Help - losing her and self esteem is flip flopping
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Help - losing her and self esteem is flip flopping
She's a functional alcoholic. We've known each other three years. I last broke up with her officially a little over a year ago, after a terrible alcohol-infused argument, a hidden bottle of wine in a laundry bag, and her subsequent refusal to either stop or seek professional help. But we've been in steady contact since.
I finally got her to see a top-notch addiction therapist in August. She's been vigilant about attending weekly and continues to this day. But she hasn't stopped drinking - as far as I know she "moderates" it (i.e. no more blackouts?), but she still casually drinks regularly. And she has yet to attend support meetings as her therapist has advocated.
I thought the therapy was the credible sign I need to start rebuilding things with her. She and I had also been attending weekly couples counseling to work on our problems, including alcohol. But she's now come to the epiphany that my hot/cold history with her hurt her esteem, I've never "accepted her for her", and now that she's building her esteem again she doesn't want to re-risk it by opening up to me and me "suddenly disappearing". She's also falling for another person who she says *does* accept her for her and has never gone cold on her. He also drinks, of course.
She's pushed back at me so hard recently, about how much of a role I also played in our downfall and her historic low self esteem. She's wants me to acknowledge the role I played. But.. I really don't think I did anything wrong. I broke up with her, yes, but for what I thought were very good reasons. And not without compassion. And I continued to be there in whatever way I could, including helping her set up the therapy she's relying on today. I really think it was the alcohol, period, that brought us down. But she's pushing back so hard against that idea, I no longer know what to think, or if I too made grave mistakes that broke down this fantastic relationship we could never quite sustain.
Help. I don't know what to think.
I finally got her to see a top-notch addiction therapist in August. She's been vigilant about attending weekly and continues to this day. But she hasn't stopped drinking - as far as I know she "moderates" it (i.e. no more blackouts?), but she still casually drinks regularly. And she has yet to attend support meetings as her therapist has advocated.
I thought the therapy was the credible sign I need to start rebuilding things with her. She and I had also been attending weekly couples counseling to work on our problems, including alcohol. But she's now come to the epiphany that my hot/cold history with her hurt her esteem, I've never "accepted her for her", and now that she's building her esteem again she doesn't want to re-risk it by opening up to me and me "suddenly disappearing". She's also falling for another person who she says *does* accept her for her and has never gone cold on her. He also drinks, of course.
She's pushed back at me so hard recently, about how much of a role I also played in our downfall and her historic low self esteem. She's wants me to acknowledge the role I played. But.. I really don't think I did anything wrong. I broke up with her, yes, but for what I thought were very good reasons. And not without compassion. And I continued to be there in whatever way I could, including helping her set up the therapy she's relying on today. I really think it was the alcohol, period, that brought us down. But she's pushing back so hard against that idea, I no longer know what to think, or if I too made grave mistakes that broke down this fantastic relationship we could never quite sustain.
Help. I don't know what to think.
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These are some texts she sent me during the last time we talked, on Monday (only via text - I could no longer reach her by phone or in person):
I spent a great deal of time speaking with friends and family about the sudden change in your nature...or at least, your presentation of it to me after nearly 3 years of an on/off switch being flipped by you
I don't really understand how if you were ever willing to accept me for me, you were frequent enough with judgment of me followed by subsequent pullback
As much as I deserve the reality of every time I hurt you, you also should be awake to the fact of what your off periods did to my esteem and self value
You blaming solely alcohol not only tears at me but also reminds me that you are not actually willing to accept me for me
I don't know what we could have done differently. All I know is that my sense of confidence and self worth have risen tremendously in the last year. And I take gray pride in that. And I am absolutely unwilling to let that be compromised.
I'm never going to live up to your expectations that you've quite clearly set
I feel like I cant get to that last percent of closure until you sincerely take culpability for your errors with me.
I'm doing it now by admitting to addictive behaviors.
And feeling apologetic.
For real apologetic.
I'm doing it now by admitting to addictive behaviors.
And feeling apologetic.
For real apologetic.
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Well, you're going to have to come to some resolution eventually. You can get off the roller coaster any time you wish, without her permission or approval. She's still drinking and now she has someone else she's interested in. The texts are what we call "quacking." It's just babbling that makes little sense when viewed in the context of the relationship.
What are you holding on to, exactly? There are lots of women who aren't alcoholics looking for a nice guy.
You shouldn't have to accept unacceptable behavior, and her drinking is certainly that, right?
When I broke up with my ex, I couldn't have cared less if he thought I was wrong. It just doesn't matter.
