OT - advice needed on co-parenting
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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OT - advice needed on co-parenting
Hi SR friends
I'm after some advice please.
Some of you may know that I separated in 2007, have been through 1 lengthy custody case in 2014 & then another recent one 2 months ago.
The problem I have now that is causing me problems is that my XH has gone no contact with me.
Now no contact with my XH is rather appealing but the fact is we have 2 children together.
What happens now is that if something comes up that either of us would like the children to attend it works like this:
(1) I try to make contact by text & ask if the children can attend or swap days. No response so am unable to say yes or no to events.
(2) He sends messages via the children to ask me things & then they report back to him.
I hate using children as messengers & it is wrong & shouldn't happen.
I was forced to use them recently because it was their grandads 80th birthday & a very special time & I couldn't gain a response.
I don't want to continue this pattern.
In the weekend we'd agreed via the children messengers that although my weekend he could have the eldest daughter for a special wedding. Fine. The other daughter was out of town for sport & started texting me re. him picking her up later & taking her to the wedding. They must've discussed it Friday night when he had them for her birthday but both failed to tell me & I was left trying to make last minute arrangements I knew nothing about on a bus travelling out of town. It's so frustrating. In the end my eldest went to wedding, spoke to her Dad, spoke to her sister & then reported back to me that it was all sorted. She shouldn't have to do this & I don't want her to.
What do I do in this case before life continues to get out of hand.
I did sit my daughter down & tell her I wasn't happy with last minute arrangements & that it should be made in advance.
Do I counts my losses & just not bother to have the children for any special events that fall on his contact days (not that it happens often) & if he wants them & can't bother to communicate to me then he can't have them either.
Grrrr does it ever end?
All advise appreciated.
I'm after some advice please.
Some of you may know that I separated in 2007, have been through 1 lengthy custody case in 2014 & then another recent one 2 months ago.
The problem I have now that is causing me problems is that my XH has gone no contact with me.
Now no contact with my XH is rather appealing but the fact is we have 2 children together.
What happens now is that if something comes up that either of us would like the children to attend it works like this:
(1) I try to make contact by text & ask if the children can attend or swap days. No response so am unable to say yes or no to events.
(2) He sends messages via the children to ask me things & then they report back to him.
I hate using children as messengers & it is wrong & shouldn't happen.
I was forced to use them recently because it was their grandads 80th birthday & a very special time & I couldn't gain a response.
I don't want to continue this pattern.
In the weekend we'd agreed via the children messengers that although my weekend he could have the eldest daughter for a special wedding. Fine. The other daughter was out of town for sport & started texting me re. him picking her up later & taking her to the wedding. They must've discussed it Friday night when he had them for her birthday but both failed to tell me & I was left trying to make last minute arrangements I knew nothing about on a bus travelling out of town. It's so frustrating. In the end my eldest went to wedding, spoke to her Dad, spoke to her sister & then reported back to me that it was all sorted. She shouldn't have to do this & I don't want her to.
What do I do in this case before life continues to get out of hand.
I did sit my daughter down & tell her I wasn't happy with last minute arrangements & that it should be made in advance.
Do I counts my losses & just not bother to have the children for any special events that fall on his contact days (not that it happens often) & if he wants them & can't bother to communicate to me then he can't have them either.
Grrrr does it ever end?
All advise appreciated.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Hi, Rosie,
May not solve all your problems, but there are a number of online "co-parenting" calendars that can be used for scheduling events. If you google, you will find a few. I believe there are a few people here who have found them helpful. I don't know how well they work for a request for change of plans, but if you research them one might fit your needs.
Just a thought.
May not solve all your problems, but there are a number of online "co-parenting" calendars that can be used for scheduling events. If you google, you will find a few. I believe there are a few people here who have found them helpful. I don't know how well they work for a request for change of plans, but if you research them one might fit your needs.
Just a thought.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,423
Thanks Lexie.
I have a contact calendar produced by the court (with errors I might add, typical).
The problem is really special events.
We have a clause in our parenting order that states arrangements are to be made 2 weeks in advance alongside, pick up, drop off, times etc. for special occasions.
I asked back in April re. my Dad's 80th, no response. I tried several times before the event, no response.
I can't communicate with someone who doesn't communicate back.
