The Dance We Do...
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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The Dance We Do...
So I suppose I asked for it...But I really needed a friend to talk to about everything so I went out for dinner tonight with my buddy to chat about everything that's been going on.
My intention was to get out before AGF got home from work but she came in early. I probably should have just been clear when I left and said I was going out to meet XXXX (who she knows well, and he's a male BTW so no funny business)...But instead just sort of threw the same language at her that she's been throwing at me before her all nighters.
I said I was heading out for a bit and won't be back late.
Well 10 minutes later I received a text message stating, to paraphase: "to be clear, are we dating other people now?"
I responded fairly quickly (felt the buzz in the pocket) who I was out with and that I just needed a friend to talk to about things.
Got home about an hour later (it's still very early) and she's now gone. A-ha, says the AGF, I got you! Texted her as well, with the same question. She's out with HER girlfriend, won't be out late (of course, said the same thing 2x more in the last week and both times, never came home until the next day, and I had no way of knowing if she was REALLY with her or not).
Such a roller coaster game of ping pong we play. Trying to detach, detach, detach, and not think that she may be with another guy...or how many drinks she is having THIS time. And if she'll come home at all or once again it will be at 5:30 AM, her having slept...who knows where.
I'd actually have been more accepting to come home and just find her not here...but why an unfairly accusatory text on top of it? It's just all too much.
It's so tiring, this dance we do when the lines get drawn.
My intention was to get out before AGF got home from work but she came in early. I probably should have just been clear when I left and said I was going out to meet XXXX (who she knows well, and he's a male BTW so no funny business)...But instead just sort of threw the same language at her that she's been throwing at me before her all nighters.
I said I was heading out for a bit and won't be back late.
Well 10 minutes later I received a text message stating, to paraphase: "to be clear, are we dating other people now?"
I responded fairly quickly (felt the buzz in the pocket) who I was out with and that I just needed a friend to talk to about things.
Got home about an hour later (it's still very early) and she's now gone. A-ha, says the AGF, I got you! Texted her as well, with the same question. She's out with HER girlfriend, won't be out late (of course, said the same thing 2x more in the last week and both times, never came home until the next day, and I had no way of knowing if she was REALLY with her or not).
Such a roller coaster game of ping pong we play. Trying to detach, detach, detach, and not think that she may be with another guy...or how many drinks she is having THIS time. And if she'll come home at all or once again it will be at 5:30 AM, her having slept...who knows where.
I'd actually have been more accepting to come home and just find her not here...but why an unfairly accusatory text on top of it? It's just all too much.
It's so tiring, this dance we do when the lines get drawn.
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 104
Jedi mind trick smh. It truly is difficult to not feed into their madness when they know how to push your buttons and that you're still emotional attached. She will be gone soon and the heal process can truly begin. Stay busy although I know its hard.
Sending you (((((( hugs)))))
Sending you (((((( hugs)))))
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
No, you didn't ask for it. She's been doing it to you for a while now. She sounds very childish and like she can't take a little taste of her own medicine. Is there a plan for when she's going to move out? It sounds like this band aid is being pulled off really slowly at the moment.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Thanks for the evening support. 
She's doing her best, actually - Finding a place to live (when you don't have any willing nearby friends or family that are going to let you hotel it at their place) takes a bit longer and I can appreciate that. She's been going to apartment showings this week (and I see the applications laying around to prove it) so she's looking.
Has to be tough on her too. I know she wants to be free of the guilt and the burden of having to feel monitored or judged for her drinking, so that will be freeing, but I have to assume some point of her will also miss one or more aspects of this relationship as well.
Wishing her, and me, peace!
She's doing her best, actually - Finding a place to live (when you don't have any willing nearby friends or family that are going to let you hotel it at their place) takes a bit longer and I can appreciate that. She's been going to apartment showings this week (and I see the applications laying around to prove it) so she's looking.
Has to be tough on her too. I know she wants to be free of the guilt and the burden of having to feel monitored or judged for her drinking, so that will be freeing, but I have to assume some point of her will also miss one or more aspects of this relationship as well.
