OT: the big matzo ball!

Old 01-13-2016, 09:34 PM
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OT: the big matzo ball!

So, you all know I've been dating a man for the past 9 months. I'm having some issues regarding his controlling nature. Now, to confess: he has an issue with MY controlling nature and I'm working on being receptive to his complaints about my controlling attitudes and behaviors.....old habits die hard, you know. We were away in Vegas last weekend and the story below is a brief recap of what happened.

Anybody remember the Seinfeld episode where George tells someone he loves her and it's not reciprocated? Well, that's what happened with me and my man. I had a few drinks the other night moving through me and I tend to get a bit loose lipped and wear my emotions on my sleeve more. I wasn't drunk but I was more open and I wound up telling him, "You know I love you right?" His response, "NO. Stop. It's too soon!" Umm, not the response a girl wants to hear.

Quick background of us: we're both mid 40s. I'm recently divorced, which some of you are aware, (in the last year after a 20 year marriage) and he's been divorced for 3 years (after a 10 year marriage) and has had one other 1 year relationship right out of his marriage/during the separation, etc. I had a few flings last spring but I have been dating him since April pretty much exclusively.

I was not angry with him at first, just more in shock. I asked him, "Too soon? For whom? you or me?" He kinda fumbled through it and said, "for you."

So, we talked about it the next day. I accused him of projecting his previous 1 year relationship on me because he wasn't ready to commit to his prior girlfriend. He agreed that was part of his reasoning. He also said, "You have to look into your options. Maybe you will meet someone who has grown kids and is in a similar place as you are? We're in very different places. I'm in the midst of child rearing my 2 young girls. Your son will be graduating soon and your life will be changing. I just don't want you to rush into things, blah blah blah"
My response? Gee, thanks for your opinion but how about letting ME decide what's right for me and letting me choose who to be in a relationship with, etc? I told him it was hurtful the way his response came across.

He tried to 'remind' me that he has 2 young children and my response was: Umm, do you think I haven't considered that? I know fully well what I'm getting with you. Why are you pushing me to 'find myself' or 'find someone else'?

So, I don't know if he's just afraid of commitment or if he's afraid that I'll tuck tail and run or if he is just thinking he's being NICE by reminding me that I have options?

And, in the past few months we've grown so much closer, at least I thought so. HIs 7 year old daughter even told me she loved me on New Years Eve. We've gotten our kids together and they've laughed and played Nerf wars. His kids will hug me and they have asked him if we're going to get married.

He calls me every day, texts me daily, is kind to me and is a very devoted and doting man when we're together. At one point a few months ago, I asked him if he had any fears in regards to relationships. In my mind, I figure everyone does if you've loved or been in relationships enough, right? He told me that he didn't have any relationship fears, that he would never stay in a relationship if it wasn't working for him, and that he'd never force another relationship to work because life is too short. He's very direct, he's often a bit insensitive with his comments and I've learned to just tell him he was hurtful or that what he said was insulting, etc. He usually looks shocked and immediately apologizes.

So, I'm confused. The man has had quite a few long term relationships and a college girlfriend which lasted 5 years. He's friends on FB with 2 of his most recent ex girlfriends, which tells me that they don't see him as an a-hole. He's obviously experienced with relationships so I figured he'd have more tact. UGH....he's testing my patience.
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:11 PM
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Liza - I'm sure you will get lots of different opinions here is my .02

I'd be more than a little concerned. I think sometimes we can get caught up in the psychology of past relationships and blah, blah, blah....sure they may have some influence. Such as, those of us that have been with an A won't go down that path again maybe to the extent of not being with someone who drinks at all.

However, his projection of telling you how YOU should be feeling, and pointing out to YOU the downsides of dating him is huge red flags to me. You aren't that far from having dated a year. The "L" word at the point isn't inappropriate or rushed. I suppose he could be passive aggressive in a round about way and trying to clarify how you feel about his situation, but seems you haven't given him any reason to be concerned.

He sounds to me like a guy who doesn't want to get remarried and perhaps thinks this is where it is heading. If he doesn't have any relationship fears why is he bringing up things that one should be fearful about?? Like your girlfriend dumping you because she is fed up with dealing with your young kids as her own have moved on???