What are you holding on to, exactly? There are lots of women who aren't alcoholics looking for a nice guy.
You shouldn't have to accept unacceptable behavior, and her drinking is certainly that, right?
When I broke up with my ex, I couldn't have cared less if he thought I was wrong. It just doesn't matter.
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you two will probably never come to complete agreement on
A) what the relationship was like for each person and
B) what caused the demise of said relationship
you are entitled to your viewpoint, and she is entitled to HERS. as it is you two officially broke OFF the relationship a YEAR ago. altho you remained in close contact. you did the footwork to get her connected with a therapist and had some EXPECTATIONS about what would be the result.....she'd get sober, you two would get back together. only it didn't work out that way.
she's right, you could not accept HER for HER AND her DRINKING. and that is ok!!! but the flip side of that is, she doesn't have to CHANGE a thing just to be what you want. if she changes, it must be for HER.
so we have a relationship that has been over for a year, and now she is becoming romantically involved with someone else. i believe now is the time to start the process of LETTING GO. be glad for the time you had, wish her well, and maybe consider continuing therapy just for YOU now.
A) what the relationship was like for each person and
B) what caused the demise of said relationship
you are entitled to your viewpoint, and she is entitled to HERS. as it is you two officially broke OFF the relationship a YEAR ago. altho you remained in close contact. you did the footwork to get her connected with a therapist and had some EXPECTATIONS about what would be the result.....she'd get sober, you two would get back together. only it didn't work out that way.
she's right, you could not accept HER for HER AND her DRINKING. and that is ok!!! but the flip side of that is, she doesn't have to CHANGE a thing just to be what you want. if she changes, it must be for HER.
so we have a relationship that has been over for a year, and now she is becoming romantically involved with someone else. i believe now is the time to start the process of LETTING GO. be glad for the time you had, wish her well, and maybe consider continuing therapy just for YOU now.
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2 thoughts as I read this:
1: She states in one of her texts that "I'm never going to live up to your expectations that you've quite clearly set." She's right. She never will, and she's telling you so. It's up to you to decide what to do with this. Do you think your expectations were fair?
2: She drinks. To excess. This has caused problems. You (quite rightly, in my opinion) backed off in order to protect yourself and bring serenity back into your life.
She is still drinking. The demise of the relationship is partly on you, because you weren't willing to accept her behavior anymore. This is called "setting good boundaries." She, of course, doesn't like that you have set boundaries for yourself.
But unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior. As Bimini said, you have every right to get off of the roller coaster.
1: She states in one of her texts that "I'm never going to live up to your expectations that you've quite clearly set." She's right. She never will, and she's telling you so. It's up to you to decide what to do with this. Do you think your expectations were fair?
2: She drinks. To excess. This has caused problems. You (quite rightly, in my opinion) backed off in order to protect yourself and bring serenity back into your life.
She is still drinking. The demise of the relationship is partly on you, because you weren't willing to accept her behavior anymore. This is called "setting good boundaries." She, of course, doesn't like that you have set boundaries for yourself.
But unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior. As Bimini said, you have every right to get off of the roller coaster.
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Sounds to me like it's over--wish her well and focus your "rebuilding" urges on your own life without her.
Incidentally, you'd have no reason to know, but it's not permitted here to quote, verbatim, someone else's texts or emails. She hasn't given permission to have her words posted on the Internet, so please don't post any more of them.
Incidentally, you'd have no reason to know, but it's not permitted here to quote, verbatim, someone else's texts or emails. She hasn't given permission to have her words posted on the Internet, so please don't post any more of them.
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She sounds kind of selfish...but most addicts are...she is saying/doing just enough to keep you in the relationship but truly does not want to change/quit drinking. She hasn't hit her "rock bottom" yet (in my opinion) therefore the drinking is still working for HER...but it isn't for you...and she has someone else that will accept her for her? I think she is just trying to keep you hooked in the relationship..."well, this other guy thinks she is great and is okay with her drinking, so maybe she isn't so bad after all.." not sure if you have thought that, but I know I have in past relationships. Addicts will say/do anything or just enough to get by to get their way...sure she is going to therapy, but she is not sober/ living a sober life...
I am so sorry you are going through this. Only you can decide what you can live with. Relationships take work...but when you add addiction it is so much harder...
I am so sorry you are going through this. Only you can decide what you can live with. Relationships take work...but when you add addiction it is so much harder...
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Thank you everyone, and thank you dearly for your breakdown, Needabreak.
What I ultimately didn't accept was her uninhibited drinking combined with the emotional devastation it unleashed and an unwillingness on her part to even consider help.
