My Addict niece DIED last night.....
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Well blue, you've done what you can, so save your sanity and stay out of it. Your AD may be manipulating you, or the doctor, or both.
I can really see you getting sucked back into the whole thing, when your AD is an adult and can deal with her doctor, or use another one. Going back to the doctor with AD, or arranging her rehab, or whatever else she wants you to do will just pull you into her problems. As for seeing a lawyer...can she afford that when she can't pay rent?
On the positive side just sticking to what you told your AD has already improved her behaviour a lot. She's polite, thinking about therapy, (has she paid you any board yet?), but note she's still trying to get you to change your mind.
I can really see you getting sucked back into the whole thing, when your AD is an adult and can deal with her doctor, or use another one. Going back to the doctor with AD, or arranging her rehab, or whatever else she wants you to do will just pull you into her problems. As for seeing a lawyer...can she afford that when she can't pay rent?
On the positive side just sticking to what you told your AD has already improved her behaviour a lot. She's polite, thinking about therapy, (has she paid you any board yet?), but note she's still trying to get you to change your mind.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Bluehawaii.....this is the time to enforce your boundaries. The boundaries that you have already stated.
this is exactly what boundaries are for! To protect YOU from the chaos and abuses of life.....
She knows she is to be out by Feb. 1. If she refuses to leave and you don't have the heart or ability to do follow-thru on that.....then....you can cut through the manipulation by moving to separate housing for the time being....
You have already stated this plan "B" in another post.....
Of course, you can also choose to do nothing....But, if you do....know that the chaos will only get worse. Just more and m ore of the same....because she knows that she has control of the situation and th at your words are hollow.....
This just emboldens her self-confidence and erodes yours.....
Have you ever considered that your mental and physical health may be collapsed by li ving under such intense and chronic stress and anxiety?
If the stress kills you....you will have to leave the house (someone will carry you out).
You need the support of your own individual counselor....someone who is trained in the area of abuse......
If you call and ask for that ......you can get that k ind of help.....
If nothing changes...nothing changes....(but it can get worse)....
dandylion
this is exactly what boundaries are for! To protect YOU from the chaos and abuses of life.....
She knows she is to be out by Feb. 1. If she refuses to leave and you don't have the heart or ability to do follow-thru on that.....then....you can cut through the manipulation by moving to separate housing for the time being....
You have already stated this plan "B" in another post.....
Of course, you can also choose to do nothing....But, if you do....know that the chaos will only get worse. Just more and m ore of the same....because she knows that she has control of the situation and th at your words are hollow.....
This just emboldens her self-confidence and erodes yours.....
Have you ever considered that your mental and physical health may be collapsed by li ving under such intense and chronic stress and anxiety?
If the stress kills you....you will have to leave the house (someone will carry you out).
You need the support of your own individual counselor....someone who is trained in the area of abuse......
If you call and ask for that ......you can get that k ind of help.....
If nothing changes...nothing changes....(but it can get worse)....
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 228
So sorry
A friend accidentally overdosed. He had been on prescribed pain pills for a long time. He'd been taking 5 low mg (2mg?) and the doctor thought it would be easier for him to just have him take one 10mg. They believe that out of habit he took 5 pills (10mg instead of 2 mg) by mistake.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Even though one might have a prescription from a doctor, they are not to be trifled with.
Again my condolences.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Even though one might have a prescription from a doctor, they are not to be trifled with.
Again my condolences.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
They are allowed to prescribe more than a month of benzos, but should not.
Blue, if she talks to the treatment people, which I hope she will, maybe they could recommend a local doctor to her that she could work with honestly. Sometimes a fresh start is the way to go.
Many hugs!
Blue, if she talks to the treatment people, which I hope she will, maybe they could recommend a local doctor to her that she could work with honestly. Sometimes a fresh start is the way to go.
Many hugs!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by KDBnSLC 
A friend accidentally overdosed. He had been on prescribed pain pills for a long time. He'd been taking 5 low mg (2mg?) and the doctor thought it would be easier for him to just have him take one 10mg. They believe that out of habit he took 5 pills (10mg instead of 2 mg) by mistake.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Even though one might have a prescription from a doctor, they are not to be trifled with.
