Back on the crazy train
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Originally Posted by redatlanta 
Could be a blessed reward, or a nightmare.
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RedDog, consider the statement "why should I run away from red flags?"
Healthy relationships exist. You can have one. You need to start with a healthy relationship with yourself. Otherwise you will forever bounce from one unhealthy relationship to another, just wishing and hoping one will complete you. The one that will complete you is the one you have with yourself. It is the only one that can.
Red flags are not to be settled for. They aren't party favors, and you don't win by collecting the most. They are warning signs that tell us we cannot reasonably expect to have a healthy relationship with someone.
I don't know this guy or whether this is all a real problem or not. But your 'codependent freak outs' are not just something you have to live with for the rest of your life. You can overcome codependency.
Healthy relationships exist. You can have one. You need to start with a healthy relationship with yourself. Otherwise you will forever bounce from one unhealthy relationship to another, just wishing and hoping one will complete you. The one that will complete you is the one you have with yourself. It is the only one that can.
Red flags are not to be settled for. They aren't party favors, and you don't win by collecting the most. They are warning signs that tell us we cannot reasonably expect to have a healthy relationship with someone.
I don't know this guy or whether this is all a real problem or not. But your 'codependent freak outs' are not just something you have to live with for the rest of your life. You can overcome codependency.
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
But your 'codependent freak outs' are not just something you have to live with for the rest of your life. You can overcome codependency.
It's truly me..
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Originally Posted by RedDog735
IMHO, I believe the only way someone can 100 percent overcome codependency is if they just abstained from relationships. I sense the codependent in me with friends, family members, etc. And I equally have codependent freak outs with them. It's not just this guy. It's truly me..
Part of getting here WAS abstaining from relationships - both for my sake and for the sake of other people who didn't deserve the expectations I was placing on them. When I took that break I had no choice but to face myself and my issues. The scariest step I ever took was backing off relationships and not having someone else to define and validate me, I HAD to learn to define and validate myself. Eventually that validation turned to respect, forgiveness, and even love. Those are things that I will have for the rest of my life, no matter what happens to me, no matter who leaves or enters my life, whether by choice or by circumstance.
Part of it was also having to be around other people who knew me as a codependent and changing how I behaved in those relationships. Some didn't make it, and that is okay. Some survived, most improved immensely.
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I don't look at my partner as someone that defines and validates me but rather with one day at a time, and slowly but surely, our relationship is building into something just simply, nice. Whatever happens, happens.
It is a flaw to jump right into another relationship (only after 8 months of the past one) but I work my program and I turn it all over to my HP one step at a time.
These "codependent freak outs" as I like to call them and as I understand them, come and go less frequently than when I was with the alcoholic. I clearly have triggers and I am still very new at managing my thoughts and feelings. But I am amazed nonetheless at the progress that has came with this very little time.
Some days I say my serenity prayer just once, and some days I have to say it over and over 100 times. Just for today, I am feeling okay.
It is a flaw to jump right into another relationship (only after 8 months of the past one) but I work my program and I turn it all over to my HP one step at a time.
These "codependent freak outs" as I like to call them and as I understand them, come and go less frequently than when I was with the alcoholic. I clearly have triggers and I am still very new at managing my thoughts and feelings. But I am amazed nonetheless at the progress that has came with this very little time.
Some days I say my serenity prayer just once, and some days I have to say it over and over 100 times. Just for today, I am feeling okay.
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Red.....just to expound a little bit more.....there is a difference between co-dependency and healthy interdependency. We are all I nterdependent with others to some degree.
And, I believe that some red flags are a deeper red than others....lol.
Those that deal with safety and trust and respect, I believe are the most important ones.
Of course, I agree with you, that no one is perfect and we all have a past of some kind.
But, which ones are the deal breakers? What can we live with and still thrive?
dandylion
And, I believe that some red flags are a deeper red than others....lol.
Those that deal with safety and trust and respect, I believe are the most important ones.
Of course, I agree with you, that no one is perfect and we all have a past of some kind.
But, which ones are the deal breakers? What can we live with and still thrive?
dandylion
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I'm with SparkleKitty.
Your wrote: So if I'm working my program, with some freak outs in between (because they are inevitable with my personality), I don't see why I should run away from red flags. I can find "red flags" with any person in any relationship. Does this make me incapable of healthy relationships?
Why frame assessing a relationship by saying "I don't think I should run away from red flags?"
