jjj111

So this is OT, but you guys always have such great insight, and in a way this is a recovery question about healthy boundaries and negotiating difficult relationships. I am in a workplace where there is a lot of pressure around promotion, and younger people are encouraged to choose an older coworker to be their mentor.

So a couple years ago I asked a woman, R, to be my mentor. Not long afterward, I became pregnant and then had a miscarriage. R was very supportive during the pregnancy, but became much less supportive after the miscarriage when I realized that the stress of it all and all the doctor's appointments had put me behind and I needed an extension on applying for promotion. She tried to prevent me from even asking for the extension, and after I went to my supervisor (basically over her head) and received the extension, she started to distance herself in a kind of passive aggressive way. She acts friendly to my face and says we should find time to meet, but then drops the ball on making plans or cancels at the last minute.

I think there is really more to it than just that she thought I made the wrong decision by asking for the extension. I have the impression that she is threatened by younger women, and she also shared some things before she became distant about a miscarriage she suffered that was very painful--so maybe this all struck a nerve somehow.

Anyway, I am now pregnant again (woohoo! I've been meaning to share the news with my SR pals, I will write a separate post about that at some point) and so I'm really in need of a mentor to help me negotiate maternity leave . And I know that the senior people in my workplace expect me to have a mentor--I'm not sure if she has told anyone that she's not willing to play that role. She certainly hasn't told me, but when I wrote to tell her I was pregnant today and ask if she wanted to meet, she wrote me a two line e-mail saying congrats and she hopes I'm well. Nothing about meeting. I'm so frustrated! Partly I guess it's my own disappointment because I looked up to her at some point as a sort of mother figure (my own Mom was an alcoholic and has passed away) and I was probably on some level hoping for some validation from her. But I also just don't know how to handle this passive aggressiveness from someone in a position of power over me! Should I just take the hint and ask someone else to mentor me? I'm afraid she'll then take it as an insult!

Should I try to confront the elephant in the room? I did sort of do that--I wrote her back and asked if she's able to meet, said I would be happy to chat with her, no worries if she's too busy, but I know that I'm expected to have a mentor and sure I can figure something out, but don't want to make any assumptions about her availability. The truth is, though, after the way she's acted I don't really want to continue to work with her. But I'm afraid to make that call and insult her. So we'll see if/how she replies.

Sigh. I guess I partly just needed to write this out. I'm happy to hear if you have any suggestions about how to deal with a difficult/passive-aggressive authority figure!

biminiblue

I learned in the workplace that too-personal discussions are not a good idea. The pregnancy talk is better to be shared with personal support people, like friends and family.

Can you talk to HR about the pregnancy leave? They would be the ones to give you information on this. I would keep the mentorship relationship to strictly professional tasks and projects.

Sounds like time to choose a new mentor. I don't necessarily think a formal mentorship is a good idea, unless it develops naturally - but that's just my take on it. I guess I would send an email to her so it's official, something to the effect of, "Thank you for all your past help, it was invaluable. I wish you the best with future mentorships."

knowthetriggers

I am confused - is she your mentor or your boss? In my company just because you have seniority does not mean anyone reports to you, etc. You mentioned you went over her head so that is why I ask.

If she is not your boss then I would move on for sure. She doesn't seem to have much interest in being your mentor. If she is offended then that is her problem.

If she is your boss then HR is your next step, IMO.

I have to agree with biminiblue, keep it professional.

jjj111

Thanks for your thoughts! I am a professor, and the chain of command is always very confusing, partly because all of the people in my department who are more senior than me get to vote about whether to promote me, yikes! It's like everyone has authority over me, but no one is really my boss. That's why I went to the dean after the miscarriage. I wanted to talk to someone who had the authority to help me, and who would deal with me in confidence. If I hadn't gone to him, my other option would have been to ask all the senior people in my department as a group for an extension, which really would have been embarrassing! So my reasons for doing that were really reasonable, I thought. But she probably felt a little undermined.

