“Love” an Alcoholic?
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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“Love” an Alcoholic?
Multi-year struggle that does not look like it's going to end well.
Lost jobs, DUIs, lying (of course), head/face injuries from falling, verbal abuse, in and out of rehab, etc. Text book stuff. People here know what I'm talking about. Yet, I still love her*.
She’s not stupid and admits she’s killing herself and wants to stop. Unfortunately, she seems incapable of doing so.
Family doesn't really know and we don't have any friends. I tried al-anon, not for me. Went to a therapist, didn't really help.
I know it's a disease, I can't fix her, need to take care of myself, yada, yada. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I've been living this for a long time...
I’m a long-time reader, first-time poster. Many of the stories are here are far more heartbreaking than mine, but it certainly feels like we’re all in the same boat (actually, it's more like a life raft!).
*Love is a tricky one here. To be honest, if it wasn’t for extended family commitments I probably would have left her years ago. So maybe I’m just fooling (lying to) myself about “loving” her. Can you really love someone you don’t like being around most of the time? Or is it familiarity (10+ years) plus fear of change that blinds me to the reality of the situation? Anyway, at the very least I do care very much about her and watching her self-destruct is extremely difficult.
Thanks for listening!
Lost jobs, DUIs, lying (of course), head/face injuries from falling, verbal abuse, in and out of rehab, etc. Text book stuff. People here know what I'm talking about. Yet, I still love her*.
She’s not stupid and admits she’s killing herself and wants to stop. Unfortunately, she seems incapable of doing so.
Family doesn't really know and we don't have any friends. I tried al-anon, not for me. Went to a therapist, didn't really help.
I know it's a disease, I can't fix her, need to take care of myself, yada, yada. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I've been living this for a long time...
I’m a long-time reader, first-time poster. Many of the stories are here are far more heartbreaking than mine, but it certainly feels like we’re all in the same boat (actually, it's more like a life raft!).
*Love is a tricky one here. To be honest, if it wasn’t for extended family commitments I probably would have left her years ago. So maybe I’m just fooling (lying to) myself about “loving” her. Can you really love someone you don’t like being around most of the time? Or is it familiarity (10+ years) plus fear of change that blinds me to the reality of the situation? Anyway, at the very least I do care very much about her and watching her self-destruct is extremely difficult.
Thanks for listening!
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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Welcome to the "posting" side of SR, mj1ab! I'm glad to hear that you've been reading here and glad that you decided to reach out for help.
You're right, we ARE all in the same boat. Regardless of exactly where the A in any of our lives falls on the alcoholic spectrum, regardless of exactly what has or hasn't happened to any of us, it's all part of the same big ugly sad picture.
You say "I know it's a disease, I can't fix her, need to take care of myself, yada, yada. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I've been living this for a long time..." You also say therapy didn't help and Alanon didn't help.
Just as nothing will help an A who isn't ready to stop drinking, there is nothing that will help one of us who isn't ready to let go of the misery. I don't mean to sound cold, but when you've finally really had enough, you'll know, and you'll do whatever it takes.
I think it's good that you're considering whether "love" is really what's going on between the 2 of you. I'd agree that there may be some question there.
I wish you strength and clarity, mj.
You're right, we ARE all in the same boat. Regardless of exactly where the A in any of our lives falls on the alcoholic spectrum, regardless of exactly what has or hasn't happened to any of us, it's all part of the same big ugly sad picture.
You say "I know it's a disease, I can't fix her, need to take care of myself, yada, yada. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I've been living this for a long time..." You also say therapy didn't help and Alanon didn't help.
Just as nothing will help an A who isn't ready to stop drinking, there is nothing that will help one of us who isn't ready to let go of the misery. I don't mean to sound cold, but when you've finally really had enough, you'll know, and you'll do whatever it takes.
I think it's good that you're considering whether "love" is really what's going on between the 2 of you. I'd agree that there may be some question there.
I wish you strength and clarity, mj.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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I'm not sure how "extended family commitments" figure into a decision whether to continue with a marriage. Whose family? Whose commitments?
It sounds as if you have become very isolated, what with keeping up a facade of normality for the sake of family. The secrecy and isolation are killers. What do you see as the fallout if you were to step away and allow her to sink or swim on her own? Have you considered that you may be enabling her to continue to drink by protecting her?
