Feeling confused - please help me understand?!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 74
Why are you guys focusing on him and what he's going to do or not do, or what he's thinking?
I know in my life I have some regrets. One thing I don't regret is when I choose not to say that hurtful thing that I am thinking. Sure, we all get angry. But if I'm wanting a relationship to work, there is no sense in saying, "You were awful, I wished you had hurt yourself." That just doesn't leave room for anything good to flourish. The things I do regret? Saying mean things, doing mean things, acting like a two-year old, blaming, shaming, or otherwise trying to hurt someone else. What he does is not hers to worry about, truly. He was hurt. What he does with that is no one's fault, but the hurt was unnecessary, and those things are the things that haunt me today; hurting someone on purpose, or even in frustration. I still know better. Sorry ladies, just my experience.
I know in my life I have some regrets. One thing I don't regret is when I choose not to say that hurtful thing that I am thinking. Sure, we all get angry. But if I'm wanting a relationship to work, there is no sense in saying, "You were awful, I wished you had hurt yourself." That just doesn't leave room for anything good to flourish. The things I do regret? Saying mean things, doing mean things, acting like a two-year old, blaming, shaming, or otherwise trying to hurt someone else. What he does is not hers to worry about, truly. He was hurt. What he does with that is no one's fault, but the hurt was unnecessary, and those things are the things that haunt me today; hurting someone on purpose, or even in frustration. I still know better. Sorry ladies, just my experience.
I am confused and I want to figure it out. If I reach the conclusion that he was looking for an excuse to drink then at least I can stop blaming myself for saying too much. If I reach the conclusion that I should take responsibility for my words which were hurtful and unnecessary, then I can decide to apologise when (if) he comes back. Focusing on why he's done what he's done is helping me to understand, learn and make a plan of action.
I do regret saying what I said. However it wasn't said in anger. We were lying in bed, in each other's arms, speaking from the heart.
I'll admit this thread was somewhat of a trigger for me. I was in an abusive relationship. To me this just came across as "give me praise" because I am trying, and just "stuff your own feelings", and just "get over it".
Nyinabo, I may not have said those things to my ex, but I think you know I was thinking them. The only way that I could sit there and listen to his rages, (and yes, I had to, he blocked my exits, and followed me around) was to just sit there peacefully, shutting him out, while thinking the whole time that I was stabbing him, but he always got up. I only allowed him to get up in my fantasy, because, he never stopped, and I had to do that again, and again, and again, just so that I wouldn't engage with him.
I do think when a marriage gets this bad, that careful consideration should be thought of to leave, it became that toxic.
Nyinabo, I don't know how bad your marriage got, I know how bad my marriage got.
A simple amends would not have done it for me, I would have needed to know that he knew how much his cruelty hurt me, and I would have needed for that to stop. If I had heard that I should "just get over it" again, that would have triggered me.
Sometimes, I think when feelings are this "raw" that a separation might be the best if you want to continue the marriage. Time for both to heal.
I do believe that healing yourself and doing your own recovery is the best, and I sometimes don't feel that you can do that together.
No, at 3 months, he may not be in charge of his emotions. Just remember how long he drank to deaden his emotions. Yes, your emotions are valid. I'm sure many here have felt the same way. I know that I did.
Just know that you can talk to us here, and you can vent here whenever you need to.
Here for you
((((hugs))))
amy
Nyinabo, I may not have said those things to my ex, but I think you know I was thinking them. The only way that I could sit there and listen to his rages, (and yes, I had to, he blocked my exits, and followed me around) was to just sit there peacefully, shutting him out, while thinking the whole time that I was stabbing him, but he always got up. I only allowed him to get up in my fantasy, because, he never stopped, and I had to do that again, and again, and again, just so that I wouldn't engage with him.
I do think when a marriage gets this bad, that careful consideration should be thought of to leave, it became that toxic.
Nyinabo, I don't know how bad your marriage got, I know how bad my marriage got.
A simple amends would not have done it for me, I would have needed to know that he knew how much his cruelty hurt me, and I would have needed for that to stop. If I had heard that I should "just get over it" again, that would have triggered me.
Sometimes, I think when feelings are this "raw" that a separation might be the best if you want to continue the marriage. Time for both to heal.
I do believe that healing yourself and doing your own recovery is the best, and I sometimes don't feel that you can do that together.
No, at 3 months, he may not be in charge of his emotions. Just remember how long he drank to deaden his emotions. Yes, your emotions are valid. I'm sure many here have felt the same way. I know that I did.
