Stop the sleuthing!!
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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Stop the sleuthing!!
AH should be getting served the divorce papers this week and I'm feeling really good about it! I'm proud of myself for the strides I've made in standing my ground and putting me first but I must be honest, I'm still a little disappointed in myself in regards to another behavior that I'm trying to break-when I suspect that AH is "hiding his usage". I get into sleuth mode (I'm sure like all codies), its like this relentless pursuit to uncover his drinking/abusing. This has ALWAYS existed but now that we're going through a divorce and he's been claiming sobriety I find the need to prove to him that I KNOW he hasn't been sober!
On Saturday I let him watch my son while I took my daughter somewhere (my parents were in the house with them). He texted me and said "Hitler, do you object to me taking our son to McDonalds for milkshakes". Why did he need to refer to me as Hitler, he's the one who has made this bed of no trust, not me. I decided to call him back so I could hear his voice to make sure he was still sober and he was. I told him it was fine to go. When I got back he asked me why did I feel suspicious about his recent behavior. He asked if it was because he hadn't been by in almost a week. I told him no, that's not why, I have my reasons and I'm not getting into details (I knew it would end up in an argument). He then says thank you Hitler, thank you for giving us permission to leave Deutcheland (or whatever it was called). Last week he got mad at me because he asked if the kids could come stay with him for a few hours and I told him no, not without me and he kept asking me why. He got loud and said "ok Dimndaruf (alias lol), you exercise your power". I did feel a little bad but I had to remind myself that he's a liar and just because he's angry doesn't mean he's sober and telling the truth about being sober. This was just a week ago.
I'll spare all the details but me and my sleuthing self (I know you're all going to give it to me and I'm ready) came back from hanging out with my girlfriends on Saturday night (really Sunday, 4AM) and I decided to call him and pass by his house. Long story short-he was high on pills (I know the difference between HIS drunk and high). He was hanging out too and had must have just gotten back. His toilet seat looked it had dried vomit on it, he was quick to tie up the garbage while I used the restroom. I noticed in the corner of his room a gallon sized poland spring bottle of urine, damn near filled to the top, and I found a Ciroc (vodka) wrapper on the bedroom floor! There it was-the proof I was so longing to find for the past few weeks. This may sound weird but I can't explain the feeling that came over me and I'm embarrassed to say it but it felt like a joy or a satisfaction, I was able to exhale. I felt like saying "this is why I'm Hitler", how dare you yell at me because I don't trust you with my children! I used to get angry but I wasn't angry this time, I was sort of happy; happy that my instincts were right, happy that he put his foot in his mouth and happy that I have proof that he is STILL NOT TO BE TRUSTED!!
He called me off the hook a few hours later that morning and texted me like a mad man. I didn't answer until hours later after I ate breakfast and coached myself. When I did call he said he would come by later to feed and bathe the kids. I knew he wasn't coming, all that calling and texting was an attempt to feel me out and see where my mind was after witnessing what had taken place hours prior. He never came but did call at 10PM to say "pardon me for earlier". I just said uh huh and that was the end of the convo.
I know my obsessive needing to having proof is something that needs to stop but I am glad that I discovered what I did, now I have recent proof and I'm hoping that he doesn't make up a story for the vodka wrapper or try to deny that he was high. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he did, in the past I've caught him literally red handed and he would still deny that he was drunk....smh
Ok SR, c'mon on...give it to me. Tell me about my behavior now! lol
On Saturday I let him watch my son while I took my daughter somewhere (my parents were in the house with them). He texted me and said "Hitler, do you object to me taking our son to McDonalds for milkshakes". Why did he need to refer to me as Hitler, he's the one who has made this bed of no trust, not me. I decided to call him back so I could hear his voice to make sure he was still sober and he was. I told him it was fine to go. When I got back he asked me why did I feel suspicious about his recent behavior. He asked if it was because he hadn't been by in almost a week. I told him no, that's not why, I have my reasons and I'm not getting into details (I knew it would end up in an argument). He then says thank you Hitler, thank you for giving us permission to leave Deutcheland (or whatever it was called). Last week he got mad at me because he asked if the kids could come stay with him for a few hours and I told him no, not without me and he kept asking me why. He got loud and said "ok Dimndaruf (alias lol), you exercise your power". I did feel a little bad but I had to remind myself that he's a liar and just because he's angry doesn't mean he's sober and telling the truth about being sober. This was just a week ago.