Wishing her, and me, peace!
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
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I'm sure she will miss parts of the relationship and I can promise you she'll drink to drown that pain.
It's the way it works. Instead of processing pain and grief like a normal person would, they drink to numb it and they forget it for awhile and they essentially never deal with it or other emotions that come up in life. I mean we all know life sucks at times right?! Alcoholics don't know how to get through it without the drink.
I have sat and listened to my husband far to long and come to the conclusion that he does not know how to deal with any kind of uncomfortable situation from life without alcohol. This is one reason why he holds onto so much baggage because he's never processed it n gotten rid of it. He just numbed it.
It's the way it works. Instead of processing pain and grief like a normal person would, they drink to numb it and they forget it for awhile and they essentially never deal with it or other emotions that come up in life. I mean we all know life sucks at times right?! Alcoholics don't know how to get through it without the drink.
I have sat and listened to my husband far to long and come to the conclusion that he does not know how to deal with any kind of uncomfortable situation from life without alcohol. This is one reason why he holds onto so much baggage because he's never processed it n gotten rid of it. He just numbed it.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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She's moving out, who cares who she's out with? And the texting back and forth is fairly pointless when she says she'll be home and she isn't. If she doesn't show up for a couple of days and you haven't heard anything you report her missing, but I wouldn't expect any reliability from her right now. You just need this DONE so you can move on with your life. She could drag this out for a VERY long time.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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I gotta agree with Lexie on this one. I know it's hard to cut the ties, even moreso when you are under the same roof. The back and forth is so emotionally exhausting. I asked my AH to move out over two months ago. It was apparent within 24 hours that he was not actually going to leave, and I immediately put my own apartment search into high gear. It has been about 10 days since I blurted out my plans to move on September 1 during an argument. During those 10 days, if I followed old patterns and allowed myself to be swayed by the things that used to sway me, I would have cancelled and uncancelled my new lease at least twice a day. It truly is a whirlwind of feelings.
The less you can interact with her, the better...for your sanity's sake. She's going to get more erratic and more outrageous as time goes by. And apartment applications around the house notwithstanding, I'm willing to bet it could be an ordeal to get her out.
Sending you lots of positive vibes for peace and serenity. And lots and lots of ((HUGS)).
The less you can interact with her, the better...for your sanity's sake. She's going to get more erratic and more outrageous as time goes by. And apartment applications around the house notwithstanding, I'm willing to bet it could be an ordeal to get her out.
Sending you lots of positive vibes for peace and serenity. And lots and lots of ((HUGS)).
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
i know it's hard not to engage, but really do TRY. there is no reason to reply to her <<full of crapola>> texts. especially not while you are at dinner with other company....i mean table manners and all that. what you do NOW is YOUR business....what she does is HER business. so be it. don't throw more wood on the fire. as much as you might want to.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Thanks so much to all of you for your encouragement. What a great group of human beings you are. So supportive and understanding of it all. Wise beyond your years (no matter what they are!)
She knows we are separating and that I'm waiting for her to move out. Relationship-related discussions have ceased, she's living in a different part of the house (not that it's a big house, mind you, just her own bedroom/bathroom) and (when she's not out drinking with her girlfriend, or new guy (if he exists but it doesn't matter), she is looking for an apartment to rent.
She could be stalling slightly to save more $$ however she's not here most nights either so I'm sure she'd rather not be here any longer than I want her here, nor has there been ANY level of indication that there is any remorse or reconsideration (no conversations except the occasional necessity or cordial hello)...She's happily in her new world of denial, I did nothing wrong, I'm getting out, etc.
