Husband runs out to fix daughters car .
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
I will dandelion! I am more aware everyday of how much I failed to see.It is unbelievable what is being presented to me.
I am reading and learning and the manipulation is so much clearer than ever before.
I am going to al anon tomorrow and a fake ..New Year's Eve dinner and dance with friends we already bought tickets for Thursday.
I may go away for a couple days after as I have a few days off.
I am reading and learning and the manipulation is so much clearer than ever before.
I am going to al anon tomorrow and a fake ..New Year's Eve dinner and dance with friends we already bought tickets for Thursday.
I may go away for a couple days after as I have a few days off.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Blue, maybe take a pencil and paper on your days off, be completely alone, and start writing. I can see from your posts that you're swinging from one extreme to another, strong, second guessing yourself, practical, overwhelmed. Of course this is completely natural as you have some life-changing decisions ahead of you.
Being alone, walking, writing, organising your thoughts with no outside stimulus will give you the chance to see more clearly. You know you're not satisfied with your life as it is, but there may be ways to improve it and still live with yourself. You know your AH won't be any help as he keeps retreating into addiction and religion as soon as he's challenged, but really the answer lies with you because it's you who is dissatisfied with your life. He has his own reality.
Write out what's making you unhappy, then challenge your current beliefs (AH should back you up). Start thinking simple steps like consulting a lawyer on where you stand and your rights if you do separate. You can't make decisions without correct information and it will help with your fears as well.
Come back refreshed, thinking clearly and with a sense of purpose. BTW, has your AD paid rent yet? Actually handed over the cash?
Being alone, walking, writing, organising your thoughts with no outside stimulus will give you the chance to see more clearly. You know you're not satisfied with your life as it is, but there may be ways to improve it and still live with yourself. You know your AH won't be any help as he keeps retreating into addiction and religion as soon as he's challenged, but really the answer lies with you because it's you who is dissatisfied with your life. He has his own reality.
Write out what's making you unhappy, then challenge your current beliefs (AH should back you up). Start thinking simple steps like consulting a lawyer on where you stand and your rights if you do separate. You can't make decisions without correct information and it will help with your fears as well.
Come back refreshed, thinking clearly and with a sense of purpose. BTW, has your AD paid rent yet? Actually handed over the cash?
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Thank you again for your words of wisdom every one it is appreciated and as you can see I'm overwhelmed.
What do you mean FG by my ah backing me up?
I am aware that I can live ok with rah as long as our daughter is not in the picture.I don't have a clue how we both got manipulate d so quickly letting her come back home but I'm a firm believer it has its purpose....
Although it is not a perfect marriage and its lonely emotionally he is around physical ly as we love to watch sports together, movies ,dance , travel, dinners out,foot rubs, golf ,church and friends etc. we have a ton in common.If I'm on the couch he's right next to me.
We have no sex life as of 2 years ago our last serious problem with our ad in which I again almost threw him out with her.I got her out instead.
We have our wounds still from that.
I own this is one of my dysfunctional parts as when it gets so bad I just want to leave. I'm at my breaking point. I can only take so much. This has happened when she was 15, 22 and now at 24 .
We have an ok relationship as far as we don't fight except when it's about ad.
My biggest beef I'm not protected ,not supported ,leaving me to figure everything out myself...he shuts down emotionally completely, lies, manipulates, void of feelings or expression of feelings.
What do you mean FG by my ah backing me up?
I am aware that I can live ok with rah as long as our daughter is not in the picture.I don't have a clue how we both got manipulate d so quickly letting her come back home but I'm a firm believer it has its purpose....
Although it is not a perfect marriage and its lonely emotionally he is around physical ly as we love to watch sports together, movies ,dance , travel, dinners out,foot rubs, golf ,church and friends etc. we have a ton in common.If I'm on the couch he's right next to me.
We have no sex life as of 2 years ago our last serious problem with our ad in which I again almost threw him out with her.I got her out instead.
We have our wounds still from that.
