Should I put him out
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 123
Should I put him out
Hello!
All positive feedback needed. Thank you
A while back SR helped me do 90 days NC with my ABF. My head cleared, I worked some steps and healed a lot. It was very painful though, I never got over him, met anyone else or moved on in any other way besides self care.
Through a lot of spiritual practice and right action and coincidences I did get back in touch with him to find out the OW was not what I thought and completely gone.
We got back together but he is not sober, he seeks treatment but doesn't get too far.
He has days here and there, many hospital stays, etc.
The problem is, he is currently staying with me until his apartment comes through which could be this week or later. He is depending on social services so there are no guarantees.
I came up with this wonderful boundary, I thought would just be fabulous and control his drinking.
I'm in al anon of course..ha ha
The boundary was if you've had a drink in the last 24 hours you can't be around either of the kids. We have 2 kids the same age from different marriages
My kid lives at home with me during the week. His he sees his at church but doesn't have custody.
So as promised when he drank one day while I was at work, my son was home and I did not take him back with me that night. We HAD a good thing going on where he was trusting me and always told me when it was a drinking day.
This all changed when I left him on the street without anything for a few days. After that when he relapsed he started hiding it because of being afraid of being put out again.
Now the trust is broken and the honesty which was our saving grace in this disease, is compromised. I can't stand the checking, looking, jailer behavior I feel necessary after the change in honesty.
So Monday my son comes home and if it's another drinking day, I'm really uncomfortable leaving him out there again but at the same time, my boundary is no drinking within 24 hours around my son.
My ABF leaves the house with me every morning to go to his outpatient services while I'm at work, so if he drinks I can leave him like I did before.
Should I do a plan B like they teach in al anon, by bringing a blanket, some of his clothes and medicine just in case its a drinking day?
Last time he got left without even a toothbrush.
I don't know if I can do it again, it's gut wrenching but I have one more day to find a plan since my son isn't home until Monday.
It was easier to slam these boundaries before, I'm finding myself loosing my program and went into
unprecedented rage today when I caught him in a lie. He doesn't ask for couch commitments and I wish he would.
Just as a note, there have been no domestic violence issues and my son has never seen him under the influence or has he disrespected the house in any way when my son is home. He is a clean, sweet, hard worker in the house with the cooking and cleaning. It's pretty tense sometimes but has been safe.
Sorry so long, any thoughts welcome.
Kzen
All positive feedback needed. Thank you
A while back SR helped me do 90 days NC with my ABF. My head cleared, I worked some steps and healed a lot. It was very painful though, I never got over him, met anyone else or moved on in any other way besides self care.
Through a lot of spiritual practice and right action and coincidences I did get back in touch with him to find out the OW was not what I thought and completely gone.
We got back together but he is not sober, he seeks treatment but doesn't get too far.
He has days here and there, many hospital stays, etc.
The problem is, he is currently staying with me until his apartment comes through which could be this week or later. He is depending on social services so there are no guarantees.
I came up with this wonderful boundary, I thought would just be fabulous and control his drinking.
I'm in al anon of course..ha ha
The boundary was if you've had a drink in the last 24 hours you can't be around either of the kids. We have 2 kids the same age from different marriages
My kid lives at home with me during the week. His he sees his at church but doesn't have custody.
So as promised when he drank one day while I was at work, my son was home and I did not take him back with me that night. We HAD a good thing going on where he was trusting me and always told me when it was a drinking day.
This all changed when I left him on the street without anything for a few days. After that when he relapsed he started hiding it because of being afraid of being put out again.
Now the trust is broken and the honesty which was our saving grace in this disease, is compromised. I can't stand the checking, looking, jailer behavior I feel necessary after the change in honesty.
So Monday my son comes home and if it's another drinking day, I'm really uncomfortable leaving him out there again but at the same time, my boundary is no drinking within 24 hours around my son.
My ABF leaves the house with me every morning to go to his outpatient services while I'm at work, so if he drinks I can leave him like I did before.
Should I do a plan B like they teach in al anon, by bringing a blanket, some of his clothes and medicine just in case its a drinking day?
Last time he got left without even a toothbrush.
I don't know if I can do it again, it's gut wrenching but I have one more day to find a plan since my son isn't home until Monday.
It was easier to slam these boundaries before, I'm finding myself loosing my program and went into
unprecedented rage today when I caught him in a lie. He doesn't ask for couch commitments and I wish he would.
Just as a note, there have been no domestic violence issues and my son has never seen him under the influence or has he disrespected the house in any way when my son is home. He is a clean, sweet, hard worker in the house with the cooking and cleaning. It's pretty tense sometimes but has been safe.
Sorry so long, any thoughts welcome.
Kzen
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
I personally would not want an active addict around my child and in charge of him
no matter how well he behaves.
