Warding off guilt and anxiety
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Laurelton
Posts: 178
Warding off guilt and anxiety
Yesterday my AH texted me to say that his "lawyer guy" said that he won't be able to get to our divorce case until about 4-6 months. In a convo about a week ago he told me that he had spoken to his lawyer and he was told that he would be able to include what AH wanted in the agreement (terms & conditions ) that I'd written and given to him. Months prior to that he said he wanted to put some sort of clause that would ensure that I could never in the future take him to court for child support once we agree on a monthly amount. I said "whatever"! So back to yesterday...I asked him why would his lawyer NOW tell him that if they had a consultation a week or so ago. I suspected something was fishy, either he never consulted with a lawyer to begin with (who calls their lawyer "my lawyer guy") or he was just completely lying all together to test me because he then asked me if I had retained my lawyer already and I told him "yes". Then he says "as in paid a lawyer" and I again said "yes". That was the end of the conversation yesterday morning.
Yesterday afternoon when I'm on my way home from work I get a text from him stating that he will be unable to make it over to help with the kids. I never replied. My mind began to race wondering if he was just depressed over the reality of the earlier text conversation or could it have possibly caused him to start drinking or taking pills (when he's trying to not drink, he replaces). We never spoke for the evening. Today while on lunch I decided to get lunch a few blocks from his house so that I could see if his car was there (I suspected that he may not have gone to work) as it's only 10 mins from where I work. And as I suspected his car was there! I didn't want to jump the gun so I decided to call him, maybe he was home sick or just tired. I had a good reason to call-he's late on his day care payment to me for the week, which is due every Monday. He didn't answer...
I'm starting to worry that he may have relapsed as this is all too familiar behavior. Part of me feels a bit guilty and I KNOW I SHOULDN'T but I do for some reason. I'm the only one who ever has the ability to pull him out of his binges but I'm worried because this time around the circumstances are different and I can no longer go to his house and hold him, talk to him and encourage him to come stay with me and the kids so he can dry out. I was worried that the divorce would be too much for him to handle and although I'm doing the right thing for me and my kids I feel like I have to coach myself to keep my codie tendencies at bay. SR please give me strength...
Yesterday afternoon when I'm on my way home from work I get a text from him stating that he will be unable to make it over to help with the kids. I never replied. My mind began to race wondering if he was just depressed over the reality of the earlier text conversation or could it have possibly caused him to start drinking or taking pills (when he's trying to not drink, he replaces). We never spoke for the evening. Today while on lunch I decided to get lunch a few blocks from his house so that I could see if his car was there (I suspected that he may not have gone to work) as it's only 10 mins from where I work. And as I suspected his car was there! I didn't want to jump the gun so I decided to call him, maybe he was home sick or just tired. I had a good reason to call-he's late on his day care payment to me for the week, which is due every Monday. He didn't answer...
I'm starting to worry that he may have relapsed as this is all too familiar behavior. Part of me feels a bit guilty and I KNOW I SHOULDN'T but I do for some reason. I'm the only one who ever has the ability to pull him out of his binges but I'm worried because this time around the circumstances are different and I can no longer go to his house and hold him, talk to him and encourage him to come stay with me and the kids so he can dry out. I was worried that the divorce would be too much for him to handle and although I'm doing the right thing for me and my kids I feel like I have to coach myself to keep my codie tendencies at bay. SR please give me strength...
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Everything having to do with your divorce and support/custody arrangements should be going through your lawyer.
My friend, you are not responsible for how he feels about what is happening and you are especially not responsible for what he does with those feelings. Every ounce of energy you spend worrying about him is energy you cannot spend taking care of yourself and your kids.
It may have seemed in the past that you were "the only one who ever has the ability to pull him out of his binges" but that is an illusion. The only one who ever has, or ever will, managed that is HIM.
My friend, you are not responsible for how he feels about what is happening and you are especially not responsible for what he does with those feelings. Every ounce of energy you spend worrying about him is energy you cannot spend taking care of yourself and your kids.
