sauerkraut

I haven't posted in awhile. Ironically I almost posted last week, to share what seemed to be a happy story. My husband was 6 weeks sober and seemed to be returning to himself, as if he'd been in a fog, going through the motions of his life, but was gradually coming back, to himself and to his family.

And then Monday evening I came home to a lurching, angry, eyes almost swollen shut, drunk husband. Deja vu, all over again.

Back story: he's been drinking a lot for 30 years; drinking heavily for most of the past 5. We've been married 16 years and have 3 kids. It's been an uphill battle for him to realize he's addicted, start to attend meetings, and start to change.

Over the summer I got away with girlfriends for a few weeks and had an epiphany, realizing I'm choosing to spend my life trying to get someone sober when only he can do that. I'm miserable, and I don't need to live this way. I'm not even confident that either of us would be content even if the alcohol were out of the picture.

So I came back and told him I want a divorce. He said I had to be patient, it took him 30 years to develop this habit and will take awhile to change, etc.

I said, good luck with that. I want you to get sober, for the sake of your life and our kids, but I'm spending my life on your rollercoaster, and I'm getting off.

Long story short, he promised me he was quitting drinking, then and there.

I said show me 90 days.

He made it 5 weeks and relapsed (which he blamed on me making him angry).

I gave him another shot, and he lasted 6 weeks before he relapsed (which he blamed on me for making him feel bad).

(Just writing this is good therapy--the patterns and lessons are so obvious).

So last night I told him once again, I'm done. Let's figure out how to work collaboratively toward a divorce, which I think may be possible because we are both devoted to our children.

Here's why I need a sanity check: I went downstairs to apologize this morning, for giving up on our marriage. Why am I apologizing? Why isn't he realizing what he's throwing away? He keeps saying "I made an offer to quit drinking, and that's not enough for you," as if an offer is the same as an action. In our therapy session yesterday, in which we discussed divorce, he denied outright ever driving drunk or disturbing our children with his midnight rants. And he's so persuasive! I have to look at my journals and remind myself, yes, this stuff really happens. The ranting just happened again Monday night.

How do those of you who have it together manage to keep yourself from feeling guilty about your partner's problem?

And here's the other issue on which I need advice: although we're both committed to the kids, he has made it clear that he's going to fight for 50% custody. I can either agree to that, making the process a whole lot smoother and less expensive, or I can try to fight him (a case I may or may not win).

If I let him have the kids (9, 14, 15), is it okay to put them in the position of making sure daddy is okay to drive, etc.? That just seems wrong, like I'm creating codependents out of my sweet children. On the other hand, the teenagers are old enough to know what's going on, and they have cell phones, so they could call or text me if necessary.

He claims he wouldn't do anything that might harm them; the problem is he's not aware of everything he does, so he's not a great judge of that. On the other hand, he doesn't have any DUIs, and I only know of once when he drove drunk, alone (and it was bad, in a blackout state). What I worry about is his tendency to stay up by himself drinking 2/3 of a bottle of vodka, which he might start as late as midnight. By my calculation, that means he would likely still be intoxicated if he were to drive the kids to school in the morning.

When I said I would stay for 90 days, I was doing that to give our marriage a chance and, if that didn't work, to have some assurance that it's safe to share custody. But, now what?

Advice?

Liveitwell

My then husband was still drunk most mornings-which is why I stopped allowing him to drive the kids anywhere-to and from school (he called me a controlling bitch for that and that he didn't have to follow my rules), my ex never had a freakimg clue how disturbing his behavior was (and when I confronted him I was called a psycho bitch or other words), etc, etc, etc. I share this with you just to point out that your husband is no different than any other alcoholic-he talks a whole lot with very little, if anything, to back it up. He makes promises and breaks them, he lies, etc-he is an alcoholic and that is what they do. Period. I understand your children are older but I don't think they should be put in the position of making sure dear old dad is not drinking and driving. Just my two cents.... I'm sure others will chime in! Peace to you tonight

ladyscribbler

But, now what?

Invest in a good pair of earplugs. It seems like a big part of your conflict is that you're taking everything he says as gospel. You're letting his words (quacking, threats, empty promises and outright lies) send you on a future trip that leaves you lost in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).
I did the same thing. Took delivery of all the guilt trippy bs and ridiculous threats my ex handed me. Lived in "what if" land.

And here's the other issue on which I need advice: although we're both committed to the kids, he has made it clear that he's going to fight for 50% custody.

He also said he was going to quit drinking. How's that working out?

What I worry about is his tendency to stay up by himself drinking 2/3 of a bottle of vodka, which he might start as late as midnight. By my calculation, that means he would likely still be intoxicated if he were to drive the kids to school in the morning.

