First holiday with new situation
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First holiday with new situation
So my RAH left me a couple of weeks ago and my son is still not speaking to ME. It's been almost 2 months since we told him that his father is moving out and he's not speaking to me. Go figure. Anyway, for Thanksgiving both of my kids (19 and 22) are flying from their homes to be with my RAH and his family in NJ on Wednesday night and then flying to be with my and my brother's family on Thursday through the weekend.
It all seemed fine and good until the reality of the holidays is starting to settle in. My sister in law called this morning that her son, the same age as mine, just got home from college and it's so nice for everyone to be together. And on and on about how great he is doing in school and how the family is together blah blah blah.
It was a bit insensitive, but she's listened to me go on and on for the last few months about my situation, so I didn't want to stop her and rain on her parade. I wanted to be happy for her and pretended my best. She must've heard it in my voice, because she said "you sound sad, oh that was not nice of me to say how great things are here."
Anyway, after I hung up with her I got very sad and sat down and cried. Not only are my kids not coming home for Thanksgiving, but they don't like to ever be in the house. I think it reminds them of yelling and screaming (mostly by me) and no good warm fuzzy memories. So I have kids that don't want to come home and cuddle and watch movies, they aren't coming home for the holiday, my son still isn't even speaking to me and then we have Christmas right around the corner and I have to do this all over again. Except they are already telling me they have plans and won't be home in December either.
I feel like I don't deserve this. I know I contributed to the mess they grew up with and played a part in the whole alcoholism dysfunctional family scenario, but I didn't ask for this. I didn't ask to be married to an alcoholic and not know it for 25 years. I didn't ask him to leave. I didn't ask for any of this. Ok, that is sounding a bit victim-y, but I think I feel a bit of that right now.
I want to be a family and home and cooking and laughing and that is not the case. We will never be a family again the way it was. I just don't know how to make peace with this.
I feel like my only option is to trust in my HP that he has a plan and I hand it over to him. But it still makes my heart ache every time I think of the whole situation. And my husband is feeling no pain. He is so happy that he's seeing the kids and he's with his family and he has his bachelor pad. He says he's never been happier. I feel like I just keep getting kicked in the gut.
Last night there were so many people at Alanon that are ACOA and I think I wonder if this will be my kids some day. Right now they don't see that they are because nobody ever really saw him drink. He was extremely high functioning. All they saw was me being a lunatic. I feel like I really got the short straw here. I really want to turn this around and be positive, but at the moment I'm not seeing the positive side to this whole thing.
It all seemed fine and good until the reality of the holidays is starting to settle in. My sister in law called this morning that her son, the same age as mine, just got home from college and it's so nice for everyone to be together. And on and on about how great he is doing in school and how the family is together blah blah blah.
It was a bit insensitive, but she's listened to me go on and on for the last few months about my situation, so I didn't want to stop her and rain on her parade. I wanted to be happy for her and pretended my best. She must've heard it in my voice, because she said "you sound sad, oh that was not nice of me to say how great things are here."
Anyway, after I hung up with her I got very sad and sat down and cried. Not only are my kids not coming home for Thanksgiving, but they don't like to ever be in the house. I think it reminds them of yelling and screaming (mostly by me) and no good warm fuzzy memories. So I have kids that don't want to come home and cuddle and watch movies, they aren't coming home for the holiday, my son still isn't even speaking to me and then we have Christmas right around the corner and I have to do this all over again. Except they are already telling me they have plans and won't be home in December either.
I feel like I don't deserve this. I know I contributed to the mess they grew up with and played a part in the whole alcoholism dysfunctional family scenario, but I didn't ask for this. I didn't ask to be married to an alcoholic and not know it for 25 years. I didn't ask him to leave. I didn't ask for any of this. Ok, that is sounding a bit victim-y, but I think I feel a bit of that right now.
I want to be a family and home and cooking and laughing and that is not the case. We will never be a family again the way it was. I just don't know how to make peace with this.
I feel like my only option is to trust in my HP that he has a plan and I hand it over to him. But it still makes my heart ache every time I think of the whole situation. And my husband is feeling no pain. He is so happy that he's seeing the kids and he's with his family and he has his bachelor pad. He says he's never been happier. I feel like I just keep getting kicked in the gut.