I own this is one of my dysfunctional parts as when it gets so bad I just want to leave. I'm at my breaking point. I can only take so much. This has happened when she was 15, 22 and now at 24 .
We have an ok relationship as far as we don't fight except when it's about ad.
My biggest beef I'm not protected ,not supported ,leaving me to figure everything out myself...he shuts down emotionally completely, lies, manipulates, void of feelings or expression of feelings.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Bluehawaii.....obviously, you have lots of soul searching in front of you, obviously......and, I hope you do take the time away for just yourself.....
Blue....do you want to just exist....or, to thrive?
Do you believe that you are entitled to happiness?
These are core questions to ask yourself when you can carve out some time and space for yourself....
I suspect that what you are attached to is the "familiar"
These are things that can be done with other people...friends ----watch sports and movies, dance, travel, dinners, golf, attend church. You can pay the ladies at the salon for very excellent foot rubs. A nice dog or kitty will always be there on the couch (for sure).
These are the things one can reasonably expect from a husband and l ife partner----sex and intimacy (both physical and emotional), support, to know that you are truly "seen" and heard. To know that your thoughts and opinions are valued and that you matter. The absence of lies and manipulations. the absence of emotional stonewalling.
People who are in an o.k. marriage don't go onto forums and write that they are emotionally lonely an d not protected or supported.
I also suspect that one of the elements of the dysfunctional dance is that your daughter provides a distraction from endurance of the hollowness of the marriage (not discounting the misery that her actions bring, of course). That may be one of the reasons why you got so "easily manipulated into letting her back in"......
I'm spitballing, here....
But, I have been in a similar place as you in a relationship before....and I thought I would share these thoughts with you as food for your own thoughts....
dandylion
Blue....do you want to just exist....or, to thrive?
Do you believe that you are entitled to happiness?
These are core questions to ask yourself when you can carve out some time and space for yourself....
I suspect that what you are attached to is the "familiar"
These are things that can be done with other people...friends ----watch sports and movies, dance, travel, dinners, golf, attend church. You can pay the ladies at the salon for very excellent foot rubs. A nice dog or kitty will always be there on the couch (for sure).
These are the things one can reasonably expect from a husband and l ife partner----sex and intimacy (both physical and emotional), support, to know that you are truly "seen" and heard. To know that your thoughts and opinions are valued and that you matter. The absence of lies and manipulations. the absence of emotional stonewalling.
People who are in an o.k. marriage don't go onto forums and write that they are emotionally lonely an d not protected or supported.
I also suspect that one of the elements of the dysfunctional dance is that your daughter provides a distraction from endurance of the hollowness of the marriage (not discounting the misery that her actions bring, of course). That may be one of the reasons why you got so "easily manipulated into letting her back in"......
I'm spitballing, here....
But, I have been in a similar place as you in a relationship before....and I thought I would share these thoughts with you as food for your own thoughts....
dandylion
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Originally Posted by Bluehawaii 
What do you mean FG by my ah backing me up?
OK, got your message that there's lots you value about your marriage and that the real crises occur when you AD is in the mix. It seems clear that if you both want to save your marriage she has to move out, or you have to unite to make clear what behaviour you'll accept.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
I've been standing strong been gettytongue lashed like crazy but maintained my position.
I just received a text from her
I think I want to go to rehab to deal with my anxiety medication.Your right I hate who I've become.
This is the farthest she has come to admit she has a problem!!!
I'm hopeful of course but left the application and phone number with her...it's her move not mine.
Intake is in April if she gets in this intake....I'm praying......
Ps thank you again I hear you loud and clear dandelion and FG.
Hugs!!
I just received a text from her
I think I want to go to rehab to deal with my anxiety medication.Your right I hate who I've become.
This is the farthest she has come to admit she has a problem!!!
I'm hopeful of course but left the application and phone number with her...it's her move not mine.
Intake is in April if she gets in this intake....I'm praying......
Ps thank you again I hear you loud and clear dandelion and FG.
Hugs!!
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,417
So I don't mean to be cynical, but do you think she plans
on staying in the house until April, and that this could simply
be a tactic to push her move-out date several months down
the road when hopefully you'll have backed off on making
her move at all?