Again my condolences.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Even though one might have a prescription from a doctor, they are not to be trifled with.
Again my condolences.
Sickening...so sad.
There has to be a better way...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by dandylion
Bluehawaii.....this is the time to enforce your boundaries. The boundaries that you have already stated.
this is exactly what boundaries are for! To protect YOU from the chaos and abuses of life.....
She knows she is to be out by Feb. 1. If she refuses to leave and you don't have the heart or ability to do follow-thru on that.....then....you can cut through the manipulation by moving to separate housing for the time being....
You have already stated this plan "B" in another post.....
Of course, you can also choose to do nothing....But, if you do....know that the chaos will only get worse. Just more and m ore of the same....because she knows that she has control of the situation and th at your words are hollow.....
This just emboldens her self-confidence and erodes yours.....
Have you ever considered that your mental and physical health may be collapsed by li ving under such intense and chronic stress and anxiety?
If the stress kills you....you will have to leave the house (someone will carry you out).
You need the support of your own individual counselor....someone who is trained in the area of abuse......
If you call and ask for that ......you can get that k ind of help.....
If nothing changes...nothing changes....(but it can get worse)....
dandylion
this is exactly what boundaries are for! To protect YOU from the chaos and abuses of life.....
She knows she is to be out by Feb. 1. If she refuses to leave and you don't have the heart or ability to do follow-thru on that.....then....you can cut through the manipulation by moving to separate housing for the time being....
You have already stated this plan "B" in another post.....
Of course, you can also choose to do nothing....But, if you do....know that the chaos will only get worse. Just more and m ore of the same....because she knows that she has control of the situation and th at your words are hollow.....
This just emboldens her self-confidence and erodes yours.....
Have you ever considered that your mental and physical health may be collapsed by li ving under such intense and chronic stress and anxiety?
If the stress kills you....you will have to leave the house (someone will carry you out).
You need the support of your own individual counselor....someone who is trained in the area of abuse......
If you call and ask for that ......you can get that k ind of help.....
If nothing changes...nothing changes....(but it can get worse)....
dandylion
Dr is trying to get her rent aid to help process along.
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 748
I have been following your news quietly in the background. I am so sorry for you niece and the heartbreak you are currently experiencing with your daughter.
In your above thread you mentioned that your daughter wants to sue. Sue who? And what for?
Will be thinking of you.
In your above thread you mentioned that your daughter wants to sue. Sue who? And what for?
Will be thinking of you.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
blue...don't forget that she was going to great lengths to lie to and manipulate the doctor. the same doctor that is still trying to help her...
You have said, yourself that she is a master manipulator (with those outside the family)....and, that those at work think the world of her and that she is wonderful to them.....
I am in the medical profession, myself...and, I can tell you that doctors can't give everyone lie-detector tests......
Why blame it all on the doctor....
dandylion
You have said, yourself that she is a master manipulator (with those outside the family)....and, that those at work think the world of her and that she is wonderful to them.....
I am in the medical profession, myself...and, I can tell you that doctors can't give everyone lie-detector tests......
Why blame it all on the doctor....
dandylion
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by dandylion
blue...don't forget that she was going to great lengths to lie to and manipulate the doctor. the same doctor that is still trying to shelp her...
You have said, yourself that she is a master manipulator (with those outside the family)....and, that those at work think the world of her and that she is wonderful to them.....
I am in the medic profession, myself...and, I can tell you that doctors can't give everyone lie-detector tests......
Why blame it all on the doctor....
You have said, yourself that she is a master manipulator (with those outside the family)....and, that those at work think the world of her and that she is wonderful to them.....
I am in the medic profession, myself...and, I can tell you that doctors can't give everyone lie-detector tests......
Why blame it all on the doctor....
The Dr said she talked to her lawyer ...why?
can get AD fired and her car taken away.
She had apparently no concern for her at all and basically wanted to drop her as a patient and me after all I wanted was help.
Ad was distraught and scared.