"Tense" translates as stress to children. So does your anger.
Rage is terrifying to children. I grew up with it and it damaged me greatly.
I suggest you keep your boundary and let him sort out his recovery on his own.
You can't fix it anyway--but you can provide a safe, stable, and peaceful
place for your child and yourself to grow. . .
no matter how well he behaves.
"Tense" translates as stress to children. So does your anger.
Rage is terrifying to children. I grew up with it and it damaged me greatly.
I suggest you keep your boundary and let him sort out his recovery on his own.
You can't fix it anyway--but you can provide a safe, stable, and peaceful
place for your child and yourself to grow. . .
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 658
If the boundary has been communicated and last time it cost him being thrown out w/o a toothbrush, then there is precedent. He's still drinking, hasn't hit his bottom yet- whats the win for tending to his comfort when you throw him out? How about he packs his own bag and carries it himself? Plan B is for your comfort and well-being when the addict falls off the deep end.
And of course thats so easy for me to say, I know its not so easy living in it... I'm glad he's not a violent drunk but you're poisoning yourself with the anger & frustration & fear.
And of course thats so easy for me to say, I know its not so easy living in it... I'm glad he's not a violent drunk but you're poisoning yourself with the anger & frustration & fear.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
That sounds like an incredibly complicated and difficult-to-enforce boundary. It also IS clear (to me, anyway, and no doubt to him) that it is intended to control his drinking.
All alcoholics lie about their drinking. It really has nothing to do with whether someone is honest otherwise. So unless and until he grabs hold of recovery and gets solidly sober, you can EXPECT that he will drink and that he will lie about drinking. That's what alcoholics DO.
It's up to you whether you let him continue to live with you. If you absolutely cannot have him around your child if he's been drinking, put him out. It will cause less trouble for everyone (including you and your child) than this "boundary" that doesn't seem to be working for anyone.
All alcoholics lie about their drinking. It really has nothing to do with whether someone is honest otherwise. So unless and until he grabs hold of recovery and gets solidly sober, you can EXPECT that he will drink and that he will lie about drinking. That's what alcoholics DO.
It's up to you whether you let him continue to live with you. If you absolutely cannot have him around your child if he's been drinking, put him out. It will cause less trouble for everyone (including you and your child) than this "boundary" that doesn't seem to be working for anyone.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
I think it will be a good thing that he moves into his own apartment.....underlining what Hawkeye just said on the subject of the effect it is having in your home.....
These kinds of relationships are to enrich your life.....not drain you....and, most certainly---not have an adverse effect on your child.....
It is about thriving.....not just existing..
It sounded like you did better with distance from him...and working in alanon, etc......that should be some kind of message...shouldn't it?
If he is ever to get into genuine, long lasting recovery....he will have to do it on his own with his own h ard work...
lol....what in the world are "couch commitments"?
dandylion.
These kinds of relationships are to enrich your life.....not drain you....and, most certainly---not have an adverse effect on your child.....
It is about thriving.....not just existing..
It sounded like you did better with distance from him...and working in alanon, etc......that should be some kind of message...shouldn't it?
If he is ever to get into genuine, long lasting recovery....he will have to do it on his own with his own h ard work...
lol....what in the world are "couch commitments"?
dandylion.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 715
Now the trust is broken and the honesty which was our saving grace in this disease, is compromised. I can't stand the checking, looking, jailer behavior I feel necessary after the change in honesty.
^^^^^^^ Kay? Are you really surprised?? ^^^^^^^^
Alcoholics lie... This is what they do....
I want you to ask yourself a few questions.
What does your future hold with this guy?
Is this guy a good influence on your child?
Do you want to spend the rest of your life babysitting an adult?
If he asked you to marry him tomorrow, would you?
What are you getting from the relationship besides a live in housekeeper?
I want you to THINK long and hard about these questions. He's a boyfriend
, not a husband... Count yourself lucky, you will save a ton on attorney fee's if you every decide to send him packing.
I wish you the best!
Ro
^^^^^^^ Kay? Are you really surprised?? ^^^^^^^^
Alcoholics lie... This is what they do....
I want you to ask yourself a few questions.
What does your future hold with this guy?
Is this guy a good influence on your child?
Do you want to spend the rest of your life babysitting an adult?
If he asked you to marry him tomorrow, would you?
What are you getting from the relationship besides a live in housekeeper?
I want you to THINK long and hard about these questions. He's a boyfriend
, not a husband... Count yourself lucky, you will save a ton on attorney fee's if you every decide to send him packing.
I wish you the best!
Ro
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 123
Couch commitments
Originally Posted by dandylion 
I think it will be a good thing that he moves into his own apartment.....underlining what Hawkeye just said on the subject of the effect it is having in your home.....