It may have seemed in the past that you were "the only one who ever has the ability to pull him out of his binges" but that is an illusion. The only one who ever has, or ever will, managed that is HIM.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
His "lawyer guy"? LOL. Won't be able to "get to the case for 4-6 months." If that was true he would give him a referral to another attorney. He's dragging his feet hoping you'll change your mind, hence all the questions about retainers, etc.
Your lawyer files the paperwork. He has X amount of time to respond, retain and attorney, etc. That's how it works. You're paying good money here. That gives you the right not to deal with all this back and forth quacking bs. His lawyer should be contacting your lawyer with any and all such queries. I think I told my ex 10,000 times, "You'll have to have your lawyer talk to my lawyer about that." The number of times he took me up on that offer- 0, zilch, goose egg, nil. A lot of this nonsense will settle down if he sees that he literally has to pay money to pester you and pick fights.
Now, take a deep breath and repeat after me, "Have your lawyer call my lawyer to discuss that."
Your lawyer files the paperwork. He has X amount of time to respond, retain and attorney, etc. That's how it works. You're paying good money here. That gives you the right not to deal with all this back and forth quacking bs. His lawyer should be contacting your lawyer with any and all such queries. I think I told my ex 10,000 times, "You'll have to have your lawyer talk to my lawyer about that." The number of times he took me up on that offer- 0, zilch, goose egg, nil. A lot of this nonsense will settle down if he sees that he literally has to pay money to pester you and pick fights.
Now, take a deep breath and repeat after me, "Have your lawyer call my lawyer to discuss that."
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
The "lawyer guy" is probably some lawyer he drinks with at the bar.
And it's an illusion that you are the one "pulling him out of his binges." Binges don't last forever, that's what makes them "binges."
You're driving yourself crazy with the sleuthing--stop it. It isn't helping you, nor is it telling you anything you need to know. He's an alcoholic, he will drink.
File your divorce papers. If he doesn't respond, you get a default judgment. If he does respond, then your lawyer will deal with it.
We've already suggested that you stop discussing the divorce with him. It's a monumental waste of time.
And it's an illusion that you are the one "pulling him out of his binges." Binges don't last forever, that's what makes them "binges."
You're driving yourself crazy with the sleuthing--stop it. It isn't helping you, nor is it telling you anything you need to know. He's an alcoholic, he will drink.
File your divorce papers. If he doesn't respond, you get a default judgment. If he does respond, then your lawyer will deal with it.
We've already suggested that you stop discussing the divorce with him. It's a monumental waste of time.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it sounds like he's pouting....you called his bluff. you are standing your ground so he's gonna have himself a Pity Party. first let's blow off OUR OWN CHILDREN. nice. THEN let's blow off work. BRILLIANT.
he is perfectly capable of taking care of himself and making his own decisions, however poor those decisions might be. this is just further proof why he is really not good partner or parent material. he's completely self absorbed.
this is a terrific NA pamplet about this very thing - for YOU to read m'dear, not send to him! he could easily find this online or at any NA meeting he waltzed into. THERE IS A SOLUTION and it's not that hard to find.
The Triangle of Self-Obsession
This is NA Fellowship-approved literature.
Copyright © 1983 by
Narcotics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
All rights reserved.
When we are born we are conscious only of ourselves, we are the universe. We perceive little other than our basic needs, and if these needs are met we are content. As our consciousness expands we become aware of a world outside ourselves. We discover that there are people, places, and things around us, and that they fulfill our needs. At this point we also begin to recognize differences and develop preferences. We learn to want and choose. We are the center of a growing universe and expect to be provided with the things we need and want. Our source of contentment shifts from basic needs miraculously met to the fulfillment of our desires.