Something isn't adding up, at least not to me.
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:29 PM
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Redatlanta, I'm right there with you. His girls have asked him when we're getting married. I have spent a lot of time with them over the past month. I mean, why get me around your kids if you don't see a future with us together, right?

Also, when we first started dating he made a lot of references to the fact that his girls' stepmom will have trouble because she will be coming into the girl's lives right when they're going through pre-puberty/puberty.

And, when he took me to check out the model homes where he's building his new home, he made a statement about the real possibility that it will be more than just he and the girls in the new house eventually. Which all gives the impression that he DOES want to marry or be in a live in long term relationship in the future. Then, he goes and says stuff and does stuff like he did this past weekend and I'm like: SAY WHAT?

And, recently he's really stepped up his commitment level to our relationship: calling me everyday, texting me often, involving me in HUGE decisions that he has to make regarding his rental home and new home purchase, etc. I truly feel that we're friends and lovers, you know? He turns to me for advice for everything and I can see that our relationship is truly progressing on the intimacy levels, as well. How can I deny all of that but then get so confused by his words?

and, FWIW: I did call him out on his crap. I didn't let him get away with controlling me with how he 'thought' I should feel and I made it clear that I felt he was quite good at projecting but that I felt he should learn to stay on his side of the street.

Anyway, maybe time will tell more? I do love the man. He treats me quite well and doesn't seem to have a lot of hang ups. He's emotionally stable, doesn't freak out about ANYTHING, has great kids, is reliable, dependable, accountable, and I am totally HOT for him, LOL. God, I wish he was ugly, I'd maybe have a better chance at walking away, haha!
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:05 AM
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Good Morning Liza
OK... Here's my .02
An argument of sorts about exchanging "I love you's" with a man you've been dating since April?
Please listen to what he is saying in his responses to you. It sounds to me as if he is not as emotionally involved as you are at this point. I may be wrong, this is just my take on what you have written.
Try to take a little step back... See what happens...
Wishing you nothing but THE BEST.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:24 AM
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What is the status of your relationship? Have you had a discussion regarding your commitment level? Does he refer to you as his GF? Have you all agreed to be exclusive with each other?

I'm not intimating that he is seeing other people I don't see any evidence of that. These are normal conversations a couple would have, and I am wondering if you have? The only thing I will say in his defense now that I think about it, is that I have known a FEW women with kids below 18 that have kept a distance to an extent with the person they are dating. They don't want to put their kids through 'losing" another person because they already have once in a divorce.

Here we have the actions to the positive with the words that aren't matching, its usually the other way around. I agree with Lilro I would take a step back. I do think a conversation is in order here clarifying where you both are at the commitment level, and where you see the relationship headed, inclusive of marriage (do you want to get remarried someday - does he?).
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:10 AM
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Liz.....I am of the same mind as Lilro.....what do you have to loose by backing off a bit....? .....and, cooling down the jets, a bit...

As I see it...there are also two important issues to consider...
One is that there are two youngish children to consider...their emotions have gotten involved, also. There is o ne current poster whose son is having a hard time because she and her "man" moved in together....early on...and their sons become bonded....the relationship went south and now the boys are heartbroken......
The kids are always vulnerable in blended famiy situations....

The other concern which comes to my mind is the issue of his apparent financial success. Which, in itself, is not a sin (lol), but it can be a giant attraction vehicle to someone who has deep seated fears in this area.
I noticed, recently, that you mentioned, in someone else's thread.....that financial fears kept you years in a bad relationship, beyond when you should have left.
You have mentioned the house that he is building..a large house.... Liz....that is Giant nest-building..with all the good stuff that that implies.....
I can only surmize that that must be plucking the violin strings of your heart....
Be careful that you are not getting blinded......

Here, the old Bob Dillon song comes to mind.....

"If I were a carpenter
and, you were a lady
Would you marry me, anyway
would you have my baby.....?"

I used to ask myself that question of anyone I was developing a great interest in......

I'm just saying....just food for deep thought....

Another thought...(through a l ooking glass, darkly).....Your earlier posts, last spring, you mentioned that he could be insensitive in some of his remarks (which you defended as being "direct")......and, you mentioned that he had a hard time making eye contact when engaged in conversation......