It sounds as if you have become very isolated, what with keeping up a facade of normality for the sake of family. The secrecy and isolation are killers. What do you see as the fallout if you were to step away and allow her to sink or swim on her own? Have you considered that you may be enabling her to continue to drink by protecting her?
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Exactly what are you looking for in a relationship?
Love is that powerful emotion we can only give to another, Love is not for the taking.
So sorry that addiction is ruling your daily life.
Is there anything you are willing to do for yourself ?
Sorry to say, a zebra cannot change it's stripes, she has shown you who she is, now you get to decide what an acceptable standard of living is.
And yes, it stings like hell to be in this situation.
Love is that powerful emotion we can only give to another, Love is not for the taking.
So sorry that addiction is ruling your daily life.
Is there anything you are willing to do for yourself ?
Sorry to say, a zebra cannot change it's stripes, she has shown you who she is, now you get to decide what an acceptable standard of living is.
And yes, it stings like hell to be in this situation.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
Dear Mj
I am glad you reached out.
It is also a disease for us, but it is OUR disease. We get into programs like AlAnon to work on us, not them. The isolation is a big hindrance to our own recovery.
I had to go through 4 different AlAnon groups before I found one that fit. I can't suggest strongly enough that you re-visit AlAnon for at least six meetings, maybe trying a different group.
As for love, the alcoholic's idea of love is having a warm body in their life that enables them to drink. Like my friend Maia says, we all love our addicts. We often have to love them from afar while we take care of ourselves.
Keep coming back!!!
I am glad you reached out.
It is also a disease for us, but it is OUR disease. We get into programs like AlAnon to work on us, not them. The isolation is a big hindrance to our own recovery.
I had to go through 4 different AlAnon groups before I found one that fit. I can't suggest strongly enough that you re-visit AlAnon for at least six meetings, maybe trying a different group.
As for love, the alcoholic's idea of love is having a warm body in their life that enables them to drink. Like my friend Maia says, we all love our addicts. We often have to love them from afar while we take care of ourselves.
Keep coming back!!!
Last edited by Eauchiche; 08-24-2015 at 06:34 AM. Reason: italics
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We the ones who love the A’s seem to mirror them. Just like alcoholics who say AA isn’t for them and therapy doesn’t help, we use those same excuses for NOT taking care of our own life and our own happiness and peace of mind and well-being.
Alcoholics shun responsibility for anything, codies shun responsibility for their own happiness and lives always depending on someone else to bring that about.
Excuses (denial) for NOT changing lie at the base of all addictions. And whether that addiction is to alcohol, drugs, food or another person.
Love isn’t supposed to hurt and cause pain and when someone is showing you they are not going to change then you have 2 choices…………..accept them and the situations for exactly what who and what they are or you leave and better your own life with some honest soul searching and education about your own behaviors.
It’s ok to love someone but not want them in your life.
Alcoholics shun responsibility for anything, codies shun responsibility for their own happiness and lives always depending on someone else to bring that about.
Excuses (denial) for NOT changing lie at the base of all addictions. And whether that addiction is to alcohol, drugs, food or another person.
Love isn’t supposed to hurt and cause pain and when someone is showing you they are not going to change then you have 2 choices…………..accept them and the situations for exactly what who and what they are or you leave and better your own life with some honest soul searching and education about your own behaviors.
It’s ok to love someone but not want them in your life.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Great questions.
We both have large extended families that we're close to. Fortunately for our situation, they are spread all over the country. We travel often for events and reunions. A split would mean that we'd both lose a signifant part of our lives. This is not something I want to do.
Yes and no (but mostly yes). Between work, sports buddies, and a few close friends, I do have a life of my own. I suppose this is what keeps me sane. Re: my AW though, I'm completely alone and this is what dominates my life.
So, "stepping away" means the loss of a wife and a half of a family that I really do love. I understand that I'm a co-dependent, but my options are very limited: stay or leave. Lose or lose. For now anyway, lose #1 seems to be the lessor of evils.
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
I'm not sure how "extended family commitments" figure into a decision whether to continue with a marriage. Whose family? Whose commitments?
Originally Posted by LexieCat
It sounds as if you have become very isolated,
So, "stepping away" means the loss of a wife and a half of a family that I really do love. I understand that I'm a co-dependent, but my options are very limited: stay or leave. Lose or lose. For now anyway, lose #1 seems to be the lessor of evils.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by mj1ab
I understand that I'm a co-dependent, but my options are very limited: stay or leave. Lose or lose. For now anyway, lose #1 seems to be the lessor of evils.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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I know a lot of people who remain on friendly terms with families of an ex. If you feel they accept you ONLY as an appendage to her, how deep is that relationship, really?
