Vent - manipulating the kids
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Trying to sort my day and thought I'd vent here. After Thanksgiving I asked my RA to move out with his kids (was intending us to discuss calmly and figure out how to approach all of our kids after the holidays, but he flew off the handle and yanked them from the house announcing that "you broke their hearts and it's on YOU!" So for the last month he's been gone. (It's been great!) He later apologized that "everyone has emotional reactions" though I disagree with the magnitude. It was a bit of a terrifying rage from a guy who had never been that way with me before.
Anyway, my son and his son were best friends. After RA calmed down, we left it that the boys could continue their relationship even though I wanted space. My son's been telling me he thinks RA doesn't want him to talk to or see his son "Mike", his buddy, after DS told Mike about a drinking bout that RA had been hiding from everyone. DS said Mike needed to know and as his friend he couldn't keep it from him. (RA said he was mad at first but recognized that those secrets are bad.) I've been suggesting that maybe DS is reading into the situation and to give it benefit of the doubt. He asked before xmas and RA said in January they could get together.
RA then texted me after xmas that he has grown tremendously and wants to share it with me and is hurt and sad when I don't respond to him and he doesn't want to just text me--he wants to see me and talk to me and meet with me. I was actually quite proud of my honest answer--that I can't be that for him now, and I can't meet with him. That I can't be his support system and this space is for me too. He said he accepted that and went from sweet to cold... Well, DS today said that Mike is pushing him off again, and asked me to find out what the deal is. (He's crushed at the loss of his friend.) So I finally did.
I texted RA and asked if there was a reason either he or Mike were uncomfortable getting together with DS, and to please let me know if that's the case so DS can stop asking. RA said that he's uncomfortable with Mike coming here because "Mike is very hurt" and he doesn't think Mike is emotionally ready to come here, but they could do things on neutral ground like meet to go sledding.
I showed DS (he's almost 14) and he said- he's blaming you! Mike isn't hurt because you asked RA to leave...he's hurt because of choices his DAD made...RA just doesn't want him to come have fun here because you won't let him back too. He's punishing all of us.
I admit I felt the same way.
I found myself getting really angry inside because he's been spouting recovery-speak and God talk and every word is about how far he's come in counseling, working the steps, etc. I know logically that it's been a month and I don't expect much, which is why I don't want to hear everything he claims he's doing...it's just words...but I was SO ANGRY... I think I've realized it's because he seems to be manipulating the kids (and may not even realize it). He's punishing them...and he knows that will get to me...and DS knew it while I was trying to offer benefit of the doubt...
Then RA said we should be discussing these things before an invitation occurs, and I was angry again...because last I heard it was fine and Mike could come in January...then RA changed his mind...and in true fashion didn't communicate with me...and I'm the one who's supposed to mind-read...and his words SOUND reasonable...
...but it was oh so clear to me that I made the absolute correct decision...
Anyway, I felt like I was overreacting, but I just want every ounce of this man out of my life. It kills me that our kids are so close. I want to tell DS to move on but that's not my place. He's spent the night face-timing with Mike and playing a computer game.
Grr...thanks for listening...
Anyway, my son and his son were best friends. After RA calmed down, we left it that the boys could continue their relationship even though I wanted space. My son's been telling me he thinks RA doesn't want him to talk to or see his son "Mike", his buddy, after DS told Mike about a drinking bout that RA had been hiding from everyone. DS said Mike needed to know and as his friend he couldn't keep it from him. (RA said he was mad at first but recognized that those secrets are bad.) I've been suggesting that maybe DS is reading into the situation and to give it benefit of the doubt. He asked before xmas and RA said in January they could get together.
RA then texted me after xmas that he has grown tremendously and wants to share it with me and is hurt and sad when I don't respond to him and he doesn't want to just text me--he wants to see me and talk to me and meet with me. I was actually quite proud of my honest answer--that I can't be that for him now, and I can't meet with him. That I can't be his support system and this space is for me too. He said he accepted that and went from sweet to cold... Well, DS today said that Mike is pushing him off again, and asked me to find out what the deal is. (He's crushed at the loss of his friend.) So I finally did.
I texted RA and asked if there was a reason either he or Mike were uncomfortable getting together with DS, and to please let me know if that's the case so DS can stop asking. RA said that he's uncomfortable with Mike coming here because "Mike is very hurt" and he doesn't think Mike is emotionally ready to come here, but they could do things on neutral ground like meet to go sledding.