I'm doing my best to engage as little as possible because an argument is pointless. Refiner, I'd love to engage her with a text like that but I'm just trying to take the high road. IMHO if she's still living here even if I wanted to start dating that's not respectful (not that it would matter to her if she wanted to date, I realize). Plus after this relationship ends I need to take stock and figure myself out before I am dating anyone else. Last time, I wasn't ready and was available to her when she wanted to come back. I think a lot of these "are you dating??" type accusations may come from a fear that I won't be around the next time, should it happen again. But I need to just stop having to think about it, so her moving out will help. I won't have to deal with the 1 night here, 1 night "I'll be home early" (and then never coming home) type stuff. Will be glad when this is over. It's only been a week since this all really blew up major and it feels like a year!
She knows we are separating and that I'm waiting for her to move out. Relationship-related discussions have ceased, she's living in a different part of the house (not that it's a big house, mind you, just her own bedroom/bathroom) and (when she's not out drinking with her girlfriend, or new guy (if he exists but it doesn't matter), she is looking for an apartment to rent.
She could be stalling slightly to save more $$ however she's not here most nights either so I'm sure she'd rather not be here any longer than I want her here, nor has there been ANY level of indication that there is any remorse or reconsideration (no conversations except the occasional necessity or cordial hello)...She's happily in her new world of denial, I did nothing wrong, I'm getting out, etc.
I'm doing my best to engage as little as possible because an argument is pointless. Refiner, I'd love to engage her with a text like that but I'm just trying to take the high road. IMHO if she's still living here even if I wanted to start dating that's not respectful (not that it would matter to her if she wanted to date, I realize). Plus after this relationship ends I need to take stock and figure myself out before I am dating anyone else. Last time, I wasn't ready and was available to her when she wanted to come back. I think a lot of these "are you dating??" type accusations may come from a fear that I won't be around the next time, should it happen again. But I need to just stop having to think about it, so her moving out will help. I won't have to deal with the 1 night here, 1 night "I'll be home early" (and then never coming home) type stuff. Will be glad when this is over. It's only been a week since this all really blew up major and it feels like a year!
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I certainly empathize with your situation, but I hope this experiment will teach you that "tit for tat" doesn't work. Do you owe her an explanation for where you are going or with whom? No. However, you are still living together. While she has often given you the "I'm out see ya" line lets be honest here - you did so to provoke her or to get even with her. She got jealous, text you, and then one upped you. I am curious, did you come back earlier than you expected? Seems a talk with a friend would be longer than the very short time you were gone.
Until she leaves I recommend trying to be as civil as you can be. Stop with the "tit for tat". Not because she doesn't deserve it - but because it will keep your life peaceful in the interim while she is looking for somewhere else to live - and honestly she is better at the game than you are. She doesn't care if she upsets you. I think you do care and are still affected by her manipulations.
Next time yes, just tell her whom you are going out with. Beyond that you don't owe an answer.
Until she leaves I recommend trying to be as civil as you can be. Stop with the "tit for tat". Not because she doesn't deserve it - but because it will keep your life peaceful in the interim while she is looking for somewhere else to live - and honestly she is better at the game than you are. She doesn't care if she upsets you. I think you do care and are still affected by her manipulations.
Next time yes, just tell her whom you are going out with. Beyond that you don't owe an answer.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta 
I certainly empathize with your situation, but I hope this experiment will teach you that "tit for tat" doesn't work. Do you owe her an explanation for where you are going or with whom? No. However, you are still living together. While she has often given you the "I'm out see ya" line lets be honest here - you did so to provoke her or to get even with her. She got jealous, text you, and then one upped you. I am curious, did you come back earlier than you expected? Seems a talk with a friend would be longer than the very short time you were gone.
Until she leaves I recommend trying to be as civil as you can be. Stop with the "tit for tat". Not because she doesn't deserve it - but because it will keep your life peaceful in the interim while she is looking for somewhere else to live - and honestly she is better at the game than you are. She doesn't care if she upsets you. I think you do care and are still affected by her manipulations.
Next time yes, just tell her whom you are going out with. Beyond that you don't owe an answer.
Until she leaves I recommend trying to be as civil as you can be. Stop with the "tit for tat". Not because she doesn't deserve it - but because it will keep your life peaceful in the interim while she is looking for somewhere else to live - and honestly she is better at the game than you are. She doesn't care if she upsets you. I think you do care and are still affected by her manipulations.