I really do regret letting the personal/professional lines get blurred. She was so kind of aggressive about offering her help when she found out I was pregnant the first time, but then it got really weird when I miscarried.

Anyway, you guys are right, I do think it's time to move on! Maybe my fussing about how she would react is a case of me trying to fix other people's feelings? I guess it has also been hard for me to take the rejection because I did think of her as a friend at some point. Maybe I'm being a little passive aggressive by trying to get a straight answer out of her?

biminiblue

So, is it "required" that you have a mentor? By whom? The Dean? If so, then ask the Dean to appoint someone, if it's his/her rule.

I wouldn't worry about how the ex-mentor takes it. Just put it in an email, be gracious and grateful, and don't talk about her to anyone else. I find if I don't try to read peoples' minds, and if I don't gossip about them, I feel much better about myself. What other people think and do is none of my business.

She's gonna do what she's gonna do. This is all going to blow over.

jjj111

Thanks, Bimini! "What other people think of me is none of my business" has been a huge recovery issue for me, and one I'm clearly still working on!

The requirement comes from the department. I'm meeting with the new chair of my department next week (that's another part of the chain of command confusion--the chair changes nearly every year!), so I guess I could ask then whether they still want me to have a mentor and if so whether she would like to appoint one or if I should seek someone out. I guess if she asks, I will have to tell her that the ex-mentor has been busy and I haven't seen her in a while, but I'll try to leave it at that. And I a going to make a conscious effort not to gripe about the ex-mentor to any of my coworkers.

I think that professoional/personal boundary is another thing I need to work on. It gets especially blurry at a university because so many of us relocated here for the job and rely on each other for support, myself included. But it will really save me a lot of trouble and worry if I can work on not worrying about what people think and not gossiping about them!!

biminiblue

If she asks (about the ex-mentor) can't you just say, "It wasn't a good fit." I think if you say the mentor was too busy, it might reflect badly on the ex-mentor.

There's no reason to make stuff up. If the ex-mentor says she's too busy, that's one thing. If she just doesn't seem to be interested, then I would sever the official mentoring relationship on good terms. Obviously I don't understand the nuances of your department and the consequences of this mentorship not working out, nor do I even understand being required to have one

I do know that trying to put it on the mentor when it sounds like the two of you have simply reached an impasse is not a good thing to do, politically. I would give her a glowing review and express a need to move on without the gory details.

If it were me and it was just, "[We] are encouraged to have a mentor." I would just say I'll keep looking for a good fit...then I wouldn't look all that hard.

jjj111

That's an interesting point, I hadn't thought of it that way. I can see what you mean that "she's been busy" sounds like a criticism. I guess I worry if "not a good fit" implies that there has been a disagreement and might invite more questions? Sigh, I will have to think about how to put it without casting blame. What about "we've both been so busy that I haven't seen her in a while"? Or "she's been great, I just thought maybe it was time for a fresh perspective"? Any ideas are welcome! And I don't really understand the purpose of having a mentor either! I think it's the department's effort to give junior people a better way to communicate with senior people, but it's mostly just been trouble for me.

biminiblue

From where I sit it sounds like a way for the head of the department to deflect questions from new people onto tenured people. I guess it's a good idea in theory, but if it isn't required, I wouldn't be on board with it at all. It sets up a confusing chain of command, like you said. I would think anyone tenured would be willing to answer general questions or refer you to the department head. Maybe don't bring it up and just leave it alone?