I showed DS (he's almost 14) and he said- he's blaming you! Mike isn't hurt because you asked RA to leave...he's hurt because of choices his DAD made...RA just doesn't want him to come have fun here because you won't let him back too. He's punishing all of us.
I admit I felt the same way.
I found myself getting really angry inside because he's been spouting recovery-speak and God talk and every word is about how far he's come in counseling, working the steps, etc. I know logically that it's been a month and I don't expect much, which is why I don't want to hear everything he claims he's doing...it's just words...but I was SO ANGRY... I think I've realized it's because he seems to be manipulating the kids (and may not even realize it). He's punishing them...and he knows that will get to me...and DS knew it while I was trying to offer benefit of the doubt...
Then RA said we should be discussing these things before an invitation occurs, and I was angry again...because last I heard it was fine and Mike could come in January...then RA changed his mind...and in true fashion didn't communicate with me...and I'm the one who's supposed to mind-read...and his words SOUND reasonable...
...but it was oh so clear to me that I made the absolute correct decision...
Anyway, I felt like I was overreacting, but I just want every ounce of this man out of my life. It kills me that our kids are so close. I want to tell DS to move on but that's not my place. He's spent the night face-timing with Mike and playing a computer game.
Grr...thanks for listening...
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Praying......I am glad that you are at peace---that you made the right decision for you.
Peer relationships are soo important to kids of that age--especially, the ones that they regard as "best friend" status. It is so sad to break up such relationships.
If I were in your place...I would make every effort to facilitate the ongoing of what seems very important to your son (both of them).
At least, you ex seems agreeable that they be able to meet in neutral territory.
That would be good.....I think.... For age appropriate activities.....
There is always social media, etc.....the way kids seem to communicate, these days.
That would take the adults out of their relationship, for the most part,,,,and leave the friendship up to the boys.....
dandylion
Peer relationships are soo important to kids of that age--especially, the ones that they regard as "best friend" status. It is so sad to break up such relationships.
If I were in your place...I would make every effort to facilitate the ongoing of what seems very important to your son (both of them).
At least, you ex seems agreeable that they be able to meet in neutral territory.
That would be good.....I think.... For age appropriate activities.....
There is always social media, etc.....the way kids seem to communicate, these days.
That would take the adults out of their relationship, for the most part,,,,and leave the friendship up to the boys.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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Yeah, I agree. Your ex can decide whether to allow his son to hang out with yours--that's a parental right at that age--and it's your job to support your son, whatever the ex is doing. I think it's important for you to remind your son that Mike's dad has the right to make the rules for their house, whether you agree with the reasons or not, but that as far as you're concerned they can remain friends within the bounds of parental permission. It's good that your son sees the manipulation going on, but I'd be sort of a neutral observer here: "You could be right," rather than agreeing to the extent that it gets repeated to Mike, "My mom says your dad is..." Those kinds of active statements will likely find their way back to your ex, who might then cut things off between them completely on the grounds that you are undermining him with his son.
Complicated territory, but so far I think you're doing a great job!
Complicated territory, but so far I think you're doing a great job!
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
The reality is, some people make decisions that hurt everyone around them. To see those decisions hurt those you love is just awful. I'm going through this right now. It rips my heart out.
Stay strong and keep being the mom your kids need you to be. Keep reaching for peace.
Many hugs.
Stay strong and keep being the mom your kids need you to be. Keep reaching for peace.
Many hugs.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Thank you guys.
I harbor mom-guilt over how close these two boys are. It's a result of us living together...they even asked to share a room.
This is part of why it was so hard to do the right thing for me here...because of what it would do to the kids...but I can't play martyr and fake a decade or more with an addict after finally ending my marriage to DS's father a few years ago--if it doesn't get better it gets worse. And I've seen much worse.
I apologized to DS yesterday for bringing this into our lives. He knows it's the right thing and said he wished he had known this could happen and hadn't gotten so close to Mike.
I think this is healthy guilt because I DID allow this situation to develop. So I need to learn the hard lesson and accept my mistake in this. DS tried to blame RA for ruining our lives...lol...I reminded him I'm an adult, my life is quite good, and I made the decision to let RA in, which was a mistake. I own that, not RA.
Hopefully he'll learn from it.
My gripe with RA is that I think he'll be all over the board with Mike and what he can do--on his own emotional whims...and I'm sick of my kids dealing with grown up babies...so I'd rather DS cut his losses and found healthier territory...but Mike is amazing and sweet and doesn't deserve it...
Sorry still rambling. Thanks for your thoughts this morning.
I harbor mom-guilt over how close these two boys are. It's a result of us living together...they even asked to share a room.
