honeypig

I understand that, armartin. I started a thread about it a while ago here: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...different.html

We have no idea whatsoever how we are being manipulated and how our idea of reality is being distorted until we are out of it for a while.

Several weeks ago, XAH said to me "I did all those things I did b/c I knew they'd work." A bit more recently, when we were kind of having a moment, I'd told him "I wish I had done better w/you, but I want you to know I did the best I knew how at the time. I never purposely hurt you or lied to you or manipulated you." His reply? "Well, I did those things to you. You knew exactly what I wanted you to know. You saw exactly what I wanted you to see."

armartin, it was like a different person inhabited his body when he said those things to me. He looked and acted like the person I was used to seeing, and then suddenly it was like the light went out and his eyes went flat and reptilian. It was frightening, to say the least, like holding your dear and beloved dog in your arms and having it morph into a hissing snake, ready to strike.

I've not talked about this to any extent b/c it still scares the hell out of me to think about it. In fact, I have to sign off your thread for a bit b/c this is very triggering for me and I'm not sure how I need to deal with this right now...

((((hugs)))), armartin, and keep on reading and posting--the folks here will get you thru!

armartin

the gun incident.... this was part of his last anger blow up. He screamed, yelled, etc and then went into the garage. he got a gun from the safe and said that he was going to go "target shooting" and "blow off some steam".... while raging mad.

biminiblue

Wait. You still live with him?

I would change that ASAP. Guns and kids and alcoholic rageaholic control freaks are a recipe for actual disaster.

LexieCat

Well, there you go. You KNOW what the right answer is.

If (and right now it's a mighty big "if") he REALLY throws his whole being into recovery (because that's what it takes) and IF there are DRAMATIC changes in a year's time (or more), THEN you can think about whether it's in YOUR best interest (and YOUR KIDS' best interest) to try to rebuild a relationship with him.

As noted above, he's not in a position to be calling the shots, here--you are.

Kids adjust to divorce--they do NOT adjust (at least not in a healthy way) to alcoholism and abuse in their home. If their dad recovers, they can have a lovely relationship with him. If not, they are far safer with you.

ladyscribbler

Well, the part about him moving out is a good idea.
Limited contact (only related to stuff about the kids that actually NEEDS to be to be discussed) done via text and email is the best way to sort out your own stuff and figure out where YOU stand on things.
Odds are good that everything out of his mouth is going to be manipulation and hoovering/guilt trips (sorry, I'll do better, I love you, you know that you had a part in this, don't try to pretend you're perfect) trying to suck you back into the cycle. Alternated with the rages and intimidation tactics (be ready to hear that he's going to "take the kids" and things like that) when he doesn't get what he wants from you.
There's a script they all seem to have. It can really rattle you and make you second guess yourself if you don't realize that they're following the Abuser's Playbook to the letter.

atalose

And he still wants to do it HIS WAY! A pretty good indicator for someone’s future behavior is with their past behavior.

These aren’t the words of a man wanting or willing to do what it takes to put his family/marriage back together and be a humble father and husband.

jjj111

I remember well how I used to forget or push aside the worst parts of my AXBF's abuse. I eventually had to keep a list to remind myself.

It might be useful for you to look at your last thread. He didn't just say he was going target shooting after he picked up the gun. He also said that you all would be better off without him (suicide threat), and he threatened to kill your mother. Also, don't forget: one of the things that motivated you to make a change after this incident was that your daughter was terrified and reported the incident, and you were afraid afterward of the possibility that CPS would take your kids. That could still happen if you don't set firm boundaries here.

I don't say this to throw it in your face. I fear for your safety and your children's. I grew up with an alcoholic, rage-aholic father, and I suffer with the aftermath to this day. Those memories aren't so easy to get past.

dandylion

amartin.....you ask why you feel so "guilty".....you say that you don't even know your own thoughts, anymore......

I put forth at these are the effects of living in an abusive relationship for ten years. It does a major job o n your self-esteem, your identity, your self confidence, and your ability to have your own thoughts.....
I propose that y ou are in the Cycle of Abuse, right now....and, he is in the phase of sucking you back in....

Do a google search for "Cycle of Abuse" and read through it carefully and thoughtfully.....
Also, go to the stickies at the top of the page....choose the o ne called Classic Readings.....and read..."10 ways to know if your addict or alcoholic is full of crap". You will probably recognize you husband, there....

Children always love their parents! They love the ones in prison....they love the o nes who abuse them....they love when there is no love given back as well as when there is.....
This does not mean that children should, therefore, live in an alcoholic, chaotic home....or witness abuse.....THAT will scar them for life. They need one stable adult in their lives, and a safe, tranquil, nurturing environment....safe, stable and predictable.....

If you put a man before y our children...it will damage them and you will live to regret it and you will suffer far more pain at that time than you have ever experienced so far....
Just read the thousands of stories here...real life accounts of mothers who wish they had left years ago.....
Also, read in the section of "Adult Children of Alcoholics" to get the most raw and honest description as to what this kind of life does to children.....