Next time yes, just tell her whom you are going out with. Beyond that you don't owe an answer.
I honestly didn't think she would care and was surprised when she did. But like you said, it caused an even bigger rift last night and once again got me involved in a situation I'm trying so hard to just avoid. The weekend's here, so you can bet I'll be here.
I appreciate the advice of staying out of it -- I'm afraid moving forward she'll probably try and engage in some sort of games any time I leave the house even if I am clear on where I am headed, and keep playing her games the way she wants as well -- Can only hope there is an end game soon. If there is another guy and my gut tells me there is, she may be trying to get in quick enough to do the move-out from here and the move-in immediately with him which would save her the hassle of an apartment, bills, etc -- Could see that as a possibility as well. Poor dude.
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Originally Posted by TryGuy
Refiner, I'd love to engage her with a text like that but I'm just trying to take the high road. IMHO if she's still living here even if I wanted to start dating that's not respectful
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You are in the home run. I would just have as little contact w/her as possible. I would however be setting a deadline as to when she has to be out. Make it fair, but really, this could go on for a long time. If for nothing else just for her own financial benefit.
I agree the tit for tat only makes it worse, however, I understand. Sometimes you are just pushed against the wall and cannot take anymore, which is why she needs to go.
Just know that you are in the home run and soon will be free of it all, to move on in a healthy and happy way!
I agree the tit for tat only makes it worse, however, I understand. Sometimes you are just pushed against the wall and cannot take anymore, which is why she needs to go.
Just know that you are in the home run and soon will be free of it all, to move on in a healthy and happy way!
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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TG- This is where you start with setting up boundaries. She has time to spend the night out and party every night, but can't find a place. Really? I know that she conveniently left the apartment brochures where you could see them. (She would have hid them in her car if she didn't want you to find them). She is spending her nights at someones house already, what's the difference with bringing her clothes and pillow??
IMO she is not looking hard enough. You need to give her a time frame. One month is plenty of time to find a place, pack up and get her stuff out. You have to follow through. Enough with the Mr. Nice guy. He doesn't exist anymore. Give her a written time frame and a consequence for it. (keep a copy) If she doesn't get out by Sept. 15th then her stuff will be put in the garage and door locks will be changed.
A's don't work very hard unless there is consequences. She could sit on this till the first of the year, or till she finally gets a job, or when hell freezes over, who knows.
You are at a point of seeing what games she is playing and you are strong enough not to engage with her. Take another step and make this happen!!
Hugs my friend, you are doing AWESOME!!!
IMO she is not looking hard enough. You need to give her a time frame. One month is plenty of time to find a place, pack up and get her stuff out. You have to follow through. Enough with the Mr. Nice guy. He doesn't exist anymore. Give her a written time frame and a consequence for it. (keep a copy) If she doesn't get out by Sept. 15th then her stuff will be put in the garage and door locks will be changed.
A's don't work very hard unless there is consequences. She could sit on this till the first of the year, or till she finally gets a job, or when hell freezes over, who knows.
You are at a point of seeing what games she is playing and you are strong enough not to engage with her. Take another step and make this happen!!
Hugs my friend, you are doing AWESOME!!!
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston, Texas
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I would second the notion of setting a specific date to move out by, but if you do that you have to keep that date iron-clad. If need be, look into legal options for keeping that date set in stone.
Even though she's agreed to move out and is making the appearances of looking for a new place (rental applications, etc.,), she is still a person that has shown you that her word alone cannot be trusted, and if this agreement is left open-ended, it will likely be taken advantage of. Boundaries with alcoholics need to be specific and laid out - and strongly adhered to.
I know this is a hard thing to do, but while you are still living together it would be best to just completely disengage about any personal talk. You are separating, so you owe her nothing as far as what your day to day plans are. If you go out, and she texts like that, you have no obligation to respond. Don't bother with questioning her when she goes out either. Just let her go and do your own thing. She's not likely to be honest with you anyway, and you're just feeding her ego.