This is part of why it was so hard to do the right thing for me here...because of what it would do to the kids...but I can't play martyr and fake a decade or more with an addict after finally ending my marriage to DS's father a few years ago--if it doesn't get better it gets worse. And I've seen much worse.
I apologized to DS yesterday for bringing this into our lives. He knows it's the right thing and said he wished he had known this could happen and hadn't gotten so close to Mike.
I think this is healthy guilt because I DID allow this situation to develop. So I need to learn the hard lesson and accept my mistake in this. DS tried to blame RA for ruining our lives...lol...I reminded him I'm an adult, my life is quite good, and I made the decision to let RA in, which was a mistake. I own that, not RA.
Hopefully he'll learn from it.
My gripe with RA is that I think he'll be all over the board with Mike and what he can do--on his own emotional whims...and I'm sick of my kids dealing with grown up babies...so I'd rather DS cut his losses and found healthier territory...but Mike is amazing and sweet and doesn't deserve it...
Sorry still rambling. Thanks for your thoughts this morning.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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That is a TOUGH situation & I do agree that your Ex has the right to parent his son however he sees fit.... but I would go out of my way for the boys whenever they could get a meet-up organized.
And when we arrived, I'd make sure to reach out to Mike in front of my ex so that he could hear my exact words as I tell Mike that I want him to know that he is in NO way responsible for anything happening between us & that I was sorry if all of the changes were difficult for him. I'd remind him that he & DS can still have their friendship & that I hoped he'd be comfortable visiting DS at the house one day, that the door would always be open to him as DS's friend even while the Ex & I weren't seeing eye-to-eye.
Yes, it's his kid... but they lived with you & you were acting as the kid's stepparent even if you never married. I think a kind word of support is completely appropriate so you can be sure he knows where you stand without hearing it filtered through your Ex. He's a teen, capable of this kind of convo; not a toddler that would get further confused by it. But like I said, I'd make sure to say all this with Ex present, not call Mike on his cell for a one-on-one call that is likely to be misconstrued by your Ex. JMHO, of course!
WELL DONE! 
And when we arrived, I'd make sure to reach out to Mike in front of my ex so that he could hear my exact words as I tell Mike that I want him to know that he is in NO way responsible for anything happening between us & that I was sorry if all of the changes were difficult for him. I'd remind him that he & DS can still have their friendship & that I hoped he'd be comfortable visiting DS at the house one day, that the door would always be open to him as DS's friend even while the Ex & I weren't seeing eye-to-eye.
Yes, it's his kid... but they lived with you & you were acting as the kid's stepparent even if you never married. I think a kind word of support is completely appropriate so you can be sure he knows where you stand without hearing it filtered through your Ex. He's a teen, capable of this kind of convo; not a toddler that would get further confused by it. But like I said, I'd make sure to say all this with Ex present, not call Mike on his cell for a one-on-one call that is likely to be misconstrued by your Ex. JMHO, of course!
I think this is healthy guilt because I DID allow this situation to develop. So I need to learn the hard lesson and accept my mistake in this. DS tried to blame RA for ruining our lives...lol...I reminded him I'm an adult, my life is quite good, and I made the decision to let RA in, which was a mistake. I own that, not RA.
WELL DONE! Member
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FS, that was good advice...thank you.
His boys have called me "mom" all year...and now I haven't seen them in a month, which feels abrupt...I have no idea what they think. I'm taking care of MY two boys.
With the space I've had I've realized that there is no way I can have a romantic relationship with him. I don't want it. I don't want to be next to him as he deals with all of these struggles. I don't want to mother his kids with him as my partner. I don't want to live with him again. I'm 100% certain I don't want it and can't do it given who I am today. I'm not worried I'll change my mind. It's very clear.
Found myself wondering today if he and I could be friends. It would help the kids' relationship. I don't hate him, he's a nice guy. I could manage how involved I want to be...
Is that totally crazy? Would it potentially be unhealthy?
I have no idea if he'd even be open to it. Or why it popped into my head today. I think I have more to think about on this one...I have a good group of friends and don't "need" it...
His boys have called me "mom" all year...and now I haven't seen them in a month, which feels abrupt...I have no idea what they think. I'm taking care of MY two boys.
With the space I've had I've realized that there is no way I can have a romantic relationship with him. I don't want it. I don't want to be next to him as he deals with all of these struggles. I don't want to mother his kids with him as my partner. I don't want to live with him again. I'm 100% certain I don't want it and can't do it given who I am today. I'm not worried I'll change my mind. It's very clear.