The test for this would be to still insist she move into an apartment
while she waits for admission.
It really doesn't seem you can handle four more months of
both of them together anyway. . .
It's great she filled out the application, but that's still the very very
beginning of a long and stressful road for all of you.
on staying in the house until April, and that this could simply
be a tactic to push her move-out date several months down
the road when hopefully you'll have backed off on making
her move at all?
The test for this would be to still insist she move into an apartment
while she waits for admission.
It really doesn't seem you can handle four more months of
both of them together anyway. . .
It's great she filled out the application, but that's still the very very
beginning of a long and stressful road for all of you.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yeah, I smell stalling and manipulation, here.
Addicts are very good at telling us what we want to hear--when it serves their purpose. Often it cycles from mean and abusive, to tearful and sorry, to "this time I'm really going to change," back to mean and abusive.
Addicts are very good at telling us what we want to hear--when it serves their purpose. Often it cycles from mean and abusive, to tearful and sorry, to "this time I'm really going to change," back to mean and abusive.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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I'm going to trust my instincts on this one and I know I'm extremely alert to this possibility...she is one whom when she finally comes forth which takes a lot For her to come to this point and admit there is a problem...I have to trust till she proves me wrong that she wants this.
They have to call in every Monday once they are accepted and meet with the program director to keep a bed on the waiting list. If they don't call in they go back and lose there spot.
I will know soon enough if she is snowing me.
I'm going to keep the faith and still insist on respect and rent due next week.
We will see how that goes.
I pray she's not playing games but realize this could be a possibility.
They have to call in every Monday once they are accepted and meet with the program director to keep a bed on the waiting list. If they don't call in they go back and lose there spot.
I will know soon enough if she is snowing me.
I'm going to keep the faith and still insist on respect and rent due next week.
We will see how that goes.
I pray she's not playing games but realize this could be a possibility.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Originally Posted by Bluehawaii
I'm going to keep the faith and still insist on respect and rent due next week.
We will see how that goes.
We will see how that goes.
If she reverts to abuse, disrespect and refusing to do her share are you strong enough to ask her to leave? Just for you to think about and prepare a plan.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Yes I am I'm not backing down now. I want a healthy whole daughter but she has to want that more than me.
Only she can do this not me.
And to want any less from her is not a path I can take.
I have to stay strong for her.
Only she can do this not me.
And to want any less from her is not a path I can take.
I have to stay strong for her.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,417
I would suggest you all sit down and put the "plan" in writing so everyone is clear
about expectations--you all agree to abide by it without further discussion.
For example, if she pays rent on time, great, but what if she's "disrespectful"?
Does she have to leave at the end of the month? 48 hours? End of the week?
Will you refund the rent she paid towards an apartment?
What if you catch her using?
These things need to be clarified for all of you, but especially her.
She has gotten away with her actions so long, she may think raising
her voice, or cursing at or near you when you tell her she's left a mess,
not as disrespectful.
A list of expected "chores" about cleaning, cooking, etc. should also
be discussed and agreed on so there is no ambiguity.
I have my doubts she will be able to live peacefully and politely with you
given her past actions, quite frankly, but I understand you want
to give her every chance.
Be clear and firm and have a back-up plan ready that she knows
you will implement immediately.
By "you" I mean both you and your husband, on the same page, standing together.
He's going to have to fully support you also.
Get clear with him on this first, before you talk to her and
perhaps decide between the two of you what you expect
before you talk to her.
After all, it is your home.
Best of luck BH
about expectations--you all agree to abide by it without further discussion.
For example, if she pays rent on time, great, but what if she's "disrespectful"?
Does she have to leave at the end of the month? 48 hours? End of the week?
Will you refund the rent she paid towards an apartment?
What if you catch her using?
These things need to be clarified for all of you, but especially her.
She has gotten away with her actions so long, she may think raising
her voice, or cursing at or near you when you tell her she's left a mess,
not as disrespectful.