Do you really need one? Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.

jjj111

Thanks, bimini, I really appreciate getting an outside perspective!! You're right, I was just thinking this. Maybe it's best to just let sleeping dogs lie. I really don't feel the need for a mentor. I would have been interested in the ex-mentor's advice on maternity leave if she felt up to giving it and motivated to be helpful, but I think I have other people I can talk to, and the chair seems willing to talk about it. I think maybe I flew off the handle a little when the ex-mentor sent me that terse e-mail today. It made it crystal clear that she really doesn't want anything to do with me, when I wasn't really sure before, and I sort of panicked and started wanting to force the issue. I wish now that I hadn't replied to her email, but I guess it's too late to take it back. But you're right, I think I will just let it go. If they bring it up, we'll deal with it, but until then I will focus on my work and enjoying my pregnancy. There are registries to fill out, and itty bitty baby clothes to buy!

CodeJob

Hello Jjj,

Congrats on a being pregnant! I hope you both remain healthy in the coming weeks and months!

I work in academia. Where I work, there are still a lot of cultural issues about pregnancy. Many women still try to work like a man and act like the pregnancy doesn't impact their work whatsoever. There is a lot of talk about shoe-horning kids into a tight window of time. A lot of women take a year of research and pop out a kid! To be fair though, you can't necessarily get pregnant in a set window. Not that I haven't tried it (I was 5 months off)!

So it could be this is the culture this slightly older woman was trying to get you to follow. You were pregnant, but not even your grief should have impacted your promotion. Because old school is that Ginger Rogers saying about she did everything Astaire did - but it in heels and backwards...

This isn't right, but in the path to equality, a lot of women have paid some steep dues and their family or lack thereof may have suffered.

jjj111

Ha, Codejob, it's so true, so many of the older women in my department have that attitude that we should all be like Ginger Rogers! It's a funny thing, but the older men in the department actually seem to be much more forgiving of the fact that motherhood affects the tenure clock. And I totally know what you mean about trying to find a window in your career for childbearing! It's such a relentless rat race until you get tenure. I'm 41, and have put off having kids or even having a relationship because I needed to focus on my career and be prepared to move where work took me. (Of course, dating addicts hasn't helped me to find a lasting relationship, either!) I finally decided when I turned 40 that it was make or break time and started trying to conceive with an anonymous donor. I would have preferred to wait until I got tenure, but was afraid it would be too late! Anyway, I got lucky and am pregnant by a donor at 41, and hopefully the meaningful relationship will come later. But I guess it's especially hurtful to feel unsupported by colleagues about my decision to try for a baby when I have for so long sacrificed my family goals for work. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. You've reminded me that it's not really personal, probably more just about the culture of my workplace.

Ursula745

I have not read the other posts so forgive me if you've moved on from what I am saying here.

1. Where are you located? I can't imagine a mentor being the one to direct you on maternity leave. that should be standard, IMO. I don't know why maternity leave is negotiable.
2. You asked about her being passive aggressive. IMO, you are, too. You asked if SHE would like to meet. She doesn't nee to, but you do. Why didn't you asked her if you could meet with her? If you want to meet with her, tell her you want to meet with her. Don't ask her if she wants to.

Anyway, I'm sorry about your miscarriage, and congrats on your pregnancy That's great news!

And, after reading more of the info from your posts, I'd move on from her. She seems flaky to me.

jjj111

You're right, Ursula. I need to work on asking more directly for what I need. I think I do sometimes behave in a passive aggressive way with authority figures. I guess I was also feeling kind of beaten down because the ex-mentor kept blowing me off. But direct communication is always more effective!

FireSprite

I think this is the heart of it right here, jjj - I think you are right that the miscarriage triggered her & everything else is just her poor reaction to it.

I don't want to assume reasons or her feelings around it all but I know how emotional fertility & family vs. career tug of wars can be for women so I think *I* would chalk it up to: "This is about HER, not ME. There's nothing for me TO fix about it." Like bimini suggested, handling the mentorship best from your end through the chain of "command" (which sounds complicated) is the right way to focus on it.

Congratulations!!!!!!

jjj111

Thanks, Firesprite, I appreciate that! I am going to keep telling myself that this is not about me and not something I could fix if I tried. Her actions really do seem pretty irrational to me, so it seems very likely that there's something deeper going on!