I am thinking that there m ay be some conflict in Communication Styles, here.
(Is it any wonder that the most common word in the vocabulary of marital therapists is "Communication".
Now...I believe that 9 is quite possible to have strong "love" - type emotions....and, it is natural to share that with the other......
The issue, I that he was very guarded in what he shared with you.....
He couldn't seem to share with you what he was feeling.....He did name a fear of his (too soon)....but, did not seem open to sharing the exact basis of his fears......
He sounds very guarded about me....

I will share my story about my early relationship with my dear departed husband.....
The "love word" came up at about 3-plus months (by him)......I was feeling the exact same way.....Right there..on the spot...we had a long come-to Jesus talk about what love and marriage meant to each of us....
We both had been hurt in the our previous relationships...and, neigher wanted to ever walk that road again.....
We made a contract, right there, that we would let the future unfold, naturally....and, that, if either one of us began thinking "I want out"....all we had to do was to say that...and---we would be free to exit the relationship---with no recrim inations.....
We further agreed to keep the "love information" between ourselves, only...and not announce anything for another 18 months.
that is exactly what we did....
It was the most wonderful marriage....I still thank god, every day, that I had the privilege of having him in my life...

but Liz....prior to that relationship....I had had my heart broken into tiny little bits by someone who I was "in love" with...... So, you never know...especially, so early on..... It takes a long time to get to know someone, deeply.....

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Old 01-14-2016, 09:50 AM
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We often say here to look at someone's actions more than their words. What you relate is a man allowing you a lot of access into all of the facets of his life - including his children.

You wrote a while back Liz that you were anxious about saying, I love you. Maybe you could journal a bit on why you felt it necessary to nail this relationship down. Was it a control move on your part?

As for 'pulling back', I see the worth in focusing back on you. Don't you dislike your job? Maybe its time to update your resume and network. As the job market comes back after the holidays, you are ready and able to whiz off a bunch of applications one night a week or have lunch with someone has works where you want to work or has the job you want someday. Invest some time into your economic future. Take that emotional sting and use it for your own good.

Take care Liz!
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:50 AM
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If I may toss in my .02

Having once been in my mid-40's ( not _that_ long ago ) and looking at your description of your b/f what I see is a nasty mid-life crisis.

What stands out the most is keeping his 2 ex's as friends on FB. As a guy, that is completly the most stupid thing you could ever do. You _never_ do _anything_ to threaten your current relationship by holding on to some older ones. That is practically the first lesson in dating you learn in High School.

Building a "harem" of ex-g/f's is a classic symptom of mid-life crisis.

The next issue I have is his _not_ saying "I love you". Come on! Another lesson us guys learn from the very start is that if you are not willing to say those words you've got no business getting into a relationship. 9 months is plenty of time for him to get it thru his thick skull that you are serious about the relationship.

My perspective, based only on what you have written about him, is that he's nowhere near as invested in the relationship as you are.

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Old 01-14-2016, 11:28 AM
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Can I approach this from a different side? He has two young girls who he knows are getting mighty attached to you. I would hesitate, too, if DS was so attached to a new man in my life. And, yes, I think almost one year is still pretty new. Especially if you're hoping the relationship lasts 10, 25, 50 years.

Another thought is, he may be feeling a bit rushed. By his girls, by your "I love you", by his own visions of a future with a house with more than just him and his girls. I think it's a good sign that he's wanting to slow things down; kind of give every one a chance to catch their breath and look around at what is *now*.

I asked him, "Too soon? For whom? you or me?" He kinda fumbled through it and said, "for you."

So, we talked about it the next day. I accused him of projecting his previous 1 year relationship on me because he wasn't ready to commit to his prior girlfriend. He agreed that was part of his reasoning. He also said, "You have to look into your options. Maybe you will meet someone who has grown kids and is in a similar place as you are? We're in very different places. I'm in the midst of child rearing my 2 young girls. Your son will be graduating soon and your life will be changing. I just don't want you to rush into things, blah blah blah"
He admitted he might be projecting his last relationship onto this one. He's willing to look at his own behavior and feelings and take responsibility for them. I personally don't really see his comment as being controlling. I see it as him bringing up a valid point for consideration. Besides him, you've only had a couple flings after a long marriage. A marriage that nearly reached the quarter of a century mark. I don't see his comments, as you related here, as him telling you how you feel. I see him pointing out that you haven't really seen who else is out there besides him and your ex-husband.

