Liveitwell

So....not that I'm considering dating any time soon BUT for my own recovery I would like to know....how do you differentiate between issues and red flags? Issues-we all have issues and baggage. We all bring things to a relationship that will, regardless if how in love you are, impact the relationship. What's the difference between and issue and a red flag? I look back (and I did for years) seeing what I thought were just issues should have been huge waving red flags with my ex....family background, his drinking, anger, no empathy and mom/women control and enabling issues....these just got worse through the years and the last almost two years of our marriage it was all too obvious that these things had just gotten exponentially worse-and not only tore him apart but our marriage and family. I don't expect perfection at all in a mate-but honesty and integrity, yes...and I thought my ex had those qualities-he did at one time. But they went away.
Issues vs red flags....what's the difference?

Thanks for helping me decipher

Liveitwell

He lived with mom when I met him-nothing has changed in over a year since divorce-still living with mommy. His sister was awful to me while we were engaged-tore apart what I held so dear and just stuck her nose where it didn't belong judging everything from the engagement ring I picked out (that was exactly what I wanted) to my bridesmaids dressed I picked to you name it...and continued to my first pregnancy. And true to form, she got intimately involved with our divorce-which of course, was none of her business. It was her brothers battle-not hers. Mom stuff? I won't even go there-too many to list out. Drinking? Yep! Family enabling and blatant denial and a system of victimization? Yep!
I truly thought, like a fool, my husband and I could overcome these-truly thought he would grow up. They were huge red flags that did indeed signal warning for our marriage. I missed them. Just thought they were issues.

fluffyflea

Well I don't know, I suppose Issues are things we can choose or not to live with while Red Flags should be the things that send us running away but don't.

Liveitwell

^^ yes. Very true. Should have run. But I wasn't healthy.

NYCDoglvr

There are a number of things I consider red flags:

1. Has more than two drinks or talks about how much he loves drinking.
2. Never married or having lived with a woman (over 40)
3. Talks about how much he hates ex-wife or monologues on how terrible his family or childhood is
4. Is separated (may never leave spouse)
5. Doesn't ask me any questions
6. Doesn't volunteer his phone number

I look for dishonesty, self-involvement, and alcohol/gambling/over spending

redatlanta

Any person who still lives with their parents is the biggest red flag EVER

Things that you see toward the early stages that you aren't comfortable with are generally red flags. Issues come later, like when you realize they throw their clothes in a pile on the floor and it bugs you, or they hum when they drive, or they hog the TV.

dandylion

fourourgirls....I predict that after you have worked through all the steps of alanon....you will be able to size up another person much better...because you will have so much more awareness.
If you work through your family of origin issues that you have carried....which may have clouded your judgements, previously......you will have a much more clear vision of what makes you tick...and what you really want/need in a healthy relationship......

We learn from our "mistakes" and we grow wiser by our experiences....if we have an open mind and do the work.......

dandylion

Liveitwell

Dandy-very true. As I did work through my FOO issues my blinders came off-while in my marriage...and I couldn't put them back on. I saw everything clearly abd was aware and not scared to call a thing a thing. And I wasn't afraid to say, I'm absolutely not okay with this....it's disturbing and not okay. One of my FOO issues-fear for standing up for myself and fear of hurting the other persons feelings or angering them-at my expense. I've been over those for quite some time
Red-yep...biggest red flag I overlooked....and it's still exactly the same! RUN! A boy lives with momma-a man lives on his own and deals with life as it comes. It's pretty crystal now.
I do know what I want and don't wabt-just don't want to ever not run from a red flag-but after how messed up this was, I think I'll probably head for the hills at the first sign of a red flag!!
Thank you

Wisconsin

In retrospect, when my STBXAH and I reconnected and started dating, there were plenty of red flags even though he was sober and working a recovery program. The single biggest one was his total unwillingness to accept any responsibility at all for the demise of his prior relationship. It's one thing to have some residual bad feelings, and be angry, I suppose. But he literally said "she was the most selfish person in the world, and if it weren't for how awful she was, our relationship would have been great."

Suffice it to say, he was actively drinking during most, if not all, of that relationship. If he said half the things to her that he said to me...

Anyway...I look for a sense of personal responsibility these days. In friends, in co-workers, and in the gentleman I have been hanging out with on our mutually free Tuesdays. I will not accept new friends into my life who don't demonstrate that sense of personal responsibility. DEMONSTRATE it, not just talk about it. It's harder with co-workers, because you obviously can't pick and choose them, but I regulate my interactions with toxic co-workers very closely these days.

DesertEyes

Red flags are issues that I think she will get over if she only listened to me and did things my way.

Which means that I need to get back into my own recovery, then the definition changes to:

Red flags are issues that I hope she gets over some day, at which point I might be interested in a relationship with her.

Issues are red flags I haven't yet recognized.

Healthy people don't have issues. They have _strengths_ in those areas where they used to have issues.

Mike

healthyagain

And I would add to the list of red flags, the connection that he has with his mom is very important. Is it a loving, healthy, mature relationship? Is it, "my mom this, my mom that?" Ever called his mom a b-word (I find this a huge red flag.)? Is his childhood a sob story? Still living with his parents and in his 30s? Girlfriend/wife history? Is he playing a victim when it comes to past relationships? Is he generally playing a victim about anything? Is his whole life a series of unfortunate events?