Just know that you can talk to us here, and you can vent here whenever you need to.
Here for you
((((hugs))))
amy
But the relationship is a dance. Just because the music is playing - doesn't mean you have to get out of your chair.
What triggers him is on him.
What you do is on you.
You aren't in control of his actions, and he will do what he will do no matter what you said to him. That is the point I'm making. Why compromise your own integrity and kindness and then beat yourself up afterward? Because you know that words hurt. You did it on purpose. That's what you can own, not that it in some way "caused" him to do thus and so.
The dance.
He put the record on, and you jumped out of your seat to dance with him. So the dance continues. You hurt me, I hurt you. You hurt me, I hurt you. Tit/tat.
Someone (one of you) needs to put on some headphones and not dance. It takes two, and he's still tango-ing away.
What triggers him is on him.
What you do is on you.
You aren't in control of his actions, and he will do what he will do no matter what you said to him. That is the point I'm making. Why compromise your own integrity and kindness and then beat yourself up afterward? Because you know that words hurt. You did it on purpose. That's what you can own, not that it in some way "caused" him to do thus and so.
The dance.
He put the record on, and you jumped out of your seat to dance with him. So the dance continues. You hurt me, I hurt you. You hurt me, I hurt you. Tit/tat.
Someone (one of you) needs to put on some headphones and not dance. It takes two, and he's still tango-ing away.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Maybe it is time to acknowledge that you both need to recover. He from his alcoholism and all the damage that accompanied it, and you for your efforts to stay with him and all the hurt that you swallowed because of your decisions that led to underlying rage in you.
Maybe the way forward is to both acknowledge, now, that a long segment of your mutual marriage damaged you both, and you both need to heal.
I can understand that he wouldn't want to be with you in the future if you carry lingering anger so deep that it made you hope he fell and hurt himself. You felt terribly helpless and unable to get any changes made in your relationship, and, as a result, so desperate for intervention that you would have taken it any way at all. If he thinks you still feel this way, he may not think there is as much potential in your marriage as he needs to move forward with you.
If it were me, I would feel that the ball is in my court to reassure him that while, yes, the devastation of that time period was far beyond what he knew, that your commitment to him and your love for him is greater than the past, and greater than he knows, and you want to recover your marriage with him, even as you pursue your own path of recovery.
I think that your hurt and pain is very deep, and it is not enough to say that working in the evening prevents you from going to Alanon, or that money prevents you from going to therapy. This is the time for you to choose your recovery, whatever that costs. For me, the longer I was away from my marriage, the more I realized my own part in the dysfunction, and the more I own my own need to change, make amends, and grow.
ShootingStar1
Maybe the way forward is to both acknowledge, now, that a long segment of your mutual marriage damaged you both, and you both need to heal.
I can understand that he wouldn't want to be with you in the future if you carry lingering anger so deep that it made you hope he fell and hurt himself. You felt terribly helpless and unable to get any changes made in your relationship, and, as a result, so desperate for intervention that you would have taken it any way at all. If he thinks you still feel this way, he may not think there is as much potential in your marriage as he needs to move forward with you.
If it were me, I would feel that the ball is in my court to reassure him that while, yes, the devastation of that time period was far beyond what he knew, that your commitment to him and your love for him is greater than the past, and greater than he knows, and you want to recover your marriage with him, even as you pursue your own path of recovery.
I think that your hurt and pain is very deep, and it is not enough to say that working in the evening prevents you from going to Alanon, or that money prevents you from going to therapy. This is the time for you to choose your recovery, whatever that costs. For me, the longer I was away from my marriage, the more I realized my own part in the dysfunction, and the more I own my own need to change, make amends, and grow.
ShootingStar1
I think it's perfectly understandable that you felt those feelings, but think about it--how would YOU feel if he said, "Well, there were times when you were so cold to me I wished you were dead." Now, that might have been TRUE, but expressing a wish that someone comes to harm is a whole lot different from simply stating that you were angry and helpless (which is what it comes down to--the "wishing he'd fall" was really just part of that--a part that didn't need to be said).
But, as noted above, what was said was said. If he wants to use it as an excuse to drink, he can--an alcoholic can use ANYTHING as an excuse to drink. Or he might just need some space after being hurt.
Have you apologized for saying something that hurt him? You don't have to apologize for how you FELT--that is not within your control. But for the fact that you said something that hurt him.
