PerSe

Hi,

Thanks in advance if you're reading my post here! I just registered last week and this is my first post besides the intro. I am hoping to gain perspective on my situation by hearing any thoughts you may have and wish to share. I'll try to give an abridged version of my story for brevity's sake, but I will gladly share more detail if helpful.

I have been married to my husband for 16+ years. When we got together back in the late 90s, we drank together a lot, beer and wine mostly. I told myself it was just a phase - how naive I see now- but gosh we were just having so much fun. We drank pretty much every week day after work and a LOT more on the weekends. This continued through our marriage until we had children about eight years ago which is when I began to slow down. By sheer white knuckle will power I was able to not drink during my two pregnancies (I was not ready to give it up - not fun!!) but DH never slowed down. In fact, after our first baby was born, he had run an errand from the hospital and came back smelling like beer. Unfortunately that's the memory that sticks with me most.

I'm leaving out lots of detail here but fast forward to one year ago - I stopped drinking completely. (It's been a rough year but I am so grateful now to be sober.) At that time I also had several short but very intense conversations where I told my husband I was not okay with the amount he was drinking. He has cut back a lot over the last year but he does still drink.

Here's my dilemma - every weekend Friday or Saturday night he will drink about one six-pack and one bottle of wine, sometimes more. The next day he is hung over and usually not feeling too great. As I understand it, this amount of alcohol would be considered binge drinking. Then he will abstain for the next work week, but to me it just feels like he is leading up to the next weekend where he can drink again. He does drink at home and mostly after the kids are in bed. I should add that he is a great dad. Since he only drinks one night a week am I making too big of a deal about it?

I've left so much nuance out of this, but I am bothered deeply by the long term heavy drinking even now that he has cut back. I thank you for reading and appreciate any thoughts you may offer.

PerSe

happybeingme

Hi Perse, Welcome to the forum. Congrats on your sobriety. A year is awesome. I am a wife, mom and have a little over four years sobriety myself. You have given yourself and your family the greatest gift by getting sober.

My experience with binge drinkers is they can be alcoholics no matter how infrequently they drink. It has to do with craving and the ability to stop once they start. Not how often they drink. I knew a woman who was a binge alcoholic who could go months without a drink. She was still an alcoholic.

I don't like to give advice. I find it more helpful when I can share personal experience. So, I think it would be good for you to find support for yourself for both your sobriety and for living with an active alcoholic. Check out all of the forums here. Participate and learn more about your illness and how to learn to live a good life whether or not your husband quits. I am rather a quiet and private person but support in dealing with my alcoholism has been essential in my continued sobriety.

Again, Welcome and I hope you stick around.

honeypig

Hi, PerSe, and welcome to SR. Congrats on your sobriety and also on having the courage to reach out for help.

Regarding your question about your hub's drinking--I think most here will tell you that problem drinking isn't measured by how much alcohol and how often, so much as it's measured by whether or not it's a problem for any of the people involved. If the drinking causes a problem for you, then it's a problem--simple enough.

As happybeingme said, it's a good idea to take some time and read around the forums as well as checking out the stickies at the top of the page. There are many different stories and situations, and you'll likely see aspects of your own life in some.

Alanon would probably be a good idea for you too--they are a great resource for education and support. Some folks like Celebrate Recovery instead. Having a face-to-face group and SR online has been tremendously helpful for me.

I wish you strength and clarity as you enter this new phase of your recovery.

PerSe

Hi happybeingme,

Thank you for your reply. Wow, four years! That is inspiring. I appreciate your insight on binge drinking. In the past this was sometimes me too. I have used the analogy that if I was a car I would have very unreliable brakes - sometimes they work but sometimes they just don't.

I will definitely keep reading. I look forward to learning more. Thanks again.

PerSe

PerSe

Hi honeypig,

Thanks for your reply. I will definitely keep reading more here. I'll look into celebrate recovery and try out alanon again. I have attended a few meetings in the past but somehow let it go.

I hear that only I can determine whether hub's drinking a problem and that if it's a prob for me then it's a prob. I understand that in concept but do still wrestle with that though. The thing is he has cut wayyyyy back over the last year, back to his one night a week. In some way I feel like it isn't so much of a prob - he's a good dad, not abusive. But I just feel so emotionally distant for days after he drinks. It is saddening to me.