I'll spare all the details but me and my sleuthing self (I know you're all going to give it to me and I'm ready) came back from hanging out with my girlfriends on Saturday night (really Sunday, 4AM) and I decided to call him and pass by his house. Long story short-he was high on pills (I know the difference between HIS drunk and high). He was hanging out too and had must have just gotten back. His toilet seat looked it had dried vomit on it, he was quick to tie up the garbage while I used the restroom. I noticed in the corner of his room a gallon sized poland spring bottle of urine, damn near filled to the top, and I found a Ciroc (vodka) wrapper on the bedroom floor! There it was-the proof I was so longing to find for the past few weeks. This may sound weird but I can't explain the feeling that came over me and I'm embarrassed to say it but it felt like a joy or a satisfaction, I was able to exhale. I felt like saying "this is why I'm Hitler", how dare you yell at me because I don't trust you with my children! I used to get angry but I wasn't angry this time, I was sort of happy; happy that my instincts were right, happy that he put his foot in his mouth and happy that I have proof that he is STILL NOT TO BE TRUSTED!!
He called me off the hook a few hours later that morning and texted me like a mad man. I didn't answer until hours later after I ate breakfast and coached myself. When I did call he said he would come by later to feed and bathe the kids. I knew he wasn't coming, all that calling and texting was an attempt to feel me out and see where my mind was after witnessing what had taken place hours prior. He never came but did call at 10PM to say "pardon me for earlier". I just said uh huh and that was the end of the convo.
I know my obsessive needing to having proof is something that needs to stop but I am glad that I discovered what I did, now I have recent proof and I'm hoping that he doesn't make up a story for the vodka wrapper or try to deny that he was high. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he did, in the past I've caught him literally red handed and he would still deny that he was drunk....smh
Ok SR, c'mon on...give it to me. Tell me about my behavior now! lol
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I think you're in a position where this is about your children's safety and not about having a codie "gotcha" moment. If he's sneaking pills and booze while he's supposed to be caring for the kids, that's a serious issue. Don't worry about mentioning it to him, but I think it's a good idea to keep documenting his drinking and drugging behavior, especially when the children are in his care.
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This behavior sounds rather familiar. I can tell you how I learned to break that behavior, because I know I did my share of sleuthing to continue to justify something that I frankly didn't need to continue to justify.
My AXBF never proved himself to be trustworthy once he broke my trust. I did the sleuthing on two parts: to see for myself if he really was sincere about things, and to confirm my feelings of distrust. We get in the habit of doing all the work, so we will form the habit of proving whether or not they are to be trusted.
But here's the deal. You don't need to justify what you're feeling. You know why he can't be trusted or believed, and so does he. So, you don't have to show him. All you have to do is realize your distrust is justified, and that he's not done anything to try to gain that trust back.
This is why they get mad sometimes - they don't do anything to turn the situation around, but don't understand why time alone doesn't absolve them of responsibility.
It sounds like, for the most part, you're not engaging that argument though. The "I have my reasons" response is the good response when you have to respond.
As for the sleuthing, just try to remember you don't need any additional proof. He's provided plenty already, and has put zero effort into winning your trust back. That takes time and effort, not declarations and claims. Maybe he'll get it, maybe he won't. That's not on you, though.
Keep sticking to your guns and boundaries. He'll keep throwing his fits until her realizes you're not backing down.
My AXBF never proved himself to be trustworthy once he broke my trust. I did the sleuthing on two parts: to see for myself if he really was sincere about things, and to confirm my feelings of distrust. We get in the habit of doing all the work, so we will form the habit of proving whether or not they are to be trusted.
But here's the deal. You don't need to justify what you're feeling. You know why he can't be trusted or believed, and so does he. So, you don't have to show him. All you have to do is realize your distrust is justified, and that he's not done anything to try to gain that trust back.
This is why they get mad sometimes - they don't do anything to turn the situation around, but don't understand why time alone doesn't absolve them of responsibility.
It sounds like, for the most part, you're not engaging that argument though. The "I have my reasons" response is the good response when you have to respond.
As for the sleuthing, just try to remember you don't need any additional proof. He's provided plenty already, and has put zero effort into winning your trust back. That takes time and effort, not declarations and claims. Maybe he'll get it, maybe he won't. That's not on you, though.
Keep sticking to your guns and boundaries. He'll keep throwing his fits until her realizes you're not backing down.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler 
I think you're in a position where this is about your children's safety and not about having a codie "gotcha" moment. If he's sneaking pills and booze while he's supposed to be caring for the kids, that's a serious issue. Don't worry about mentioning it to him, but I think it's a good idea to keep documenting his drinking and drugging behavior, especially when the children are in his care.
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Ok so now you have proof of something you already knew, something that made you go to visit him at 4AM ………what do you plan do with your proof?
And why do you continue to engage and debate, argue with someone who you know is not in their right mind but always under the influence?
What’s your benefit to proving you are right?
And why do you continue to engage and debate, argue with someone who you know is not in their right mind but always under the influence?