I agree that Al-Anon would be very helpful in learning to keep your focus on your own actions.
But, as noted above, what was said was said. If he wants to use it as an excuse to drink, he can--an alcoholic can use ANYTHING as an excuse to drink. Or he might just need some space after being hurt.
Have you apologized for saying something that hurt him? You don't have to apologize for how you FELT--that is not within your control. But for the fact that you said something that hurt him.
I agree that Al-Anon would be very helpful in learning to keep your focus on your own actions.
I think the key difference here is that you wanted him to hurt himself to get a wake-up call, not just to be hurt. You wanted something to happen to open his eyes. I wanted a DUI for my ex really bad, I really really wanted him to suffer the consequences. And oh boy was he hurtful. In the end, there was only one thing to do . . . I let him go, that is, I set myself free. Right now, I wish to my ex all the best in life, I wish that he finds sobriety one day, I do not hope for a DUI, but it is really easy now to forgive and let go, because he is not hurting me anymore. My space is not violated, my boundaries are not violated.
I am not sure why your husband had such a reaction. Maybe he is looking for an excuse to drink, or he simply is hurt for real and needs some time to process it. I would apologize one more time, and forget about it. He asked, you told him. It is what it is.
I am not sure why your husband had such a reaction. Maybe he is looking for an excuse to drink, or he simply is hurt for real and needs some time to process it. I would apologize one more time, and forget about it. He asked, you told him. It is what it is.
There's nothing wrong with wanting him to hit rock bottom (in your experience that would be to hurt himself) in order to WANT to get better. I simply read this as him having an excuse to drink - his invite to the pub he had to turn down, the "in jail" comment, and if he's "leaving you" then why not, right? (In his mind) Enjoy your peaceful evening. He'll be back. Is he working any kind of a program?
Nyinabo.....He was looking for a reason to drink...almost certainly....and he picked the easiest.....most handy thing he could find......
So.....he found an easy thing that he can blame on you......so that he won't have to be responsible....
Don't take the bait! You spoke the truth....you were honest...
Stop feeling guilty...you did nothing wrong....(I would have said the same thing).
He has a h*** of a lot of recovery work to do......
dandylion
So.....he found an easy thing that he can blame on you......so that he won't have to be responsible....
Don't take the bait! You spoke the truth....you were honest...
Stop feeling guilty...you did nothing wrong....(I would have said the same thing).
He has a h*** of a lot of recovery work to do......
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 246
Have you apologized? This journey is difficult and it's understandable we stumble along the way and make mistakes with our words and actions. Please go easy on yourself. Chalk the experience up to a mistake and then move forward.
I guess what would be interesting is his response to your apology. Will he accept your apology, forgive and let it go OR accept it but use it against you (constantly remind you of what you said)? I only raise it since the latter is not out of the realm of possibilities in early recovery and his departure did come across as abrupt.
I hope you both can move passed this incident and continue to work on your respective recoveries and marriage. Hang in there.
I guess what would be interesting is his response to your apology. Will he accept your apology, forgive and let it go OR accept it but use it against you (constantly remind you of what you said)? I only raise it since the latter is not out of the realm of possibilities in early recovery and his departure did come across as abrupt.
I hope you both can move passed this incident and continue to work on your respective recoveries and marriage. Hang in there.
I really don't understand how ppl are saying Ny made a mistake and should apologize- she did nothing wrong IMO. He asked for her truth and accepted it AT THE TIME. Then threw it in her face THE NEXT DAY using it as the reason he's "leaving her" (I can almost guarantee he won't do this after he's done with his relapse or binge he's most certainly on). She wanted him to hit his rock bottom (as others have in the form of arrest, getting hurt, etc) so he would WANT to get help. If anyone needs to apologize it should HIM apologizing to Ny.
I really don't understand how ppl are saying Ny made a mistake and should apologize- she did nothing wrong IMO. He asked for her truth and accepted it AT THE TIME. Then threw it in her face THE NEXT DAY using it as the reason he's "leaving her" (I can almost guarantee he won't do this after he's done with his relapse or binge he's most certainly on). She wanted him to hit his rock bottom (as others have in the form of arrest, getting hurt, etc) so he would WANT to get help. If anyone needs to apologize it should HIM apologizing to Ny.
I think the perhaps the whole thing is a smoke screen for a relapse.
Time will tell. . .
I think we all come at this looking at different point of views.
