Stung

So for a while now, when AH is here and he participates in the bedtime routine for our two daughters, our oldest daughter has consistently requested "no hugs, no kisses" from AH. Yesterday and today, she told Daddy that she doesn't like it when he makes bad decisions, like drinking stuff that makes him sick.

Earlier this week, AH was here, and oldest DD told him that she wants him to be "here always" he said he wants to too, and she told him that she is sad when he isn't here - he promises that he'll be here the following day. What does he do the very next day? Drinks and avoids our daughters.

Me: Oldest DD, daddy isn't coming over today.
ODD: Why?
Me: Dad decided to drink some stuff that makes him sick and because I don't want us to get sick too, Daddy isn't allowed to be here when he does that.
ODD: Oh, okay.

Flash forward to today, AH decides he doesn't want to be here again - but this time it's deflection and blame shifting reasons (because I'm obviously the villain that is directing/causing all of his chaos) so I ask my girls if they want to FaceTime Dad to say good-night. Oldest DD doesn't want to talk to him, then she draws a picture about her feelings and tells AH that she doesn't like it when he makes bad decisions and doesn't like it when he drinks stuff that makes him sick and she wants him to stop.

On the one hand, this is super sad, what 4 year old has to think of and ask for these things from her father. On the other hand...alcoholic families typically don't talk about this stuff. My daughter knows EXACTLY what is going on and that it's not what daddies typically do. She also KNOWS that it's not because of her. Fortunately for us, AH corroborates when I tell her that Daddy makes bad decisions because of Daddy only. Some days he tries his best and some days he doesn't.

I'm not sure how I feel about all of this, but it is what it is.

I wish I could just buy a new husband, but honestly even if I could I don't trust my picker. I need husband insurance.

I'm also not really sure why I'm sharing other than that I need to just let this out and this seems like a good enough place to park it.

amy55

((((((((((((((Stung)))))))))))))

I'm here for you. I know sometime talking to someone is like spitting in the wind. I just wanted to say that I hear you.

amy

Stung

Thanks for the support, Amy.

I think I'm trying to avoid comments about how much of a scumbag AH is, like I don't already know it. But more trying to share how my daughter is handling, growing into the reality of who her dad is. There are so many articles, blogs, theories on how to raise children in general but when you try to search for theories, practices, articles on raising children with an addict parent...suddenly there is very limited material.

Long story short, I'm trying my best here. But damn, it's really sad sometimes. Most days he doesn't impact us but breaking a promise like that (a daddy to his daughter) is a actually a big deal for her in the bigger picture. I want her to know that THAT is NOT how a man treats a woman, and she seems to understand that he's the one responsible for this behavior. I also want her to understand that we cannot make him stop no matter how much we want him to stop or how many times we tell him to. But I'm happy that she told him how she felt. My little girl has feelings and I'm glad I'm at least raising her in an environment where she feels comfortable feeling them and expressing them.

If AH had his way, everyone would pretend that he's doing nothing wrong.

maia1234

Stung,
I am so sorry he keeps disappointing your kids. I would recommend reaching out on the support forum for adult children of alcoholics. Ask them these questions how to help your kids. Not to talk about it, change the subject, to sugar coat it to help them get through this, just not sure. But they have walked in your kids shoes.

I think they might have a better perspective on how they felt and what would have made them feel better or maybe something that they are doing or have done to get through this.

Hugs to you stung, you are a good mom!!!

slowclimb

No comments from me on AH. Just want you to know that your daughters will grow up trusting you to tell them the truth and be able to express their feelings to you. That's a great thing - esp in an alcoholic household.

My DD is 12 and is the light of AH's life. She's always been daddy's girl however in the past year she trusts him less because of his drinking (sneaking it, lying about it, breaking promises). Breaks my heart...for him as much as for her.

redatlanta

I don't think your husband is a scumbag. I think your husband is probably a fine person. He's an alcoholic and this is what they do. They consistently break promises because alcohol is numero uno.

Your daughter is handling this well for a 4 year old. As I write that I can't help but empathize with her that this is a lot for a 4 year old to deal with. Its been a lot for a couple of years.

