Is a pension amount considered alimony?

Old 11-11-2015, 05:14 AM
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Red, you're right, and everyone else that responded is right. I do know what I put down was confusing. I sent him a check today for an overpayment of alimony $76.52 for the month of Feb. I am calling my attorney today to see how long I should wait to file for a motion for contempt of court, and also to verify that my portion of his entitlement is just that. That it is my entitlement, and I would not have to refund any excess over the alimony payment.

He was "slack" and "arrogant" with getting the documentation in to divide my pension. That was not my fault. I just can't deal with this person. I was so willing to just send him a check to get rid of him, but he kept insisting I got 2 retroactive checks, and not one. If he wasn't making up numbers I would have let it all go.

They just don't ever leave.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:33 AM
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I would have gotten the opinion from the lawyer before putting ANYTHING in the mail--any time you make a payment that is a form of admission that you owe a certain amount, and better to be sure before you do it. That said, it isn't a huge amount so I don't think you've shot yourself in the foot, but ignore any further emails from him on this issue.

In the future, don't debate it with him. It's easy for an abuser to get one tangled up in knots. Your position needs to be, "I'm following the order." PERIOD. Don't listen to his arguments and you won't be doubting yourself. Listen to the EXPERT that you HIRED.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:56 AM
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I did definitely owe that money. The pension satisfied the alimony for Feb, and the $76. 52 was taken out of his pay check when he was working. This was the only amount that I would agree to for now.

I did email my attorney today. Waiting to hear back from her.

I'm also ignoring any emails from now on. I did tell him that I contacted my attorney and that he should hear from her shortly. It just did get really crazy with him verbally abusing me again.

I was willing to do things to his benefit, or to what I should have received, but he just wanted to keep adding in things that I never received.

I was on the phone yesterday with OPM for over an hour, well you have to hold on for 50- 55 mins, before anyone answers, just to verify my reality. (lol)
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:02 AM
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The more I think about it, yes, I sent him the $76.52. It was more to say that yes I was overpaid that month, so I am returning this to you, and we will see how the court decides on the other months.

It will come down to if a pension amount that I am entitled to should be offset by what he owes me in alimony, and that I am overpaid the difference between the 2 amounts, and that I should be paying him.
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:10 AM
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One thing I did, when my last ex was whining about how much money he got after we sold our winery property, was to have my lawyer send him a letter directing him to contact her directly about any future questions or concerns he had about the division of proceeds from the sale, and NOT to contact me.

Of course, it didn't have the force of a court order, but he still followed instructions. I didn't get any more emails or phone calls about it. He sent one more letter to her asking for more money, and I actually drafted the response I told her to send, which was that I was responsible for more taxes than we estimated and actually, he owed ME $3,000, but I was willing to forego that UNLESS he persisted in his demands for more money, in which case we would be seeking that $3,000.

Never heard another peep out of him.
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:21 AM
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That's funny. The taxes is the thing my ex is pissed off about. When I did the computation I did it "as if" he received my pension timely. Which he didn't. I told him that I would pay him $$$xx amount, but withhold 25% for taxes, because 1099 will reflect this as my income.

Then he wanted an additional $350 for my share of doing the C.O.A.P. (pension division), I told him he will not get a cent from me for that because I had to fight with him for 7 months about that because he was trying to screw me with that, going by his net income and my gross income. I have a copy of an email from pension evaluator to him stating this. I think he dropped this matter, but not sure.

It may cost me more this way, but I do live by principles. I would rather give my money to my lawyer then to him. Then if he loses the contempt of court motion, he may have to pay for his attorney, my attorney, and the money he will owe me.

Why oh why are abusive people so stupid?
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:29 AM
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Then your response should be, to every single email, "Kindly direct your question/concern to my attorney." DO NOT ARGUE IT YOURSELF. If you have the money to pay your lawyer, then by all means let her handle it.

To me, that's one of the BIGGEST advantages of having a lawyer. Let THEM deal with the crazy.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:03 AM
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Lexie, I don't really have money to pay a lawyer. Also I think technically I am right, morally I am wrong. Since the money amount is not that much, less then $1500 either way, I just want him to know, don't f with me anymore. He will most likely have to may my attorney fees. I will probably be awarded money that if he did things the right way, I wouldn't have been entitled to. l would donate that money to an animal shelter.

I gave him the chance to do this amicably with me. I offered him a refund. I don't think court will handle this the same way. I think court will just go by documentation and documentation only and what was received in what month, and even though I received a portion of his pension for 7 months, they will just say that it satisfied the alimony. It is more then my alimony. It exceeds it by $230 per month. But if he was receiving his portion of my pension, then we would have went according to the alimony thing.

It came out to if I assumed he received part of my pension for the months he should have gotten it, if he didn't mess it up, I would have let him not pay the alimony of $400 for Oct - Dec, and I would send him a check for about $500.