Thanks for listening and for your reply. I look forward to reading and learning more.

PerSe

honeypig

I get this, PerSe. Boy, do I get this. My XAH was always a very secret drinker--in fact, I had no idea he was drinking behind my back, and paying for it out of our savings, for the first 13 years of our marriage. Part of the reason I never questioned it was that no, he was NOT abusive (at least not in the way I defined abuse then), he held a steady job, he fixed things around the house, and he was a good companion much of the time. Things were "not that bad."

However, the emotional distancing you mention was getting worse and worse. He'd seldom remember things we'd talked about, and if I mentioned it, he'd say "well, I guess that wasn't important enough for me to commit to memory." Once, when I'd suggested he look into counseling for some problems he was having at work, he told me "no, no counseling, b/c what if I get better and I find out I don't like it here?" He'd be working in his airplane modeling studio, his hobby, and say he'd be down in a bit and we'd spend the afternoon together; then he'd never show, claiming to have been hung up w/some painting or decal work that couldn't be put down half finished when in reality he was drinking and couldn't/wouldn't stop.

Things like that hurt. A lot. And then he'd complain that we didn't have sex, that we weren't close, that he wasn't a priority in my life, and for a long time I felt that I was at least partly at fault for that when in reality he was the one who was becoming more and more preoccupied w/drinking and less and less available. Later I learned about how A's will turn their own shortcomings around to focus on us, the spouse/partner/etc., and that's exactly what was going on. I just didn't know any better at the time.

Don't minimize what's going on as "just" emotional distancing. It's important! Is this what you want from a marriage? Is this what you want your kids to see as "normal"? Please don't think I'm saying you should leave him, or that you should do anything at all; I'm just saying that when you're tempted to write things off as not a big deal, maybe ask yourself those questions, or do the classic test--if a friend told you this story, what would you say to her?

Let me also say that, just b/c you are seeing him drinking less, that doesn't necessarily mean he really is drinking less. A's are incredibly ingenious in hiding their alcohol consumption; it is more than possible that he in fact has not cut down but is just hiding it better.

I'm glad to see you're returning to post and read, and I hope you continue to do so. You'll eventually find your path, and you'll find the strength to follow it, too.

LexieCat

Hi, and congrats from me, too, on your sober time. I just celebrated seven years of sobriety.

It's hard to say whether your husband is an alcoholic or not, but the point is that his drinking is affecting your relationship. I think you would benefit a whole lot from Al-Anon and/or AA. You first have to protect your own sobriety at all costs. There is a tendency in many of us to eventually get worn down and feel like "If we can't beat 'em, join 'em." Your kids might be enough to keep you sober for right now, but what happens when they grow up and move away?

It also sounds like you are dealing with a lot of resentment, and the Steps in Al-Anon and AA can help you deal with those.

And stick around here--there's a lot of collective wisdom and support here.

Hugs,

PerSe

Thank you! Yes I can identify with a lot of what you say here. I have found 20 oz beer cans wrapped up hidden in our recycle can (I wasn't even looking - I thought it was a non-recyclable and went to move it... Anywho, this has happened twice that I know of) and it has occurred to me that he could be drinking more than what i observe. I do feel mostly concerned about the relationship dynamic that we are modeling for our two children (5 & 8). Our interactions have become so dry and tense. It feels like he is so resentful that I have stopped drinking and expressed concern over his drinking.

Gotta run, Thank you so much for your insights.

PerSe

maia1234

PS- Welcome,
Good for you for reaching out and trying to educate yourself about alcoholism. If you reach out to Alanon, you will find that it really doesn't matter about how much or how often. What really matters is about you. You know the program and have stopped drinking, good for you. As your kids deserve 1 healthy parent. As you already know, alcoholism is progressive. It only gets worse. So accepting this little bit today, will accept a little bit next month. This is what the A's in our life do. Slowly, meticulously, so you don't even recognize it is happening.

You will learn from here and alanon that you can detach, and set up boundaries that you will need to keep you and your kids safe. You will change on how you perceive him and enable him. There is a lot you can do, to make yourself a healthier wife and mother. Keep reading and check out the new to recover and alcoholism forum and see what is going on there. There is help for you if you want it.
Hugs my friend!!