Do you have a boundary with him as far as this behavior is concerned? I know that he is not currently living there. It sounds like If he is sober he gets to participate in the family, if he is drinking he is to stay a way and do whatever it is he does. I'm going to gently point out that this scenario is an alcoholics dream situation, and may perpetuate his attitude that he isn't doing something wrong. He is being accommodated after all.........

I wish I could just buy a new husband, but honestly even if I could I don't trust my picker. I need husband insurance. Don't go there. You have done amazing work on yourself. You are a fantastic mom. I feel that your broken picker has most likely been corrected my friend. If you should choose to end this relationship I think you can with confidence that this won't be a repeat performance.

(((hugs))) to you and your kids.

firebolt

^^ What she said.

Sad for all involved, but as always, you sound level, honest and HEALTHY!(((Stung)))

ardy

Hi Stung ... seems like alot of us have been in the same boat.. and all I keep asking is why why why... you know I have the funny feeling it was Adam that ate that apple first... and then had to have Eve take a bit.. for it seems and I know this is not totally true ... but it seems like the ladies get screwed the most.... and then we have the kids too....
my hubby turns 61 today.. is better in health now then the last 18 years.. and we are having a party for him.. Mom Dad Sis her hubby Daughter her boyfriend and there was to be Ed's Son and his 3 little ones... we don't get to see them but once in a year... and it seems he will not be bringing them but the new girl friend... really .. your wife of 15 years and someone you lived with for 5 years before .. you have a son and 2 lovely little daughters with is not good enough... and at a party for your Dad you are bringing the girl friend... really.... just very upseting... I had to go from a venue of family with children coming to great place for no children and just adults.. to now a 61st birthday party that a bimbo nasty female that will not have grand children with them..... sorry all.. but really Ladies What the H---- is wrong with the Male Animal any who.... hugs and prayers ardy..

FireSprite

I get that. It sucks that our kids have to deal with alcoholism but I've always handled it a lot like you Stung; driving home the thought that this is NOT her fault, not something she can control & not something that defines her in any way. Education, stress management & tools for dealing with emotions in a healthy way vs. stuffing or ignoring them are vital to a child of an alcoholic, IMO. I can't stop DD from feeling (nor do I want to) but I can educate her on the reasons why it happens.

It DOES suck that he keeps disappointing them, but you can't control that no matter what you do. The disappointment wouldn't necessarily stop if you were to divorce either, it would probably increase because he'd be accountable to more scheduled time with the girls & his absences would be even MORE noticeable & hurtful.

Your oldest DD reminds me SO much of my own at that age. Sassy, but respectful. I've given her freedom to be honest & express herself so I can't be surprised when she does. Did I ever share the CD story with you? DD was about 6/7 & we'd been out running errands & listening to a mix CD that I'd made. RAH was driving but skipping through the CD at will listening to what he liked & ignoring the rest. When we got home & were gathering our bags, DD stopped us before getting out of the car & told RAH that she felt it was pretty rude of him to skip through without any regard for what anyone else in the car wanted to listen to - just because you don't like a song dad, doesn't mean none of us do & we don't have to just sit here & listen to what YOU like, do we? She'd wanted to hear 2-3 of those songs, so was he saying-without-words that her wants & needs didn't matter to him?

She was REALLY kind about it, VERY respectful & also very "this ends here, bucko" about it. Then she unbuckled her seat belt, gathered her things, walked away & left him like this --->

Stung

It might be an alcoholic's paradise but from what he communicates to me, his paradise would actually be living here with us and us having to deal with his crappy moods and poor decision making capabilities on a daily basis whether he's drinking or not. He wants to live with us.

At 4 years old and 2 years old, I recognize that our daughters love AH and I equally, regardless of how little he's actually involved with raising them and how often he lets them down. Their minds aren't yet capable of keeping tally of his actions over time, the way an adult mind is. I know that he's never spent a Halloween with our youngest daughter (can you imagine skipping your own child's first 3 Halloweens?!) but she doesn't know that. I don't want to eliminate him from their lives anymore than he is already eliminating himself. That's what my mom did with my dad and it's not beneficial. This situation is actually the most accommodating to my daughters. They are getting some time with their dad (which is better than none) and I do my best to keep their home life stable, predictable, reliable and safe.