I have no idea what went on and I only hope she doesn't want her to sign that contract because she intends to keep giving her meds.
Or is it to cover her because she told me she had one.
What do you do dandelion?
Ad is not having a good day totally hurt and worried she will get her fired....
Last edited by DesertEyes; 01-21-2016 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Fixed broken quote
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Fabat50
I have been following your news quietly in the background. I am so sorry for you niece and the heartbreak you are currently experiencing with your daughter.
In your above thread you mentioned that your daughter wants to sue. Sue who? And what for?
Will be thinking of you.
In your above thread you mentioned that your daughter wants to sue. Sue who? And what for?
Will be thinking of you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 187
That sounds like a major mess. So you weren't in the room with her when the doctor said all of these things? Unfortunately, you have no idea if even half of what she's telling you is true. More than likely, she's playing both you and the doctor at the same time. I'm sorry you're going through such a hard time right now. 
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Bluehawaii.....I agree, word for word with findingme26.
She is playing you, big time. You are still sucked in up to your knees with her drama.
I see it as good that you gave the doctor information about the truth of her medication non-compliance. As a matter of fact...I used to call my mother's doctor to let him know things like--she had a non-healing ulcer on her leg that she was hiding from him...and she stopped taking her Coumadin against his instructions. (my mother was 92)....because I felt it was life-altering information (possibly). He could not give me information about her...but, I could give information to him....
Short of giving her doctor this information....it is best to leave her care between her and the doctor. I forsee it all backfiring in your face....or, at minimum---stressing you more and more as time goes on.....
dandylion
She is playing you, big time. You are still sucked in up to your knees with her drama.
I see it as good that you gave the doctor information about the truth of her medication non-compliance. As a matter of fact...I used to call my mother's doctor to let him know things like--she had a non-healing ulcer on her leg that she was hiding from him...and she stopped taking her Coumadin against his instructions. (my mother was 92)....because I felt it was life-altering information (possibly). He could not give me information about her...but, I could give information to him....
Short of giving her doctor this information....it is best to leave her care between her and the doctor. I forsee it all backfiring in your face....or, at minimum---stressing you more and more as time goes on.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,423
She lies to you all the time.
Why do you just accept her version of what was said without question?
You did the right thing telling the doctor.
Your daughter was lying and working the system to get meds at a rate
both addictive and possibly lethal.
That's why they have the "rules" about the prescriptions in the first place.
If your daughter was not doing that, there would have been no problem, right?
You were acting to keep her safe, not harm her.
Addicts really are good at shifting blame to others.
They manage to create a narrative where they are the poor victim
and everyone else "makes" them use.
She's been blaming you for her problems for how long now?
How many dozens of times has she gotten you to doubt and question yourself even though you know
the facts because you were there.
This time, you were not even in the room with she and the doctor, so why
would you believe one single word of her version?
I think you need to step back again and realize that this won't get any better
as long as you are living together.
Too much friction, aggression, blame, and pain in the family dynamic.
Nothing will change BH if you don't change it.
It sounds like you are literally making yourself sick trying to fix her.
The saddest thing is it won't work and will in fact make things worse.
I tried to fix my addicted mother and sort out her problems and her minimize her pain for most of my
childhood and adult life. Very bad choice on my part in hindsight.
All I really managed to do was destroy my health, my career prospects, and nearly my marriage.
She stayed an enabled addicted alcoholic for just about her entire life until she was too weak to drink and smoke.
I still am living with the fallout some seven years after her death.
Not much to show for forty years of suffering, is it?
My personal experience is that you cannot save someone from themselves
no matter how much you love them, but you can sure go off the cliff with them
and nobody gets better.
Why do you just accept her version of what was said without question?
You did the right thing telling the doctor.
Your daughter was lying and working the system to get meds at a rate
both addictive and possibly lethal.
That's why they have the "rules" about the prescriptions in the first place.
If your daughter was not doing that, there would have been no problem, right?
You were acting to keep her safe, not harm her.
Addicts really are good at shifting blame to others.
They manage to create a narrative where they are the poor victim
and everyone else "makes" them use.