I know you connect this with your next comment "I can find 'red flags' with any person in any relationship", and that suggests that your base line is seeing problems with anyone and everyone. And that suggests that, since you can't evaluate who is healthy and who is not, it is okay and inevitable that you will choose someone with problems.
I think you've gotten a lot of helpful comments here suggesting that you take some time and really sort through what the truth is about what a real cautionary event or behavior in a prospective partner is versus a kind of shotgun approach that says "everyone has red flags, I can't distinguish between them, so it doesn't matter."
It seems that the facts here, such as we know from your post, are that:
That's what HE did.
You, however, are questioning your own sanity and reality by thinking that it is a "freak-out" for you to be upset, concerned, angry, hurt, and somewhat jealous that someone you love would doublecross and cheat on you, have unprotected sex with an unknown woman, and finally admit to you that he did so only after months.
It is worse for you because you want children and can't have them, and he must have known that. That rubs salt deeply into a wound you can't help having and you can't really ever fully heal. (You can come to accept it, but you can't fix it to be what you want.) That's callous and thoughtless at the best, and wounding and damaging at the worst for someone to do that to someone they love and profess to know and cherish.
As others have said here, it opens lifelong issues for a future relationship with this man. It now includes not one step-child, but also a new child by a mother who is estranged from him - a child who may or may not be part of his life in terms of loving, support, time, and financial responsibilites. It changes what he has to offer you.
I think your reactions are appropriate, necessary, and healthy. This man risked his health - and yours - with cheating by unprotected sex. (You need to get checked for STDs, as an aside.) And you only know about that incident because he got caught by a pregnancy that he supposedly caused. What else has he done that he has neglected to tell you?
Where is his loyalty and love for you in all this?
This man either didn't understand who you are and your regrets and emotional vulnerabilities about not being able to have children, or he didn't care.
If it were me, I would put him on pause and let him work out the lifelong problem he has created by supposedly fathering this child. I'd watch to see who he reveals himself to be as he handles this.
If it were me, the take-away from all of this would be that "I don't understand what healthy behavior is and is not in a partner, and I am not making good assessments when I choose potential partners".
If I were you, I would focus on learning what healthy is, within myself first, and do it without being in a relationship that confuses me.
In fact, for me, now 3 years after leaving a 20 year marriage to an alcoholic abusive man, I waited over 2 and a half years to date, did a huge amount of difficult introspection with a counsellor, and came to understand my own flaws and dysfunctional patterns. That let me grow beyond my past knee-jerk choices in men who resembled my alcoholic abusive father. I am still learning and course-correcting my behavior. It has made all the difference in the world in who my partner is now compared to who I chose in my prior relationships.
I would say, honor yourself. First and foremost. And then, with some true introspection, you will heal yourself and draw whole, healthy, loving, loyal future partners to you. You are worthy of this, and you can choose it. You can have this. You can be whole, despite your worries that you will never be.
Said with compassion, take what you want and leave the rest.
ShootingStar1
Your wrote: So if I'm working my program, with some freak outs in between (because they are inevitable with my personality), I don't see why I should run away from red flags. I can find "red flags" with any person in any relationship. Does this make me incapable of healthy relationships?
Why frame assessing a relationship by saying "I don't think I should run away from red flags?"
I know you connect this with your next comment "I can find 'red flags' with any person in any relationship", and that suggests that your base line is seeing problems with anyone and everyone. And that suggests that, since you can't evaluate who is healthy and who is not, it is okay and inevitable that you will choose someone with problems.
I think you've gotten a lot of helpful comments here suggesting that you take some time and really sort through what the truth is about what a real cautionary event or behavior in a prospective partner is versus a kind of shotgun approach that says "everyone has red flags, I can't distinguish between them, so it doesn't matter."
It seems that the facts here, such as we know from your post, are that:
- You've been involved with this man for 8 months, which makes it since March 2015.
- In July, he had unprotected sex with a woman he didn't know and doesn't care about, after over 4 months in relationship with you.
- In November, now 8 months in relationship with you, he tells you that he thinks he fathered a child over 3 months ago.
- You don't know when he found out that the woman is pregnant.
That's what HE did.
You, however, are questioning your own sanity and reality by thinking that it is a "freak-out" for you to be upset, concerned, angry, hurt, and somewhat jealous that someone you love would doublecross and cheat on you, have unprotected sex with an unknown woman, and finally admit to you that he did so only after months.