PerSe

Lexiecat,

What you have said here about protecting my sobriety at all costs has hit me in a powerful way. Thank you, because yes while I have been able to stay sober for one year now I have often been tempted by that very phrase "if you can't beat 'em join 'em". And when I consider our long term relationship together it is really hard for me to feel like I will be able to maintain sobriety since drinking alcohol seems to be a core part of who he is. Thank you x 100 for bringing this issue to the forefront for me. Only just last weekend we were on a family camping trip - he had a 12-pack and I thought hell I should just relax a little and have one or two. I didn't, but that thought was so there.

I attended a few aa meetings about this time last year and just stopped going. Hub thinks AA is a crock and I could somehow feel his silent scoffing at me going so I allowed that to dissuade me from going. I have been in therapy for over a year now now but yes I see now that protecting my long term sobriety is absolutely essential.

Thank you.

PerSe

LexieCat

One of the things that will benefit you most, overall, is taking care of yourself. It isn't selfish--you need to be "there" for your kids, as well as for yourself. Working on things like good boundaries and detachment will help immeasurably. Let your husband scoff. Don't argue or defend it, just do it.

Be prepared for anything you do along the lines of protecting your own sobriety or dealing with the effects of his drinking to be taken by him as a personal insult. Again, don't argue about it. Just do what you need to do, and let him take it however he takes it.

HoldOnLoosely

Congratulations to you on your sobriety! You have gotten a lot of wonderful advice so far.

My husband was a binge drinker. Mostly weekends. Sometimes, a drink or two on the weekdays. I never knew the full extent of it until one late evening last October. He walked through the door from a business trip in NYC. Shoulders slumped, he sat on the couch and told me a scare he had from drinking. He went to the hotel bar. Blacked out. Later, he was awakened by the bartender. He got up to leave and realized he was at a different bar...across the street from his hotel. He had no recollection of how he got there. Somehow, he managed to cross a busy NYC street...unscathed.

That evening, he admitted the extent of his drinking - the blackouts (multiple), the approximate number of binges and so forth. I never knew any of it. It was completely hidden from me. He drank on business trips and late evenings after the kids and I went to sleep.

His drinking had crossed the line from healthy to unhealthy. His moderate drinking led to a deep 6-8 month plunge into alcoholism. It was sudden. More and more alcohol with his binges. Difficulty stopping after one drink. Never knowing with certainty whether he would (or could) stop after one drink or spiral down and drink, drink, drink. He thought he could moderate his drinking. Control it. It didn't work. He struggled. He finally joined AA and stopped in January. He'll be 8 months sober in September.

Looking back, his drinking did impact our relationship. I just didn't know it. I thought his distractedness, tiredness and "out of it" on the weekend was due to exhaustion from his intense travel and work hours. It was a combination of both.

I have come to appreciate the differences in everyone's experiences on this forum...and yet the similarities. I hope this helps in some way. I wish you the best.

JOIE12

Alanon helped me to understand what was in my control. 'ME'
I learned to cope with the daily upsets and disappointments without yelling or acting angry. Tears were in a room alone.
I also learned to detach with love. At the end of a year I looked around the room and realized with new eyes that everyone there was divorced or divorcing. I asked them all what good this program was if that seemed to be the end result.

there was silence

It changed us. The alcoholic could choose to continue as they were. And we could too but most found the strength and confidence with clearer thinking - to lay a boundary. I began my divorce 6 years later, completely at peace.

He passed away in the spring of this year. His health had suffered.

I wish you great success with your recovery both personally and with your marriage. Hugs

gleefan

PerSe - Your story is really similar to mine. I've been sober a year and a half. My husband was my drinking buddy and my stopping drinking created a huge rift in our relationship. Like your husband mine has cut back significantly, but like you that one or two nights a week left me feeling angry and distant.

I go to AA, and I post on the alcoholism side of SR. I started going to AlAnon around 13 months sober. I also reach out on this forum when I'm trying to sort out my marriage. There are many wise, helpful people on this area of SR!

Protecting my sobriety is priority number one, too! In recovery I'm learning how to take care of myself, respect my boundaries, and advocate for how I need to be treated.

emilynghiem

Dear PerSe
Whatever amount or pattern it is,
what concerns me is if he is either escaping, suppressing or self-medicating. People have different ways of either dealing with inner conflicts or issues we carry from the past, or diverting and distracting ourselves. I learned the hard way it can be the silent sufferers who hide the worst symptoms.

