Lost and looking for guidance to help alcoholic brother
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Chicago IL
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Lost and looking for guidance to help alcoholic brother
I am completely at a loss on how I can help my brother, and whether I even should. He has had 5 DUI convictions, last prison stay lasted 1.5 yrs and he got paroled about half a year ago. He has been lying re his whereabouts, promising me he's not drinking. I come to find out he is drinking, driving w/out license (he has a car somehow!), probably lost another job. A woman from his past is helping him out and called me today about this because she's also at a breaking point.
My brother is a master manipulator and liar, super cocky etc. He has said rehab and prison counselors are a joke, obviously he thinks he's too smart for all of them and is not wanting to change.
After I found the truth today, I gave him an ultimatum to get rid of the car ( I need to see proof) or I will be contacting his parole officer, police because I cannot feel responsible for him drinking and driving....and all in all, I feel safer if he's back behind bars rather than driving. He has been an alcoholic probably 15+ years. He disappears from our lives months at a time.
I guess I am looking for some advise. Can a sister have enough impact to help a brother, who is very manipulative and not willing to change - and if so, how? I am also concerned how it will affect me and my family. I am trying to shield my parents, husband and kids from this mess, because he is capable of bringing everyone down if we allow it.
What should I be doing? Any good advice is greatly appreciated.
My brother is a master manipulator and liar, super cocky etc. He has said rehab and prison counselors are a joke, obviously he thinks he's too smart for all of them and is not wanting to change.
After I found the truth today, I gave him an ultimatum to get rid of the car ( I need to see proof) or I will be contacting his parole officer, police because I cannot feel responsible for him drinking and driving....and all in all, I feel safer if he's back behind bars rather than driving. He has been an alcoholic probably 15+ years. He disappears from our lives months at a time.
I guess I am looking for some advise. Can a sister have enough impact to help a brother, who is very manipulative and not willing to change - and if so, how? I am also concerned how it will affect me and my family. I am trying to shield my parents, husband and kids from this mess, because he is capable of bringing everyone down if we allow it.
What should I be doing? Any good advice is greatly appreciated.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Chicago IL
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As a follow up questions, are there rehab options that would help someone in his state (active alcoholic, manipulating etc.)? Is this something I could talk to his parole officer about or am I on my own? I know good ones are quite expensive and I am not sure I can afford it, but perhaps it won't even be effective?
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I would gently suggest you step back and let his actions reap the consequences that they will reap. This is his problem. If you know that he is driving under the influence at a particular time and location, the police can pull him over, but just a random, "Hey, Tom drinks and drives..." nothing the police can do with this info.
Save yourself. Have you done any reading about friends and family of alcoholics?
Save yourself. Have you done any reading about friends and family of alcoholics?
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Chicago IL
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biminiblue, I have read a lot about friends family - both recently and in the past. My situation is more complex in that I am trying to shield my parents from the stress. I also have guilt issues that if I leave him be, he can die, and then I will not forgive myself for not doing more. The main dilemma is, is distancing myself really the best way to help him? I know this woman is enabling him, I tried to talk her out of it but she is weak, a daughter and ex wife of alcoholics....it's like she thinks it's her job to help him.
There has to be a way to help him, no?
There has to be a way to help him, no?
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I would say that you are taking on way more than is healthy for you.
Your parents have to deal with their own stress, and it's not your job to shield them.
The woman may or may not be enabling him. That's her business.
Trying to help. Are you thinking you can just find a rehab, pay the $40,000, tell him to go - and he will gladly go - then he will come out a new person, healed and sober? It doesn't work that way. If it did, if love could fix alcoholics, there would not be any need for this forum, or for rehab, or for jail. Sadly, the bottom for many may be death. It doesn't sound like any other attempts to reach him have worked. You are not God, you don't have enough power to save him. Allow him the dignity to make his own choices about his life.
Again. Save yourself. Have you been to Al Anon or private counseling? This is not your cross to bear. This is on him. Any attempts to control him are not going to work.
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You cannot cure it.
Your parents have to deal with their own stress, and it's not your job to shield them.
The woman may or may not be enabling him. That's her business.