This is future tripping, but it also illustrates why his quackery about split custody might just be a tactic to keep you stuck. Getting the kids to school on time and with all their books, papers, bags, lunches etc. in the a.m. is probably one of the most stressful parts of everyday parental life. Right now he's watching you do all of it thinking it can't be that hard. Easier said than done for a guy who regularly stays up until all hours chugging vodka. I've noticed that in general, active alcoholics are not "morning people."

I can try to fight him (a case I may or may not win).

I'm fighting that fight right now. I have the resources and energy to do it because I'm focused on one thing, our son's safety. I'm not listening to threats and nonsense, or living with the exhausting roller coaster of active alcoholism. No more midnight rants waking me and the kids up. To me it's worth the energy and time, win or lose, because I'll know I've done everything in my power to protect our son.
My ex originally sued for 50/50 custody. That was a year ago. Now he's down to fighting over supervised visitation/monitored sobriety. He's literally paying a lawyer to fight for the right to drink for the 8 or 10 weeks a year that he would have visitation.

If I let him have the kids (9, 14, 15), is it okay to put them in the position of making sure daddy is okay to drive, etc.? That just seems wrong, like I'm creating codependents out of my sweet children. On the other hand, the teenagers are old enough to know what's going on, and they have cell phones, so they could call or text me if necessary.

Alateen. Alateen. Alateen. And no, they shouldn't be trying to monitor his drinking, but this is a good opportunity to have an age-appropriate conversation with them about not riding with a driver who is impaired (no matter who that driver is). Teaching them about boundaries will stand them in good stead for the rest of their lives, no matter what they're dealing with.
Also did I mention Alateen?

Seriously, I'm sorry you and your kids are experiencing this. There's never one perfect, right answer that guarantees an ideal outcome for all involved. If it was that easy none of us would agonize over these decisions.
Something that's been a huge help to my custody case are the journals I've kept for the past five years (during and after our relationship). I'm able to recount specific incidents and document his patterns of drinking and abusive behavior, even when there was no official record like an arrest.
Give yourself as much time and recovery as you need to gain the strength and clarity to choose your path. Don't worry so much about artificial timelines or trying to plan your life around his sporadic sobriety attempts. Work on your boundaries and the rest will follow.

Nyinabo

Reading this thread was very good for me. Somehow it's easier to see the truth when it's in a story about someone else's life rather than your own story. I'm sorry I can't offer any help as I'm quite new to this but maybe if you read through other people's threads you'll find similar situations to yours and how they've dealt with them. Best of luck.

theuncertainty

All of the kids are old enough to know something's going on. DS was about 7 1/2 when visits with AXH stopped. He knew then that he didn't like it when his dad drank, and he knew his dad drank a lot. He knew before then. You're right, asking your kids to make sure daddy is ok to drive would be wrong. But you can still empower all of them to call you or others without making it their responsibility to police their dad's drinking. Both DS and I saw counselors through the divorce, and after. I asked for their help and safety planned with DS: fire, bad men in the house, some one getting hurt, some one not being able to drive. Or you could put alternate plans in place for getting to school that automatically sidestep AH driving.

Initially, I had to replace it with focusing on DS. I didn't want *this* to be the family DS grew up in. AXH wasn't going to change, so that left me having to change.


Ultimately, it comes down to what you think is best. Not necessarily what is easiest or less expensive, although those are important considerations. Not what is best for you. Not best for your AH. But, like Ladyscribbler wrote, what is best for your kids. I think if you approach the divorce with that in mind along with at least a slight understanding of your AH's addiction, it'll help you understand what you might want to propose for custody.

When I left AXH, he threatened to take DS and I'd never see him again; and that any court would give him full custody. When I filed for divorce and asked for full legal and primary physical custody, with AXH getting a set visitation schedule, AXH countered with 50/50. (A HUGE change from his full custody stance.) What the court granted was more restrictive in some respects than even my first proposal, and less restrictive time-wise.

I don't know about your AH, but AXH's initial and revised stances were all about no-restrictions on him and no child support. (And a threat to try to keep me in place.) There wasn't much thought about actually having to do all of the parenting. Reality of having DS was a lot more work, even though he had a GF with 2 kids of her own. DS's schedule interferred with everything on the weeks GF's kids were at their dad's.

It changes. AXH's drinking changed. It'd go into hiding; he'd white-knuckle it; he'd binge; it got worse. And that was only one reason to make keeping DS's safety at the top of any criteria list important.

