Stalemate
 

I realized today that in many cases this can just boil down to a stalemate.

- She no longer wants to walk on eggshells and wants the freedom to drink as much as she wants, whenever she wants, without judgement.

- I can no longer tolerate the unpredictable nature of her levels of drinking and often times the resulting behavior.

Since we both refuse to give, it becomes a stalemate. Conversations are minimal. We no longer sleep together. We're breaking up.

How is there ever hope for a relationship where one partner has a drinking problem and the other does not? Alcohol is everywhere. Never was when I was growing up. Now it's in every restaurant. Every theme park. Every reality TV show. Family BBQs. Neighbors have "wine night" every Friday. Others offer beers when you pass by walking the dog offering up a drink and a chat. Alcohol is so PRESENT now...How does a drinker who wants to avoid it, do it? Hard enough to stop I imagine...Even harder to keep it out of sight, out of mind? You can't live in a bubble. You can't lock yourself up in a room. You almost have to learn self-control both in the absence AND the presence of it.

But then again -- You can't plan a life of activities around avoiding booze. It's at every resort. On the beach/boardwalk. At the campgrounds. On the cruises.

Then again, she smoked for many years, quit, and can resist the urge when others are smoking any old time. Those urges aren't triggered. Perhaps nicotine and alcohol are different in their hold? She quit the booze, too. For about 5 months. In the winter. I had to keep it out of the house. Never consume it where she could see it. Was worth it. Among (if not THE) best 5 months of our relationship. She was clearer. Brighter. More vibrant. More social. More attractive. Fun to talk to. Engaged in conversations. Awake. Healthy. It was great. Then, the slow gradual downslide of "moderation" and "I'll stop after xyz event" until it escalates. Such a frustration.

So many hills to climb, so much working against the couple who decides that enough is enough (either side).

I'm not an alcoholic, so I can't answer your questions with anything but this: A recovering A that understands and resolves the thing(s) that drive them to drink and numb their pain in the first place will not need to rely on willpower or distractions to overcome the prevalence of alcohol in our society. White-knuckling doesn't last.

As far as relationships? My relationship with an alcoholic did not last. I want and deserve a healthy partner who is present and accountable and takes responsibility for their choices. For me, an active alcoholic does not fit that bill.

The problem isn't the ubiquity of alcohol, the problem is that SHE can't cope with life without it. Alcoholics have been around since the first grapes were allowed to ferment. Alcoholism thrived during prohibition (read "Bill's Story" in the Big Book).

A lot of alcoholics DO try to stop by avoiding being around alcohol. And if they drink, they figure it's the fault of the person/place/thing/situation that made it so available and tempting. It doesn't work--not because alcohol is everywhere, but because they haven't addressed the root problems that lead to their needing to drink.

A good relationship is virtually impossible if one partner is drinking. Both partners' drinking is no better. It may "work" for a while as they tolerate each other's drunken antics, but eventually even these relationships implode.

Alcoholism is the enemy of any healthy relationship, period.

A complete lack of healthy coping skills is, I believe, the biggest reason my AH drinks. Someone without healthy coping skills will always struggle to maintain a healthy relationship with another person, regardless of whether alcohol is involved.

We talk a lot here, and in Al Anon, about detachment. And for me, detachment was a critical part of my early and mid recovery. Practicing detachment was crucial for me to bring focus back to myself, where it needed to be (and where I had some semblance of control). My personal opinion is that for the vast majority of people, detachment is NOT a long-term solution to living with an active addict. I got to the point that you are at--while I accepted that my AH has a right to live his life however he wants, I am no longer willing to accept that behavior in my daily life. As much as I detach from him and his behavior, there is just this whole laundry list of things missing from my life and from our relationship, and I am not willing to live that way. Add to that the fact that this ALWAYS gets worse over time, unless someone works an active recovery plan, and you have yourself a stalemate. An impasse. I'm taking the left fork in the road, and he is taking the right. It hurts, but it's OK.

Hi TryGuy,

Sorry about your situation, but it pretty much describes where I am right now with my wife. I am also a long term heavy drinker but I quit drinking about eight months ago after a particularly disturbing episode that my wife had. We have young children and I finally decided to put my foot down before disaster strikes or our kids see me drunk and lose respect for me or I mess them up with my bad example. My wife not so much. She agrees to quit drinking after bad episodes but then slowly but surely reverts to drinking and ends up doing something dangerous or making a fool of herself. She quit drinking during her pregnancies and seemed to really thrive so it just seems so sad she can't or won't figure out how to beat the addictive voice in her head. Just last weekend we were at a family BBQ and I walked into the room to see her pouring a nice big cup of wine (in one of those red plastic cups so I wouldn't notice). I was like WTF, we're here with the kids? Then I suggested that her plan or lack thereof to stay sober was apparently not working and she should go to a Women for Sobriety meeting in our area - very comfortable environment with non-threatening people. I even did the leg work to find the meetings. While she agreed in front of our therapist that that was a great idea, she has never gone and says she doesn't have time, even though I said I would handle the kids and dinner by myself that night each week. So she got angry at my suggestion and basically said her drinking is my fault and anyways she had not had a bad episode in nearly nine months (despite three fails I know about). I got angry and also told her that basically I don't believe her anymore and I think she is just BSing me to get me off her back. I just don't see myself going the distance with an active A.