It all got so confusing to me recently because I really did think she was committed to finally dealing with her problem. I accept and always have accepted that she's an alcoholic. I just needed her to want to work on that problem.
She seems to now be saying that "acceptance" means accepting the destructive behavior that came with it. I don't know if she's regressing or losing her will or she doesn't get the distinction or what. I really thought we got to a better place with all this, especially with the dual therapy sessions to actually open up and communicate about this.
When I broke up with her, she refused to either stop or seek help. Now she's actively seeking help. That's a crucial difference to me, but she doesn't seem to see a difference there.
Thank you, again.
What I ultimately didn't accept was her uninhibited drinking combined with the emotional devastation it unleashed and an unwillingness on her part to even consider help.
It all got so confusing to me recently because I really did think she was committed to finally dealing with her problem. I accept and always have accepted that she's an alcoholic. I just needed her to want to work on that problem.
She seems to now be saying that "acceptance" means accepting the destructive behavior that came with it. I don't know if she's regressing or losing her will or she doesn't get the distinction or what. I really thought we got to a better place with all this, especially with the dual therapy sessions to actually open up and communicate about this.
When I broke up with her, she refused to either stop or seek help. Now she's actively seeking help. That's a crucial difference to me, but she doesn't seem to see a difference there.
Thank you, again.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Incidentally, you'd have no reason to know, but it's not permitted here to quote, verbatim, someone else's texts or emails. She hasn't given permission to have her words posted on the Internet, so please don't post any more of them.
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When I was drinking I didn't make a lot of sense either. There is real behavior dysfunction and cognitive impairment that occurs during active alcoholism. Trying to figure it out is a bit like nailing Jello to a tree.
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It's OK--as I said, you'd have no reason to know because you're new here.
I'd suggest you forget about trying to get her to "see" the truth about the breakup--who did what, etc. If she someday recovers, she will eventually see the truth. It isn't your job to set her straight. If she thinks badly of you, that's her issue.
The fact is, she's still drinking. Her alcoholism is still progressing. The thought process of active alcoholics is very warped. If I had to guess, she is busily rationalizing her drinking and her behavior so it can be ANYONE's or ANYTHING's fault other than her own drinking.
She has a right to her viewpoint, however messed up it is. If it gives you any comfort, I spent four years after realizing I had a "problem" with alcohol until I was ready to quit--but I eventually got there. I've been sober seven years. She may get there eventually, too, but it could be a very long time and it could get very bad in the meantime.
Wish her the best, and if you're a praying guy, say a few for her.
I'd suggest you forget about trying to get her to "see" the truth about the breakup--who did what, etc. If she someday recovers, she will eventually see the truth. It isn't your job to set her straight. If she thinks badly of you, that's her issue.
The fact is, she's still drinking. Her alcoholism is still progressing. The thought process of active alcoholics is very warped. If I had to guess, she is busily rationalizing her drinking and her behavior so it can be ANYONE's or ANYTHING's fault other than her own drinking.
She has a right to her viewpoint, however messed up it is. If it gives you any comfort, I spent four years after realizing I had a "problem" with alcohol until I was ready to quit--but I eventually got there. I've been sober seven years. She may get there eventually, too, but it could be a very long time and it could get very bad in the meantime.
Wish her the best, and if you're a praying guy, say a few for her.
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Originally Posted by SomethingOther
When I broke up with her, she refused to either stop or seek help. Now she's actively seeking help. That's a crucial difference to me, but she doesn't seem to see a difference there.
It's great that she's seeking help, but even if she seeks out the best help, she will need to want to do the work, too. There's no pill that effortlessly makes everything better. If she's not serious about recovery (and from what you wrote it doesn't sound like she is), there will be hidden drinking, relapses, and months / years of wasted time.
Why bother with that?
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For what it's worth, I've already pretty much accepted it's over (with a heavy, heavy heart). I've largely shut down to her, and I'm no longer trying to seek consensus.
We're scheduled for one final session together with my therapist tomorrow. She wants to get closure by having me acknowledge my major errors in abandoning her, to confirm it wasn't primarily about alcohol. My intention was to read her a final message pinpointing it straight back on alcohol - not to be mean, but as a final act of me refusing to enable her denial. My greatest hope is I'll remain some nagging tiny voice in the back of her head that maybe her memory of why we collapsed doesn't quite add up, and maybe there is an issue that needs addressing.
I've since decided to cancel the meeting. I'm going to email her the message instead (and ask her not to reply - it's not an invitation for debate), then see my therapist on my own. I'll be much better served spending that hour on my own healing vs. seeking an understanding I know won't happen, and seeing someone face to face who will just completely rip open my heart once again.