Last night there were so many people at Alanon that are ACOA and I think I wonder if this will be my kids some day. Right now they don't see that they are because nobody ever really saw him drink. He was extremely high functioning. All they saw was me being a lunatic. I feel like I really got the short straw here. I really want to turn this around and be positive, but at the moment I'm not seeing the positive side to this whole thing.
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You did get the short straw. It isn't fair. You do not have to turn this around right now. This is not a knot that is going to get untangled overnight. I'm an ACoA and I'm still untangling it.
You cannot control any part of this except what you do and say moving forward. Your kids are young adults and they are going to have extremely complicated responses to this, and I promise you their responses will evolve about a million times over the coming years.
The fact is they probably will not work to address this until it begins to affect them in an immediate, unavoidable way. For me, it was the implosion of my first marriage. I never saw my mom drink. I thought it didn't affect me. I did not understand it until I could no longer deny that in all of my relationships that failed, I was the common denominator, and if I ever wanted a healthy relationship, I had to figure it out. It no longer had anything to do with my parents.
I can't tell you when this will feel better, or if/when they will come back to you. I can suggest that the best thing you can do is let them know you love them and care, but go about Getting Healthy Yourself. It's going to take time. Worrying about what your kids think about everything or constantly rehashing what you did or didn't do wrong without learning anything from it will not help you.
It's not fair. And it never will have been. But you can accept your role in what happened and the choices you made and move forward. In doing so, you will be an undeniable model of taking care of yourself. Or you can try to change the past, change other people.
For now, you ARE seeing your kids this holiday. You have an opportunity here to live in the moment of being with them. Instead of focusing on everything that has gone, talk to them about THEM. Their friends, their classes, their hobbies, what they want to do and be. And if they won't engage, then just give them the space they need. It's just one holiday, not EVERY holiday. You don't have to overflow with positivity and gratitude if you are not feeling it, but being present and mindful and willing to connect might begin to make a difference.
You cannot control any part of this except what you do and say moving forward. Your kids are young adults and they are going to have extremely complicated responses to this, and I promise you their responses will evolve about a million times over the coming years.
The fact is they probably will not work to address this until it begins to affect them in an immediate, unavoidable way. For me, it was the implosion of my first marriage. I never saw my mom drink. I thought it didn't affect me. I did not understand it until I could no longer deny that in all of my relationships that failed, I was the common denominator, and if I ever wanted a healthy relationship, I had to figure it out. It no longer had anything to do with my parents.
I can't tell you when this will feel better, or if/when they will come back to you. I can suggest that the best thing you can do is let them know you love them and care, but go about Getting Healthy Yourself. It's going to take time. Worrying about what your kids think about everything or constantly rehashing what you did or didn't do wrong without learning anything from it will not help you.
It's not fair. And it never will have been. But you can accept your role in what happened and the choices you made and move forward. In doing so, you will be an undeniable model of taking care of yourself. Or you can try to change the past, change other people.
For now, you ARE seeing your kids this holiday. You have an opportunity here to live in the moment of being with them. Instead of focusing on everything that has gone, talk to them about THEM. Their friends, their classes, their hobbies, what they want to do and be. And if they won't engage, then just give them the space they need. It's just one holiday, not EVERY holiday. You don't have to overflow with positivity and gratitude if you are not feeling it, but being present and mindful and willing to connect might begin to make a difference.
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Hello Amy,
I am sorry you are feeling lonely and cut off from your kids. They do not 'get' why you were the way you were. They may never 'get' it.
I wonder if the biggest thing to focus now on is how you plan to be communicate differently going forward? Much like a recovering A, all we can prove going forward is a willingness to change. I occasionally still get all up in my H's business, and I have to click my teeth and stop the speech train. And then after I take a deep breath, I apologize.
Hugs to you. I think, in time, things will improve.
I am sorry you are feeling lonely and cut off from your kids. They do not 'get' why you were the way you were. They may never 'get' it.