I see him pointing out that your son is almost off to college, but his girls are much younger. In some cases, that might make a huge difference, one that in the first blush of romance may not have been considered. He may wonder if you will later stop, look around and think, "I've already raised my kid. I've already gone through this. I'm done. I do NOT want to raise any more."

Perhaps as you continue to date, it would help to discuss if he's afraid he's your "rebound" relationship and your reasons behind why you think it's not? Or have serious discussions about how you both feel about raising kids - more kids - kids who are not biologically your own. Kids who have other parents who are going to be peripherally involved in your lives because of the kids.
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:23 PM
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I guess I'm in the minority here. While I agree that it's a red flag worth noting and it warrants you keeping an eye on things, I also find that as we all get older, and we have more and more baggage that we carry around with us, all of us have random, knee-jerk reactions to things that trigger us for one reason or another and that we wish we could do over.

It would have upset me, too, to be on the receiving end of a reaction like that. I'm glad you called him out on the fact that he was projecting his stuff onto you, and basically telling you how you should feel. But I also agree that it's the actions that are the most important thing. And his ACTIONS show a commitment to you and your relationship. Who knows what things in his past may have prompted his reaction? Perhaps his rebound relationship involved early declarations of deep love and planning for a future. Or perhaps the partner in that relationship assumed those things were coming, and he has guilty, or fear, surrounding that. The possibilities are literally endless. I'm not advocating giving your guy a free pass to act like a controlling jerk. I'm simply saying that if this incident was an anomaly, don't forget to remember the good stuff, too.
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:31 PM
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I have nothing to chime in with regarding your significant other.

Can I just comment on how awesome your recovery is looking on you? Expressing emotions, not getting a response you were comfortable with, then expressing more emotions (and being clear on what was yours and what was not).

This is not me wishing any ill will on your relationship, but in the big picture "Who Cares," how it works out......because you are learning, loving and kicking butt! You seem to be working through with grace and style some huge pieces for your own healing.
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery View Post

I have nothing to chime in with regarding your significant other.

Can I just comment on how awesome your recovery is looking on you? Expressing emotions, not getting a response you were comfortable with, then expressing more emotions (and being clear on what was yours and what was not).

This is not me wishing any ill will on your relationship, but in the big picture "Who Cares," how it works out......because you are learning, loving and kicking butt! You seem to be working through with grace and style some huge pieces for your own healing.
Absolutely this--you've traveled light years in recovery.
No matter what, you are building a relationship with you.
Be sure to nurture and care for it even more than the romantic one
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:58 PM
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^ yep! Good for YOU!
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:04 PM
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I would just like to say ,Take care of Liz.

Something about this has a familiar ring to it. Recently, my 28 year old daughter ended a 3 year relationship with her 30 year old guy. I really thought he was the one. He was a super great guy, fit in well with the family, had an excellent job, They had been shopping for a new home together, and I was expecting an engagement announcement at any given moment............ So they were going thru all the proper and correct steps except for one tiny little detail. Turns out he simply was noncommittal.

He had a completely different agenda, timeframe, etc. He didn't have a problem with waiting til 40 to have kids, wanted to do alot of traveling on his own.

We never really know what the other person is actually thinking and feeling. Guess if I could have a super power , I would really like to read minds.
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:37 PM
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Ok, everyone. To answer a few questions:
We have established that we are boyfriend/girlfriend and that we are exclusive and committed to each other.
He talks about things in the future and I am usually included in those plans.

As for the harem thing on FB, lol. Well, I am still 'friends' with my spring fling guy on FB too so what does that say about me? I'm also friends with men who have shown interest in me who are waiting to see if I become available soon.....again, should I be or shouldn't I be friends with them. I don't put much weight on FB stuff. I trust my guy because he's given me NO reason to not trust him.