I could stop sending the children when he wants them for special events unless liaising with me. If I try to ask there is no response so I'd loose out every time.
Frustrating.
I have a contact calendar produced by the court (with errors I might add, typical).
The problem is really special events.
We have a clause in our parenting order that states arrangements are to be made 2 weeks in advance alongside, pick up, drop off, times etc. for special occasions.
I asked back in April re. my Dad's 80th, no response. I tried several times before the event, no response.
I can't communicate with someone who doesn't communicate back.
I could stop sending the children when he wants them for special events unless liaising with me. If I try to ask there is no response so I'd loose out every time.
Frustrating.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Rosie, I would continue to communicate via text because it goes to his personal phone while taking all court mandated orders strictly into account. If you're asking him if you can have the children for your own special event, and he doesn't reply you can take it as no.
If he wishes to do something and doesn't communicate with you directly, then from your POV you won't agree. It would pay to email him and tell him that while you understand that he's angry, you will only accept direct communication via email or text and only in line with the court ordered regime.
You'll have to explain clearly to the girls that you won't accept any messages that come through them. He obviously doesn't care about their welfare to place them in the middle like this.
Is seeing him F2F an option if he doesn't reply to your texts and you need a reply?
If he wishes to do something and doesn't communicate with you directly, then from your POV you won't agree. It would pay to email him and tell him that while you understand that he's angry, you will only accept direct communication via email or text and only in line with the court ordered regime.
You'll have to explain clearly to the girls that you won't accept any messages that come through them. He obviously doesn't care about their welfare to place them in the middle like this.
Is seeing him F2F an option if he doesn't reply to your texts and you need a reply?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I think it's problematic to infer agreement from a lack of response. A more reasonable inference would be lack of agreement. Legally speaking, any change in an agreement has to be consented to by both parties to the agreement. One person can't unilaterally propose a change and say, "Unless I hear otherwise from you I assume you agree."
I think if it's a change that MUST be made (e.g., car has broken down so you aren't available to drop off/pick up) then notice alone should be sufficient--"agreement" is sort of beside the point.
I think if it's a change that MUST be made (e.g., car has broken down so you aren't available to drop off/pick up) then notice alone should be sufficient--"agreement" is sort of beside the point.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I agree Lexie, I am just thinking maybe that would be a way to get him to actually speak with her. That stinks for sure, I have come to realize it is up to us who do the right thing to pay up and take the other person to court, costing us big money to just get them to do their part. Ugh.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Man, I'm sorry, Rosie. It's a completely frustrating place to be in. AXH would pull the same no-response stuff, but if I didn't respond to his queries within a matter of hours (all communication was to be by e-mail), I'd get a whole slew of emails about how uncooperative I am. I don't have any 'fixes' or advice on co-parenting to really help. AXH didn't co-parent at all. I had to just assume that DS wouldn't be able to attend any events that occurred on AXH's weekends; especially if they were events for my family.
When it came to events for DS's friends, I'd just forward the invite to AXH with a note that DS received an invitation for an event on his weekend and copy the other parent sending the invite so they could possibly coordinate times. During the course of 2 years, DS got to go to a single birthday party for a friend on a Dad-weekend.
(I guess, to be fair to AXH, I should note that the kids' birthday parties usually include all the parents hanging out and talking while the kids do what they do. And AXH and his GF didn't exactly endear themselves to the other parents at that 1 birthday party. AXH had an attitude about the "hippy-dippy, tree-huggers" at DS's school.)
Towards the end of that 2-year period, the parents had started asking when my next Saturday with DS was and they'd try to plan their kids' birthday party for that day so DS could attend. Which is a bit extreme, but DS and his friends really appreciated it. (I did, too.)
Hugs, hang in there.
When it came to events for DS's friends, I'd just forward the invite to AXH with a note that DS received an invitation for an event on his weekend and copy the other parent sending the invite so they could possibly coordinate times. During the course of 2 years, DS got to go to a single birthday party for a friend on a Dad-weekend.
(I guess, to be fair to AXH, I should note that the kids' birthday parties usually include all the parents hanging out and talking while the kids do what they do. And AXH and his GF didn't exactly endear themselves to the other parents at that 1 birthday party. AXH had an attitude about the "hippy-dippy, tree-huggers" at DS's school.)
