Liveitwell

Ended up resenting all of your husbands or wives friends bc all they did was get drunk and act deplorably together? I find that's sonethimg hard for me to let go of. For years my then husband held himself out to be nicer and truer than all of his friends-he'd tell me that they cheated, were into porn, talked disgustingly about women and went to strip clubs, etc....things I finally drew the line in the sand about. And my husband did actually not go to two bachelor party strip clubs and risked friendships bc of my beliefs-and he told me they were his beliefs as well. But it became obvious they were not-when drunk he would hold it over my head and blame me for not letting him go and taking away his friemds. When I drew lines in the sand about what was appropriate at my home with young kids and behaviors I wouldn't allow, I never once told him not to be friends with his peeps, I just stated they were not to come over if all they were going to do was get drunk. I actually really liked some of his friends but my morals and values changed drastically and I got real about what was okay and not okay in my marriage-things a normal husband would respond to, right?! And then I started seeing my husbands actions turn into the people he always said he was better than-seeking out porn, talking so disgustingly to me I felt like I was in a porn sometimes, discussing our marital issues (not honestly at all!) with other women that he worked with, touching my horribly inappropriately in front of friends and familu, etc. I am starting to realize HE never had thoe beliefs-he just acted like he did to snare me. That's what it feels like looking back. He always told me he would never cheat-I doubt that is true-in fact it's most likely not the case at all. He stated he would never do anything that his mom or sister wouldn't approve of....which y'all that know the back story and values of his mom and sister know that's not saying much at all. His friends would get drunk and start talking disgustingly about me too-and about their wives, etc. I hated it and I was blamed for speaking up. I felt like I was in highschool. I feel like he took everything I stood for and called it his own and then blamed me for it. I think this is the hardest thing to get over-feeling like I never knew the real him-just knew who he portrayed himself to be to me-which was very different than what he showed others. Then at the end he was just disgusting most of the time-told me he was sick of being some on he wasbt and that he had turned himself inside out for me and lost his friends bc nobody wanted to come over bc I was so awful to be around. Well, yes, I no longer desired to party and I didn't want it at my home. So, I was awful. I look back and see that I hated each and every time he would leave to go hang out with someone bc every single time it would involve him just going AWOL, turning off his phone and doing whatever he damn well pleased with no regard for anyone else-abd usually coming home **** faced. I ended up hating him leaving....bc I knew what was coming home. And none of his friends or family knew how he treated me or his daughter. Don't even know if they would care, regardless. I think I wrestle with this.....the last thing holding me to not fully moving on.....was it ever really real? Was it all fake? Birds of a feather flock together so he just pretended to be something different so I would like him? Damnit-I thought he was a good guy. I'm starting to feel I was misled all along. It was all a lie. And I don't know how to deal with that...."let it go" is not working right now. And I know it doesn't even matter-bc it's over and done with , thankfully, but my heart just wants to know-but I guess I'll never really know. Just have to keep moving forward. I thought it was real. I think I was very wrong.

Anyway, after the holidays I've found myself very introspective.......and I'm just having a hard time with the bigger questions, etc. Stuff I know I should not be giving any head space to....but here I am rambling about **** in the past that doesn't matter today! Why ?!?! Help people!!

Wisconsin

I had a fairly similar experience. My STBXAH is in a skilled construction trade, and I firmly believe that at least two-thirds of his "union brothers" have substance abuse problems. For years my STBXAH and his one "union brother friend" who I knew well would talk about how much "better" they were than the other guys. THOSE guys cheated on their wives. THOSE guys did drugs in addition to drinking. This is the same friend my STBXAH traded a bunch of text messages with almost three years ago, about how they didn't want to be married anymore, and how women were only good for one thing, and how the friend was hit on in a bar and my STBXAH told him to "do what he needed to do." That incident was my rock bottom. Seeing those messages in black and white. It was also the very last time I snooped, because it was like a slap in the face how negatively snooping was impacting my own emotional health.

One difference, though, is that I don't know most of the other union brothers very well, so I don't have as much resentment toward them. My resentment, frankly, is focused more on the union itself. I am a very politically and socially liberal person, and I am a strong proponent of trade unions. But this union in particular goes to extreme, dangerous lengths to protect members' substance use and abuse.