I looked at this, seeing my ex saying to me, "just get over it already" !!!!
Can look at it like he was really trying, but he did hurt here. And it seemed like he was looking for a pat on the back for doing well, and didn't really want to know how he hurt her.
I do agree with everyone here as to look at his next action.
amy
PS, is he going to go drink now? Not Ny's fault.
Some of the things that we have to listen to that come out of their mouths would make this seem like nothing. We aren't allowed to be upset, but they are, we need to be thick skinned, and they drink for any reason?
I looked at this, seeing my ex saying to me, "just get over it already" !!!!
Can look at it like he was really trying, but he did hurt here. And it seemed like he was looking for a pat on the back for doing well, and didn't really want to know how he hurt her.
I do agree with everyone here as to look at his next action.
amy
PS, is he going to go drink now? Not Ny's fault.
Some of the things that we have to listen to that come out of their mouths would make this seem like nothing. We aren't allowed to be upset, but they are, we need to be thick skinned, and they drink for any reason?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 74
I really don't understand how ppl are saying Ny made a mistake and should apologize- she did nothing wrong IMO. He asked for her truth and accepted it AT THE TIME. Then threw it in her face THE NEXT DAY using it as the reason he's "leaving her" (I can almost guarantee he won't do this after he's done with his relapse or binge he's most certainly on). She wanted him to hit his rock bottom (as others have in the form of arrest, getting hurt, etc) so he would WANT to get help. If anyone needs to apologize it should HIM apologizing to Ny.
I did get an apology that night while we were talking (before I said I wanted him to hurt himself), how I wish I had just stopped at the apology and revelled in it!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 74
I think we all come at this looking at different point of views.
I looked at this, seeing my ex saying to me, "just get over it already" !!!!
Can look at it like he was really trying, but he did hurt here. And it seemed like he was looking for a pat on the back for doing well, and didn't really want to know how he hurt her.
I do agree with everyone here as to look at his next action.
amy
PS, is he going to go drink now? Not Ny's fault.
Some of the things that we have to listen to that come out of their mouths would make this seem like nothing. We aren't allowed to be upset, but they are, we need to be thick skinned, and they drink for any reason?
I looked at this, seeing my ex saying to me, "just get over it already" !!!!
Can look at it like he was really trying, but he did hurt here. And it seemed like he was looking for a pat on the back for doing well, and didn't really want to know how he hurt her.
I do agree with everyone here as to look at his next action.
amy
PS, is he going to go drink now? Not Ny's fault.
Some of the things that we have to listen to that come out of their mouths would make this seem like nothing. We aren't allowed to be upset, but they are, we need to be thick skinned, and they drink for any reason?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 74
Nyinabo.....He was looking for a reason to drink...almost certainly....and he picked the easiest.....most handy thing he could find......
So.....he found an easy thing that he can blame on you......so that he won't have to be responsible....
Don't take the bait! You spoke the truth....you were honest...
Stop feeling guilty...you did nothing wrong....(I would have said the same thing).
He has a h*** of a lot of recovery work to do......
dandylion
So.....he found an easy thing that he can blame on you......so that he won't have to be responsible....
Don't take the bait! You spoke the truth....you were honest...
Stop feeling guilty...you did nothing wrong....(I would have said the same thing).
He has a h*** of a lot of recovery work to do......
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 246
"If I reach the conclusion that I should take responsibility for my words which were hurtful and unnecessary, then I can decide to apologise when (if) he comes back."
Ny - I apologize. I might have misunderstood what you wrote in the quotes above and mistakenly thought you wanted to apologize.
I wish you only the best. I hope everything works out with you and your husband.
Last edited by HoldOnLoosely; 12-26-2015 at 06:20 PM. Reason: I saw and read your recent posts.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 74
"I could probably have got my point across without telling him that I used to wish he would hurt himself."
"If I reach the conclusion that I should take responsibility for my words which were hurtful and unnecessary, then I can decide to apologise when (if) he comes back."
For myself, I read Ny's comments above and thought she wanted to apologize.
I wish you only the best and apologize if I misunderstood what you wrote, Ny. I hope everything works out with you and your husband.
"If I reach the conclusion that I should take responsibility for my words which were hurtful and unnecessary, then I can decide to apologise when (if) he comes back."
For myself, I read Ny's comments above and thought she wanted to apologize.
I wish you only the best and apologize if I misunderstood what you wrote, Ny. I hope everything works out with you and your husband.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)