Validate My Feelings

Old 10-23-2015, 12:08 PM
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Validate My Feelings

Okay, I recently met with my sponsor. Told her about how AH relapsed last week, it's no big deal to me - I feel bad for the guy but at the same time this really doesn't impact me. We don't live together, he doesn't drink around me or the girls. If he's going to drink, he's going to drink, nothing I can do about it. I offered him as much empathy as I could and told him I was sorry he was going through a difficult time.

Anywho, so I'm telling my sponsor about this and I said "...I feel bad that he made the choice to drink..." and she spent about 30 minutes telling me that I'm not compassionate because I think he has a choice in whether he drinks or not. That I don't understand the disease (I fully agree that I don't understand - I understand alcoholism as much as my husband will even understand pregnancy. He knows how the science of it, but not the first hand experience of it.). Then she tells me that I need to go to an open AA meeting but when I ask her what those are like she tells me that she doesn't know because she's never actually been to one herself.

Someone on SR opened my eyes to the wonders of the Mr.Sponsorpants blog where I discovered the phrase "we're not responsible for the 1st thought that comes into our minds, but we ARE responsible for the 2nd though." I have no doubts that my husband wants to drink. I don't doubt that it's really difficult to quiet those thoughts.

But ultimately it IS his choice to drive to the liquor store.
It IS his choice to select a bottle from the shelf.
It IS his choice to purchase that bottle.
It IS his choice to open the bottle and pour the contents into his mouth.
It IS his choice to continue to drink that bottle.
Further it IS his choice to not call someone in a moment of desperation, when the bad choices feel like the BEST or ONLY choice.

It's my choice to decide how to react to him as much as it's his choice to choose to do these things. My choices effect ME the most but they also effect the other people in my life.

She tried comparing alcoholic to cancer and then was frustrated when I asked that we compare it to diabetes instead. I imagine that it's difficult for a diabetic to go to a birthday party, ice cream social, Starbucks for Pete's sake, etc. with the temptation of sweets but knowing that it could very well kill you. But the decision lies within their own ability to make good choices.

Right? Or have I somehow completely missed her point? Drinking is a choice. It is how some addicts DO stay clean.

Right?
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:11 PM
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Right.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by biminiblue View Post
Right.
That is a non answer if I've ever seen one.

If you disagree, would you mind filling me in? Maybe I'm not understanding the difference between compulsion and actually acting on a compulsion.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:19 PM
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Your nicer than me. I would of hung up the phone. I dont care its his choice to pick up the bottle/drug.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:26 PM
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Sounds like having a sponsor with such a strong fundamental difference in beliefs (and I refer specifically to the cancer vs diabetes metaphor) will continue to be challenging to you. I personally agree with you.

I haven't had a sponsor, so I am hoping someone else here can clarify what part of a sponsor's job it is to make sure their sponsees are "compassionate enough." It sounds critical and unsupportive to me.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:34 PM
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Sounds like it's time for a new sponsor.

Sometimes I feel that compassion is the last thing an alcoholic needs, whether they are in recovery or not. It seems almost enabling to comfort them when they CHOOSE to relapse.

That's just my opinion, though.

I feel that was a really irresponsible thing for your sponsor to tell you. Of course he chooses whether or not to drink. What he doesn't choose is control when he chooses to start drinking again. Honestly, if it's not a person's choice whether or not to drink or take part in whatever addiction they choose, then what is the point of recovery at all?

I think your reaction is healthy and realistic. I think it's unhealthy for your sponsor to tell you it isn't and recommend things that she's not even tried yet.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:50 PM
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I'm starting to wonder if she uses this sponsorship relationship to push her personal agenda or vent her own unaddressed codie issues. Her reactions are so over the top to me.

Fwiw,I agree with you and even if I didn't, I don't see any LACK of compassion in your responses.
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:03 PM
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I agree that it’s a conscious decision they make to drink/drug. Relapse happens during sobriety not when they are under the influence. And after they have learned and used relapse prevention tools, meetings, steps, sponsor, counseling it clearly becomes a conscious decision on what direction they take.

What I have found about sponsors in my recovery is that I have out grown a few of them. There have been generational issues, knowledge issues, difference of opinions and a general sense it was time for me to find someone else
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
I agree that it’s a conscious decision they make to drink/drug. Relapse happens during sobriety not when they are under the influence. And after they have learned and used relapse prevention tools, meetings, steps, sponsor, counseling it clearly becomes a conscious decision on what direction they take.