Daughters actually need their fathers as much as they need their mothers. That's why it hurts my daughters so much. He's an important person in their lives whether he wants to be or not. Whether I want him to be or not. It's just the way it works. Kids love their parents no matter how much they hurt them. I think sometimes that pain can be eased with the presence of rockstar step-parents but that isn't in the cards right now.

I agree with you. I personally think that this is as good as it's going to get while he continues to choose to drink and not take therapy/recovery seriously. Our daughters live in a continuously stable environment in one home with me. They know when bedtime is, they know how their routines and schedules work, what's expected of them AND what is expected of me. He only avoids/abandons them when he's been drinking, a few days every 2 - 3 months (which is literally choosing booze over spending time with our kids, which sucks because they really do want to spend time with him - especially my 2 year old who is going through a fierce Daddy's Girl phase right now). It's not because I prevent him from being here or that I haven't been willing or given him opportunities - he makes bad decisions and chooses to drink/not be with our daughters.

Kids form their own opinions about adults and my 4 year old is ALREADY clearly seeing what AH is all about: his words and actions don't align and his actions are much more impactful than his words. She sees me clearly too which becomes apparent to me through her picking up some of my mannerisms and phrases.

Everyone on the playground knows which kids hit and which ones won't share, even though they all look and sound like angels. AH is their daddy and looks like a daddy but he fibs a lot, breaks promises and he throws temper tantrums from time to time. Behaviors that they already know are not acceptable for them and also not acceptable from dad.

Side note: he told me last week that I was weird because I have memories from my early childhood and he doesn't. My early childhood was traumatic, I guess his wasn't. He told me that typically children don't retain memories until their 6 years old... Regardless of whether that's true or not, it's a freaking justification that he won't actually begin hurting our daughters until their 6 years old. I didn't understand why he said that to me at first except to ostracize me, then I realized everything is about him, it's his justification to make him feel okay not intended to make me feel anything. Do you know when abandonment issues begin to form in childhood? 3 years old! Anyone want to guess why I still have memories from my early childhood, yeah, because it was as traumatic as what my own children are going through (although totally different).

maia1234

Stung,
You got it!! Yes, A's dont want things to change. They want you to take care of the home, the kids, food on the table, house cleaned, work, take care of him, grocery shop and everything else. Why would they want to have to get a place to live, deal with the utilities, pay the bills, be responsible..... I don't think so. It was a huge issue when we divorced, as my XAH could not cope with anything. I was either talking to fast or he just couldn't understand. It was a nightmare for him and me.

They want to still drink, and do what they have been doing for years. They don't want you to change, they don't want you to catch on to their game, they don't want you to get healthy and figure this out.

Yep, this is what "we" created. We do everything because they "choose" not to. We need to get it done, so again we do it. Vicious circle.
Hugs Stung, you are growing smarter and smarter!!

Stung

I feel compelled to update, that my therapist echoed some similar thoughts about this scenario:

So I explained to him that we both know that alcoholism effects the family, not just the drinker and to that end, I needed to enforce some boundaries to protect myself and our daughters. I said that our daughters need him just as much as they need me (arguable) but not when he's like this. Until something changes he can only see them on the weekends and for the one hour a week when I go to see my therapist.

I said that I can either be an enabler for him or teach our daughters how to set boundaries.

He cried and agreed. Less opportunities for broken promises this way.

redatlanta

dandylion

Stung.....it is a ravaged road that we walk on the way to acceptance that what we wanted and planned on is not what we have......

dandylion

Stung

The hardest part about this is that my kids won't have what I want for them, and I know how that sounds but I mean it in a very basic sense. Two parents who love them and care for them. Security, safety, affection, unconditional love, acceptance from both of their parents. I know that not all children have that, but all children deserve it, including my two little ones.