I wonder if the biggest thing to focus now on is how you plan to be communicate differently going forward? Much like a recovering A, all we can prove going forward is a willingness to change. I occasionally still get all up in my H's business, and I have to click my teeth and stop the speech train. And then after I take a deep breath, I apologize.
Hugs to you. I think, in time, things will improve.
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You're right Amy, you're getting the short end of the stick. It's completely unfair. And there's not a dang thing you can do to force it to be any other way & that feels really crappy & frustrating.
Your kids need time to see things for themselves without your influence (especially DS). They need to see it all for themselves, otherwise it's just something that you "tell" them. The problem is that life keeps moving, time keeps passing & it may be a years before they have these AHA moments... if ever. I know it hurts & it's okay to be upset about all of it. What used to be is in the past & not coming back & that's hard. This year is going to be SO HARD. (((hugs)))
I think when the kids are older in these situations it can be almost more difficult than if they were younger - they've been living in the dysfunction for a lot longer, have gone through many changes/stages of the progression (on both sides the addict & the codie) & they've formed their own opinions & reactions to everything going on around them. And when they're already started on their "own" lives - college, careers, etc, this situation isn't their priority any longer.
I can tell you that as an ACoA, the one thing I wanted at age 18 more than anything in the entire world was just to be left alone by my FOO. I didn't care to spend the time thinking about all of that - I wanted to move forward. I was NOT interested in digging into my issues - in fact I didn't even see them as issues until many, many years later when they continued to morph into unhealthy habits. (I was still calling them "character strengths".)
Have you given any thought to starting new traditions this year? Doing something different by choice instead of by default?
Your kids need time to see things for themselves without your influence (especially DS). They need to see it all for themselves, otherwise it's just something that you "tell" them. The problem is that life keeps moving, time keeps passing & it may be a years before they have these AHA moments... if ever. I know it hurts & it's okay to be upset about all of it. What used to be is in the past & not coming back & that's hard. This year is going to be SO HARD. (((hugs)))
I think when the kids are older in these situations it can be almost more difficult than if they were younger - they've been living in the dysfunction for a lot longer, have gone through many changes/stages of the progression (on both sides the addict & the codie) & they've formed their own opinions & reactions to everything going on around them. And when they're already started on their "own" lives - college, careers, etc, this situation isn't their priority any longer.
I can tell you that as an ACoA, the one thing I wanted at age 18 more than anything in the entire world was just to be left alone by my FOO. I didn't care to spend the time thinking about all of that - I wanted to move forward. I was NOT interested in digging into my issues - in fact I didn't even see them as issues until many, many years later when they continued to morph into unhealthy habits. (I was still calling them "character strengths".)
Have you given any thought to starting new traditions this year? Doing something different by choice instead of by default?
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FindingAmy......I am sorry that you are hurting, this year. The holidays can be especially tough.....because we have so many expectations and Norman Rockwell images in our mind. We get to feeling that "if it ain't Norman Rockwell Good....all is lost and it ain't no good At All.
I think that SparkleKitty said it all.....I really agree with her p ost, and I can't add much more to that.
I will say, though, that I suggest that you rise to this, admittedly, difficult challenge for youself.....and try to find some spots of happiness during this Thanksgiving.
How about a "thankful list"? Maybe, begin with....
1. I will get to see my kids.....they are healthy. (some people will not even get to see their kids).
2. I am no longer trapped in a marriage with an alcoholic....I am on my way to a new life with happy times and adventures to come in the future......
Maybe this can be a year where you start volunteering with an organization that serves the less fortunate. You would be surprised how this can take your mind away from your own sadness....
Maybe, also, you can let the family that y ou do see....begin to see a more joyful, pleasant and positive side of you.....rather than the secreaming memmie that they may have implanted in their minds......(I am going by your description...lol...)
I know that you want it all 'fixed", right away (human nature), but I think that you will just have to accept that it will be a process, and you just to have faith that it won't always be this way.....
dandylion
I think that SparkleKitty said it all.....I really agree with her p ost, and I can't add much more to that.
I will say, though, that I suggest that you rise to this, admittedly, difficult challenge for youself.....and try to find some spots of happiness during this Thanksgiving.
How about a "thankful list"? Maybe, begin with....