Trying to help. Are you thinking you can just find a rehab, pay the $40,000, tell him to go - and he will gladly go - then he will come out a new person, healed and sober? It doesn't work that way. If it did, if love could fix alcoholics, there would not be any need for this forum, or for rehab, or for jail. Sadly, the bottom for many may be death. It doesn't sound like any other attempts to reach him have worked. You are not God, you don't have enough power to save him. Allow him the dignity to make his own choices about his life.
Again. Save yourself. Have you been to Al Anon or private counseling? This is not your cross to bear. This is on him. Any attempts to control him are not going to work.
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You cannot cure it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by biminiblue 
I would say that you are taking on way more than is healthy for you.
Your parents have to deal with their own stress, and it's not your job to shield them.
The woman may or may not be enabling him. That's her business.
Trying to help. Are you thinking you can just find a rehab, pay the $40,000, tell him to go - and he will gladly go - then he will come out a new person, healed and sober? It doesn't work that way. If it did, if love could fix alcoholics, there would not be any need for this forum, or for rehab, or for jail. Sadly, the bottom for many may be death. It doesn't sound like any other attempts to reach him have worked. You are not God, you don't have enough power to save him. Allow him the dignity to make his own choices about his life.
Again. Save yourself. Have you been to Al Anon or private counseling? This is not your cross to bear. This is on him. Any attempts to control him are not going to work.
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You cannot cure it.
Your parents have to deal with their own stress, and it's not your job to shield them.
The woman may or may not be enabling him. That's her business.
Trying to help. Are you thinking you can just find a rehab, pay the $40,000, tell him to go - and he will gladly go - then he will come out a new person, healed and sober? It doesn't work that way. If it did, if love could fix alcoholics, there would not be any need for this forum, or for rehab, or for jail. Sadly, the bottom for many may be death. It doesn't sound like any other attempts to reach him have worked. You are not God, you don't have enough power to save him. Allow him the dignity to make his own choices about his life.
Again. Save yourself. Have you been to Al Anon or private counseling? This is not your cross to bear. This is on him. Any attempts to control him are not going to work.
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You cannot cure it.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
megan, if he is unwilling to change, there is literally nothing you can do to give him that desire. The best you can do is protect yourself from the consequences of his choices. Everyone in this situation is a grown adult with free will, and the right to make their own mistakes. The very best way to help other people is to first help yourself. Sending your strength, courage and patience as you come to understand these deep waters of loving an addict.
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Location: Chicago IL
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
megan, if he is unwilling to change, there is literally nothing you can do to give him that desire. The best you can do is protect yourself from the consequences of his choices. Everyone in this situation is a grown adult with free will, and the right to make their own mistakes. The very best way to help other people is to first help yourself. Sending your strength, courage and patience as you come to understand these deep waters of loving an addict.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Aw, Megan, I hear your desperation & I know you're trying so hard to do the right thing.
Your situation is perfectly summed up by one of my favorite (& least favorite) recovery phrases, "You don't have a problem so much as a solution that you don't like."
If professionals & specialists in the field of addiction have not been able to help him, chunks of time in prison have no impact, he's expressing ZERO desire to change or get sober - how in the world do you expect to be able to force him to get help? It's unrealistic, Meg - you set yourself up here to either fail or be a martyr to the situation or both. You end up engaged & entangled in his mess.
IMO, your time is better spent helping your parents get educated about bro's addiction & how they can limit their exposure to it. You can funnel the time & energy you would spend running behind him or cleaning up after him or worrying yourself sick over his decisions into activities with your family & friends instead. There are no limits on the positive ways you can choose to spend your energy, but it is 100% lost when you spend it trying to force change in someone that is resistant.
He is a grown man & unfortunately, he has the right to decide to drink himself to death. Just like you have every right to report him as a drunk driver when you know he's on the roads intoxicated. It's difficult but if you can think of it in terms of giving him the dignity of making his own decisions, it may help. It's up to him to decide if/when he'll be ready for recovery; sometimes you just gotta step aside & let a person fall into their own consequences.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-me-fall.html
Your situation is perfectly summed up by one of my favorite (& least favorite) recovery phrases, "You don't have a problem so much as a solution that you don't like."
If professionals & specialists in the field of addiction have not been able to help him, chunks of time in prison have no impact, he's expressing ZERO desire to change or get sober - how in the world do you expect to be able to force him to get help? It's unrealistic, Meg - you set yourself up here to either fail or be a martyr to the situation or both. You end up engaged & entangled in his mess.