And, here's the other things guys: I am not even sure I want to get married in the future or even live with a man ever again. He, on the other hand, has made quite a few references to doing both of those things. I've kept my mouth shut. And, here's where he may be leery of being in a relationship with ME. When he talks about having a woman living with him in the future, I disappear from the conversation or change the subject. I don't sit there and say, "Yeah, baby, maybe it will be you and me in that bedroom. Where should we put the bed?"

There is a possibility that even though I am capable of expressing 'love' with my words that maybe I'm not in a place where I can be 100% in the relationship as much as I think I want to be. I have chosen to stay in this relationship because he treats me well, he's taught me that saying what I mean is OK and that I can trust him to say what he means as well. He's been my biggest cheerleader when it comes to my job stuff and just yesterday told me, "Liz, whatever job you choose, you will be great at. I believe in you."

He sends me pics of the kids and asks how my son is doing always. He tells me he misses me. He acts in a loving manner towards me and I've never felt objectified or manipulated or judged for just being myself.

We are all broken people just trying to find our place in this world, and that includes me. I am just as much a relationship risk to him as he may be to me. Heck, just a few months ago I found myself in a sexting situation with an old friend of mine that was HIGHLY inappropriate and devalued myself and would be hurtful to my guy. SO, for god's sake....I'm certainly no angel here and may even be experiencing my own 'mid life crisis' here, too, lol.

I am responsible for my actions, my feelings, my space, and my financial future. I have no desire to have my guy provide for me or pay my way in the future. I have no fantasies here about him or about me and I feel that I left denial in the past.
Maybe he's giving me a gift by letting things taking longer to unfold?

As my sponsor has said: More will be revealed. When I told him last week that we should just take things one day at a time and just enjoy each other's company, I meant it. I realized that I said the L word too soon, even for myself. Some days I don't even know what love is having never had true healthy love in my life romantically in the past before.

And, here's what's funny; the few days following that conversation he was more romantic, opened up to me about a few of his fears about his health, his kids, and his work that he hadn't revealed to me before, etc. I feel like he has taken down a wall since I told him I loved him. So, while he may think I jumped the gun, maybe it was what we both needed? Maybe he needs more time to SPEAK it and maybe I need more time to just comprehend what LOVE really is? Only God knows these things and I choose to put my relationship in His hands.
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:19 PM
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Hey there lizatola, I want to share with you an excerpt from the book "The mastery of love" that may help you with this situation. It is a bit of a long read, but it's worth it.

The Man Who Didn't Believe in Love

I want to tell you a very old story about the man who didn't believe in love. This was an ordinary man just like you and me, but what made this man special was his way of thinking: He thought love doesn't exist. Of course, he had a lot of experience trying to find love, and he had observed the people around him. Much of his life had been spent searching for love, only to find that love didn't exist.

Wherever this man went, he used to tell people that love is nothing but an invention of the poets, an invention of religions just to manipulate the weak mind of humans, to have control over humans, to make them believe. He said that love is not real, and that's why no human could ever find love even though he might look for it.

This man was highly intelligent, and he was very convincing. He read a lot of books, he went to the best universities, and he became a respected scholar. He could stand in any public place, in front of any kind of people, and his logic was very strong. What he said was that love is just like a drug; it makes you very high, but it creates a strong need. You can become highly addicted to love, but what happens when you don't receive your daily doses of love? Just like a drug, you need your everyday doses.

He used to say that most relationships between lovers are just like a relationship between a drug addict and the one who provides the drugs. The one who has the biggest need is like the drug addict; the one who has a little need is like the provider. The one who has the little need is the one who controls the whole relationship. You can see this dynamic so clearly because usually in every relationship there is one who loves the most and the other who doesn't love, who only takes advantage of the one who gives his or her heart. You can see the way they manipulate each other, their actions and reactions, and they are just like the provider and the drug addict.

The drug addict, the one who has the biggest need, lives in constant fear that perhaps he will not be able to get the next dosage of love, or the drug. The drug addict thinks, "What am I going to do if she leaves me?" That fear makes the drug addict very possessive. "That's mine!" The addict becomes jealous and demanding, because the fear of not having the next dosage. The provider can control and manipulate the one who needs the drug by giving more doses, fewer doses, or no doses at all. The one who has the biggest need completely surrenders and will do whatever he can to avoid being abandoned.