She's been blaming you for her problems for how long now?
How many dozens of times has she gotten you to doubt and question yourself even though you know
the facts because you were there.
This time, you were not even in the room with she and the doctor, so why
would you believe one single word of her version?
I think you need to step back again and realize that this won't get any better
as long as you are living together.
Too much friction, aggression, blame, and pain in the family dynamic.
Nothing will change BH if you don't change it.
It sounds like you are literally making yourself sick trying to fix her.
The saddest thing is it won't work and will in fact make things worse.
I tried to fix my addicted mother and sort out her problems and her minimize her pain for most of my
childhood and adult life. Very bad choice on my part in hindsight.
All I really managed to do was destroy my health, my career prospects, and nearly my marriage.
She stayed an enabled addicted alcoholic for just about her entire life until she was too weak to drink and smoke.
I still am living with the fallout some seven years after her death.
Not much to show for forty years of suffering, is it?
My personal experience is that you cannot save someone from themselves
no matter how much you love them, but you can sure go off the cliff with them
and nobody gets better.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: irvington, ny
Posts: 30
I am sorry for your loss and your pain.
Doctors can not disclose informations about patients, but as said above, can obtain informations by listening to others.
ISTOP (website to check where patients get medications and how they pay > insurance or cash) is very helpful but not available in every state. Sometimes pharmacies inform doctors about medications filled by other practitioners.
Signing a contract is a responsible demand by a physician. Doing urine toxicology for legally prescribed and non legally prescribed substances, and knowing how to interpret the result is probably the best tool a doctor has to assess if patient is "misrepresenting the truth", and to take appropriate actions. For a physician red flags are : urine positive for cocaine; urine positive for legal substances not prescribed by above physician; large amounts of a substance without metabolites ( indicates that patient is tampering with urine sample) . Physicians who don't follow these guidelines expose their patients and themselves to unnecessary harm. Physicians who don't have a basic understanding of the seriousness of addiction should no prescribe mind altering substances
Doctors can not disclose informations about patients, but as said above, can obtain informations by listening to others.
ISTOP (website to check where patients get medications and how they pay > insurance or cash) is very helpful but not available in every state. Sometimes pharmacies inform doctors about medications filled by other practitioners.
Signing a contract is a responsible demand by a physician. Doing urine toxicology for legally prescribed and non legally prescribed substances, and knowing how to interpret the result is probably the best tool a doctor has to assess if patient is "misrepresenting the truth", and to take appropriate actions. For a physician red flags are : urine positive for cocaine; urine positive for legal substances not prescribed by above physician; large amounts of a substance without metabolites ( indicates that patient is tampering with urine sample) . Physicians who don't follow these guidelines expose their patients and themselves to unnecessary harm. Physicians who don't have a basic understanding of the seriousness of addiction should no prescribe mind altering substances
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Bluehawaii
As of last night she doesn't think she is trying to help just more concerned for her self not getting in trouble.
The Dr said she talked to her lawyer ...why?
can get AD fired and her car taken away.
She had apparently no concern for her at all and basically wanted to drop her as a patient and me after all I wanted was help.
Ad was distraught and scared.
I have no idea what went on and I only hope she doesn't want her to sign that contract because she intends to keep giving her meds.
Or is it to cover her because she told me she had one.
What do you do dandelion?
Ad is not having a good day totally hurt and worried she will get her fired....
The Dr said she talked to her lawyer ...why?
can get AD fired and her car taken away.
She had apparently no concern for her at all and basically wanted to drop her as a patient and me after all I wanted was help.
Ad was distraught and scared.
I have no idea what went on and I only hope she doesn't want her to sign that contract because she intends to keep giving her meds.
Or is it to cover her because she told me she had one.
What do you do dandelion?
Ad is not having a good day totally hurt and worried she will get her fired....
ok, so your daughter gotta scare,if this tale is true. and prolly started thinkin
"hmmm, how can i turn this tale to make mom feel bad for me. maybe itll get her off my back for a while."
only saying that because at one time i was the lieing,cheating,stealing person and its what id do.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Soberpotamus
Bluehawaii, I am so sorry for your loss.