Oh, I could go on and on and on.

Basically for me a red flag is when the brain sends a clear mayday distress signal. When you think about it, any "issue" is a potential red flag.

suki44883

Issues can be red flags sometimes. What might be an issue to you might not be an issue to someone else. But, if it causes you to pause and second guess yourself, it might as well be a red flag for you.

Liveitwell

Healthy again-every.damn.word! Every one. Yes!! No, quite the opposite-he called his mom his queen and that she walked on water and was the most beautiful woman ever, wanted to sleep in her bed (bc it was the most comfortable bed ever), etc. Geez. Told me his mom was his best friend and let him do whatever he wabted-I guess that equates to love with him. His mom for her part just thought her son hung the moon-and confided in him, etc. Woyld talk about how fun a mother she was and how all of my exs friends loved her bc she threw great parties (I.e. Let the high school kids get drunk at her house while her alcoholic husband got toasted by himself), would rub his head while they sat on the couch together, etc. Basucalky treated him like the husband she didn't have. Wildly inappropriate. Yep. Yes-his life was a series of things that went wrong-like his dad-a dark cloud that followed him-of course had nothing to do with him! He actually did take some responsibility for the breakup with his ex-told me that one of her students had died (his ex was a teacher) and that he told her to just get over it. Yummy! Wonder why she left?! Such was our marriage-all the time-I was to get over his abuse, neglect, rage, etc or get called a pu$$y. He also shared that he bored her a lot and bc she was a teacher and had to go to bed early (she lived with her mom-ahhhhhh) that he would tell her goodnight and then leave her at home to go to the bar! Yummy, again! Writing it out makes me kind of want to vomit. At myself.
I couldn't stand my ex biting his nails, throwing his clothes everywhere, etc-you know, normal annoyances. Those things didn't abuse me and manipulate and so on and so on. Those were not the reasons I divirced him. The red flags were!

jjj111

Another one I would add: moving too fast. Different people have different ideas about just how fast is too fast, but for me someone who tells you they love you or wants to move in within the first couple months is too fast. And someone who comes on strong right away, wanting to see you daily. All signs that the person is addicted to the thrill of falling in love and doesn't have the maturity to take big decisions slowly.

LexieCat

Red flags, like red lights, are things you tend to notice looking in the rear-view mirror.

I know for myself, most of my mistakes involved moving too fast in a relationship. Moving in together too fast, committing myself, my finances, my home too fast. Almost like I had to do it quick before I noticed something wrong because it felt so darned GOOD at the time, and if I waited I might see something that didn't fit how I wanted things to be.

One of our admin staff at work recently messaged me to confirm that I don't have any dependents who I may at some point want to cover under our office's health plan. My response: "Right, my kids have aged out (27 and 29) and if I ever consider getting married again, send someone over to talk me out of it."

Seriously, though, if I EVER dip my toe or any other part of my anatomy into a relationship again, I'm not moving in with anyone until we've had several fights and he's done everything conceivable to annoy me.

jjj111

BTW, I read a book a while back called "How to spot a dangerous man before you get involved" by Sandra Brown that was super helpful--including a discussion of red flags.

TimeForMe

Fourourgirls...thank you. You have posed the question that I have been formulating for the past few weeks, and the responses have been what I knew and needed to hear from objective parties. Oh boy. I've got a lot of work to do.

I wish you could know what a help you have been to me today. Thank you.

Liveitwell

JJJ-I've read many a book on those topics-why does he do that, etc-if I had that book 11 years ago I could have checked every box for my ex. That is sad but true. I unfortunately didn't see his mask come off until after we were married-which is exactly why I got to witness the real him-the good and the very very disturbed and dangerous and ugly. The red flags were there-and I know why I didn't run-my issues!

Lilro

For,
As the mother of a son (16 year old..my only child ) I can tell you that he also walks on water..lol.. I think all mothers of sons feel that way! The difference is, if he EVER acted in a disrespectful way towards a girl/ woman I would smack him into next Sunday and he knows it.
Red flags?? Yikes !! I have a funny feeling that we would both see them waving from a mile away at this point. It's funny, when I think about my relationship with my exabf there were plenty of red flags. There were plenty of times that I felt there was something "off". I couldn't put my finger on it, I just felt it. I wonder to myself now why i just ignored those things that just didn't feel right. I guess I was having too much fun at the time. He was the first guy that I went out with after my divorce. I took a two year breather between him and my ex husband. I thought I was ready for a relationship. I thought I knew what I did and didn't want in a partner after I left my ex husband. The signs were there, I just wasn't paying attention or I didn't care. I don't know. Ends up he was my ex husband in a different package, Ya know? God help the next guy that meets up with me trying to pull those same shenanigans!! ( I've got my Kung foo stance ready!)
I must say though... I'm grateful. Grateful for the experience. I know that I will NEVER again be fooled by a fool. I have another chance to meet a great partner, someone I can spend the rest of my life with who will treat me in the manner of which I deserve. Next time I'm going in with ears and eyes wide open.

Lilro

Meanwhile, Vicki is on TV talking to Andy Cohen about Brooks!!! Talk about red flags....ugh!!!