What’s your benefit to proving you are right?
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Originally Posted by atalose
what do you plan do with your proof?
And why do you continue to engage and debate, argue with someone who you know is not in their right mind but always under the influence?
What’s your benefit to proving you are right?
And why do you continue to engage and debate, argue with someone who you know is not in their right mind but always under the influence?
What’s your benefit to proving you are right?
I no longer argue with him, I just say ok or I'm not getting into that....
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My proof will now cause him to no longer harass me about trusting him with the kids....I don't have to worry about him calling me "Hitler" or accuse me of "exercising my power" because his jig is up!
Are you going to al-anon?
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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Again-very true what At and anvil said-just bc you have evidence, don't think that is going to make him see the light or change-it won't. In fact, he will prob just get more irate with you. Who knows, and really who cares-the only thing that matters is your kids safety. And he's proven with his actions he cannot and should not be trusted. Period.
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Dimindaruf.....I understand why your wanted concrete "proof". Your reasons make sense to me. It is about the safety of the kids, I think......and he always argues with you about it......
but, now you "know" for sure. You know what you know!
You will develop more self confidence as you go along...in these sort of challenges that he throws at you....
Progress....not perfection....and, you are making a lot...lot....of progress!!
dandylion
but, now you "know" for sure. You know what you know!
You will develop more self confidence as you go along...in these sort of challenges that he throws at you....
Progress....not perfection....and, you are making a lot...lot....of progress!!
dandylion
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Are they his children as well? You keep referring to them as "your children".
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I guess what jumped out at me most about your sleuthing story was that you were out with girlfriends at 4AM. Were you drinking too, or was this a sober ladies night? I can totally understand your need to break through his denial. I hate it when people lie to my face. But it sounds like you realize that 4AM visits are not good for your level of detachment or the progress of your marital separation. For one thing, it sets a precedent. How would you feel if he showed up at your place at 4AM? That could really cut into your future love life. The most serene path forward will probably lie in learning to brush off his BS quacking comments, rather than trying to disprove them.
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If you think his knowledge about YOUR knowledge will make him back off with the accusations, you've got another think coming. What do you think denial IS? It's a steadfast refusal to acknowledge the truth, even when there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
And jjj makes a very good point--your complaints about his behavior lose a lot of their credibility when you do crazy stuff like "just dropping by" his house at 4 am. If it were you telling me that HE did that, I'd be telling you to consider getting a protective order. As it is, I doubt he could prove he's in any fear of you, but he could sure make a good case for harassment.
This isn't a game, or a contest, between the two of you--or it shouldn't be--but that is how your posts sound, like you're keeping score. Focus on what's good for you and your kids, rather than one-upping him.
And jjj makes a very good point--your complaints about his behavior lose a lot of their credibility when you do crazy stuff like "just dropping by" his house at 4 am. If it were you telling me that HE did that, I'd be telling you to consider getting a protective order. As it is, I doubt he could prove he's in any fear of you, but he could sure make a good case for harassment.
This isn't a game, or a contest, between the two of you--or it shouldn't be--but that is how your posts sound, like you're keeping score. Focus on what's good for you and your kids, rather than one-upping him.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
And jjj makes a very good point--your complaints about his behavior lose a lot of their credibility when you do crazy stuff like "just dropping by" his house at 4 am. If it were you telling me that HE did that, I'd be telling you to consider getting a protective order. As it is, I doubt he could prove he's in any fear of you, but he could sure make a good case for harassment.
I didn't just show up at his door. He was willing and invited me in despite him being high but we never even got to the sex and I ended up leaving. Maybe he thought I wouldn't be able to tell or he just didn't care. I learned my lesson and it will NEVER happen again.
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Still, you called him at 4 AM, for a BOOTY CALL. All he has to do is to describe that scenario in court, and you STILL lose a ton of credibility. Not to mention, you are still inviting him over on a regular basis to tuck in the kids.
You are making this much more confusing for everyone than it needs to be.
You are making this much more confusing for everyone than it needs to be.
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Originally Posted by Dimndaruf
I called AH that night/morning to have a no strings attached sex session.
Regarding the sleuthing: My own sleuthing diminished when my XAH's drinking stopped being my problem. As long as you keep those strings attached it's going to be your problem, and the sleuthing habit is going to be a lot harder to break.
Do these 4am visits happen often?
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I would just like to point out that sex causes women's bodies to release hormones that increase emotional attachment to the man they are sleeping with, and this hormone reaction is far stronger in women than in men. Continuing to sleep with him may make things far more difficult for you in the long run, emotionally, legally, and well, it can't be all that good for your self esteem to be looking for a booty call with a drug abuser who you don't consider a good enough person to see his kids without supervision.
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