I stay mostly on the Recovery side of the forum, but I wanted to give you my condolences. I've lost a loved one to addiction as well.
I stay mostly on the Recovery side of the forum, but I wanted to give you my condolences. I've lost a loved one to addiction as well.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 8,998
Bluehawaii, it does indeed sound like you have done all you can do. Be as kind to yourself as possible.
I find that doctors are tools we can use for our own health but they are often out of their depth with many situations. Perhaps the treatment center will be able to help more than the medical profession.
Keep us posted and may angels watch over you and your family in this very difficult time.
I find that doctors are tools we can use for our own health but they are often out of their depth with many situations. Perhaps the treatment center will be able to help more than the medical profession.
Keep us posted and may angels watch over you and your family in this very difficult time.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Ok I admit she is more than likely snowing me .
I see the pattern but I also seen the Dr very scared and trying to cover up to me why she had her on so many meds.
She was scared and showing me records all I said was is this even legal? She was
Worried I said that and then started lying.
People don't sue in Canada but there has been a serious problem with prescription drugs in Canada.
There are just implementing strict guidelines and there have been Dr s losing priveledges.
That being said
*We have seen a rapid change in her behaviour since she got off new antidepressants.
*the death of her cousin
*we tried to lock her out
*we got on same page
*she hasn't gone out to party etc since Christmas Eve.
We spoke to the person in charge of the rehab I've been in touch with her since June.
She knows the story.
She says give her a chance, just one more, keep her close .
She's been through a lot with all that's been happening and her cousin s death .
We Wrote contract with her input as well.
Yes She paid rent
She is Waiting to decide on signing the contract till after the funeral.
I take that as she is really thinking about it and whether or not she can abide.
Her desire is to quit trying to do too much work all day study at night distant Ed.
She wants to go to school full time .1/2 year program
This will increase wage by 7 $ per hour get job and then move out.
I have never seen her want school so badly.
This has been her goal the last 6 months but frustrated by the time it's taking doing one course at a time only .
She is being weaned off lorazepam by Dr .
I know this is a long shot but we will see.She is telling me more and more everyday about her drug use. She use to deny this non stop.
I see the pattern but I also seen the Dr very scared and trying to cover up to me why she had her on so many meds.
She was scared and showing me records all I said was is this even legal? She was
Worried I said that and then started lying.
People don't sue in Canada but there has been a serious problem with prescription drugs in Canada.
There are just implementing strict guidelines and there have been Dr s losing priveledges.
That being said
*We have seen a rapid change in her behaviour since she got off new antidepressants.
*the death of her cousin
*we tried to lock her out
*we got on same page
*she hasn't gone out to party etc since Christmas Eve.
We spoke to the person in charge of the rehab I've been in touch with her since June.
She knows the story.
She says give her a chance, just one more, keep her close .
She's been through a lot with all that's been happening and her cousin s death .
We Wrote contract with her input as well.
Yes She paid rent
She is Waiting to decide on signing the contract till after the funeral.
I take that as she is really thinking about it and whether or not she can abide.
Her desire is to quit trying to do too much work all day study at night distant Ed.
She wants to go to school full time .1/2 year program
This will increase wage by 7 $ per hour get job and then move out.
I have never seen her want school so badly.
This has been her goal the last 6 months but frustrated by the time it's taking doing one course at a time only .
She is being weaned off lorazepam by Dr .
I know this is a long shot but we will see.She is telling me more and more everyday about her drug use. She use to deny this non stop.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Bekindalways
Bluehawaii, it does indeed sound like you have done all you can do. Be as kind to yourself as possible.
I find that doctors are tools we can use for our own health but they are often out of their depth with many situations. Perhaps the treatment center will be able to help more than the medical profession.
Keep us posted and may angels watch over you and your family in this very difficult time.
I find that doctors are tools we can use for our own health but they are often out of their depth with many situations. Perhaps the treatment center will be able to help more than the medical profession.
Keep us posted and may angels watch over you and your family in this very difficult time.
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