I am not sure this can be judged by how "much" someone does or does not drink or have another habit. What gives them away to me is how they respond when asked. if they hide, deny, justify, or project blame, then it is the AVOIDANCE that is the problem. If they express more fear, shame, or negative feelings that get in the way of really talking freely and working things out. That barrier from fear of judgment has to come down first, from my experience trying to connect and work with people beyond what is showing outside.

Instead of focusing on just the drinking itself, I would look deeper in if he has insecurity issues, authority/control issues, depression, old conflicts he never fully resolved where he is at peace and feels self-confident. If you can encourage him to open up and talk about what makes him feel: fear, stress, anxiety, discomfort, anything that worries him or makes him feel isolated, inferior, unable to overcome, etc. then that is may reveal the key to breaking any abusive pattern.

Forgiveness has a transformative effect that can break through these barriers, if you can find what issue may be the root cause, and encourage forgiveness and letting go of it. Then all the other emotions attached, and behavior patterns associated with that problem will also be released over time as more and more forgiveness is experienced.

I'm on here because I recently found out a friend was keeping more problems private, and I didn't find out until it was too late to help.

I cannot express enough the value of making sure people feel loved, accepted and forgiven no matter WHAT is making them feel insecure, or a burden on others if they have depression or other problems they are afraid to share. if they feel judged for responding by drinking, they may hide their problems more. The forgiveness and confidence to open up and talk about the root fears is the first step, and the rest can be corrected without feeling judged for it.

I would first focus on creating a safe healing environment AROUND the person so they feel free to open up and share whatever it is they are going through, that might otherwise make them hide or suppress their feelings and thus cause other problem behaviors as a result.

PS if he feels your success makes him feel inferior or a failure in comparison, this may cause him to self-sabotage even more to justify why he has worse problems and isn't where you are. If so, if you think he feels guilty or bad "compared with you" then a more sympathetic NONjudgmental approach might lessen this barrier. If he feels you are judging him as not as successful as you, that may cause more conflicts and preference to run and hide and pretend he doesn't have a problem.

Again this is why I focus on the inner dynamics, that make us all equal.
Everyone I know has carried issues from our family past, or our past romantic or work relations, so we are all going through recovery in this sense. Nobody is in any position to "point the finger" at anyone else; when we realize we are in the same boat together, it is easier to open up and share as EQUALS not as one person being better off than another which can be intimidating or embarrassing and cause people to shut down, run and hide (again like my friend might have done, afraid to be a burden or to feel like a failure).

If he understands you approach this like "everyone has personal problems in one form or another" and you DON'T judge him any harder than you would yourself, this may help avoid putting him on the "defensive."

I would avoid the comparison game, which all people tend to do, but it is a recipe for misery. Nobody's path in life can be compared with others, we all do that trying to learn and grow, but when it starts getting judgmental, it can seriously harm us and our relationships trying to compare people who are on different stages and paths in life.

PerSe

emilynghiem,

Thank you for this reply. Yes, I can see what you are saying about the underlying inner issues. DH and I both come from dysfunctional homes, and I know there is a lot of pain from his childhood. I will do my best to create that environment of love and acceptance that you describe. I do not want to cause him to feel judged.

This last weekend, I got the courage to speak my mind - I had been holding so much in. I tried to say everything in a non-judgmental way, while still being honest. The main thing I said was "would you consider figuring out and setting a healthy limit for yourself when drinking?". The other thing I said that I am kind of regretting now was to let him know that his drinking was the main thing that I worry about. It may have been too much but I just needed to him to know that because he thinks I have anxiety over other issues - I needed him to know the truth about why I feel the way I do. That was all Saturday morning, and he has acted practically hostile to me ever since. At this point I am uncertain on how our relationship will go. 16 years and here we are.

Thanks again for your reply.

PerSe

honeypig

PerSe, can I gently point out that "setting a healthy limit" on drinking is exactly what an alcoholic cannot do, no way, no how? If they could control how much they drank, they wouldn't be alcoholics.

Moderation is the dream of every active alcoholic, or so I'm told. But that is all it is, is a dream.