A list of expected "chores" about cleaning, cooking, etc. should also
be discussed and agreed on so there is no ambiguity.
I have my doubts she will be able to live peacefully and politely with you
given her past actions, quite frankly, but I understand you want
to give her every chance.
Be clear and firm and have a back-up plan ready that she knows
you will implement immediately.
By "you" I mean both you and your husband, on the same page, standing together.
He's going to have to fully support you also.
Get clear with him on this first, before you talk to her and
perhaps decide between the two of you what you expect
before you talk to her.
After all, it is your home.
Best of luck BH
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Bluehawaii.....I believe that you have got the tail wagging the dog, here.....It is not your place to be p r oven wrong---it is HER place to demonstrate her desire to become clean and sober!! The onus is and should be on HER....not YOU.
Not your burden to carry....until she does this or that....
The addict will not carry their problem...until they HAVE to....
Oh, Bluehawaii....I went down that road for so many times....I cannot tell you the number of times that I made these kinds of "agreements".....and how many times I got the same consequences... My tears, sleepless nights, and the final bad confrontation, again....when the inevitable happened....
I am the one that suffered....my son just got drunk......
You know....AA and NA is there 24/7. All the members will support and embrace her...sponsors will be there for anything that she needs....They can do what the loved ones can never do. If she is serious--she knows this....and, she could be well into this treatment....even now. If she goes into a rehab program...they will usually demand these things, anyway. Since she has other issues...as you have indicated...she can get psychological eval and treatment from county services....for little or cheap.....
she doesn't have to be spoon-fed....she can do all of this on her own steam....if she is serious....
People who are serious will do anything to get better....they will seek and use any help that they can get their hands on....
Now...Bluehawaii....I know, very well that you are going to do whatever you want---the way you want to do it...which, of course, is your right....lol....
My fear is for YOU. that you will proceed with this new plan and avoid doing the work on yourself...that you are going to need....Alanon and therapy and support group, etc. the things you will have to do to make the I nternal changes within your self....
You can't really do anything for her.....she will get sober, or not, but it doesn't happen while the adult child is still in the p arental home....the little birds don't fly on their own until they have to.....
I agree with Hawkeye...that you need to get on the same page with your husband before you approach her. (remember p arenting 101?---if both parents are not united...they will split you every time. they will have the parents fighting....and, the focus is taken off of them as they do whatever they wanted to do in the first place.....
Now...Bluehawaii...I am well aware that I am coming across like the withch on the broom...
As I said, before, this is a tough situation...that requires tough and drastic changes (drastic). I know I am telling you the hard truths in a Come-to-Jesus kind of way.
I have been through the battles...and I have the scars to show for it...
I am trying to help....not trying to just beat you over the head....I promise....
It would help you if you were to start working on a detailed pl an of how YOU will proceed if she were to blow this whole thing up in your face....always have a plan!!
dandylion
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Posts: 220
Hi thank you and happy new year!! I've spent the last three days in bed with the worst stomach flu in my life!
Able to write a bit now ...I don't take your thoughts as harsh dandelion!
Reality is best!
She stayed in on New Year's Eve ! Yay but back at her bs today.
"I am just depressed cause I want to Finnish school...if I quit work and go to school full time I won't be depressed.
I'm waiting to hear from counsellor if this is possible meeting is jan 22...."
In which I respond " what about ,I'm tired of living this way and I want to go to rehab"
I never *%#£!!! Said I wasn't going but your not %%#%^*! Going to make me you controlling %#%?!?%,,
I'll go because I want to not because you make me.
no kidding!!! No one could make her do anything!
Ever!! Not teachers,,,not parents...not police...chrisis...counsellors...no one....
Only herself! I'm looking at an apartment on Monday . Seems silly if she does go in April ...as she now cooled off and says I never said I wasn't going.
Able to write a bit now ...I don't take your thoughts as harsh dandelion!
Reality is best!
She stayed in on New Year's Eve ! Yay but back at her bs today.
"I am just depressed cause I want to Finnish school...if I quit work and go to school full time I won't be depressed.