If you don't feel you can "step away" from the marriage just yet, maybe the thing to do is to broaden your own life so it isn't consumed by the marriage. It sounds like you've found a comfort zone of sorts in your misery--which is certainly not uncommon. I know you don't care for Al-Anon, but it can help you put the focus back on yourself and your life. Maybe take a vacation without her, maybe pursue some interest you once had (take a class, join a meetup). There's no reason to stay joined at the hip to someone whose company you no longer enjoy. Try pushing the envelope a bit.
If you don't feel you can "step away" from the marriage just yet, maybe the thing to do is to broaden your own life so it isn't consumed by the marriage. It sounds like you've found a comfort zone of sorts in your misery--which is certainly not uncommon. I know you don't care for Al-Anon, but it can help you put the focus back on yourself and your life. Maybe take a vacation without her, maybe pursue some interest you once had (take a class, join a meetup). There's no reason to stay joined at the hip to someone whose company you no longer enjoy. Try pushing the envelope a bit.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Mj- Welcome!!! I am sorry for the pain your wife has caused you. We are all here because of the pain our A's have "caused" us. She is an A and knows its killing her and there is nothing you can do about that. So your option is to stay and enable her to do that or rock her boat.
By making her life comfortable, home, food, bills paid, no responsibility life is very good for an A. Once we say enough, and follow through with it, we are changing the rules in the middle of the game. There is a saying here " Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen."
You are accepting her inappropriate behavior because "your families" are so close and you think, they don't really know her issues. Let me tell you, they know. You might think they don't. People are a lot smarter then you think, it is sure hard to hide a drunk..
The comments from the amazing people above are spot on. You can try and help yourself when you are ready or you can sit and watch your wife kill herself. I chose after 34 years with my XAH to get off the crazy train. It took everything I had, 2 open aa meetings, 2 alanon meetings a week plus SR every night for 10 straight months, to get the strength to divorce. The thing I learned in alanon is that I didn't have to "stop" loving my A by leaving. I could love him from a distance. That was huge for me. I still love my A after 10 months after our divorce, but he was not going to die on my watch!! NO WAY would I be apart of that.
Hugs my friend, stick around, retry alanon, hit an open AA meeting, hit SR new to recovery or AA forums. There is more information that will help you do the things you need to do for you. No need to make any decisions as alanon doesn't want you to make any for at least 6 months after joining. Keep posting and soak it all in!! I wish someday you find that peace and serenity that I have found!!
By making her life comfortable, home, food, bills paid, no responsibility life is very good for an A. Once we say enough, and follow through with it, we are changing the rules in the middle of the game. There is a saying here " Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen."
You are accepting her inappropriate behavior because "your families" are so close and you think, they don't really know her issues. Let me tell you, they know. You might think they don't. People are a lot smarter then you think, it is sure hard to hide a drunk..
The comments from the amazing people above are spot on. You can try and help yourself when you are ready or you can sit and watch your wife kill herself. I chose after 34 years with my XAH to get off the crazy train. It took everything I had, 2 open aa meetings, 2 alanon meetings a week plus SR every night for 10 straight months, to get the strength to divorce. The thing I learned in alanon is that I didn't have to "stop" loving my A by leaving. I could love him from a distance. That was huge for me. I still love my A after 10 months after our divorce, but he was not going to die on my watch!! NO WAY would I be apart of that.
Hugs my friend, stick around, retry alanon, hit an open AA meeting, hit SR new to recovery or AA forums. There is more information that will help you do the things you need to do for you. No need to make any decisions as alanon doesn't want you to make any for at least 6 months after joining. Keep posting and soak it all in!! I wish someday you find that peace and serenity that I have found!!
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Can you really love someone you don’t like being around most of the time?
I don't think so. I do think you can care about them, and feel guilt for what will happen to them if you leave. The "love" is usually something that existed a long time ago and is now gone, human nature to hope things will get back to the way they were.
is it familiarity (10+ years) plus fear of change that blinds me to the reality of the situation? Most people dislike this kind of change. Divorce is hard, and a failure even when its merited. I don't believe you are blind to your reality at all. I do think people get used to being miserable.