These kinds of relationships are to enrich your life.....not drain you....and, most certainly---not have an adverse effect on your child.....
It is about thriving.....not just existing..
It sounded like you did better with distance from him...and working in alanon, etc......that should be some kind of message...shouldn't it?
If he is ever to get into genuine, long lasting recovery....he will have to do it on his own with his own h ard work...
lol....what in the world are "couch commitments"?
dandylion.
These kinds of relationships are to enrich your life.....not drain you....and, most certainly---not have an adverse effect on your child.....
It is about thriving.....not just existing..
It sounded like you did better with distance from him...and working in alanon, etc......that should be some kind of message...shouldn't it?
If he is ever to get into genuine, long lasting recovery....he will have to do it on his own with his own h ard work...
lol....what in the world are "couch commitments"?
dandylion.
Maybe it's just a Los Angeles thing but couch commitments are when a newcomer makes a commitment to stay on a fellow AA members couch so they won't drink usually for a short period of time, until they get into a sober living, treatment or whatever there next goal to stay sober is.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
I personally would not want an active addict around my child and in charge of him
no matter how well he behaves.
"Tense" translates as stress to children. So does your anger.
Rage is terrifying to children. I grew up with it and it damaged me greatly.
I suggest you keep your boundary and let him sort out his recovery on his own.
You can't fix it anyway--but you can provide a safe, stable, and peaceful
place for your child and yourself to grow. . .
no matter how well he behaves.
"Tense" translates as stress to children. So does your anger.
Rage is terrifying to children. I grew up with it and it damaged me greatly.
I suggest you keep your boundary and let him sort out his recovery on his own.
You can't fix it anyway--but you can provide a safe, stable, and peaceful
place for your child and yourself to grow. . .
It makes sense to no one but loving him has been the most comforting and healing experience I've had as an adult. I couldn't love my mom when she was drinking.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
I personally would not want an active addict around my child and in charge of him
no matter how well he behaves.
"Tense" translates as stress to children. So does your anger.
Rage is terrifying to children. I grew up with it and it damaged me greatly.
I suggest you keep your boundary and let him sort out his recovery on his own.
You can't fix it anyway--but you can provide a safe, stable, and peaceful
place for your child and yourself to grow. . .
no matter how well he behaves.
"Tense" translates as stress to children. So does your anger.
Rage is terrifying to children. I grew up with it and it damaged me greatly.
I suggest you keep your boundary and let him sort out his recovery on his own.
You can't fix it anyway--but you can provide a safe, stable, and peaceful
place for your child and yourself to grow. . .
Originally Posted by Lilro
Now the trust is broken and the honesty which was our saving grace in this disease, is compromised. I can't stand the checking, looking, jailer behavior I feel necessary after the change in honesty.
^^^^^^^ Kay? Are you really surprised?? ^^^^^^^^
Alcoholics lie... This is what they do....
I want you to ask yourself a few questions.
What does your future hold with this guy?
Is this guy a good influence on your child?
Do you want to spend the rest of your life babysitting an adult?
If he asked you to marry him tomorrow, would you?
What are you getting from the relationship besides a live in housekeeper?
I want you to THINK long and hard about these questions. He's a boyfriend
, not a husband... Count yourself lucky, you will save a ton on attorney fee's if you every decide to send him packing.
I wish you the best!
Ro
^^^^^^^ Kay? Are you really surprised?? ^^^^^^^^
Alcoholics lie... This is what they do....
I want you to ask yourself a few questions.
What does your future hold with this guy?
Is this guy a good influence on your child?
Do you want to spend the rest of your life babysitting an adult?
If he asked you to marry him tomorrow, would you?
What are you getting from the relationship besides a live in housekeeper?
I want you to THINK long and hard about these questions. He's a boyfriend
, not a husband... Count yourself lucky, you will save a ton on attorney fee's if you every decide to send him packing.
I wish you the best!
Ro
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
kayleezen......there are others who DO understand.....
Your statement about loving him is the most comforting experience that you have had as a adult......it almost exactly what is p oi nted to in the book...."The saber-tooth Tiger"......it is a book, written by a therapist who works with women who stay in relationships that they acknowledge is not
good" for them.....It is explained, beautifully and thoroughly.....you might want to give it a read.....(you can get it o n Amazon).
I did not realize that you were an Adult Child of Alcoholic.......
We also have a forum for this, here, on SR........
(just so you know)......
dandylion
Your statement about loving him is the most comforting experience that you have had as a adult......it almost exactly what is p oi nted to in the book...."The saber-tooth Tiger"......it is a book, written by a therapist who works with women who stay in relationships that they acknowledge is not
good" for them.....It is explained, beautifully and thoroughly.....you might want to give it a read.....(you can get it o n Amazon).