IMO, your time is better spent helping your parents get educated about bro's addiction & how they can limit their exposure to it. You can funnel the time & energy you would spend running behind him or cleaning up after him or worrying yourself sick over his decisions into activities with your family & friends instead. There are no limits on the positive ways you can choose to spend your energy, but it is 100% lost when you spend it trying to force change in someone that is resistant.
He is a grown man & unfortunately, he has the right to decide to drink himself to death. Just like you have every right to report him as a drunk driver when you know he's on the roads intoxicated. It's difficult but if you can think of it in terms of giving him the dignity of making his own decisions, it may help. It's up to him to decide if/when he'll be ready for recovery; sometimes you just gotta step aside & let a person fall into their own consequences.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-me-fall.html
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
I am not a recovering alcoholic so I can't speak about moments of "seeing the light", but I don't see how any human being can possibly predict what another person's bottom might be. It might be that the only way he ever wants to change is if he loses his family. It might be that the only way he ever wants to change is if he loses his socks. It might be that he never wants to change.
The trap for family and loved ones of alcoholics is the idea that if you just try hard enough you will find the magic words, the magic gesture, the magic combination that gives another person the incredible willingness to surrender to their own addiction. One could literally spend their life chasing after this illusion. In the meantime, every time the addict does not change, we count it as a personal failure or shortcoming, forgetting that the other person's addiction never had anything to do with us in the first place.
Life is very short and very precious. If we do not pursue our own health and happiness no one else can do it for us. Maybe the best way to help your brother is to show him that life is worth living, warts and all, it's worth celebrating, and being afraid but doing it anyway. Please don't pin your brother's health and happiness on you. It's not yours -- it never was and never will be. Only he can choose life for himself. Only you can choose it for you.
The trap for family and loved ones of alcoholics is the idea that if you just try hard enough you will find the magic words, the magic gesture, the magic combination that gives another person the incredible willingness to surrender to their own addiction. One could literally spend their life chasing after this illusion. In the meantime, every time the addict does not change, we count it as a personal failure or shortcoming, forgetting that the other person's addiction never had anything to do with us in the first place.
Life is very short and very precious. If we do not pursue our own health and happiness no one else can do it for us. Maybe the best way to help your brother is to show him that life is worth living, warts and all, it's worth celebrating, and being afraid but doing it anyway. Please don't pin your brother's health and happiness on you. It's not yours -- it never was and never will be. Only he can choose life for himself. Only you can choose it for you.
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Location: Upland, CA
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As an alcoholic that has been sober for 16 years and who has a son that will celebrate 15 years at the end of this month, I will assure you that no one gets anyone sober or keeps them sober. It is an inside job. I applaud your love and concern for a family member, but you don't have sufficient power to control the situation, none of us do. I also have a brother who ended up crippled after falling down the stairs drunk and who we had previously sent to 4 very expensive rehabs. He was never ready and still isn't.
My suggestion and that is all it is, let him know that if HE DECIDES he wants help you will be there, however until that day comes if in fact it does, take care of those things that you can control. The system of parole officers and law enforcement exists to deal with the outcome of the chaos that drunks cause. I do have very strong feelings about drunks who drive and as such I suggest that you may want to notify the parole officer and hopefully they can prevent some parent mourning the loss of a child that your brother kills. Yes that part is just that serious.
You should feel no remorse that you can't effect change regarding something over which you have no control. When you are feeling inadequate repeat the following:
"NOT MY CIRCUS, NOT MY MONKEY."
Best wishes,
Jon
My suggestion and that is all it is, let him know that if HE DECIDES he wants help you will be there, however until that day comes if in fact it does, take care of those things that you can control. The system of parole officers and law enforcement exists to deal with the outcome of the chaos that drunks cause. I do have very strong feelings about drunks who drive and as such I suggest that you may want to notify the parole officer and hopefully they can prevent some parent mourning the loss of a child that your brother kills. Yes that part is just that serious.
You should feel no remorse that you can't effect change regarding something over which you have no control. When you are feeling inadequate repeat the following:
"NOT MY CIRCUS, NOT MY MONKEY."
