Dimndaruf

It takes maturity to admit how something you've done has negatively impacted others, you've gotta remember that they're emotionally immature so most A's are not capable of this. I can only speak from experience...with my AH its literally like dealing with a child (in terms of his emotions), trying to show them the domino effect. They're simply emotionally underdeveloped and selfish. It's so difficult for people like us to understand as we're so empathetic and compassionate.

Even during recover they may recognize some of the chaos they've created but the remorse still seems somewhat watered down and not genune. I think they may admit to feeling guilt but I feel they're more embarrassed than guilty.

firebolt

THERE it is - We just have higher bottoms than some of them. We get here when we're ready. Just sucks when one is ready and the other is not, huh?!

I'm reading and doing the worksheets in "Conquering Codependency and Shame." The author is brilliant and talks about how guilt is actually a good thing. It can be let go of easily, and motivates us to make changes. Shame on the other hand is so deep rooted, and leads to our (for lack of a better term) 'personality disorders'... that it takes tons and tons of work to even find - then make amends, then forgive ourselves - then let go. SO INTERESTING! With substance addiction, it just adds another layer of denial and inability to feel what's lingering underneath. As maddening as their 'symptoms' are to us - it's also so, so sad.

Liveitwell

Dim-so true! I recall when we were married I had to sit my husbabd down like a kid and tell him, "when you yelled at your daughter last night when you were drunk and told her she ruined every morning and everynight for you, you caused her to cry. Please go apologize to her". Seriously. That's a nice day compared to what he has done. Like another child-only my 6 year old is more emotionally mature than her own dad.

LifeRecovery

Just my two cents.

I think people with addictions use their DOC to avoid feeling the guilt and shame that come with their addiction.

When the feeling of shame gets to much, use happens. There is no other trigger needed.

I could not be in touch with these feelings until I got some seperation from my addiction.......they are pretty uncomfortable to sit with. Part of my distraction was to "fix" and "control" things around me so I did not have to sit with my own.

It is a big snowball that we all get caught up in.

Bunnymen1

I'm on day 58, and guilt and shame are part of my motivation. I feel genuine remorse for my actions, and being sober is a fundamental part of my present and future. I know you are supposed to do this for yourself, but I get to see my kids every day, even though I am separated. I was a binge drinker, and liked to think I was being sociable, but I was just drinking because I liked it, and stuff the consequences. My kids love me, they are 9, 13 and 14 btw, but they are all aware I have a problem. I can only speak personally, but I think guilt and remorse are inevitable emotions of an alcoholic. You can hide them temporarily by drinking, but they will come back and haunt you. If I get an urge, I think of the conseqences, and my family, and so far so good

Liveitwell

^^ Huge congrats on your sobriety!! Stick with it-life is sweet sober

Cyranoak

I would argue that most of them always feel shame and guilt, and that much of their behavior is driven by that.

Cyranoak

wehav2day

fog,

This alcoholic felt such guilt and shame over my addiction and inability to break out of it, I felt completely unloveable. Even the good things I did seemed fake to me in light of my addiction. I felt I was a horrible human being who deserved the misery of addiction. It actually took a fellow alcoholic to tell me I wasn't worthless, it took the aa promises to sink in and make me kind of sort of believe I could be a good person again, for me to see some hope.

Otherwise, I drank out of fear, guilt, and shame. It's all I had and I saw no way out.

So yeah, we can definitely feel guilt and shame. Some alkies may blame themselves less than I did, some may just have a wall against it. But many of us also have other mental health issues going on. Mine were PTSD and anxiety. Some may well be sociopaths, some may just be assholes.

jarp

I also believe they feel great shame and guilt - my RAH certainly did. His guilt and shame was so overwhelming he tried to blot it out by drinking more, numbing himself further. And to me that's what defines an alcoholic, that endless cycle of shame. Do something that makes you feel bad - do it more to stop feeling bad - feel even worse - do it even more!

Now in recovery he's doing a LOT of work on how to sit with negative feelings and just accept them, rather than trying to jam them down deep into his soul using alcohol as the tool!

He's also very remorseful. He uses this to remind himself that he never wants to go back 'there'...but it's a fine line, I know he can start to ruminate, which is a trigger for him.

Liveitwell

I've witnessed what I thought was true remorse from my husband but I guess it was not. Wehave-I absolutely called my then husband awful names-when he was treating me or his kids abusively. On the flip side I also always told him that he was so much better than what he had turned into-I had hope in him. 100%. Bc I did love him. I have no hope or love left for him. Everything about him is just an act and an illusion-manufactured guilt and remorse-total act. He sent me a check today for January child support-gee, I wonder why-he's never paid a dime on time for his kids-only paying ahead now bc I filed papers agaibst him. That's the only time he does anything-consummate actor. The For line on the check said, "I'm so sorry". Uh huh. He's just sorry he got caught and is bring held responsible. Fake guilt and remorse-interesting subject.

wehav2day

For, I think with everything he's put you and your girls through, you have every right to have given up on him. As long as he breathes, the miracle can happen and he can recover. I hope he does that for himself and the kids. But you, that ship has sailed. You are a kind loving person who gave him plenty of chances. For your sanity you have said enough is enough and that's ok.

Like the others, I think there's a lot more than alcohol at play here.

Liveitwell

^^ yep-a LOT more than just alcoholism.