Towards the end of that 2-year period, the parents had started asking when my next Saturday with DS was and they'd try to plan their kids' birthday party for that day so DS could attend. Which is a bit extreme, but DS and his friends really appreciated it. (I did, too.)
Hugs, hang in there.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
IMO, you need to adhere strictly to the parenting plan without attempting to "barter" for exchanging dates or times. HE is the one not contacting YOU. yes the kids might miss some party or wedding or outing, but they'll survive. what you do not want is them to become pawns and either of you using them or their phones to interact does exactly that.
keep a log of all the non-replies, of all the times he goes thru the kids. make sure you don't ADD to this nonsense by trying to rearrange the schedule. FOR NOW. be clear, direct and consistent when you talk to the children about this.
keep a log of all the non-replies, of all the times he goes thru the kids. make sure you don't ADD to this nonsense by trying to rearrange the schedule. FOR NOW. be clear, direct and consistent when you talk to the children about this.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Anvilhead, the parenting order has a clause stating that special occasions eg. family events should be attended & where necessary we are to contact each with 2 weeks notice to arrange pick ups, times etc.
It doesn't happen very often but recently their grandfather who was turning 80 & is very close to them fell on XHs weekend, hence the need for me to have them attend.
I stick to the order by asking well in advance but I get NIL reply.
If he wants them he uses the kids to relay messages.
It's sick really.
I am doing the right thing by the order.
It doesn't happen very often but recently their grandfather who was turning 80 & is very close to them fell on XHs weekend, hence the need for me to have them attend.
I stick to the order by asking well in advance but I get NIL reply.
If he wants them he uses the kids to relay messages.
It's sick really.
I am doing the right thing by the order.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,423
What is weird is that we also have a clause that on the 15th Nov each year he is to advise which 2 week period he wishes to have with the children over the christmas holidays. He is also allowed 1 extended weekend.
He emailed me on the 15th Nov & advised the time he wished to have & asked me to advise which weekends were suitable for additional weekend.
I emailed back & gave 2 options for the additional weekend.
He emailed back & confirmed dates.
It was that simple & he can do it.
Really? I think he communicated because this was something he wanted & it is in the order yet if I want something he chooses to ignore it.
That is selfish, not putting childrens best interests forward & is unreliable coparenting.
He emailed me on the 15th Nov & advised the time he wished to have & asked me to advise which weekends were suitable for additional weekend.
I emailed back & gave 2 options for the additional weekend.
He emailed back & confirmed dates.
It was that simple & he can do it.
Really? I think he communicated because this was something he wanted & it is in the order yet if I want something he chooses to ignore it.
That is selfish, not putting childrens best interests forward & is unreliable coparenting.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
All I can suggest, Rosie, is that if it continues to be a problem, you let the court know it isn't working and you would prefer to have the court spell out everything in detail to avoid this kind of negotiation. It's a tradeoff, of course. But if it works only to his benefit and you aren't being given the same courtesy you are offering him, then you can ask for an ironclad order. Only you can decide which is better for you and the kids.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Yeah, Rosie, it's amazing that they can understand the requirements quite well at certain times... It is incredibly selfish of him and not really co-parenting at all.
At the hearing that AXH actually showed up to, he kept telling the judge "Ok. Yeah. I'll work with TU to make sure we've got it." The judge had to tell him a couple times, "No. I'm telling you the way it's going to be. There won't be anything to work out." It did make dealing with him a lot more straight-forward, even though it also meant that DS and I both had to abide by the no more changes or negotiations for us for special events, too.
At the hearing that AXH actually showed up to, he kept telling the judge "Ok. Yeah. I'll work with TU to make sure we've got it." The judge had to tell him a couple times, "No. I'm telling you the way it's going to be. There won't be anything to work out." It did make dealing with him a lot more straight-forward, even though it also meant that DS and I both had to abide by the no more changes or negotiations for us for special events, too.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
When I was dealing with this issue I chose to never ask for any deviation or accommodation. I'm not sure if that was the best decision but it provided us (kids and I) with the most overall peace and so I don't regret it. It was nice to let the stress, frustration, and resentment surrounding all that drift away.
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