It's just so senseless. I imagine there is a lesson somewhere in all of this, but I can't find it right now. My children deserve better. All children of addicts deserve better.

dandylion

Stung....yes, I know. The Norman Rockwell visions that so many of us had of what it would be like for our family is not always how it turns out...for a lot of us....no matter how hard we have tried.
I don't think that it means that the kids are doomed, though. As long as the kids grow up to understand that their dad was flawed....but, down deep, he loved them.....I think that is the important part. Kids are influenced from so many different sources during their overall development...and humans are designed to be very resilient.
Look at President Obama.....Look at Dr. Phil's wife....the list is a mile l ong....
People who had one consistent parent and one that was not.......

I think that people who have had a traumatic childhood can be so frightened....feeling that they "must" provide a perfectly idealized kind of childhood for their kids....lest their own kids will be crippled...
I think we just have to help the kids learn to cope with the cards that they were dealt....
I DO know what you mean.....I have felt the same way, at times....

dandylion

SparkleKitty

As an ACoA myself, Stung, just one parent like that would have made a tremendous difference to me.

LexieCat

Yup, your kids will make out OK with a great mom who looks out for them. Kids have all kinds of challenges growing up--some get bullied, some live in poverty, some have learning disabilities or health challenges--they can all survive and thrive with the right kind of support.

Hugs,

FireSprite

(((((Hugs))))) Stung. As much as I dislike the idea, it helped me to accept these not-so-Norman-Rockwell parts of our life because I really don't believe that image represents reasonable expectations in today's society. I don't LIKE it, but the reality is that things are no longer the same as they once were. And that maybe they weren't all that THEN either, since we now see how hard & long families will work to circle wagons & secret keep about dysfunction.

When thoughts of divorce were heavy on my mind & DD was much younger I took a big step back & looked at a lot of her classmates' families objectively - just family structure. We were closer to the minority as a family with both mom & dad, no blended family situation of any kind. I realized that I was basing my opinion on MY experience as a child when there might have been one or 2 other kids in the entire class that had dealt with divorce - but that wasn't her reality at ALL. When she gets together with her friend C, the 1st question is always - "Is C at her mom's or her dad's this weekend?" because they live a distance apart & that really changes the timing/activities, etc.

I think having just one parent willing to step outside the pattern & take the hard & painful steps to create future change makes all the difference - I think we're playing such an important part of widening that Rockwell image for OUR kids.

ardy

Hi All... I am the oldest Daughter Oldest Child of an ADad.. he was not always like that.. I remember him before the terrible drinking... before 1957... for when I was 7 my Daddy was 27... we went everywhere together.. walked to school and work in the morning.. scoop me up at lunch and down the hill. back up the hill to work and school.. it was ups and downs hey kids drive you around the bend every so often.. but then there was the time when Mom and Pop did nothing but scream at each other.. and then all the pretend smiles with neighbors and family were around.... as I go older and my 4 sisters got older he got harder and harder.. you had to be so carefull in how you dressed spoke thought and did anything... and family and outsiders did not realize that when they spoke as a joke. he took it for reality.... I was punished alot.. did not let him beat my little sisters anymore then I could.. he hit Diane my #3 sister at 9 years of age so hard one day she flew down the stairs... we thought she was dead or broken .. he walked out of the house. gone for several days.. Diane and Dad were at each others throats from that time on.. the day he died he asked for her.. she said not long ago. he slept while she was there.. never said he was sorry at all. Mom would like to believe that . but it did not happen... I loved my Pop very much.. miss the days of ball playing and going to the farm and having dinner.. but that s-n -f b---h is not here anylonger and can not hurt Mom or sisters or any of the Grandkids and he has missed so much with the greatgrandkids.. of his a total of 11.. I know he watchs from so far away.. for every once in awhile I hear him by my shoulder arda ppsstt arda time to go milk the cows.. love my Pop so much.. but so glad he can't harm anyone any longer... the Daughter of a nasty Drunk... so all but the time of his passing comes once again soon.. he promised when its my turn he will come and we can have coffee and donuts and drive out to the farm .. he wil come and hold out a hand to Mom .. I do feel this will be soon. and they will dance once again with so many around the christmas tree... love ardy...