Most children, through experiences over a period of time, come to realize that the outside world cannot provide all their wants and needs. They begin to supplement what is given to them with their own efforts. As their dependency on people, places, and things decreases they begin to look to themselves more and more. They become more self-sufficient and learn that happiness and contentment come from within. Most continue to mature; they recognize and accept their strengths, weaknesses, and limitations. At some point, they usually seek the help of a Power greater than themselves to provide the things they cannot provide for themselves. For most people, growing up is a natural process.
As addicts, however, we seem to falter along the way. We never seem to outgrow the selfcenteredness of the child. We never seem to find the self-sufficiency that others do. We continue to depend on the world around us and refuse to accept that we will not be given everything. We become self-obsessed; our wants and needs become demands. We reach a point where contentment and fulfillment are impossible. People, places, and things cannot possibly fill the
emptiness inside of us, and we react to them with resentment, anger, and fear. Resentment, anger, and fear make up the triangle of self-obsession. All of our defects of character are forms of these three reactions.
Self-obsession is at the heart of our insanity. Resentment is the way most of us react to our past. It is the reliving of past experiences, again and again in our minds. Anger is the way most of us deal with the present. It is our reaction to and denial of reality. Fear is what we feel when we think about the future. It is our response to the unknown; a fantasy in reverse. All three of these things are expressions of our self-obsession.
They are the way that we react when people, places, and things (past, present, and future) do not live up to our demands.
In Narcotics Anonymous we are given a new way of life and a new set of tools. These are the Twelve Steps, and we work them to the best of our ability. If we stay clean, and can learn to practice these principles in all our affairs, a miracle happens. We find freedom—from drugs,
from our addiction, and from our self-obsession. Resentment is replaced with acceptance; anger is replaced with love; and fear is replaced with faith. We have a disease that, in the end, forces us to seek help. We are fortunate that we are given only one choice; one last chance. We must break the triangle of self-obsession; we must grow up, or die.
The way we react to people, places, and things:
Negative Positive
Resentment Past Acceptance
Anger Present Love
Fear Future Faith
he is perfectly capable of taking care of himself and making his own decisions, however poor those decisions might be. this is just further proof why he is really not good partner or parent material. he's completely self absorbed.
this is a terrific NA pamplet about this very thing - for YOU to read m'dear, not send to him! he could easily find this online or at any NA meeting he waltzed into. THERE IS A SOLUTION and it's not that hard to find.
The Triangle of Self-Obsession
This is NA Fellowship-approved literature.
Copyright © 1983 by
Narcotics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
All rights reserved.
When we are born we are conscious only of ourselves, we are the universe. We perceive little other than our basic needs, and if these needs are met we are content. As our consciousness expands we become aware of a world outside ourselves. We discover that there are people, places, and things around us, and that they fulfill our needs. At this point we also begin to recognize differences and develop preferences. We learn to want and choose. We are the center of a growing universe and expect to be provided with the things we need and want. Our source of contentment shifts from basic needs miraculously met to the fulfillment of our desires.
Most children, through experiences over a period of time, come to realize that the outside world cannot provide all their wants and needs. They begin to supplement what is given to them with their own efforts. As their dependency on people, places, and things decreases they begin to look to themselves more and more. They become more self-sufficient and learn that happiness and contentment come from within. Most continue to mature; they recognize and accept their strengths, weaknesses, and limitations. At some point, they usually seek the help of a Power greater than themselves to provide the things they cannot provide for themselves. For most people, growing up is a natural process.
As addicts, however, we seem to falter along the way. We never seem to outgrow the selfcenteredness of the child. We never seem to find the self-sufficiency that others do. We continue to depend on the world around us and refuse to accept that we will not be given everything. We become self-obsessed; our wants and needs become demands. We reach a point where contentment and fulfillment are impossible. People, places, and things cannot possibly fill the
emptiness inside of us, and we react to them with resentment, anger, and fear. Resentment, anger, and fear make up the triangle of self-obsession. All of our defects of character are forms of these three reactions.