You have been given very good advice from the other posters.....straight from others who HAVE been in your shoes.....I hope that y ou can open your heart and mind to take their advice for what it is,,,,,people who have your best interest at heart......

dandylion

atalose

Why are you down playing this incident? Isn't this the same incident that got CPS involved in the first place? Your daughter saw him/heard him threaten to kill your mother................

When you are standing on the railroad tracks and the train is coming, that’s not the time to feel sorry for the engineer driving the train or hoping he changes………..it’s time to get the heck off the tracks.

And the inability to move off of those tracks no longer has a thing to do with the person driving the train and everything to do with the person just standing there waiting to get hit.

Hawkeye13

You are minimizing what happened, as others have noted.

Liveitwell

What dandy said. Yes!!!! Children can't process and don't have a means to cope-we, the healthy parent, are supposed to teach them life's tools so they don't get caught in addiction, abuse, etc when they are older. BUT we must get healthy first to be able to help our kids. You are on the train track-and you're minimizing what he did-isn't it time to get off?!? All these guys follow the abusers handbook (as Lady said) which is why we ALL have the same stories and can predict what he will do next...bc we have lived it. And most of us have felt guilty, minimized, etc bc it's what WE do in the cycle of abuse.

These guys are arrogant, manipulative and deceitful-all for their own gain-and he will hurt you and your kids for his benefit-he's already shown that to you. He is NOT a good guy-good guys don't do what he's done! Friend-it took me a LONG time to realize that my ex was NOT a good guy-at all. Even though he toldr he was a good guy bc his mommy and sissy told him he was just the best thing since sliced bread (yes, this guy is in his 30's). Good guys don't act nice and then drunkenly rage and terrorize their own family. He was a bad person, an abuser, and angry mommas boy with a chip on his shoulder, and just a plain old bully to those he was supposed to be taking care of and supposed to put in front of everyone else.
He will continue doing what he's doing-and changing tactics, as Lady said, but you have the choice to just simply say NO. That's not a game like he's playing-that's a firm boundary.

Refiner

OMG... you might put that poor little precious 6 yr old girl of yours into the same terrorizing situation with that monster? The one you wouldn't do anything about UNTIL that SIX YR OLD was brave (and SCARED) enough to go to her school counsels to get her help (CPS)? And you are SERIOUSLY contemplating a "reconciliation" with this monster when he's not even in recovery? I just need to point these things out to you directly as "gently" obviously does NOT work. I'm jumping off this thread now. Sorry, but you must want help in order to get helped. I pray your little girl gets the help and protection she needs at this critical stage of her life.

Hawkeye13

He won't forget it was the 6 year old who "outed" him as well.
You think people would be mature and play fair, but there's a good
chance she will end up catching hell from him next time he's feeling drunk and abusive.

I know this from my own experience as a child trying to stand up for myself to the drunk.
I will never forget or totally recover from that experience.

Liveitwell

Refiner and hawkeye took the words out of my mouth. Your six year old is hurting and needs soneone to a step up and be a parent-being a good parent means you have to make the hard tough decisions for HER best interest. Period. Please do that!!

armartin

I am minimizing what he did... and I needed a good dose of reality to remember that. I should just watch the video I took in my pocket of part of that day. Maybe that is a good reminder to me every day of what I DON'T want in my life....

armartin

So my next question is.... do the kids and I move out, or does he? I can probably afford our house payment for awhile on my own---but not forever....

Liveitwell

Hawkeye-been there done that as well. I think that's what keeps abusr victims silent for so long-they fear what the abuser will do when they are exposed. I know that's a huge part of why it didn't reveal the truth for years and years and why I pray fiercely my daughter uses her voice and gains confidence bc I'm sure she will be targeted in the future by my ex bc she too broke the abuser family code of dishonor and told the truth about my ex and others associated with him. He has already taken it out on her and it's been disgusting to witness. I too was targeted by him bc I broke the code and told the truth. My ex has done nothing remotely close to deserving visitation time with his children. He's a disgrace to good dads. Yours is too. I sincerely pray God give you wisdom to see reality and take the blinders off...that's the only way you can fight for yourself and kids.

AnvilheadII

that has to be decided between you two and probably the courts. you really need to take the time to contact the DV hotline and get some solid professional advice on next steps. I'm surprised to hear he is still IN the home.....

what happened to this plan on November 30th?
I think I am going to take the apartment. AH and I are set to meet with a counselor on Thursday, where we will be discussing our separation.
He was investigated by CPS today, she is going to call me later today... interested to see what she says.
He said, well I will go to AA if thats what it takes. Kinda missing the point, if you want to go --then go... if you don't, then don't.
I just got an email from my personal counselor and I will be seeing her next Monday.
I am going to contact a place that has resources for abused women, the CPS investigator urged me to contact them to utilize their resources and they would assign me an advocate.

Liveitwell

He's the abusive drunk a$$hat-tell him he can go live with his mom. That's what I did and mine is still there almost a year and a half later. (I'm not kidding) :/ In all seriousness, do what's best for you and the kids-and what's safest, that is the most important.

biminiblue

.