It is worse for you because you want children and can't have them, and he must have known that. That rubs salt deeply into a wound you can't help having and you can't really ever fully heal. (You can come to accept it, but you can't fix it to be what you want.) That's callous and thoughtless at the best, and wounding and damaging at the worst for someone to do that to someone they love and profess to know and cherish.
As others have said here, it opens lifelong issues for a future relationship with this man. It now includes not one step-child, but also a new child by a mother who is estranged from him - a child who may or may not be part of his life in terms of loving, support, time, and financial responsibilites. It changes what he has to offer you.
I think your reactions are appropriate, necessary, and healthy. This man risked his health - and yours - with cheating by unprotected sex. (You need to get checked for STDs, as an aside.) And you only know about that incident because he got caught by a pregnancy that he supposedly caused. What else has he done that he has neglected to tell you?
Where is his loyalty and love for you in all this?
This man either didn't understand who you are and your regrets and emotional vulnerabilities about not being able to have children, or he didn't care.
If it were me, I would put him on pause and let him work out the lifelong problem he has created by supposedly fathering this child. I'd watch to see who he reveals himself to be as he handles this.
If it were me, the take-away from all of this would be that "I don't understand what healthy behavior is and is not in a partner, and I am not making good assessments when I choose potential partners".
If I were you, I would focus on learning what healthy is, within myself first, and do it without being in a relationship that confuses me.
In fact, for me, now 3 years after leaving a 20 year marriage to an alcoholic abusive man, I waited over 2 and a half years to date, did a huge amount of difficult introspection with a counsellor, and came to understand my own flaws and dysfunctional patterns. That let me grow beyond my past knee-jerk choices in men who resembled my alcoholic abusive father. I am still learning and course-correcting my behavior. It has made all the difference in the world in who my partner is now compared to who I chose in my prior relationships.
I would say, honor yourself. First and foremost. And then, with some true introspection, you will heal yourself and draw whole, healthy, loving, loyal future partners to you. You are worthy of this, and you can choose it. You can have this. You can be whole, despite your worries that you will never be.
Said with compassion, take what you want and leave the rest.
ShootingStar1
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Shooting Star, your wisdom is spot on. I agree with you 1000%
Red Dog, I certainly hope you choose to take some time for yourself here.
Just my gut, but I think another piece of this puzzle will be revealed.
For some reason your BF's words just aren't adding up, more will be revealed,
Red Dog, I certainly hope you choose to take some time for yourself here.
Just my gut, but I think another piece of this puzzle will be revealed.
For some reason your BF's words just aren't adding up, more will be revealed,
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Reddog could you please clarify re: shooting star post - as I read your post the 8 months is how long you waited to get in another relationship with the current guy. My understanding that the one night stand happened before you met. Is that correct, or have you been dating the guy while he had the one night stand? *confused*
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red, i think you might be almost deliberately obfuscating the meaning of the term RED FLAG.....in order to stay IN an unhealthy relationship. and using the codependent-til-i-die card to boot.
when you started this post you were in full "freak out" mode and now today you're all zen and que sera sera. why are you willing to continue on with this man who has now presumably (and carelessly?) fathered two children, one woman he barely knew and had unprotected sex with? that BEHAVIOR is a RED FLAG.
when you started this post you were in full "freak out" mode and now today you're all zen and que sera sera. why are you willing to continue on with this man who has now presumably (and carelessly?) fathered two children, one woman he barely knew and had unprotected sex with? that BEHAVIOR is a RED FLAG.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Reddog could you please clarify re: shooting star post - as I read your post the 8 months is how long you waited to get in another relationship with the current guy. My understanding that the one night stand happened before you met. Is that correct, or have you been dating the guy while he had the one night stand? *confused*
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From my original post, I was talking about ME and my character defects not my significant other's. I tend to overthink until I go crazy about certain situations, hence why I say I have "codependent freak outs."
I do not understand why sometimes my words get twisted around. I understand the nature of addicts and alcoholics (hell, I was with one for quite some time) but I was merely trying to get some wisdom and support regarding the newest reveal about this pregnancy and it is simply that I cannot control the situation as it stands right now, today.
I do not understand why sometimes my words get twisted around. I understand the nature of addicts and alcoholics (hell, I was with one for quite some time) but I was merely trying to get some wisdom and support regarding the newest reveal about this pregnancy and it is simply that I cannot control the situation as it stands right now, today.