Found myself wondering today if he and I could be friends. It would help the kids' relationship. I don't hate him, he's a nice guy. I could manage how involved I want to be...
Is that totally crazy? Would it potentially be unhealthy?
I have no idea if he'd even be open to it. Or why it popped into my head today. I think I have more to think about on this one...I have a good group of friends and don't "need" it...
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Being "friends" with him might be a stretch. Seems to me there's too much chance of your getting sucked back in. Being on friendly terms is a different thing--THAT might be possible, especially if your kids are friends.
Do you consider yourself "friends" with the parents of all your son's other friends? I always considered such people acquaintances that I knew well enough to feel OK with my kids spending time at their home, but I wasn't into their personal lives.
Maintaining a cordial, but arms' length, relationship is probably a lot more feasible.
Do you consider yourself "friends" with the parents of all your son's other friends? I always considered such people acquaintances that I knew well enough to feel OK with my kids spending time at their home, but I wasn't into their personal lives.
Maintaining a cordial, but arms' length, relationship is probably a lot more feasible.
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Lexie, you're right.
Opened the mail today to a one year anniversary card from him saying he thinks of me every day...I guess that was sweet, but it just made me sad because I know he's not right for me as a partner. I think the "friend" thought was a mix of guilt over that loss as well as desire for the kids to be able to have some normal contact with each other.
My son's birthday is Sunday and he said he wanted to invite Mike to go out to lunch with us. I asked Mike's mom and dad to both consider it (he's at his mom's this weekend, and she and I had a lot of contact over the past year)...she suggested DS could come over to her house, but said no to lunch.
As a mother I can respect that--she is protecting her kids, and Lord knows the story my X gave her (though she WAS once married to him, haha). Yet I drove her kids all over town and took care of them on his time for almost a year...DS was disappointed, and said he didn't want to go there on his birthday.
Honestly, afterwards I was glad for his answer...thinking maybe the best thing is a slow decline in that friendship. They don't go to school together or run into each other otherwise. It just shouldn't have to be that way.
Finding myself sad tonight. But I can't make something with Dad work just to make these boys happy...and I'm not going to get sucked in to it...
And life without him is truly good. As some others have said, you almost get sad missing something that wasn't...and need a kick in the pants.
I built a nice warm fire and am hanging out with my kiddos.
Opened the mail today to a one year anniversary card from him saying he thinks of me every day...I guess that was sweet, but it just made me sad because I know he's not right for me as a partner. I think the "friend" thought was a mix of guilt over that loss as well as desire for the kids to be able to have some normal contact with each other.
My son's birthday is Sunday and he said he wanted to invite Mike to go out to lunch with us. I asked Mike's mom and dad to both consider it (he's at his mom's this weekend, and she and I had a lot of contact over the past year)...she suggested DS could come over to her house, but said no to lunch.
As a mother I can respect that--she is protecting her kids, and Lord knows the story my X gave her (though she WAS once married to him, haha). Yet I drove her kids all over town and took care of them on his time for almost a year...DS was disappointed, and said he didn't want to go there on his birthday.
Honestly, afterwards I was glad for his answer...thinking maybe the best thing is a slow decline in that friendship. They don't go to school together or run into each other otherwise. It just shouldn't have to be that way.
Finding myself sad tonight. But I can't make something with Dad work just to make these boys happy...and I'm not going to get sucked in to it...
And life without him is truly good. As some others have said, you almost get sad missing something that wasn't...and need a kick in the pants.
I built a nice warm fire and am hanging out with my kiddos.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Manipulation seed planted...
And, "I guess that was sweet," is your warning that it might be working. They never stop. Never. Never. Never.
Originally Posted by Praying 
Lexie, you're right.
Opened the mail today to a one year anniversary card from him saying he thinks of me every day...I guess that was sweet, but it just made me sad because I know he's not right for me as a partner. I think the "friend" thought was a mix of guilt over that loss as well as desire for the kids to be able to have some normal contact with each other.
My son's birthday is Sunday and he said he wanted to invite Mike to go out to lunch with us. I asked Mike's mom and dad to both consider it (he's at his mom's this weekend, and she and I had a lot of contact over the past year)...she suggested DS could come over to her house, but said no to lunch.
As a mother I can respect that--she is protecting her kids, and Lord knows the story my X gave her (though she WAS once married to him, haha). Yet I drove her kids all over town and took care of them on his time for almost a year...DS was disappointed, and said he didn't want to go there on his birthday.