What I have found about sponsors in my recovery is that I have out grown a few of them. There have been generational issues, knowledge issues, difference of opinions and a general sense it was time for me to find someone else
Exactly my line of thinking! He's been to rehab. He currently sees a therapist weekly. He was on step 7 until he drank again (maybe he's still on step 7, I don't know and it's not my business). He has a sponsor. He lives in a sober living environment. He has sober friends. He also just had a string of really positive sobriety experiences lately. I really do feel for him. I don't think anyone chooses to BE an alcoholic but once you realize that you are one and that alcohol really cannot be a part of a healthy/enjoyable life for you, you have to figure out a new way to live. Clearly, he's still struggling with figuring out that balance for himself and that must suck. Regardless, not my circus! Not my business until he decides to share with me, if he decides that.

I have continually had issues with this sponsor but this was kind of the final nail in the coffin. I was ready to talk about how Step 7 has transformed the way that I pray and how and what I ask for. It's also encouraged me to reach out to my friends more frequently (humility is asking for help when I need it, and asking kindly). And she wanted me to go back to step 1 because I don't understand JUST how powerless alcoholics are over alcohol. I asked her point blank "so an alcoholic is powerless over buying alcohol? Over driving themselves TO a liquor store to BUY something? Not just powerless over the effect it has on them when it's consumed?" She said I don't understand because I am VERY strong willed. I already know that I don't understand, but I don't know how I could possibly be MORE compassionate about it. I also have very firm and effective boundaries. I am as detached as I could possibly be. I was sharing what had happened since the last time I saw her. I thought it was relevant considering that he's my qualifier.
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:20 PM
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A few weekends ago my alcoholic mother called when she was drunk ranting about nothing. I told her to not call me when she is drunk, and that I will speak to her when she is sober. She kept sending me texts asking for "compassion." What about compassion for us?? Still, I admit that it really pushed my codie buttons. I have thought about the idea that if my mom had cancer and chose not to treat it that I would probably feel less angry and disappointed than I do with her untreated alcoholism. I sometimes wonder if I am too harsh and judgmental, but I really don't think so. I have come to a level of acceptance that you have, Stung. This is my mom's journey and I am not sure where it will take her, but I don't have to go along for the ride. So, this is my long way of saying that I agree with you.
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:26 PM
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It's not like cancer. Cancer isn't a disease where you can really participate in it's life-long treatment.

Alcoholism is like diabetes. You need to treat it daily and it's tempting to consume stuff that is going to really hurt you and ultimately COULD cause death. (I can actually see a person offering a diabetic a bite of cake and asking what harm a bite would do. Seems very similar to alcoholism. In my opinion anyway.)

There ARE people out there with type 2 diabetes that continue to eat themselves closer and closer to death. I imagine that their loved ones have felt a pain similar to the that of the people who love alcoholics. It's hard to watch someone make poor decisions for their health over and over again.

ETA - And DD, good for you for having some really solid boundaries! YOU are making good decisions for yourself and that's the absolute best thing that YOU can do. I think active alcoholics confuse compassion with sympathy. I don't feel sorry for my AH, I just know what it feels like to feel kind of helpless. I'm sorry that he's hurting, I've been there and I know that there are many healthy people who care about him that would love to help him and see him be healthy. We support sick people by not losing our minds because they've lost theirs.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:21 PM
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I've always been interested in this debate about disease v. choice. It seems like that debate plays itself out on these boards with some frequency. I guess I'm still not convinced there's one right answer. Both are really metaphors, and there are ways that both don't work. As far as how helpful the metaphors are for friends and family, it seems like both also have benefits and drawbacks. The disease metaphor helps friends and family to let go of their anger and develop compassion. It helps them to detach with love instead of detaching with anger. But it can also sometimes justify enabling. The choice metaphor helps friends and family to hold the addict accountable and soothe feelings of guilt on the part of the enabler, but can also fuel anger and make it more difficult to detach with love and compassion. I think it really just depends on where you are in your recovery journey and whether you need to distance yourself more or whether you need more to soothe your anger. It seems more like a balancing act than a right or wrong issue. Not sure what that says about your disagreement with your sponsor.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:26 PM
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Stung, I think that's a really good analogy with diabetes that I have never thought about.
Alcoholism might be a disease, but the wait it's managed (never cured) is that the alcoholic at some point chooses not too drink.