The man went on explaining to everyone why love doesn't exist. "What humans call `love' is nothing but a fear relationship based on control. Where is the respect? Where is the love they claim to have? There is no love. Young couples, in front of the representation of God, in front of their family and friends, make a lot of promises to each other: to live together forever, to love and respect each other, to be there for each other, through the good times and the bad times. They promise to love and honor each other, and make promises and more promises. What is amazing is that they really believe these promises. But after the marriage -one week later, a month later, a few months later -you can see that none of these promises are kept.

"What you find is a war of control to see who will manipulate whom. Who will be the provider, and who will have the addiction? You find that a few months later, the respect they swear to have for each other is gone. You can see the resentment, the emotional poison, how they hurt each other, little by little, and it grows and grows, until they don't know when the love stops. They stay together because they are afraid to be alone, afraid of the opinions and judgments of others, and also afraid of their own judgments and opinions. But where is the love?"

He used to claim that he saw many old couples that had lived together thirty years, forty years, fifty years, and they were so proud to have lived together all those years. But when they talked about their relationship, what they said was, "We survived the matrimony." That means one of them surrendered to the other; at a certain time, she gave up and decided to endure the suffering. The one with the strongest will and less need won the war, but where is that flame they call love? They treat each other like a possession: "She is mine." "He is mine."

The man went on and on about all the reasons why he believed love doesn't exist, and he told others, "I have done all that already. I will no longer allow anyone to manipulate my mind and control my life in the name of love." His arguments were quite logical, and he convinced many people by all his words. Love doesn't exist.

Then one day this man was walking in a park, and there on a bench was a beautiful lady who was crying. When he saw her crying, he felt curiosity. Sitting beside her, he asked if he could help her. He asked why she was crying. You can imagine his surprise when she told him she was crying because love doesn't exist. He said, "This is amazing - a woman who believes that love doesn't exist!" Of course, he wanted to know more about her.

"Why do you say that love doesn't exist?" he asked. "Well, it's a long story," she replied. "I married when I was very young, with all the love, all these illusions, full of hope that I would share my life with this man. We swore to each other our loyalty, respect, and honor, and we created a family. But soon everything changed. I was the devoted wife who took care of the children and the home.

My husband continued to develop his career and his success and image outside of home was more important to him than our family. He lost respect for me, and I lost respect for him. We hurt each other, and at a certain point I discovered that I didn't love him and he didn't love me either.

"But the children needed a father, and that was my excuse to stay and to do whatever I could to support him. Now the children are grown and they have left. I no longer have any excuse to stay with him. There's no respect, there's no kindness. I know that even if I find someone else, it's going to be the same, because love doesn't exist. There is no sense to look around for something that doesn't exist. That is why I am crying."

Understanding her very well, he embraced her and said, "You are right; love doesn't exist. We look for love, we open our heart and we become vulnerable, just to find selfishness. That hurts us even if we don't think we will be hurt. It doesn't matter how many relationships we have; the same thing happens again and again. Why even search for love any longer?"

They were so much alike, and they became the best friends ever. It was a wonderful relationship.

They respected each other, and they never put each other down. With every step they took together, they were happy. There was no envy or jealousy, there was no control, there was no possessiveness. The relationship kept growing and growing. They loved to be together, because when they were together they had a lot of fun. When they were not together, they missed each other.

One day when the man was out of town, he had the weirdest idea. He was thinking, "Hmm, maybe what I feel for her is love. But this is so different from what I have ever felt before. It's not what the poets say it is, it's not what religion says, because I am not responsible for her. I don't take anything from her; I don't have the need for her to take care of me; I don't need to blame her for my difficulties or to take my dramas to her. We have the best time together; we enjoy each other. I respect the way she thinks, the way she feels. She doesn't embarrass me; she doesn't bother me at all. I don't feel jealous when she's with other people; I don't feel envy when she is successful.

Perhaps love does exist, but it's not what everyone thinks love is."

He could hardly wait to go back home and talk to her, to let her know about his weird idea. As soon as he started talking, she said, "I know exactly what you are talking about. I had the same idea long ago, but I didn't want to share it with you because I know you don't believe in love. Perhaps love does exist, but it isn't what we thought it was." They decided to become lovers and to live together, and it was amazing that things didn't change. They still respected each other, they were still supportive of each other, and the love grew more and more. Even the simplest things made their hearts sing with love because they were so happy.