I did not realize that you were an Adult Child of Alcoholic.......
We also have a forum for this, here, on SR........
(just so you know)......
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 715
Good Morning Kay,
OMGoodness, I hope you do not think I was judging you by my response... I would never... Who am I to judge? We are all here for the same reason. I just wanted you to honestly ask yourself some questions in hopes that maybe something would click. It's a lot easier sometimes to see things from the outside than when we are in the thick of it. I wish you well and hope that you will continue to update us. No judgement here.... Hugs to you!
Ro
OMGoodness, I hope you do not think I was judging you by my response... I would never... Who am I to judge? We are all here for the same reason. I just wanted you to honestly ask yourself some questions in hopes that maybe something would click. It's a lot easier sometimes to see things from the outside than when we are in the thick of it. I wish you well and hope that you will continue to update us. No judgement here.... Hugs to you!
Ro
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by kayleezen
I don't expect anyone to understand but just judge because that's what people do to sick alcoholics and it only perpetuates the dissase. I have found recovering alcoholics are usually the worst offenders
Believe me, I have all the compassion in the world for suffering alcoholics. But until there is a true commitment to sobriety, and some solid recovery work, it is virtually impossible for them to see what they are doing to themselves and others.
That said, it's the responsibility of those affected by the alcoholic's behavior to protect themselves from that behavior. Drawing the boundary at enough distance so you don't have to be an "enforcer" on a constant basis is usually a lot more effective than responding with a "consequence" on each occasion something happens, which comes a little too close to operant conditioning, in my view.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 715
"Drawing the boundary at enough distance so you don't have to be an "enforcer" on a constant basis is usually a lot more effective than responding with a "consequence" on each occasion something happens, which comes a little too close to operant conditioning, in my view."
Lexie is spot on, as usual. I wish I would have been so wise as to putting up the boundry instead of the consequence from the get go.... It would have saved me quite a few months of mental anguish.
Lexie is spot on, as usual. I wish I would have been so wise as to putting up the boundry instead of the consequence from the get go.... It would have saved me quite a few months of mental anguish.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
It's interesting that you frame the satisfaction you get from caring about him in contrast to your relationship with your alcoholic mother. I've found that one of the things that attracts me to addicts is that it all feels familiar, because I grew up with two alcoholic parents. The self-sacrifice, the chaos--feels like home! I actually get an emotional high off of it. But my childhood was dysfunctional, and I'm trying to learn new, healthier patterns that don't involve rescuing people at my own expense or living with unacceptable behavior.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Originally Posted by jjj111
It's interesting that you frame the satisfaction you get from caring about him in contrast to your relationship with your alcoholic mother. I've found that one of the things that attracts me to addicts is that it all feels familiar, because I grew up with two alcoholic parents. The self-sacrifice, the chaos--feels like home! I actually get an emotional high off of it. But my childhood was dysfunctional, and I'm trying to learn new, healthier patterns that don't involve rescuing people at my own expense or living with unacceptable behavior.
All I really achieved, besides a lot of heartache, was to subject my own children to those unhealthy behaviors that shaped my own warped views of love and relationships from childhood on.
There are healthy ways to heal those wounds, and they don't involve rescuing an unwilling adult from their own choices. I have found great satisfaction in Alanon service work and public outreach. I get to channel those "rescuing" impulses into helping people who have actually requested my help, or at least shown an interest in Alanon recovery. I am now showing my children that love starts with me taking care of myself, not becoming a martyr to another person's self-destruction.
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Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it makes sense to no one but loving him has been the most comforting and healing experience I've had as an adult. I couldn't love my mom when she was drinking.
but hon, he is NOT your mom. this is not your DO OVER. sure you give him a place to stay and MOST of the time he "behaves" - until he doesn't. does he not have a job? is there some reason why a full grown adult is NOT working and supporting themselves? while i know you think you are doing a loving thing here......your actions actually enable him to keep drinking..........
I don't expect anyone to understand but just judge because that's what people do to sick alcoholics and it only perpetuates the dissase. I have found recovering alcoholics are usually the worst offenders
note that you mention RECOVERING alcoholics...meaning those who have FOUND a solution. how do you think they got there????
but hon, he is NOT your mom. this is not your DO OVER. sure you give him a place to stay and MOST of the time he "behaves" - until he doesn't. does he not have a job? is there some reason why a full grown adult is NOT working and supporting themselves? while i know you think you are doing a loving thing here......your actions actually enable him to keep drinking..........
I don't expect anyone to understand but just judge because that's what people do to sick alcoholics and it only perpetuates the dissase. I have found recovering alcoholics are usually the worst offenders
note that you mention RECOVERING alcoholics...meaning those who have FOUND a solution. how do you think they got there????
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