a pill!

Keep posting and sharing, I hope things work out for you.
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Justincredible View Post
This really stood out as a red flag to me. Benzo's and recovery DID NOT work well together in my experience. They actually became a whole other destructive addiction on their own! It always surprises me when rehabs allow people to take benzos. Booze in a pill!

Keep posting and sharing, I hope things work out for you.
The OP's AW was diagnosed with Bi Polar disorder and anxiety. There could be further reason's behind why they have not addressed the benzo yet, or may decide to continue to treat with it.
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