The man's heart was so full with all the love he felt that one night a great miracle happened. He was looking at the stars and he found the most beautiful one, and his love was so big that the star started coming down from the sky and soon that star was in his hands. Then a second miracle happened, and his soul merged with that star. He was intensely happy, and he could hardly wait to go to the woman and put that star in her hands to prove his love to her. As soon as he put the star in her hands, she felt a moment of doubt. This love was overwhelming, and in that moment, the star fell from her hands and broke in a million little pieces.

Now there is an old man walking around the world swearing that love doesn't exist. And there is a beautiful old woman at home waiting for a man, shedding a tear for a paradise that once she had in her hands, but for one moment of doubt, she let it go. This is the story about the man who didn't believe in love.

Who made the mistake? Do you want to guess what went wrong? The mistake was on the man's part in thinking he could give the woman his happiness. The star was his happiness, and his mistake was to put his happiness in her hands. Happiness never comes from outside of us. He was happy because of the love coming out of him; she was happy because of the love coming out of her. But as soon as he made her responsible for his happiness, she broke the star because she could not be responsible for his happiness.

No matter how much the woman loved him, she could never make him happy because she could never know what he had in his mind. She could never know what his expectations were, because she could not know his dreams.

If you take your happiness and put it in someone's hands, sooner or later, she is going to break it. If you give your happiness to someone else, she can always take it away. Then if happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love, you are responsible for your happiness. We can never make anyone responsible for our own happiness, but when we go to the church to get married, the first thing we do is exchange rings. We put our star in each other's hands, expecting that she is going to make you happy, and you are going to make her happy. It doesn't matter how much you love someone, you are never going to be what that person wants you to be.

That is the mistake most of us make right from the beginning. We base our happiness on our partner, and it doesn't work that way. We make all those promises that we cannot keep, and we set ourselves up to fail.
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:09 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
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Wellll, Liz.....if you have, as you say..."established that you are exclusive and committed to each other" and you have already said the LOVE word.....perhaps it is time to be completely honest and transparent about your feelings and intentions.....just exactly as you have explained them to us...?
If you can tell people that you have never m et and will probably never should be able to tell as much to someone that you have an intimate relationship with......don't you think...?

Don't you think that he needs to know that you are not sure if you ever want to get married or ever l ive with a man again...and, that you are "not 100 per cent sure that you are in a place th at you can be 100 per cent in a relationship....
If he were feeling those same things...wouldn't you want him to let you know...

True emotional intimacy is being able to share the truth with each other.....even the confusing and scarey stuff....and your own fears.....

The courage and wiliness to be mutually vulnerable with ech other.....
And, if that is too threatening or too scarey, or whatever....maybe the best thing is to cool the jets for a while and see what is revealed.......

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Old 01-17-2016, 04:35 PM
  # 18 (permalink)  
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To me your response is perplexing.

You wrote about how the situation was upsetting with lots of mixed signals. Now you are writing that you are messed up, you have decided that you probably jumped the gun on the L word. In your initial post you seemed to be very sure about how you feel, and offended at his response. Now you are listing all the things wrong with you, and all the things right with him.

From everything you have written this guy sounds good. Good for you, and you sound good for him. It sounds like you really enjoy each other, and there is minimal drama. if you feel this: I am not even sure I want to get married in the future or even live with a man ever again. and maybe I'm not in a place where I can be 100% in the relationship as much as I think I want to be. then perhaps his hesitancy to say he loves you isn't important.

I say just enjoy it for what it is - something that makes you happy. If at any time in the future you are looking for further commitment you can discuss with him then.
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:01 PM
  # 19 (permalink)  
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Yep, because I'm probably confused in my own head. As for jumping the gun; I
Just meant with saying I love you, not that I have doubts about loving him. I know I love him. I also know we're both broken people with divorces under our belt. Neither one of us is perfect.
We seem to be good for each other today. Next month, next year, etc will just have to fall into place as time passes. I was just pointing out that I'm just as fallible as he is and maybe I bring my own red flags into a relationship? I'm trying to homestly look at both sides.
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