She'll probably keep throwing little punches like this - after all, you're upsetting the balance in her own life. She now has to go look for someone else to be her caretaker so she can continue her destructive behavior, unabated. So, try your best not to engage and to take it personally. Regardless of anything you feel in the coming months, you are simply an innocent bystander of someone else's disease, and you're just taking the steps to protect yourself from the fallout from it.
It may even be helpful for you to create a new routine for your own free time. It will help keep your mind of of the current situation, and keep you from engaging in her daily antics. It will give you a little distance and space to clear your mind and keep your peace, as well. Concentrate on your own daily habits and routines that allow you to separate yourself from this relationship, and help strengthen the boundaries you're creating. You can't help the person she's chosen to become, but you can help yourself forge a healthy pathway out of this situation.
Even though she's agreed to move out and is making the appearances of looking for a new place (rental applications, etc.,), she is still a person that has shown you that her word alone cannot be trusted, and if this agreement is left open-ended, it will likely be taken advantage of. Boundaries with alcoholics need to be specific and laid out - and strongly adhered to.
I know this is a hard thing to do, but while you are still living together it would be best to just completely disengage about any personal talk. You are separating, so you owe her nothing as far as what your day to day plans are. If you go out, and she texts like that, you have no obligation to respond. Don't bother with questioning her when she goes out either. Just let her go and do your own thing. She's not likely to be honest with you anyway, and you're just feeding her ego.
She'll probably keep throwing little punches like this - after all, you're upsetting the balance in her own life. She now has to go look for someone else to be her caretaker so she can continue her destructive behavior, unabated. So, try your best not to engage and to take it personally. Regardless of anything you feel in the coming months, you are simply an innocent bystander of someone else's disease, and you're just taking the steps to protect yourself from the fallout from it.
It may even be helpful for you to create a new routine for your own free time. It will help keep your mind of of the current situation, and keep you from engaging in her daily antics. It will give you a little distance and space to clear your mind and keep your peace, as well. Concentrate on your own daily habits and routines that allow you to separate yourself from this relationship, and help strengthen the boundaries you're creating. You can't help the person she's chosen to become, but you can help yourself forge a healthy pathway out of this situation.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I agree with a time frame. She has the ability to bounce into a new relationship, and given time she'll find a sucker - I mean - boyfriend.
Did I say that out loud? I know because that was my (and a lot of other female alcoholics') MO. Use sex to keep the party going. One guy to the next. Easy peasy, never have to be responsible, keep the low self-esteem going, never get better, ugh ugh. It has the added benefit of stroking the ego at a time when things are pretty bad. It's currency, and men make it really easy for us to do if we have no standards and are willing to hook up with the next pretty face. A lot of people - but especially alcoholic women - don't know how to be alone and pay their own way. Plenty of men out there looking to be the rescuer or to take advantage of someone when they are down. I broke that very bad pattern when I was in my late twenties, but it takes a lot of introspection and strength to do.
I would tell her she needs to start paying half the bills starting right now. Figure out a dollar amount: if she doesn't pay when due - start official eviction proceedings. You can start with just a form from online.
Did I say that out loud? I know because that was my (and a lot of other female alcoholics') MO. Use sex to keep the party going. One guy to the next. Easy peasy, never have to be responsible, keep the low self-esteem going, never get better, ugh ugh. It has the added benefit of stroking the ego at a time when things are pretty bad. It's currency, and men make it really easy for us to do if we have no standards and are willing to hook up with the next pretty face. A lot of people - but especially alcoholic women - don't know how to be alone and pay their own way. Plenty of men out there looking to be the rescuer or to take advantage of someone when they are down. I broke that very bad pattern when I was in my late twenties, but it takes a lot of introspection and strength to do.
I would tell her she needs to start paying half the bills starting right now. Figure out a dollar amount: if she doesn't pay when due - start official eviction proceedings. You can start with just a form from online.
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