Best wishes as you work through/with everything.

dandylion

sauerkraut.....my experience with this mirrors a lot of what the others have said....especially, ladyscribbler....lol!
I divorced my children's dad many years ago....my kids are adults, now.
When I announced that I was divorcing him....he responded with threats of "taking the children".... I think, from what I have observed, that this is verrrry common. Like ladyscribbler said....it probably looks easy to them, if you have been doing most of the tasks of parenting. Also, the kids cut into their social life and drinking time.
Most of the time....I think these are empty threats....BUT, they know that the kids are a sensitive subject with mothers....so, they can use that to their advantage.
As it turned out.....my ex tapered off of even getting the kids on his allowed visiting times....and, I was willing to give him as much time with the kids as he wanted.
I don't know your husband, of course....and, I don't know if he is the type to fight to the last breath or if he is blowing smoke (like so many).
Now is the time to see a lawyer (or two or three) and find out what your rights, and the rights of the kids are. There is a good website---womansdivorce.com....that gives divorce information, and, it is broken down state by state, subject matter, etc. (you still need a lawyer).

dandylion

NYCDoglvr

Nooo, never. And if there is even a possibility he would drive drunk with them I'd insist on dropping them off, picking them up.

As a recovering alcoholic (24 years) I know I'm responsible for all my actions, including the drinking I did and any harm I caused other people. Today I choose to not drink one day at a time and when I drank each day that was my choice too. Active alcoholics are extremely immature and self-centered so I wouldn't bother trying to figure out why they care about others. They just don't, it's part of the disease.

Liveitwell

^^ wonderfully said, NYC. Yep. It doesn't matter why, it just is what it is.

sauerkraut

Thank you, everyone. I've been reading and rereading your suggestions and comments and appreciate them so much. You all have clearer eyes and experience, which is so helpful.

I had hoped my husband and I could have a collaborative divorce, as I do love and respect him and I think the feeling is mutual, plus as I said before we both intend to put our children first, so would like this to be as non-contentious as possible. However, on the very useful website Dandylion recommended I found:
7. Collaborative Law is Not the Best Option for Everyone

A collaborative divorce has the potential to help any couple who are willing to set aside personal differences and treat each other with respect and understanding. However, there are some cases where collaborative law may not be the best option. These cases involve situations where there was substance abuse, alcoholism, emotional abuse or domestic violence during the marriage.

I'll talk to some collaborative practice attorneys for their advice, too, but is that what you've found? It sounds like we may be in for a war, no matter our intentions.

Also, I take your point on it being possible that I could call his bluff on the 50/50 issue. My friends think, as you point out, that even if he got 50% custody, he wouldn't be willing to make the lifestyle changes it would require, and that it's unlikely he would actually want it. (Future tripping, yes, but how to avoid when trying to figure out what to do now to avoid future problems?)

ghost99

Ok I think you are making a good choice. Life is stressful and he has chosen alcohol somehow to deal with the stress. You could wait a long time or forever for that to change.
I would not get too hung up on the details of the divorce. Just file and work with yourhim if possible and your attorney to get resolution. I think I worried way too much about all the details (I have 3 kids also) and that caused delay.

theuncertainty

I don't know. I made myself sick throughout the divorce and initial rounds of visitation trying to think up and counter possibilities. If it helps, the majority of my What-if's never came to pass. And AXH thought of some doozies that never even entered my thoughts as remotely possible. He was the king of unpredictability.

As far as the custody arrangements go, nothing is really set in stone. When the judge in our divorce/custody hearing handed down the visitation schedule and restrictions, he told AXH that, if further down the road, he has solid recovery time under his belt and has done the counseling and other items the court required, the restrictions could probably be lifted. He didn't say it, but that was true in the reverse direction, too. When AXH messed up, the restrictions got even stricter. (Well, he messed up big-time and lost all visitation rights.)

So, things are open to change. If the situation changes, the court will re-evaluate to see what's in the best interest of the kids, if the change is brought to their attention.

ladyscribbler

I have found it best to keep in mind what I want without worrying about what he might do/say. He has gone from extreme to extreme- asking for 50/50 custody then saying he just wants visits in the summer and every other Christmas, but if there are any restrictions (supervision, monitored sobriety) then he won't exercise his visitation and will just "talk to DS when he turns 18."
If you think he will be a danger to the kids because of his drinking behavior, then make that THE issue. My ex has thrown all kinds of craziness my way- I was abusive to him, I'm keeping him from having a relationship with our son, his wife doesn't allow alcohol at home so he's "hardly been drinking at all" for the past year (because making rules like that is the cure for alcoholism, lol) and was totally offended when it was suggested that he offer some proof of this. I've stayed steady, asking for the same thing consistently- he not drink during the visits- and offering alternatives (supervision by someone we both agree on, portable breathalyzer, completion of a treatment program). Of course he has rejected all of these options. So now we're going to trial over that single issue, having agreed on everything else.
There's no way to completely avoid future problems, even when you're dealing with someone who is sober and thinking straight. With an alcoholic the crazymaking is pretty much inevitable. All you can do is be clear about what you want and will accept, what you can let go of and what you're willing to fight for.