Honestly, afterwards I was glad for his answer...thinking maybe the best thing is a slow decline in that friendship. They don't go to school together or run into each other otherwise. It just shouldn't have to be that way.
Finding myself sad tonight. But I can't make something with Dad work just to make these boys happy...and I'm not going to get sucked in to it...
And life without him is truly good. As some others have said, you almost get sad missing something that wasn't...and need a kick in the pants.
I built a nice warm fire and am hanging out with my kiddos.
Opened the mail today to a one year anniversary card from him saying he thinks of me every day...I guess that was sweet, but it just made me sad because I know he's not right for me as a partner. I think the "friend" thought was a mix of guilt over that loss as well as desire for the kids to be able to have some normal contact with each other.
My son's birthday is Sunday and he said he wanted to invite Mike to go out to lunch with us. I asked Mike's mom and dad to both consider it (he's at his mom's this weekend, and she and I had a lot of contact over the past year)...she suggested DS could come over to her house, but said no to lunch.
As a mother I can respect that--she is protecting her kids, and Lord knows the story my X gave her (though she WAS once married to him, haha). Yet I drove her kids all over town and took care of them on his time for almost a year...DS was disappointed, and said he didn't want to go there on his birthday.
Honestly, afterwards I was glad for his answer...thinking maybe the best thing is a slow decline in that friendship. They don't go to school together or run into each other otherwise. It just shouldn't have to be that way.
Finding myself sad tonight. But I can't make something with Dad work just to make these boys happy...and I'm not going to get sucked in to it...
And life without him is truly good. As some others have said, you almost get sad missing something that wasn't...and need a kick in the pants.
I built a nice warm fire and am hanging out with my kiddos.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Talk about being right about getting sucked in...
Today is the anniversary of me and my ex moving in together (and my son's bday, ugh that it's the same)...
He sent that card yesterday and a bday card with money for my son...and sweeter text today. I haven't responded yet. And his money is tight. And he's working the steps and going to counseling and discovering mountains of behavior patterns and ways he can modify them...turning into X 2.0, new and improved...
AND he's hitting me at a point where I'm feeling excellent about my house, my work, my parenting in a way I didn't all year...yet a little sad and wistful and hopeful...and I find myself wondering if I'm "being too harsh" and should listen to him.
But the reason my work, home, and parenting are going so well is the absence of him and my ability to focus and get stuff done.
All year he did just enough to appease me when things got tough, then fell back into his old ways. That's why I said at least a year before I'd consider anything. More like four years before he'd ever move back in. I'm not letting ANY guy move in here again until my kids are grown. (Maybe never, I kind of like having my own order and doing what I want without worrying about someone else.)
These darn kids being friends!!! Without them it would be so easy.
He promised to pick up all his things in January. As of now he has pushed it to the 22nd...
Here's what's funny. I've done this before. And I've seen the patterns in so many others here on SR. And I'm tempted to believe because it's currently believable. But they're still only words at this point...WORDS AREN'T ACTION and TRUE ACTION TAKES TIME.
Just a little reminder to myself.
Thanks for listening.
Today is the anniversary of me and my ex moving in together (and my son's bday, ugh that it's the same)...
He sent that card yesterday and a bday card with money for my son...and sweeter text today. I haven't responded yet. And his money is tight. And he's working the steps and going to counseling and discovering mountains of behavior patterns and ways he can modify them...turning into X 2.0, new and improved...
AND he's hitting me at a point where I'm feeling excellent about my house, my work, my parenting in a way I didn't all year...yet a little sad and wistful and hopeful...and I find myself wondering if I'm "being too harsh" and should listen to him.
But the reason my work, home, and parenting are going so well is the absence of him and my ability to focus and get stuff done.
All year he did just enough to appease me when things got tough, then fell back into his old ways. That's why I said at least a year before I'd consider anything. More like four years before he'd ever move back in. I'm not letting ANY guy move in here again until my kids are grown. (Maybe never, I kind of like having my own order and doing what I want without worrying about someone else.)
These darn kids being friends!!! Without them it would be so easy.
He promised to pick up all his things in January. As of now he has pushed it to the 22nd...
Here's what's funny. I've done this before. And I've seen the patterns in so many others here on SR. And I'm tempted to believe because it's currently believable. But they're still only words at this point...WORDS AREN'T ACTION and TRUE ACTION TAKES TIME.
Just a little reminder to myself.
Thanks for listening.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Thanks hopeful. I have some friends unfamiliar with addiction who don't understand why his current actions aren't enough. Gets confusing and I start to feel guilty and selfish...helps to talk to people who DO know...
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