1. I will get to see my kids.....they are healthy. (some people will not even get to see their kids).
2. I am no longer trapped in a marriage with an alcoholic....I am on my way to a new life with happy times and adventures to come in the future......
Maybe this can be a year where you start volunteering with an organization that serves the less fortunate. You would be surprised how this can take your mind away from your own sadness....
Maybe, also, you can let the family that y ou do see....begin to see a more joyful, pleasant and positive side of you.....rather than the secreaming memmie that they may have implanted in their minds......(I am going by your description...lol...)
I know that you want it all 'fixed", right away (human nature), but I think that you will just have to accept that it will be a process, and you just to have faith that it won't always be this way.....
dandylion
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Originally Posted by FireSprite 
I can tell you that as an ACoA, the one thing I wanted at age 18 more than anything in the entire world was just to be left alone by my FOO. I didn't care to spend the time thinking about all of that - I wanted to move forward. I was NOT interested in digging into my issues - in fact I didn't even see them as issues until many, many years later when they continued to morph into unhealthy habits. (I was still calling them "character strengths".)
Talk about famous last words.This isn't your fault. Yes you had a part in it, but no one person bears total responsibility here. And even though it feels like trying to run in quicksand right now, what you're doing to heal yourself is actually the best way to help everyone who was impacted by the family dysfunction. Your personal recovery will eventually send ripples of healing change through everyone's pond. My own recovery has been a tremendous help to my codie mom, lol.
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it sounds like a lot of the resistance is to the physical structure of the HOME - it represents a lot of bad juju and is a place these young adult men choose not to be. it doesn't sound like they plan to hang out at the dad's pad either. they are going to NJ to spend time with HIS family, and then joining you with YOUR family.
that sounds pretty awesome to me! the boys don't have to choose one event over the other......they can enjoy both. it is a bit much to expect that with all that has transpired in this past year, that you can recreate a Norman Rockwell portrait in your living room for THIS holiday.
so, it's time for new traditions and new hopes.
that sounds pretty awesome to me! the boys don't have to choose one event over the other......they can enjoy both. it is a bit much to expect that with all that has transpired in this past year, that you can recreate a Norman Rockwell portrait in your living room for THIS holiday.
so, it's time for new traditions and new hopes.
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Well, that was all a bit depressing and inspiring and hopeful at the same time, if that's possible. I do have to accept that this is the situation and we are not going back to the way it was, nor do I want to. It is that Norman Rockwell painting I have in my mind, as though I once had it and lost it. Truth is we never had it, so I'm pining for something that never existed in the first place. Which I realized the other day was exactly what I did in my marriage. Once it was over I was pining for something that never existed. He was never present, or emotionally there, or communicative or any of the things my mind conjured up that he was. I didn't lose any of that when he left. I think I wanted it so bad to be a certain way and it never was.
For all of you ACOA I am most intrigued by your input on all of this from your viewpoint. It makes me a bit sad that for all of those years I thought I was doing my kids a favor by staying in the marriage, meanwhile it was doing more and more damage. I had no idea he was an alcoholic. I get the part of you that thought it didn't affect you because you didn't see him drinking. What do you think would've been helpful to you at that time from the non alcoholic parent?
I am trying not to do the codependent thing, and control their journey, but as a mother, if i can give any words of support or advice i'd like to do that rather than have them travel this road with no knowledge at all. It's a rough road for sure. Which I know they have to travel and ultimately have to travel it alone, but is there anything at all i can say or do, besides just letting them know I'm here and I love them and show them my own healing (which is still a work in progress).
Like you speak about the unhealthy habits and imploding marriage. I know I can't stop any of that from happening. I know I can't control their path. But is there any words I can say that might help? So maybe they don't fall into those roles or that path? Or is it just going to have to happen that way? Maybe one day they will go to Alanon, but not until they realize they were affected by this. Especially my son who my husband paid to not tell me he was drinking. My son really bears the brunt of alot of this.
I know Let Go and Let God. I do, I really do. I just feel like looking back to when you were 20, is there anything you say "if someone had told me x, things might've been better".