I love her to death. But I haven't seen her for two weeks and seeing her tomorrow will only set me back. I have to prioritize my own health now.
We're scheduled for one final session together with my therapist tomorrow. She wants to get closure by having me acknowledge my major errors in abandoning her, to confirm it wasn't primarily about alcohol. My intention was to read her a final message pinpointing it straight back on alcohol - not to be mean, but as a final act of me refusing to enable her denial. My greatest hope is I'll remain some nagging tiny voice in the back of her head that maybe her memory of why we collapsed doesn't quite add up, and maybe there is an issue that needs addressing.
I've since decided to cancel the meeting. I'm going to email her the message instead (and ask her not to reply - it's not an invitation for debate), then see my therapist on my own. I'll be much better served spending that hour on my own healing vs. seeking an understanding I know won't happen, and seeing someone face to face who will just completely rip open my heart once again.
I love her to death. But I haven't seen her for two weeks and seeing her tomorrow will only set me back. I have to prioritize my own health now.
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SomethingOther,
Do you realistically think you and her could have a healthy, functioning, trustworthy relationship in the future? I find myself questioning this when I consider how to interact with my ex.
Do you realistically think you and her could have a healthy, functioning, trustworthy relationship in the future? I find myself questioning this when I consider how to interact with my ex.
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I'd suggest that once you send the message, you block her and go completely no-contact. You can tell her that you are going to do that for both of your sakes. And stick with it. Otherwise, it's likely there will just be more back and forth.
Hugs, I think you are a pretty smart guy.
Hugs, I think you are a pretty smart guy.
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Originally Posted by hopepraylove
SomethingOther,
Do you realistically think you and her could have a healthy, functioning, trustworthy relationship in the future? I find myself questioning this when I consider how to interact with my ex.
Do you realistically think you and her could have a healthy, functioning, trustworthy relationship in the future? I find myself questioning this when I consider how to interact with my ex.
But things are falling apart now, so I don't think there's much value me contemplating what's obviously not happening.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
I'd suggest that once you send the message, you block her and go completely no-contact. You can tell her that you are going to do that for both of your sakes. And stick with it. Otherwise, it's likely there will just be more back and forth.
Hugs, I think you are a pretty smart guy.
Hugs, I think you are a pretty smart guy.
This is indescribably painful, but I know everyone here understands.
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SO,
Welcome and good for you for realizing what you need to do for you. We all here want to show our partners the "right" way. Once we realize that they will find that way when they want to, we move forward. No one says that you have to stop loving her, just love her from a distance. Going No contact is really helpful, as it is a painful process. We become addicted to our addict, like they are addicted to their drug of choice. It is a very hard habit to break.
All I recommend is to follow through with what ever you say. If you tell her you are blocking her or not responding to her, Follow through. Because we threaten and don't follow through they laugh when we say stuff.
Good luck at the therapist working on yourself. I am sure you have not heard the last from her. Keep posting and reaching out, there is many years of support on the forum.
Hugs my friend, and take care of you!!
Welcome and good for you for realizing what you need to do for you. We all here want to show our partners the "right" way. Once we realize that they will find that way when they want to, we move forward. No one says that you have to stop loving her, just love her from a distance. Going No contact is really helpful, as it is a painful process. We become addicted to our addict, like they are addicted to their drug of choice. It is a very hard habit to break.
All I recommend is to follow through with what ever you say. If you tell her you are blocking her or not responding to her, Follow through. Because we threaten and don't follow through they laugh when we say stuff.
Good luck at the therapist working on yourself. I am sure you have not heard the last from her. Keep posting and reaching out, there is many years of support on the forum.
Hugs my friend, and take care of you!!
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somethingOther......you can't "lose her". You never had her...she doesn't have herself, even.....right now...alcoholism has her. Alcohol is in control.
You can't fight the disease....you will lose....
My heart goes out to you....you seem very caring and compassionate.....
But, you don't have any choice.....except to do what you know that you have to do. I know that it is very painful for you......
You will be o.k., though, no matter what happens.....
Your love will not be enough.....she will need to learn to love herself....that is the love that will help her......
dandylion
You can't fight the disease....you will lose....
My heart goes out to you....you seem very caring and compassionate.....
But, you don't have any choice.....except to do what you know that you have to do. I know that it is very painful for you......
You will be o.k., though, no matter what happens.....
Your love will not be enough.....she will need to learn to love herself....that is the love that will help her......
dandylion
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