Sorry to vent on your thread, but I think our situations are similar. I would disagree with some of the other poster here that seem to think that if an addict deals with their underlying psychological issues, the addiction will go away. In my opinion that is normally enabling BS and the addiction is a chemical thing in the brain that needs to be dealt with in itself. The other stuff that gets stuffed down needs to be dealt with, but it not the cause.

The key to anyone quitting drinking, (I know because I have done it. I am a middle aged woman who quit drinking almost 2 years ago after being a heavy drinker for most of my adult life) is the desire to quit. That desire to quit comes when you finally see how much the downside of drinking outweighs the upside and no one can make you see this and understand this, except you and your perceptions of your experiences. Yes, alcohol seems prevalent in today's society, but one thing that you notice when you quit is that most people really drink alcohol much less than you think that they do. When I first quit drinking, for the first few months, I kept out of temptation's way, but once not drinking becomes your way of life and you are really living authentically and healthfully, honestly I can be around all sorts of drinkers and truly now only feel sorry for them.

Unfortunately, for most of us here who love active alcoholics, our alcoholics still love to drink. Nothing we can say, do or show means much until they get honest with themselves. And getting honest with yourself comes when you and God are ready.

this is amazing information.

:scoregood

I would encourage TryGuy to spend some time on the Alcoholism and Newcomers to Recovery sections of this site. Read how it is from the alcoholic's point of view.

As an alcoholic in recovery myself, I can say that it isn't a simple either/or situation as to the cause and continuance of alcoholic drinking. It's exceedingly complex and is a combination of poor coping skills, (possibly) dysfunctional upbringing or traumatic life events, genetic predisposition, opportunity, and then finally after continued alcohol use it becomes physiologically necessary for the alcoholic to drink to feel normal. It becomes a disease of the brain. In the end, it is necessary to drink to keep from feeling unbearable misery. There is no magical moment when drinking becomes alcoholism. It just does.

There is a lot of medical research, TryGuy. I would suggest spending time reading the sticky threads at the tops of the Alcoholism and Newcomers to Recovery sections. It's just a very complicated thing, and I don't think you are ever going to understand it if you haven't lived it.

A very difficult rock/hard place situation - for both you and your STBXGF.

I was wondering if anyone felt if I should read in those forums. Thank you so much for the good advice. Regardless of the outcome, I do have this strong desire to understand her as best I can (even though, as you say, and I agree, I will never fully know the desire/pull that is felt when alcohol is actually needed as a coping mechanism).

That's a really good starting point for me, actually. I have on a few occasions in my life drank because I was feeling bad. I drank, and for a few moments, I felt better - Then I felt sad. Then the day after, I felt 10x worse than I did the day before when I started drinking BECAUSE I felt bad. Whoa, I said -- This didn't work. I feel awful. Now, when I am sad, I do other things to deal with it. Things to take my mind off it. Talk to people about it. Journal. See family or friends. Watch a movie. Exercise. And most importantly...I need to FEEL it. I don't like to feel it, but I don't want to run away from it. I need to feel terrible, sad, angry, depressed...and get past it...so I can feel good again.

I'll read up in there but not post, as my thoughts were that those areas were for those having problems (or had) to post and share, and I certainly don't want to be in their way, but would love to try and better understand the struggle that she has gone through for (most?) of her life.

Thank you.

This is a good one from "Alcoholism" Stickies:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

...and we don't bite. :) If you want to pose a question on the "other side" it will be well received. You'll get a different spin, maybe.

The best thing is to work on you and how you can rebuild. She's taken enough, it sounds like. You may never figure it out, but that's okay - you will come to a comfortable peace in time. Life is pretty mysterious. We don't always get all the answers.

Going to echo what you already heard....

Something has to make the alcoholic want to get sober 'like a drowning man clutching at a rope' as they say in AA. You can't make them.

My wife is a recovered alcoholic. 4 years ago she started trying to get well, next month she gets her three year AA Chip. Some people refuse to believe that alcoholism is a disease, I believe that it is. There are two parts to it - the obsession and the 'allergy'. You can drink a couple drinks and walk away. An alcoholic taking a drink is like someone allergic to shellfish deciding try the shrimp. Once they start, they can't will themselves not to react.

...but nobody I know with a shellfish allergy intentionally eats shrimp whereas just about every alcoholic goes through all sorts of 'moderation' and going from vodka to wine and a dozen other dodges that don't work. What works is no alcohol ever again. I don't think my wife couod have done that without AA and her first 6-8 months in AA was just to get off the 'hot seat' and get me off her ass. it wasn't until she slipped and almost blew everything that she got serious and WANTED sobriety more than anything else.