Best wishes,
Jon
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Chicago IL
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Thank you all for taking the time to respond to me. I guess I was ignorant to think I could make a difference.
I will not knowingly allow him to drink and drive, I have told him so, he needs to get rid of the car - he has no license. Other than that, I've stated I need him to get better, and I can help him if and when he is ready, but not before it.
Please keep him in your prayers.
I will not knowingly allow him to drink and drive, I have told him so, he needs to get rid of the car - he has no license. Other than that, I've stated I need him to get better, and I can help him if and when he is ready, but not before it.
Please keep him in your prayers.
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Still drinking
Just wanted to update everyone that my brother is still drinking, and I am dealing with anger and frustration. He is a good person at heart, but the alcoholism turns him into a lying, irresponsible @sshole.
Last I saw him was Christmas, he actually showed up this year - but his pupils were dilated the whole team which means he was going through withdrawal. I heard from the woman that he is with that he started drinking again big time, lost his job. He is a very proud and cocky individual, thinks he's too good to work for someone.
Feeling so frustrated.
I am wondering how many more times he can go through withdrawals until his body fails him? His eyes are yellowish, his hands shake, he looks 15+ years older, his stomach is protruded - surely he has liver issues.
He's one of those ppl that manage to surround himself with the scum of the earth, has a way of complicating everything and then complains life is hard.
Last I saw him was Christmas, he actually showed up this year - but his pupils were dilated the whole team which means he was going through withdrawal. I heard from the woman that he is with that he started drinking again big time, lost his job. He is a very proud and cocky individual, thinks he's too good to work for someone.
Feeling so frustrated.
I am wondering how many more times he can go through withdrawals until his body fails him? His eyes are yellowish, his hands shake, he looks 15+ years older, his stomach is protruded - surely he has liver issues.
He's one of those ppl that manage to surround himself with the scum of the earth, has a way of complicating everything and then complains life is hard.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Sorry to hear about your brother. There is a lot of help available for him when and if he decides that he wants to get sober. While he still wants to live as he is, nothing will be able to help him. It must be heartbreaking. I suppose you could collect a pack together of numbers, days and times of resources so you have it to hand if that comes where he DOES want to get sober, but also acceptance that you may never see that day is what will keep you sane.
I would recommend going along to AlAnon and getting some support, and your parents as well ideally - you don't need to shield them. They can get help as well and you can do this together for yourselves, but not for each other. I suspect that you will feel much better once you have reached a state of acceptance about this.
As someone else said (but with my emphases)...
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You cannot cure it.
Hoping that you and your parents find the help to stop you becoming part of your brothers 'wreckage' any more than is possible.
I would recommend going along to AlAnon and getting some support, and your parents as well ideally - you don't need to shield them. They can get help as well and you can do this together for yourselves, but not for each other. I suspect that you will feel much better once you have reached a state of acceptance about this.
As someone else said (but with my emphases)...
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You cannot cure it.
Hoping that you and your parents find the help to stop you becoming part of your brothers 'wreckage' any more than is possible.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,254
I'm with others who say let him suffer the consequences of his actions. I'm too familiar with a alkie/addict with duis, master manipulator and works seniors like a predator/conman.
Sounds like he has been at this a while. Just the shear amount of time devoted to drinking & getting high/buzzed makes change difficult for those that don't want to change or work at it.
I'd say lay out some facts or information to your parents about addiction including what to watch for or how alkies/addicts behave. Trying to bare the burden yourself in secret won't do any good. You need allies in your fight. Also if he has had 5 dui convictions it sounds like he's had at least 5 chances from the legal system and probably got just as many from family. Most say now one has to hit a wall or bottom for incentive to change their ways.
Good Luck, Stay Safe!
Sounds like he has been at this a while. Just the shear amount of time devoted to drinking & getting high/buzzed makes change difficult for those that don't want to change or work at it.
I'd say lay out some facts or information to your parents about addiction including what to watch for or how alkies/addicts behave. Trying to bare the burden yourself in secret won't do any good. You need allies in your fight. Also if he has had 5 dui convictions it sounds like he's had at least 5 chances from the legal system and probably got just as many from family. Most say now one has to hit a wall or bottom for incentive to change their ways.
Good Luck, Stay Safe!
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