Self-obsession is at the heart of our insanity. Resentment is the way most of us react to our past. It is the reliving of past experiences, again and again in our minds. Anger is the way most of us deal with the present. It is our reaction to and denial of reality. Fear is what we feel when we think about the future. It is our response to the unknown; a fantasy in reverse. All three of these things are expressions of our self-obsession.
They are the way that we react when people, places, and things (past, present, and future) do not live up to our demands.
In Narcotics Anonymous we are given a new way of life and a new set of tools. These are the Twelve Steps, and we work them to the best of our ability. If we stay clean, and can learn to practice these principles in all our affairs, a miracle happens. We find freedom—from drugs,
from our addiction, and from our self-obsession. Resentment is replaced with acceptance; anger is replaced with love; and fear is replaced with faith. We have a disease that, in the end, forces us to seek help. We are fortunate that we are given only one choice; one last chance. We must break the triangle of self-obsession; we must grow up, or die.
The way we react to people, places, and things:
Negative Positive
Resentment Past Acceptance
Anger Present Love
Fear Future Faith
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Sounds like typical active-alcoholic BS to me (the kind of crap I'd have spouted in some mad desperate bid to gain control without doing anything).
You're not responsible for him. You cannot control him.
'...serenity to accept the things you cannot change (HIM), and courage to change the things you can (your own life) and the wisdom to know the difference."
Bless you - it sounds like your life can only be better without him in it.
You're not responsible for him. You cannot control him.
'...serenity to accept the things you cannot change (HIM), and courage to change the things you can (your own life) and the wisdom to know the difference."
Bless you - it sounds like your life can only be better without him in it.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!!!!!! 
Ummmm, this is some serious Codie Quacking too! 
HE has every bit of ability, control & power to pull HIMSELF out of his own binges. Don't martyr yourself to this theory of "help", it's slippery slope for a Codie.
You've changed things & he is going to struggle in response since he's still only focused on HIS needs through all of this..... otherwise he would have still showed up for his kids. But, that also illustrates for you how much you cannot rely on his help during this process, he's going to "punish" you in small ways like this apparently.
Hang in there Dim, seeing this as the manipulation it really is, is a difficult & necessary step for your recovery, good job! Stay strong!
I'm the only one who ever has the ability to pull him out of his binges
HE has every bit of ability, control & power to pull HIMSELF out of his own binges. Don't martyr yourself to this theory of "help", it's slippery slope for a Codie.
You've changed things & he is going to struggle in response since he's still only focused on HIS needs through all of this..... otherwise he would have still showed up for his kids. But, that also illustrates for you how much you cannot rely on his help during this process, he's going to "punish" you in small ways like this apparently.
Hang in there Dim, seeing this as the manipulation it really is, is a difficult & necessary step for your recovery, good job! Stay strong!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Laurelton
Posts: 178
You all are right, and that's why I come to you in times like these. I have to be strong and learn to detach COMPLETELY, its hard emotionally but I can do it!!
"Have your lawyer call my lawyer to discuss that."........GOT IT!!
Thank you.
"Have your lawyer call my lawyer to discuss that."........GOT IT!!
Thank you.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
Good Lord almighty! All of it-some serious ********! I think your "I am the only one that can pull him out of his binges" rivals my ex mils fantasies and delusions for Codie quack of the year!! (I'm allowed to say this-and poke fun at it as a recovered Codie !). Seriously though, he's just spewing typical alki BS-prob a lot of what you read from others on this forum-same old pity party, woe is me, avoidance of HIS reality, etc. Sounds just like my ex after he was served with divorce papers. Total inability to see beyond himself and his own selfish ways. My ex ditched his kids as well.
D-you are going to be just fine. You have nothing to feel bad about-of course he's going to go off the deep end during/after the divorce-he's am alcoholic-it's what they do!! That's not your fault.
And yes, have your attorney talk to my attorney-learn it, use it!
D-you are going to be just fine. You have nothing to feel bad about-of course he's going to go off the deep end during/after the divorce-he's am alcoholic-it's what they do!! That's not your fault.