He wouldn't take that deal. He wants $1200. I told him I would do the computation the way the court would do it, and he would owe me $1200 for the months Oct - Dec. He told me to take him to court. Alleges that I received more money from his pension then what I stated. I told him to get proof of that and if I was given the proof I would then pay it, he told me I should get the proof that I didn't receive that.

That was when I gave up. No more emails from him, I can't deal with them.

I was trying to give him a break, and he gave me a headache.

Yes, everything will go through my attorney now.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:44 AM
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Amy, PLEASE stop hurting your head over who is "technically" or "morally" entitled to more money. The moralities can be debated endlessly. The reason there are LAWS and RULES that govern these things is that for the most part, they are fair. Occasionally someone will get a windfall or someone will pay something they wouldn't otherwise have to pay. The overall system is intended to be fair to all parties.

In this situation, when you are dealing with someone who will mess with your head, FORGET ABOUT the technicalities and moralities. Follow the order, and the law that governs its interpretation and let go of the rest.

I'm not suggesting you should factor this into who owes whom what at this point, but consider all the pain you suffered over the years, the expenses YOU had to shell out as a result of living with this violent abuser. You aren't finagling to get one over on him, but if the way the law works you get a little bit more and he gets a little bit less, so what? Think of it as the universe's way of evening things out a bit.

ALL of your interactions with him from the time of your divorce should be governed strictly by the terms of the order and by the law. Let go of the rest--please. You are burdening yourself without good reason.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by amy55 View Post
Lexie, I don't really have money to pay a lawyer. Also I think technically I am right, morally I am wrong. Since the money amount is not that much, less then $1500 either way, I just want him to know, don't f with me anymore.
This bold part seems to be what this is about, much more so than the money.

And whether you win this round or not, he will likely continue to f with you, for as long as you engage in any interactions with him.

I think for your well being, ending contact with him, will get you to the being done with him f ing with you point a lot faster than anything else.

I understand well wanting to prove, even legally, that the abusive crazy ex was or is in the wrong.

But at the end of the day, no amount of money, or court sanctioned validation, was worth my continued requirement to have any contact with my ex.

Best choice I ever made was to agree to fairly ridiculous terms on finances simply to be done having to engage in any way with my ex A abuser husband...

If the issue here isn't really the money and you can make it without fighting this battle, then just be done engaging with him in it.

Just my two cents.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:05 AM
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I'm going with my lawyer, whatever will be will be. This isn't going to be my last fight with him. He will owe me alimony till he turns age 66. I also need a garnishment. Also, I signed off of survivors benefits in lieu of a life ins policy of a certain amount that is decreased each year by the life expectancy chart. He Has a life insurance policy that will not meet that requirement at age 65, 70, 75, 80.

For my own sanity, I need to give this over to someone else.

I fought with him last year for 7 months over the pension division. He wanted to use his net income and my gross income. I can't go through this again.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:35 AM
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And there's no reason you have to. I look at money I pay people like my lawyer and my accountant as money well-spent in assuring my continued serenity and sanity. I let them deal with the headaches, the arguing, the agonizing.
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:47 PM
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I did the calculations in my head, I was trying to be nice. I won't have to pay him anything except for that check I sent out today, and he will owe me 2 months of alimony at $400 a month, and I won't be giving him the $500 when I was trying to be nice. That's $1700. I would be saving because I wasn't going to ask for anymore alimony this year. This will definitely pay for the lawyer. Hopefully he will learn not to eff with me anymore.
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:52 PM
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I have reviewed this and revisited this over and over in my head. I did email my attorney on Friday to tell her that I want her to represent me.

I do try to be a fair person. I worked for S o ci al Se c uri ty. Dealt with Sup plem en ta l Se sur i t y In co m e. Words are split for a reason. I have always tried to do a computation for another persons benefit. I know, not many people like to go to that office, or to deal with them. I really don't blame anyone for that. I worked there. I do know how many people get scr ewed. I was never one of those. I always got enough info from the beginning so if a person got irate, and had to be escorted out, that I could still check out whether or not they had a valid claim. I still tried to help them out. A lot of gov workers just feel like, just get them away from my desk. It's not who I am. I really need to research if they are entitled to more, and many times I found out that they were.

I remember being really bored once. My work was all done. It wasn't in my job description to do folder shipment. That was clerical work. I did it anyway. I had to take unnecessary things out of the file so we can ship it out. I actually did read some of the determinations, and found a claim that was wrongfully denied to the tune of $80,000. I couldn't let it go, claim was denied 4 years ago and the wrong computation was used. The person was blind. It changed the computation.

This is how bad I am about morals. I could have just shipped that folder. She never questioned the decision. It was a closed case to never be looked at again.

This is all alien territory for me. I may need a lot of help her dealing with technically right, vrs morally right. I do plan to pursue this issue, but it is mostly so that he backs off of me, and doesn't try to bully me.

amy
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