So getting back to the original post. Yes I think your sponsor is not correct at all on WHY/IF you should feel compassion. You might feel compassion for their struggle to remain sober, but in the end it's their choice.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:41 PM
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I agree with you, stung. I think you are not being judgmental or lacking compassion. Sobriety or whatever is his thing. His struggle. I don't feel sorry for my ex-his choice was to continue drinking and surround himself with people that "loved" him and would listen to his victim stories and enable-and not call him out. He pushed away the people trying to help him. Naturally. I have no compassion left for my ex bc of the way he's treated me since the divorce and the way he's treated his own kids. I have no sympothy for him either. He can grow up or not. Again, his choice.

Back to your post, I would have a very hard time keeping this person as my sponsor-it does seek she maybe has her own agenda....I'll just say it, I don't agree with whst she told you. Feelings validated!! Peace to you. And I hope your AH gets back on the wagon.
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Old 10-23-2015, 03:00 PM
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I think the compassion that I feel towards him is best explained by seeing him as a human. His struggles are different than mine. Some of our struggles are similar but his alcoholism in particular is something that I'll never experience or truly understand.

But he is human. He keeps getting back up, trying again, and although he keeps falling (by choice or whatever, that's the thing that I don't actually care about anymore) I, as a fellow human, can empathize with that! Life is hard, man! It's hard for every damn person on the freaking planet. Although his struggle is different than my own I do know what it feels like to struggle and to fail. I know what it feels like to get up over and over and over again and to fall and feel like a failure. I've felt that feeling every time my youngest daughter has broken out with hives from exposure to food allergies. I feel like that on the rare occasion that I react at my AH instead of responding to him. No one, NO ONE!, is perfect. I don't expect that from him. I can treat him with grace.

I also recognize that he's an intelligent man and to pretend otherwise does everyone a disservice. If/When he finds what works for him, it'll work for him. I'm no longer emotionally invested in making sure he doesn't fall down anymore. And that's healthy for me. And our kids. And him.
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Old 10-23-2015, 03:06 PM
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Now what I need to deal with is the feeling I have to make my sponsor understand what *I'm* saying. But she's not going to or she would have already heard/understood me.

I really do need a new sponsor. I guess that's my al-anon homework assignment for right now.
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Old 10-23-2015, 03:09 PM
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What does compassion have to do with the price of tea in China? Where in the twelve steps does it say we have to be compassionate of our addicts?

Isn't she suppose to be helping you work the steps? What steps is she using? Her own?

Allow me to play a little dime store psychology on her. I would just bet that she, herself, struggles with compassion, and she's throwing all of her personal baggage onto you. Trying to play puppet master with you instead of solving her own problems.

What really bothers me is that she spent 30 minutes talking on your dime. Sounds a bit "conversation greedy" to me. Not very compassionate of her.
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Old 10-23-2015, 03:18 PM
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I agree with you, SeriousKarma and SparkleKitty.

I wanted to talk about Step 7 and then I reached out to her earlier this week because my feelings were hurt (AH broke a watch that I gave to him some years ago and man, I know the hurt is mine but it felt like he may have well just broke the watch in front of me and at me. Then for a little while I wanted him to fix my hurt feelings.) She didn't want to talk about that stuff. :/ Not very supportive or compassionate. Thank goodness I have a therapist.

Her reasoning was that she thinks if I'm more compassionate of AH then life will be easier for me. I still don't understand what that means. I'm not resentful of him or even blaming him for anything, and especially not with his recent relapse.
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Old 10-23-2015, 03:31 PM
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Just speaking for myself because I really don't know about Stung's situation, but compassion was important for me personally. I had to learn to detach with love and compassion instead of in anger, because anger kept me stuck. When I distanced myself from an addict in an angry way, I later felt guilty, and then I would swing toward remorse and reach out to the addict to make it up to them. So it was a revelation to me when I read Codependent No More and realized that I could distance myself in a loving way. When I was able to tell my AXBF in a loving and compassionate way that I needed to end a conversation, when I realized that I didn't have to argue with him in order to set boundaries, I was able to distance myself without guilt, and that was the only way I was able to distance myself and make it stick. Again, not commenting on Stung's situation, just commenting on the value of compassion for me, as a codependent.
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Old 10-23-2015, 03:37 PM
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As a recovering alcoholic myself I will say I believe after a certain point is a choice. If I drank now it is because I want to. I made a conscience choice to throw away my recovery and get drunk again.

A mentor of mine with over 40 years in the rooms and over 30 sober said he feels AA's step one should be " admitted I was powerless over the effects of alcohol." Alcohol in and of itself is merely a substance. Only upon ingestion do some people have a problem.

Stung- you were right. It is kind of you to feel bad for your AH and his continuing problems but you absolutely do not need to be more compassionate.
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