For all of you ACOA I am most intrigued by your input on all of this from your viewpoint. It makes me a bit sad that for all of those years I thought I was doing my kids a favor by staying in the marriage, meanwhile it was doing more and more damage. I had no idea he was an alcoholic. I get the part of you that thought it didn't affect you because you didn't see him drinking. What do you think would've been helpful to you at that time from the non alcoholic parent?
I am trying not to do the codependent thing, and control their journey, but as a mother, if i can give any words of support or advice i'd like to do that rather than have them travel this road with no knowledge at all. It's a rough road for sure. Which I know they have to travel and ultimately have to travel it alone, but is there anything at all i can say or do, besides just letting them know I'm here and I love them and show them my own healing (which is still a work in progress).
Like you speak about the unhealthy habits and imploding marriage. I know I can't stop any of that from happening. I know I can't control their path. But is there any words I can say that might help? So maybe they don't fall into those roles or that path? Or is it just going to have to happen that way? Maybe one day they will go to Alanon, but not until they realize they were affected by this. Especially my son who my husband paid to not tell me he was drinking. My son really bears the brunt of alot of this.
I know Let Go and Let God. I do, I really do. I just feel like looking back to when you were 20, is there anything you say "if someone had told me x, things might've been better".
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I think you can acknowledge their feelings--tell them that you were trying to protect them but maybe you handled it the wrong way, but that you honestly tried to do what was best for them. Tell them you love them and understand it will take you all a while to recover from everything that went on.
Other than that, don't force anything. It might take a very long time for them to sort out a lot of conflicting feelings, but they will have to do that in their own way. The best thing you can do for them at this point, probably, is to model what recovery looks like.
Other than that, don't force anything. It might take a very long time for them to sort out a lot of conflicting feelings, but they will have to do that in their own way. The best thing you can do for them at this point, probably, is to model what recovery looks like.
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Findingamy.....I just did a quick google search......
There is a plethora of internet sites for those mothers who are facing an "empty nest"........(who knew?)...
Maybe, you could check them out........
You are not the only mother who is feeling this way.....and, you do NOT have to go it completely alone.
Remember...that your whole future ....and, that of your children does not have to be all black...gloom and doom.....
Try not to think all black and white.....
I am reminded of Dr; Phil's wife....who has been very open about her father's alcoholism *as has Dr. Phil ....about his own father.....
Robins said that she never saw her father drinking, either......
dandylion
***Thanksgiving Day is not the time to bring up these kinds of subjects.....unless you want to be the Grinch that Stole
Thanksgiving......
There is a time and place for those sorts of conversations......
There is a plethora of internet sites for those mothers who are facing an "empty nest"........(who knew?)...
Maybe, you could check them out........
You are not the only mother who is feeling this way.....and, you do NOT have to go it completely alone.
Remember...that your whole future ....and, that of your children does not have to be all black...gloom and doom.....
Try not to think all black and white.....
I am reminded of Dr; Phil's wife....who has been very open about her father's alcoholism *as has Dr. Phil ....about his own father.....
Robins said that she never saw her father drinking, either......
dandylion
***Thanksgiving Day is not the time to bring up these kinds of subjects.....unless you want to be the Grinch that Stole
Thanksgiving......
There is a time and place for those sorts of conversations......
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Amy
I am not an ACOA but I think both of my parents are ACOAs and my family while overall safe, and in many ways great did not have a lot of room for feelings.
I have my own addiction challenges (food is my self soothing DOC).
The question you pose about what may help.
I am picturing myself at 17-39 (my current age). What I really wished that my family could have provided for me was about having enough room and space to have my emotions....good, bad and indifferent.
That is less about any family member saying anything and more about what you are already doing....digging in and doing your own work around this. This would have given me permission to do mine, and to know that it was okay that I had stuff and it would give me a framework of what recovery work would have looked like. Seeing self-care modeled would have helped me immensely.
I also want to say that as a veteran of therapy what got me INTO therapy and what keeps me going now are two different things. I started because I was unwell/sick and really uncomfortable. I keep going (many years later) to keep my health and sanity and I want to stay resourced and grounded. Recovery itself became the journey for me....not the destination and that meant a lot of exploration and side journeys....not a straight path.