If you've read around the forum, you've probably seen a ton of posts by sad, disappointed partners of A's who've extracted exactly that same promise from their A, only to see it blown away in a month, a week, or a day...

PerSe

Hi honeypig,

Thank you for these thoughts. I truly do understand what you are saying. I asked him to consider setting limits because I did not want to come out and say "hon, I think you are an alcoholic." I have always thought that is something an alcoholic must discover or realize on their own. I guess I asked him to set limits knowing it would ultimately not work but because I thought he would need to see that for himself. My intentions were good, but I'm not sure it was right. He seems so angry with me since Saturday morning and I honestly do not know how to navigate these waters from here.

I hear you on the dream of moderation - I have had that dream myself, heck I tried it, and I proved to myself that it is not possible. My brakes work for a while then they stop working. I should make my username "bad brakes". Haha anyway, I just don't know how to have this conversation with my DH. Open to any and all suggestions. Thank you!!

emilynghiem

Hi PerSe I think you being honest with him is what he needs. When you are honest and express your fears and insecurities, he can feel safe to share with you as well. If you can talk about how different things do make you feel anxious, but this one concerns you the most because (1) you went through it and know how hard it is and how much support it takes (2) you know it can be overcome so of course you don't want him to suffer needlessly when you understand.

Then it can lead to him opening up and
admitting, as someone else pointed out, that neither you nor he could manage it without additional help. The problem is bigger than just the person, and is never solved by going at it alone. The pressures behind the addiction come from collective sources, so it takes a support network to resolve all these things and take the pressure off so you can think straight and work through it.

Because you have managed through the harder stages at the beginning, you can show him you reaching out to him is out of support, concern and experience, knowing this isn't a one-man show. It took you a lot of extra support to get past the worst of it, so you sympathize with him and don't want him to feel burdened, judged and hopeless either, if that is what you went through as well.

I think you have a good chance of connecting with him, and letting him support you too in addressing the different things causing anxiety. Just because there are other things you are worried about, doesn't mean this one isn't the most critical and worrisome. It is. So agree with him that of course there are other issues connected. And that's why it takes a support network and isn't something you or he can solve on your own. Use his understanding to explain how the same thing applies to both of you; if he can see what you are going through, maybe you can explain that's why you want to make sure he gets the right support also, as that is what it took you to get past the worst of it.

Keep looking for those openings for sharing and connecting. When he tries to criticize you, try to find creative ways to show you share the same concerns about him so it is mutual, and you can help each other make it through this. If you are not afraid of change and improvement, this may help him let go of fear that you are trying to change and focus on him instead of dealing with yourself. Let him know the concerns are mutual, and there are ways to work together to support and lift each other up, and the point is not to judge or bring either person down.

Best wishes and I hope and pray he does open up to you more, and gain a sense that "you are on his side." May you continue to find more positive insights to share, and renew strength and trust to make it through, putting the worst of the past behind you and looking forward to better days to come. Please take care and know that you have my warmest thoughts and prayers of support. More hugs, more love, more power to you, more understanding, wisdom and compassion, and less fear and stress. Yours truly, Emily

gleefan

PerSe

I'm going to weigh in with my personal experience here. I've spent months upon months trying to help my husband understand what I came to realize when I stopped drinking -- that he has a drinking problem and that maybe he didn't treat me so well.

Honestly, though, our conversations where I shared my feelings spun in circles. I came to the friends and family side of SR for others' experience,strength and hope, for practical advice on what to do.

What I'm learning is that the answer isn't about him at all. It's all about me. I show other people how to treat me. People's actions will show me who they are. I can determine what I will accept. If my values change or evolve, as they did when I decided to stop drinking, I don't need to accept what's no longer acceptable to me.
Early recovery is such a sensitive time. Single people are counseled not to get into a relationship for a year, but long time sober people will tell you that the reason the common wisdom isn't 5 years is because then no one would want to get sober and wait that long! Most people will share that it wasn't til around the 5 year mark that they felt truly emotionally sober.

At 18 months sober, I'm getting there. From a position of strength in myself, the next right thing to do is clearer than it was when I first stopped drinking. These days my husband is more receptive to my sobriety than he's ever been, but my sponsor continues to advise me to focus on my own growth, and not let my happiness hinge on any relationship.

This is just my experience. Hope it helps!