And yes, have your attorney talk to my attorney-learn it, use it!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I had a hard time separating from the emotional enmeshment I had with my ah. I longed for physical separation - all other forms of separation. I embraced them - RAN towards it when I finally decided I was going to. The emotional enmeshment though was undefined. The boundaries had been gone for a long long time. He was anxious or afraid, I was anxious or afraid. I felt a physical panic to fix or prevent *his* negative emotions. I felt a pull in my chest to fix, do for, control, care take, etc. I did not separate from him. There would be an incident between us (not really a fight because I was mostly silent while he ranted and raved for hours) or a crazy town email and I would cry -- for him and what he was going through. It didn't occur to me to cry for myself. I had disappeared in the fog.
It does not matter what you agreed to before. You have the right to change your mind. Everyone does. You have the right to decide differently about what is best for your kids. It is your responsibility to make the best decisions based on what you know today. Today - you know more than you did yesterday.
Keep taking one step at a time, making the best decisions for you and your children. Just do the next right thing and it will all work out.
For what it is worth my husband did go completely off the deep end after our divorce. Then he got sober. All by himself. Without me 'help'.
It does not matter what you agreed to before. You have the right to change your mind. Everyone does. You have the right to decide differently about what is best for your kids. It is your responsibility to make the best decisions based on what you know today. Today - you know more than you did yesterday.
Keep taking one step at a time, making the best decisions for you and your children. Just do the next right thing and it will all work out.
For what it is worth my husband did go completely off the deep end after our divorce. Then he got sober. All by himself. Without me 'help'.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Your posts really hit home for me because I had similar feelings and processes to work through.
These two links are from another forum here on SR but they were really helpful for me (I read them over and over and over) so I'll share here in case they are helpful for you too.
ACA Bill of Rights
Handling Guilt
There are so many things out there on boundaries and enmeshment. This link was one of the first I read that led me to thinking more about my boundaries. I had never thought of myself as having problems in that area but it turns out it was one of my biggest problems. Those were issues I brought with me and it was like pouring gas on a fire when it come to my relationship with an alcoholic.
Emotional Boundareis
These two links are from another forum here on SR but they were really helpful for me (I read them over and over and over) so I'll share here in case they are helpful for you too.
ACA Bill of Rights
Handling Guilt
There are so many things out there on boundaries and enmeshment. This link was one of the first I read that led me to thinking more about my boundaries. I had never thought of myself as having problems in that area but it turns out it was one of my biggest problems. Those were issues I brought with me and it was like pouring gas on a fire when it come to my relationship with an alcoholic.
Emotional Boundareis
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Very respectfully, what in your experience suggests, even for a moment, that he is capable of telling the truth? His pants are, and always will be on fire until he quits drinking and is in recovery for a long, long time and you know it.
You know it. You know it. You know it! Believe yourself, not the drinking alcoholic that has demonstrated over and over again for years that he is not capable of telling the truth. Come on!!!
Proceed on that basis at all times and things will be easier... they may not be great, but they'll be less ****** than otherwise.
Kindly,
Cyranoak
You know it. You know it. You know it! Believe yourself, not the drinking alcoholic that has demonstrated over and over again for years that he is not capable of telling the truth. Come on!!!
Proceed on that basis at all times and things will be easier... they may not be great, but they'll be less ****** than otherwise.
Kindly,
Cyranoak
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
Thumper abd cry-thank you for such valuable words. Cry-you hit the nail on the head. I think that is one if the hardest things about dealing with an alcoholic...,those of us with good natures and good intentions that truly hope for the best (us Codie's) just don't want to believe that this person we love could lie to us as much as they do. I know I did not want to believe it-and my ex did not either as he proclaimed himself theost honest person he knew...uh huh. It's hard to accept the pathological lies as reality-but that is the truth abd as cry stated, moving forward armed with this knowledge would be a wise decision vs owning any guilt or allowing anxiety in your peaceful life.
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