madness
 

Do you ever feel like you are talking to the Mad Hatter when trying to have a conversation with an alcoholic? There is no such thing as having a simple disagreement either. Today is one of many of those days. Example, if I defend myself and tell him that isn't true then he says I am calling him names. What???? Then he says you called me a liar so you are name calling. Then as his ranting continues he just flat out calls me a liar, but says that it isn't name calling because if he says it; it is so. Sigh. . This is just an example of one of many of the crazy making circular arguments. He turns everything into full out war over something small and even if you go to him and say this is crazy let's just drop it. NOPE, not happening he not only has to win he has to destroy you and remain fully seated in the victim chair. Thanks for listening.

I stopped expecting to have rational conversations with people under the influence a long time ago -- they don't call them mind-altering substances for nothing!

So true, sparkle kitty. He's like this even when he's sober.

Ugh. I completely remember those days. I finally had to realize that rationalization with an alcoholic does not happen, and having a conversation with an alcoholic is like spinning your wheels and going no where.

I am sorry it's a tough day. I hope your day improves and you have a nice weekend. XXX

Thank you hopeful. Sometimes it just helps to talk to people who understand. The thing is when he is in this frame of mind even walking away to try and avoid an argument doesn't work because then he turns that into an argument. :(

He sounds like a third-grader...I'm rubber and you're glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you! Nyaaaah!!"

:tongue:

Lol... I love that analogy suki. :) To be honest I would rather reason with a third grader than him. lol...

have you considered NOT being around someone who behaves like that? and i don't mean "other room" not around, i mean like another zip code or something. this has been a very long grind for you.....

Sheesh yes do I remember these conversations! They are sick. My ex was brilliant at it and it left me standing there at times with my mouth wide open wondering what the heck just happened! I DO not miss that at all. I will never have another conversation with someone under the influence or expect rational behavior from an alcoholic.
Sorry you are dealing with this...it is maddening. Hope you have a great day and weekend!

Indeed Anvilhead, you know I would advise anyone else to do exactly that. I think that fear holds me back because, I know that all hell will break loose when I do I suppose. Maybe there is more, I'm not sure.

onceuponatime....it sounds like you are being h eld as a emotional hostage.

dandylion

It certainly feels that way dandylion. Sometimes I think he hates me, but at the same time wants to have me. If that makes sense. I feel like a possession of his rather than a person involved in a relationship with him.

Onceuponatime....have you heard "Don't Jade"? It is a staple concept in recovery circles. It refers to h ow to draw a boundary (for you) around the stupid and insane things that comes out of the mouths of addicts.
You are under NO obligation to J--justify A--argue back D--defend E--explain.

Don't JADE removes you from the "eye" of the conflict at hand.
How you respond is under your control (ultimately). A person can't fight with yo if you remove yourself from the game.

When he is talking smack...picture him with a big "Q" on his forehead (for quacking). Or picture him as a small little duck quacking his head off..lol.
Or picture him with a big "C" on his forehead for crazy.
Respond to him with neutral or deflecting remarks. Like you would a small child that was stomping their feet.

Tighten your boundaries....if he follows you...leave the house. Go for a walk or to the library or go buy a cup of coffee. Put physical distance if emotional distance doesn't co o l him down.

A word of warning , though. If he is inclined to become abusive or physical in any way...you have got a more serious situation that just detaching won't contain.
Don't ever put yourself in danger if he is aggressive or abusive.
That is a judgement call that you have to make---because safety is always the first order, of course.

You spoke of your fear (to leave his zipcode).....that is what I meant about being held as an emotional hostage.
I hope you are getting some help to strengthen your self and to address what is holding you back.

Detachment is a good tool to buy you some emotional space and some time....so that you can sort your own self out and take your life back.....
But, detachment won't do the whole job......

dandylion

I asked my ex if I could borrow one of our cats over the weekend- the one I nursed back to health 4 years ago to the tune of $1000 after I found it almost dead in his flowerbed.
The cat is fine now, and weighs 18 pounds. I know all the animals are well cared for.
I just wanted to visit with my old buddy.
Before I knew it, my ex turned it into an opportunity to clobber me. He pointed out that since I left all of them (himself and the animals), they should all stay with him.
Then, this morning, I got a different e-mail telling me I had as much right to them as he does.
I returned his e-mail, agreeing that the animals are perfectly happy and fine at his place. Then, I gave him my old buddy, lock stock and barrel, in my own mind.
I instantly felt free of a hurt I had, missing my old buddy.
If my ex loses his house, which he threatens about 3 times a year, then I will revisit that issue.
For now, detach, detach detach.....

My answer for dealing with my A....... Im' sorry. I am not sure how many times I said that in a night when he was drunk or sober. Always looking for a fight so he could leave and go drink. Get a way from me. I would constantly tell him I'm sorry. I am not sure if I read that in alanon or what. But it sure defused a lot of junk that happened in my house. Did it really mean anything to me to say that? No. Just say it and get him off your case. Yuck!! Don't miss all those sorry's

Hugs OUAT!!!

I don't have discussions with my AH when he's drinking. I wait til he's back at work n sober. Nothing like wasting your breathe... No thanks.

I think it was someone here who once told me that trying to reason with an actively drinking alcoholic was like asking your dog a question and waiting for a written response.

Once my wife had gotten good and sober - like a year into sobriety - she adopted that line and loves it. When you are trying to reason with an active alcoholic everything you say is going to lead precisely toward them sobering up and that is NOT what they want until it is what they want.

Hang in there

Dandylion, I've never heard of Jade. Thanks for sharing it. :) Been to many alanon meetings in the past, but it has been awhile since I have been. He turned that into a fight too. So, I just stopped going. If I don't respond then he blows up about that. He's not physically abusive , but has been known to throw objects about the room a time or two. He's an emotional bully. And I am his target for whatever doesn't go his way ,he aims his anger at me.