I believe you will find that for yourself and your children will too. Be gentle with you.....having emotions around all this chaos and new information is very hard. I was still in shock at this point out.
I am not an ACOA but I think both of my parents are ACOAs and my family while overall safe, and in many ways great did not have a lot of room for feelings.
I have my own addiction challenges (food is my self soothing DOC).
The question you pose about what may help.
I am picturing myself at 17-39 (my current age). What I really wished that my family could have provided for me was about having enough room and space to have my emotions....good, bad and indifferent.
That is less about any family member saying anything and more about what you are already doing....digging in and doing your own work around this. This would have given me permission to do mine, and to know that it was okay that I had stuff and it would give me a framework of what recovery work would have looked like. Seeing self-care modeled would have helped me immensely.
I also want to say that as a veteran of therapy what got me INTO therapy and what keeps me going now are two different things. I started because I was unwell/sick and really uncomfortable. I keep going (many years later) to keep my health and sanity and I want to stay resourced and grounded. Recovery itself became the journey for me....not the destination and that meant a lot of exploration and side journeys....not a straight path.
I believe you will find that for yourself and your children will too. Be gentle with you.....having emotions around all this chaos and new information is very hard. I was still in shock at this point out.
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I can only tell you what I think would have helped, with a lot of therapy under my belt and twenty years of hindsight as well, but these are things that would have helped while I was in the situation. I can't tell you what would help me now, and I don't want to fill this thread with a bunch of advice that would have been really great when you were all still in the situation that you can never go back and put into action.
As I said before, the best thing you can do right now is focus on YOU getting to the healthiest place you can get. You can't fix anything for them now, and you can't tell them what they aren't ready to hear and you can't make them understand how this is affected them. They aren't there yet.
This is the part where you have to let go. You might have to let them stumble before they realize they've been affected. But if you take care of you, and demonstrate what it looks like when their mom is happy and healthy and independent? I bet they will come back to you on their own.
My father passed after a long decline and my mother even stopped drinking, but neither of them ever recovered from either his codependence or her addiction. I don't have much of a relationship with my mother because she does not demonstrate a willingness to have a meaningful relationship with me. I think maybe she is ashamed or embarrassed or maybe just white-knuckling it so hard she can't let anything else in. Doesn't matter -- I'm okay with that now. I don't think it has to be the same story for you.
Edited to add: Everything LifeRecovery said, times ten.
As I said before, the best thing you can do right now is focus on YOU getting to the healthiest place you can get. You can't fix anything for them now, and you can't tell them what they aren't ready to hear and you can't make them understand how this is affected them. They aren't there yet.
This is the part where you have to let go. You might have to let them stumble before they realize they've been affected. But if you take care of you, and demonstrate what it looks like when their mom is happy and healthy and independent? I bet they will come back to you on their own.
My father passed after a long decline and my mother even stopped drinking, but neither of them ever recovered from either his codependence or her addiction. I don't have much of a relationship with my mother because she does not demonstrate a willingness to have a meaningful relationship with me. I think maybe she is ashamed or embarrassed or maybe just white-knuckling it so hard she can't let anything else in. Doesn't matter -- I'm okay with that now. I don't think it has to be the same story for you.
Edited to add: Everything LifeRecovery said, times ten.
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thank you all. you are all truly amazing and help me so much. thank you for sharing with me. I will do my best. And practice self care and show them what working through recovery looks like without having to talk about it. I'll let my actions speak but let them know I'm there for them. I will make new thanksgiving traditions and just be grateful we are together. it will not be easy, but as I read today, it's not the pain that causes the growth, but our response to it. Lots of growing starting Thursday. Thank you all for the responses.
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Originally Posted by FindingAmy
thank you all. you are all truly amazing and help me so much. thank you for sharing with me. I will do my best. And practice self care and show them what working through recovery looks like without having to talk about it. I'll let my actions speak but let them know I'm there for them. I will make new thanksgiving traditions and just be grateful we are together. it will not be easy, but as I read today, it's not the pain that causes the growth, but our response to it. Lots of growing starting Thursday. Thank you all for the responses.
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