What got her to decide was my dropping her off at a relatives at 2am when she would not go to a hospital and telling her she could not come back unless and until she decided to get well. That was not a tactic and I would not suggest it unless you are serious but I decided I was not going to live with active alcoholism and losing her home and new family was enough to break through that desire to drink and make her want to get well.

I'm very sorry you looked for us, very glad you found us. I strongly recommend you go find your local al-anon meeting and just go and keep going for 6-10 visits before deciding if you need it.

Sure you can. It's been working for me so far. Ever since my alcoholic ex wife left me, I have gone out of my way to avoid locations and social events where alcohol is involved as I refuse to drink a single drop of the stuff due to all the problems her drinking made for us. Now my daily routine looks something like this:

Weekdays: full time job, gym and swimming Monday and Thursday, 10km (6.2 miles) run on Friday with a group of people.
Weekends: hiking on Saturdays, housecleaning and reading books on Sundays. Once a month I'll get together with an organized group of adults who play various games of tag at a local park. Occasionally on weekends I'll go to a local community center and play a few games of pool with some acquaintances.

Just because alcohol is prevalent doesn't mean it's everywhere. There are websites out there (example: meetup.com) that allow you to find social events in your area based on the kind of social activity you enjoy, which can range anywhere from art viewing to extreme sports, and plenty of them don't involve consuming alcohol.

I 100% agree^^^. I've been sober over three years and my life has gotten better bc I've sought out things not involving alcohol. Life is much fuller.

TG- you can post on the A forum. There usually is a ton of good responses, mostly for us to attend an alanon meeting.

They give you the A's perspective to have some compassion and understanding. We Alanon's should all be reading this forum for us to truly try and understand!!

Thanks everybody. I'll look into some other points of view there.

One area I don't see covered a lot is cheating/affairs. 4 years ago, the last time we broke up (gosh I feel so stupid saying that now) she had already started a new relationship with another guy. Obviously the flame burned out quickly as we got together a few months later. I figured the lessons learned from that may be enough for that never happen again, even if things got bad for us.

Four years later, here we are again. Her behavior pattern is the same. We had grown distant due to alcohol. And suddenly, she has other places to stay at night. She denied another guy in the picture last time but it turned out to be false. I asked her the same questions this time which he also denied.

I have no evidence of nothing to confront on but I'm not sure I understand the denial. It would actually make or break up easier with me if she admitted to someone else being in the picture. But for whatever reason she never wants to be seen as someone who starting a new relationship while living with someone else. She does not want to be branded a "cheater" I guess.

Here's what gets me – I know this failed on her last time, and it probably fails a lot of time, but how common is it for someone who has chosen alcohol over their partner to simply find a new partner that is accepting of it? Just basically to go dry up the first person and then move onto the next?

Try, I've been an A but sober now for over 3 years. I agree with you that there are chemical issues, big ones, and just to make it complicated there are also psychological issues. Your AW has reached a point where she sees what drinking is doing to your relationship but is nowhere near ready to stop drinking. The affair, which seems likely, is another part of her personality and probably mixed up with being able to drink freely and wanting some intimate human contact.

I'm not sure how old the children are? You've made it clear that you can't tolerate her drinking/behaviour, and you can't stop her drinking, so where does that leave you and the children? Are they even aware of her drinking?

You can learn to detach through Al-anon or similar and keep the family together, living a sort of shell marriage for the children's sake.

Leave the marriage and the children.

Get her to leave, or leave taking the children.

You may not be ready for this sort of thinking, but it's essential you start looking to the future with the possibility that she may never become sober. Unfortunately some As only reach sobriety through the breakup of their family and marriages.

I suggest you quietly look into your legal and financial options, as well as recording everything you can about her drinking just in case you need it if things get worse.

"but how common is it for someone who has chosen alcohol over their partner to simply find a new partner that is accepting of it? Just basically to go dry up the first person and then move onto the next?"

I am sorry to say, but quite common.
My mate, in retrospect, wasn't finished with his ex when he met me. At least the ex thought this was the case. I would have been okay with them being friends, but there was all this secrecy connected with it, including the ex coming to town once and spending the weekend there after I had already been in the picture 6 months. At the time I was required to hide out. I would never do that now, thanks largely to my AlAnon program. I can't recommend that program strongly enough for you.
I am so sorry about the problems that bring you here. I hope we can offer you some support.

Pretty much the norm actually. Once you get in the way of the disease, it will kick you to the curb. Try not to take it personally. the disease will mold all relationships to ensure the booze keeps flowing. Pretty freakin' unbelievable, really.

^^^ YES!!!! ^^^ haven't heard it put that way. So true.

Ask an a. They will tell u tha it is very common not to leave one "enabler" before u had another back up one. They need help in life to facilitate their drinking. They don't want to be alone, and there always is another someone there looking to drink with. It is nothing against you, just a normal progression, don't take it personally.

You are learning tg, great questions.