Apart from the union, most of my remaining resentment is directed at STBXAH. Because when we reconnected and got married, he was sober and in recovery and he WAS "better" than most of his union brothers. And he still thinks he's "better" because he didn't cheat on me, or hit me, or use drugs. He will compare himself favorably with his union brothers until the day he dies or goes to jail. And perhaps the final great irony? Even though he will talk all day long about how much better he is than these other guys, he still defends every single one of them. They are really good guys. Misunderstood. Blah blah blah.

TropicalWinter

"the last thing holding me to not fully moving on.....was it ever really real? Was it all fake? Birds of a feather flock together so he just pretended to be something different so I would like him? Damnit-I thought he was a good guy. I'm starting to feel I was misled all along. It was all a lie."

This hits home for me, the feeling like I was misled, the not knowing the "real" him. I guess I will never really know because, being an addict since his teen years, AH doesn't know HIMSELF...

I feel like so many things that I once believed about our relationship were not actually real or true.

I think it's okay to think about these things and try to process, just not to the detriment of your happiness and well-being. Which can be a fine line to walk sometimes.

LexieCat

Well, I think we all tend to overlook a lot of things until, well, we STOP. As long as we feel like things will turn out OK, we excuse/rationalize a lot of plain bad behavior. And then when it becomes clear things are NOT OK, that as far as the relationship goes it will NEVER be OK, I think suddenly we start realizing how much BS we really put up with.

And maybe if things HAD turned out OK--he straightened out and got sober and became a good guy before too much damage was done, you'd still be overlooking the crappy behavior.

Does that make any sense? You're kind of examining everything right now, under a microscope, because you no longer have any stake in continuing the relationship.

Liveitwell

Yes-trying to process.....not at all a detriment to my own well being or happiness. I'm happy I'm out. That is not questionable. I just look back and see how much I changed-my values-what I was willing to fight for abd wabted in a marriage-in a good solid marriage built on Christian values-something I didn't do well for a long time. But when I sobered up and decided to finally walk the walk-be a disciple-try my hardest to do that-and live the Word-everything changed for me. My husband would go to church and feel good about himself and then get drunk and abuse his family the same day. I started seeing his thoughts were just like his dad's....sit there on his high horse and bitch about the rest of the world while drunk and not look at himself and what he was doing. Just like his dad. His dad was in seminary and going to be a priest but he led a life following the devil caged I a prison of his own making. My ex did the same. Wisconsin-I did resent his friends, two in particular, because I did finally get the nerve and cordage to reach out and ask them for help and nobody responded. I reached out multiple times and nothing. They had no idea what he was doing at home-or maybe they did and didn't care. Birds of a feather flock together. My ex wasn't any better than any of then-as he so claimed-he was the worst one of them all. A wounded soul looking for someone to accept him instead of fixing his wounding and growing up. I knuw-I know all this. Why is it haunting me right now? God is trying to show me this for a reasin-something I need to heal for sure. Will pray about it. That's all I got.

Liveitwell

Lexie-no truer words have been said...you definitely don't realize how bad it was until you get out and find some peace. I think that's the hard thing at times-is realizing just how bad and abusive things were....and realizing I did everything I could to make it stop-and all I ever had to do was just say NO more-I'm done. I wish I had said that 10 months in and not ten years in. #truth

Praying

I searched and searched and explored, wondering if two decades of my life were a lie...where I finally landed was this truth--it was all real FOR ME. I lived it all to the fullest and was all in. My memories are real. My life was real. So it was real.

My X found God while he was sleeping with another woman. He told me he was closer to God than ever before and God wasn't telling him to work on his marriage. (Was God scantily-clad...?)

Anyway, I've decided I don't think I ever truly knew him. But neither did he. He put on personalities and traits to fit situations, then discarded them for new ones.

But my life, my memories, my past...all REAL.

Liveitwell

Ha! ^ praying-not that anything you said was funny but I think my ex did the same thing-think he joined the Church while wed were still married after having already stepped out intimately with another. It was pretty obvious. I guess that's Godly to him. My ex did the same thing-instead of following the Word he would manipulate situations and people to use them for his bEnefit-while telling nobody the truth-half truths and plain lies were told to all parties-that's still the case today-just like yours-put on other personalities to suit his audience. No wonder he felt like he lost himself-he did-I don't think he even knew what he stood for or who he was. I do understand what you're saying. I guess that's how I need to look at it. I will think about your words-they make sense to me. I do know that if you don't stand for anything, you'll fall for everything. Sometimes, usually, taking a stand brings enemies-and that's ok. Friend, Thank you for replying.