A split would mean that we'd both lose a signifant part of our lives. This is not something I want to do Fair enough. Is the family connection enough to satisfy whatever is lacking in your marriage due to alcoholism? There are people who do stay with their alcoholics and manage to be ok with it (I personally don't think forever). Thing is ending a relationship whether it is a marriage or bf/gf situation usually involves some type off loss, but also a gain. I would advise you to ponder your thinking here. What portion of your life is spent with your AW as opposed to time with her family?
Therapy didn't work, Al anon didn't work. Therapy and Al Anon are about you, not her. I think that speaks volumes about your situation. Almost like if you get well you know you will (or might) leave. Ya know sometimes we damn our own selves moreso than the A in our lives.
I am glad you posted. Hope you do more.
I don't think so. I do think you can care about them, and feel guilt for what will happen to them if you leave. The "love" is usually something that existed a long time ago and is now gone, human nature to hope things will get back to the way they were.
is it familiarity (10+ years) plus fear of change that blinds me to the reality of the situation? Most people dislike this kind of change. Divorce is hard, and a failure even when its merited. I don't believe you are blind to your reality at all. I do think people get used to being miserable.
A split would mean that we'd both lose a signifant part of our lives. This is not something I want to do Fair enough. Is the family connection enough to satisfy whatever is lacking in your marriage due to alcoholism? There are people who do stay with their alcoholics and manage to be ok with it (I personally don't think forever). Thing is ending a relationship whether it is a marriage or bf/gf situation usually involves some type off loss, but also a gain. I would advise you to ponder your thinking here. What portion of your life is spent with your AW as opposed to time with her family?
Therapy didn't work, Al anon didn't work. Therapy and Al Anon are about you, not her. I think that speaks volumes about your situation. Almost like if you get well you know you will (or might) leave. Ya know sometimes we damn our own selves moreso than the A in our lives.
I am glad you posted. Hope you do more.
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I really appreciate all of the support and constructive feedback. You can tell when someone has experienced what you're going through. Why are "strength and clarity" so difficult to come by? This discussion has certainly helped with the clarity.
When I think of love, I usually associate it with hormone-driven romantic love. As all of us "mature" people know, that kind of love, while important (read: sex), quickly fades and has little to do with the health of a long-term relationship. So what's left to hold two people together -- vows, mutual interests, family? It's no wonder the national divorce rate is 50%. And most of those do not include an A partner. Not sure where this train of thought is going other than thinking about the relative importance of all of the different parts of one's life as it relates to the stay/leave decision.
The other reality for me the "roller coaster". Even though they're brief, there are periods of calm and hope. For instance, when we travel we're together all of the time so she (usually) doesn't get the opportunity to drink and we'll have a good time. Even the slightest suggestion of improvement ("I'll be good today. I'm going to my AA meeting.") will lift my spirits. Yeah, I know I'm being manipulated, but that doesn't pervent the Pavlovian response from any glimmer of hope. The highs are of course always followed by the inevitable stomach wrenching plunge.
Nothing is ever black and white.
When I think of love, I usually associate it with hormone-driven romantic love. As all of us "mature" people know, that kind of love, while important (read: sex), quickly fades and has little to do with the health of a long-term relationship. So what's left to hold two people together -- vows, mutual interests, family? It's no wonder the national divorce rate is 50%. And most of those do not include an A partner. Not sure where this train of thought is going other than thinking about the relative importance of all of the different parts of one's life as it relates to the stay/leave decision.
The other reality for me the "roller coaster". Even though they're brief, there are periods of calm and hope. For instance, when we travel we're together all of the time so she (usually) doesn't get the opportunity to drink and we'll have a good time. Even the slightest suggestion of improvement ("I'll be good today. I'm going to my AA meeting.") will lift my spirits. Yeah, I know I'm being manipulated, but that doesn't pervent the Pavlovian response from any glimmer of hope. The highs are of course always followed by the inevitable stomach wrenching plunge.
Nothing is ever black and white.
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So what's left to hold two people together -- vows, mutual interests, family? I
Of course that romantic love doesn't last, but it also shouldn't go away 100%. IME its quite cyclical. I fall in love with my RAH over and over. Sometimes its like twinkle toes, and then sometimes I am so annoyed my him ( he feels the same about me). Then magically we go back to goofy in love again. What maintains consistent is the deep friendship. I think that is the key to a long marriage or commitment. He never stops being my friend even when I wish he would take a long hike off a short cliff. We also have similar life goals and support each other in them. I think that's also key as there is always something we are working towards.