I'm waiting to hear from counsellor if this is possible meeting is jan 22...."
In which I respond " what about ,I'm tired of living this way and I want to go to rehab"
I never *%#£!!! Said I wasn't going but your not %%#%^*! Going to make me you controlling %#%?!?%,,
I'll go because I want to not because you make me.
no kidding!!! No one could make her do anything!
Ever!! Not teachers,,,not parents...not police...chrisis...counsellors...no one....
Only herself! I'm looking at an apartment on Monday . Seems silly if she does go in April ...as she now cooled off and says I never said I wasn't going.
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Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
She is SUCH a spoiled, manipulative little BRAT!! Is the apt you're looking at for you? If it's for the spoiled brat, what are YOU doing looking at apts for HER? She's a 24 year old ADULT. And when she put it out there about wanting rehab, it sounded like YOU were the one to scramble getting the info for her. Kick her @$$ out already and let the spoiled brat ADULT figure life out! You deserve your own life, not one ruled by the spoiled brat ADULT. If hubby can't handle that, then he needs to go with her... ENOUGH!
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Bluehawaii.....I think that is a good idea (as you well know, by now...lol!).......
It would remove you as her convenient whipping post......and, give you the time and space that you so badly need to get back to yourself......
YOU are just as important as anyone else in this family.....
Helpful hint: When she is "quacking"...which is what we call it when the alcoholic is making ridiculous statements or trying to provoke you in some way......Do a detachment technique to exit the "conversation".
---picture her as a small quacking duck, in your mind.....
---or, picture her with a neon A sign on her forehead...signifying that she is merely acting out her alcoholism and throw you off balance.....
----then.....leave the room or the area....orm just murmur something very neutral and noncommittal...like "Uh-huh"....or, "o.k., whatever".....(you get the idea).
Just don't engage or let yourself rise to her challenges! Be preoccupied, bored, disinterested, detached, toobusy....etc.....
This will not changer her...or maybe will **** her off....but, it keeps you out of the heat of the battles.....
The angry and vile outbursts are always followed by a layer of honey.....the honey is intended to bring you back under her control and re-establish the status quo.....
I STRONGLY suspect that her ADD is at play to a great extent, here....which further muddies the pool. (high anxiety levels--poor impulse control--, etc.)
However, you can't do anything about that any more than you can control her addiction and the associated behaviors.
While alcohol is often used to medicate ADD...it just compounds everything and makes it worse.....
Dual diagnosis.....
I highly suggest the book---"Is it You, or Me, or the ADD".....you will probably see yourself and her on just about every page! You can get it, cheaply, on Amazon.....
dandylion
It would remove you as her convenient whipping post......and, give you the time and space that you so badly need to get back to yourself......
YOU are just as important as anyone else in this family.....
Helpful hint: When she is "quacking"...which is what we call it when the alcoholic is making ridiculous statements or trying to provoke you in some way......Do a detachment technique to exit the "conversation".
---picture her as a small quacking duck, in your mind.....
---or, picture her with a neon A sign on her forehead...signifying that she is merely acting out her alcoholism and throw you off balance.....
----then.....leave the room or the area....orm just murmur something very neutral and noncommittal...like "Uh-huh"....or, "o.k., whatever".....(you get the idea).
Just don't engage or let yourself rise to her challenges! Be preoccupied, bored, disinterested, detached, toobusy....etc.....
This will not changer her...or maybe will **** her off....but, it keeps you out of the heat of the battles.....
The angry and vile outbursts are always followed by a layer of honey.....the honey is intended to bring you back under her control and re-establish the status quo.....
I STRONGLY suspect that her ADD is at play to a great extent, here....which further muddies the pool. (high anxiety levels--poor impulse control--, etc.)
However, you can't do anything about that any more than you can control her addiction and the associated behaviors.
While alcohol is often used to medicate ADD...it just compounds everything and makes it worse.....
Dual diagnosis.....
I highly suggest the book---"Is it You, or Me, or the ADD".....you will probably see yourself and her on just about every page! You can get it, cheaply, on Amazon.....
dandylion
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