Liveitwell

Praying-I guess that's my answer-all along. He was never who he said he was-he was who he was. Not all the talk about being a good husbabd and father-he just didn't wabt that life with me, his actions showed that loud and clear-although his words were sappy and loving at times. He wanted to do whatever he wanted to do regardless of who it hurt. Period. What's ironic and sad is that our marriage started out as "I'll take care if you forever-it's my responsibility to take care of my wife " to literally him saying a couple of weeks before I called the police on him "it's not my job to take care of you-all you and the kids do is bitch at me-I cant take care of your needs-God, someone always needs something". Yep.. Truth. He couldn't and didn't. He couldn't even take care of himself-and still cant. So be it. Words-I should have never listened to his lies and manipulations-I think that's all our relationship was. But it was real for me. That matters to me. It's his grave to lie in and his life to sort out with God. Not mine.

Bekindalways

Great discussion Fourourgirls but very painful.

I like what Tropical said, "I guess I will never really know because, being an addict since his teen years, AH doesn't know HIMSELF."

I choose to believe that all people are children of God and under all the horribleness of addiction there is a good person. That being said, I stay the hell-far-away from addicts and a lot of other people that are just too wounded to have a positive relationship. I bet you did see something truly good in this man but he likely will live out his life in a toxic, destructive way.

fourourgirls, I so admire you moving forward with your life. These events and betrayals may be in the past but the hurt that you experienced does not instantly heal. Unfortunately grieving takes time usually way more time than you want it to take. The more you try to skip past the grieving the longer it will take.

Forgiveness for everyone involved can also come. I mentioned in another thread that "the first step in forgiveness is saying 'I am not ready to forgive.'" For me forgiveness was a part of healing and it all just took time.

Keep the faith all. Keep healing, growing and posting. Thank you all for your courage and strength in walking these painful paths.

Lilro

Hi For,

Seriously, I could have written your post myself. It's unbelievable, right? I too am struggling, trying to figure it all out. It is so hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that I actually didn't really know my Exbf. How crazy is that? His friends, yes, his friends would ask me what I was doing with him. His friends wife told me years ago he was not a good person and would you believe I got mad at her for saying that to me?!?!?!? For someone who is pretty swift, I can't believe that he was able to manipulate me for as long as he did. ALL THE LIES....omg! It wasn't until I've stepped out of the situation with him within the last few months that I can finally see clearly... He's a drunk and he's a liar. It truly wasn't until I found SR that I realised exactly who I was dealing with.
I saw my therapist the other day. I have been going to him since before I got divorced so I would say monthly for a good 10 years. I posed these questions to him. How could I have been so blind? What kind of person does that? How does he look at himself in the mirror every morning knowing what he has done? And more importantly, how can I release all this anger I have? I know you know For how pissed I am from reading some of my responses to these postings here on SR. It's been 24/7 for me these past few months. I wake up angry, go to bed angry and even dream of this dirtbag.. I want to move on mentally.
My therapist said to me that I was dealing with a very sick man. That I didn't see it clearly because I loved him. But now it is time to release his negative energy and stop allowing him to take up so much space in my head.
This is what I am going to try to work on...
Was it real? I don't know if it was on his end, I think it was... Why else would he have bought a house for us? It was real on my end.. I loved him like no other. I hope one day soon I can shake this off and only remember the good, there was plenty of it... Maybe that's why it hurts so much, who knows? We'll get there together For.
Xoxo. Ro

Liveitwell

Oh Bekind-I saw so much good in him. There was a ton of good-that slowly went away. He treated everyone else like gold and me and his family like crap. His mask to the world. He was not always like that-so grieving what could have been and knowing the good in him (even as he has just continued his abuse, etc)-yes, it's hard.