No nothing is ever back and white but I can promise you something. You need help too not just her. You are an admitted codependent - sometimes we codies are as sick if not sicker than the A. The marriage is in complete crisis because both parties have issues and neither is addressing it.
I would encourage you to think about what I have said. There isn't much we can do in the way of someone's alcoholism. What can have a positive effect is ending the cycle of codependency and enabling. If you want to see some movement in this relationship that's the way to do it. And, I am not speaking about leaving.
Of course that romantic love doesn't last, but it also shouldn't go away 100%. IME its quite cyclical. I fall in love with my RAH over and over. Sometimes its like twinkle toes, and then sometimes I am so annoyed my him ( he feels the same about me). Then magically we go back to goofy in love again. What maintains consistent is the deep friendship. I think that is the key to a long marriage or commitment. He never stops being my friend even when I wish he would take a long hike off a short cliff. We also have similar life goals and support each other in them. I think that's also key as there is always something we are working towards.
No nothing is ever back and white but I can promise you something. You need help too not just her. You are an admitted codependent - sometimes we codies are as sick if not sicker than the A. The marriage is in complete crisis because both parties have issues and neither is addressing it.
I would encourage you to think about what I have said. There isn't much we can do in the way of someone's alcoholism. What can have a positive effect is ending the cycle of codependency and enabling. If you want to see some movement in this relationship that's the way to do it. And, I am not speaking about leaving.
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Originally Posted by mj1ab
. So what's left to hold two people together -- vows, mutual interests, family?
Unfortunately, none of that is possible, at least on a consistent or reliable basis, with a partner who is an active alcoholic.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Back again
It's been close to 4 years (!) since I started this thread.
Unfortunately, nothing has really changed. Another DUI and some jail time didn't help. I can't even depend on family events to keep her sober. She's started to ruin those too. Same regular verbal abuse.
As always, when sober, she is well aware of the damage she causes. This, of course, feeds into that shame cycle that fuels more drinking.
It's all very depressing.
Anyway, thanks for listening (again).
Unfortunately, nothing has really changed. Another DUI and some jail time didn't help. I can't even depend on family events to keep her sober. She's started to ruin those too. Same regular verbal abuse.
As always, when sober, she is well aware of the damage she causes. This, of course, feeds into that shame cycle that fuels more drinking.
It's all very depressing.
Anyway, thanks for listening (again).
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 106
I struggle with the "love" thing a lot. I was certainly blinded by love for many years before I decided to take a hard look at my reality and accept the fact that it is nothing like the fantasy I have in my head. My boyfriend is an Alcoholic/Drug Addict , and the years it has taken from my life are regrettable to some extent. I am however thankful that this horrible situation has brought me to Alanon - and that has been a spiritual awakening that I am beyond grateful for. And if by some crazy chance I come out of this a success story, that will be a delightful experience as well. BUT for the past 6.5 years right up until today my life with an Addict has been a series of nasty fights , verbal abuse , gas lighting, emotional tug of war, heart ache, confusion, LIES. Sometimes he comes home at 5am drunk and high out of his mind, I have no idea where he has been. Last month he fell over in the bathroom and cut himself, there was blood on the floor and shower curtain, when I asked him if he was ok he blamed me for the blood and told me I put it there- followed by a violent storm of verbal abuse. Once when we went on vacation he got so drunk I left the hotel and took an uber to the airport and spent the night at the airport , he showed up the next day for our flight drunk out of his mind. All of this happens on a weekly /monthly basis. It is followed by me "detaching " sleeping in the other room for a week or two before his sad sorry text start coming in telling me how much he loves me and how he doesn't want things to be this way. I feel like a complete mental case all the time. And all I know is that none of this is LOVE. I have never treated him the way he has treats me. If I were to stay out all night partying it would be because I am single or want to be single. He does not grasp this concept. Although he has acknowledged that he would not like it if I stayed out all night. I am confused how to "love" someone who is not offering mutual love and respect back? This whole experience has brought me to this journey I am on to take a look at myself and what I need to change. I feel sick to my stomach almost everyday. Even when things are "good", my gut always knows. And the scary part is that this whole ordeal became "normal" , even though I know it's not normal to live this way, it has gone on for so long that he accepts it as normal and I'm fighting for my life all the time because it's not the easiest thing to find a new place to move in the most expensive city. In the meantime love or not, I have no interest in remaining in a relationship of this caliber.
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