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Honestly, if unprotected sex were a metric for a Red Flag I kinda thing almost the entire of this country may qualify. I'd also throw in a one night stand in that perhaps at a lower rate, but damn if most people I know haven't had one (or several). Difference is it didn't result in a pregnancy. It is risky behavior, BUT it does not indicate your BF did anything beyond something stupid - it doesn't mean he is a serial cheater, it doesn't mean he is irresponsible in every aspect of his life.
It does mean you have a situation that is going to be difficult and there is no other way to look at that. You are in a relationship with someone you really haven't dated very long. Situations of this magnitude are very trying on a relationship, and in general take a really deep root to get through. You don't have that with this person yet. So while you are still in the "honeymoon" phase you are also tackling a problem of great magnitude, and to be honest that combo isn't a great one.
it is very possible for you to commit the next months only to have this blow up after the child is born. No one has any knowledge of the mother, her behavior, her financial situation, her support system. These are things that will affect YOU. You and your BF are no longer a couple, but a threesome. You will both be navigating the power this woman has. He directly, and you indirectly - its a lot - until the child is born, the legal documents are signed sealed and delivered, and the relationship is established after the birth which could take a long, long time. It could be unpleasant. OR, it may not be. There isn't anyone here who can predict it.
My advice is to continue to work your program hard, keep up with your meetings. Establish boundaries as things come up. If your relationship reduces to evolving around the mother, problems associated with the situation, always talking about her and the baby, dealing with your BF and his moods or behaviors due to the situation, then you need to exit. If you find you are often triggered, your own behavior slides into codie "save the day" mode, Or you just generally become unhappy with the situation you need to exit.
Detaching a bit and allowing more to be revealed would serve you well. I'm sorry you have been handed another biggie. I do hope it works out for all involved, and I will keep you in my prayers for this very difficult situation.
It does mean you have a situation that is going to be difficult and there is no other way to look at that. You are in a relationship with someone you really haven't dated very long. Situations of this magnitude are very trying on a relationship, and in general take a really deep root to get through. You don't have that with this person yet. So while you are still in the "honeymoon" phase you are also tackling a problem of great magnitude, and to be honest that combo isn't a great one.
it is very possible for you to commit the next months only to have this blow up after the child is born. No one has any knowledge of the mother, her behavior, her financial situation, her support system. These are things that will affect YOU. You and your BF are no longer a couple, but a threesome. You will both be navigating the power this woman has. He directly, and you indirectly - its a lot - until the child is born, the legal documents are signed sealed and delivered, and the relationship is established after the birth which could take a long, long time. It could be unpleasant. OR, it may not be. There isn't anyone here who can predict it.
My advice is to continue to work your program hard, keep up with your meetings. Establish boundaries as things come up. If your relationship reduces to evolving around the mother, problems associated with the situation, always talking about her and the baby, dealing with your BF and his moods or behaviors due to the situation, then you need to exit. If you find you are often triggered, your own behavior slides into codie "save the day" mode, Or you just generally become unhappy with the situation you need to exit.
Detaching a bit and allowing more to be revealed would serve you well. I'm sorry you have been handed another biggie. I do hope it works out for all involved, and I will keep you in my prayers for this very difficult situation.
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I apologize for misunderstanding your timeline and then misunderstanding the issues you were asking about.
Redatlanta has given you wise counsel, based on what is really going on, and I agree with her.
I am glad that you are on your way to emotional health, and I still think that the healthier we are, the more we draw healthy people to us.
Take care,
ShootingStar1
Redatlanta has given you wise counsel, based on what is really going on, and I agree with her.
I am glad that you are on your way to emotional health, and I still think that the healthier we are, the more we draw healthy people to us.
Take care,
ShootingStar1
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Originally Posted by ShootingStar1
I apologize for misunderstanding your timeline and then misunderstanding the issues you were asking about. Redatlanta has given you wise counsel, based on what is really going on, and I agree with her. I am glad that you are on your way to emotional health, and I still think that the healthier we are, the more we draw healthy people to us. Take care, ShootingStar1
I apologize for sounding so harsh. I do appreciate your kind words- I wish I could've listened to your wisdom a couple years back in my previous A relationship. Hugs- I am continuing to detach and remain as healthy as possible!
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