Liveitwell

Love you, RO!! My therapist has stated the same thing. My ex has great parts-but he is a drunk and a liar. Those things will be his demise and have brought him much destruction already-I guess he's not had his fill yet. Scary to think about the next "yet". But, not my life. My choices are not his. He's a big boy (?) and can deal with his choices all on his own. But yes, the good definitely breaks my heart at times. But the deeper into addiction they go, the deeper the narcissism becomes and the good slowly fades and with it goes their honor, dignity and integrity. My ex is a drunk and a liar-that's all I need to know or think about going forward. The good mattered to me-more than anything-I was willing and did fight for him abd our marriage and family-I prayed every night while he was outside drinking by himself that God make him stop/and after he would abuse me I would pray for him. Obviously those things did not matter to him. I was fighting the devil and lost....but I won my freedom. I know what I need to kniw-and it's sinking in. Love ya, friend.

hopeful4

I can only second what Lexie said, and offer you a huge hug. It's not easy. Recovery for years with an addict takes a long time, and some times will be easier than others. Keep moving forward, your progress is HUGE!

Many hugs!

Liveitwell

Thank you, friend! Moving forward indeed

LexieCat

As you said in your first post, this is stuff from the past that you really don't need to be giving all this head space to. I think it's fine to look at it, observe the fact that his choice in friends reflected his values, but don't spend too much energy focusing on it. They are resentments you'll want to deal with and then let go.

Have you done a Fourth Step? That's sort of a structured way to deal with resentments like these.

LifeRecovery

FOG-

I just had a conversation about this yesterday. Not with my husband's friends per say, but I am realizing that my behavior/reations with a lot of people put me in similar situations that I was in with my husband.

I had reasonable expectations of an intimate relationship......of my role as a wife, his as a husband etc. I have come to realize I have reasonable expecatations of freindships etc.

Though my expectations on a philosophical level are resonable.....I put them on someone who is incapable of meeting them, then I turn around and blame myself for them not working out. If I just said it right, made the environment right etc. I chose a problem drinker husband, I have a friend who struggles with significant bipolar disorder. Neither of them were individually a person who could be there for my expectations.

Two things came out of this conversation. One is that this behavior felt familiar to me from my childhood (and I have a handle on why). The second is that I can have expecations about relationships......but I need to start letting go of the "outcome" in any given individual. Their behavior, their willingness to look at their stuff etc will come out. I need to see it, name it, and choose what I am going to do with it......instead of trying to make it what I need or want. I am realizing that this behavior in me is still a way I try to control situations.

Great topic. Keep up the good work.

Liveitwell

Nope-need to do a fourth step.

dandylion

ForOurGirls......I am going to say what I find myself saying so many times.....to others on this forum......."This is a part of the grieving process". You must grieve before you can truly move on from a loss....

Tho other posters on this thread have all given very illuminating pieces of insight, I think.....
Yes---it was REAL to you!! Your thoughts were real and your feelings were real. We can never fully know that reality feels like to another person.....
And yes...like Lexie said....you are now "free" to look at the full impact of what was going on......you never would have been able to as long as you stayed I n the relationship......

It helps to recognize what grieving is like, I think. Reviewing the past is a great part of it.....We re-examine every piece of it...every molecule of it....we "process" all of it...and, the reframe our assessments in terms of our PRESENT reality. When we have done that enough that we can feel at peace with the incongruities between the past and our present (it takes a while).....then we feel "free" enough to let history be history ----and then we truly move on......

It hasn't been that long....you are still smack in the middle of grieving, in my opinion.
Another fact----grieving is not comfortable....it is very hard to look at some things....it is sometimes hard to come to acceptance of some things that happened.....
There are many emotions...like a kalidescope of emotions.....anger, sadness, regret,---and, many more.....

I think you may be expecting for it all to pass and be over too fast.....(who wouldn't?).
Grieving is the first step in healing...and, healing takes time....and, as Honeyopig is fond of saying: "Time takes TIME".......

I have been through the grieving process.....especially after my dear husband died, suddenly.....and, I have walked beside countless others who have gone through it.....
Trust me....this is a part of the journey....
Have patience and faith that this is a part of the living.....and you will, eventually, finish the healing process and come to an inner oeace about it.....

dandylion

Liveitwell

Grief-definitely a process not a step...grappling with that. Was it real? Yes. For me. Did I marry who I thought he was-who he said he was-who he swore he would be-or just him. That answer is becoming clearer each day. I guess still have to admit even after all he's done I am still nursing a broken heart-and broken dreams-but those dreams were not built on reality-who he truly was-they were built on his promises which were always empty-stil are. Shocker. Hard for me to admit. I'll get there-in my time. Praying for him helps ease the pain