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Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3
Help
Brief history - AH is a binge drinker and has a problem foe a long time. Has been bad the last couple years. We have two teenage daughters. I have been planning our exit for months and have secured an apartment and just got the keys- moving in Monday. Kids know something is up as it has been bad but don't will probably be surprised that we are moving ( there is a reason I went that route . I am afraid to tell my husband - he has never been physically violent but can be very verbally abusive and I really don't know what can happen. I am now thinking that I may tell just the kids today and not him until tomorrow so I can pack (only kids rooms and some misc stuff). That way I can actually have the kids out of line of fire and mentally prepared for his reactions as well. I know in a normal divorce telling kids first would not be appropriate.
Bottom line is I an afraid of his reaction and how he will treat me and the kids any suggestions appreciated and want to do this where I don't mess up my kids - at this point I isn't care how AH takes it
I have been lurking here a long time and it has been so helpful in understanding how much I cannot control his alcoholism Thanks to all!
Bottom line is I an afraid of his reaction and how he will treat me and the kids any suggestions appreciated and want to do this where I don't mess up my kids - at this point I isn't care how AH takes it
I have been lurking here a long time and it has been so helpful in understanding how much I cannot control his alcoholism Thanks to all!
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi Summer, do you have family or friends who can take the kids for a night or two? You're right in planning for the unexpected, like a violent or abusive reaction, because this is a serious move. Is there someone who can help you pack up the remaining stuff, for your own safety, just in case?
Once you have the remaining items out of the house, perhaps you could tell him by phone, or even write a letter to give him time to calm down before you meet in person.
There are resources such as domestic violence phone services that could give you further advice.
Once you have the remaining items out of the house, perhaps you could tell him by phone, or even write a letter to give him time to calm down before you meet in person.
There are resources such as domestic violence phone services that could give you further advice.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Have you talked with a lawyer yet? Unless you have an order giving you custody of the girls, he has an equal right to them. What if the girls don't want to move? Are you planning to tell him where you are moving? If not, that can result in a criminal charge, depending on where you live.
I understand your wanting to protect them from his anger, but this "surprise move" with nobody but you prepared for it, might create problems you haven't anticipated.
I think I'd want some legal advice before making this move. Could you make an appointment with someone for next week, and maybe put off the move for a few days while you make sure you aren't shooting yourself in the foot? You might also call your local DV shelter and talk to an advocate about how you can make a safe exit. It's great that you have the apartment as a safe place to go, but the exit strategy itself could use some refinement.
I understand your wanting to protect them from his anger, but this "surprise move" with nobody but you prepared for it, might create problems you haven't anticipated.
I think I'd want some legal advice before making this move. Could you make an appointment with someone for next week, and maybe put off the move for a few days while you make sure you aren't shooting yourself in the foot? You might also call your local DV shelter and talk to an advocate about how you can make a safe exit. It's great that you have the apartment as a safe place to go, but the exit strategy itself could use some refinement.
aka Nesty
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern Vt.
Posts: 1,554
Summertime , these replies are very good questions . If you don't have some kind of prof - that it is in the best interest of the children to get them away from him . You will have a fight on your hands . Like LexieCat said ?
Rather you may think because he's drinking , he won't care about the kids - He may fool you & than you may unleash the biggest beast in him
If you still plan on going though with this , Please have a Man friend or 2 friends be with you - if he's their !!
Best of luck to you ..
Rather you may think because he's drinking , he won't care about the kids - He may fool you & than you may unleash the biggest beast in him
If you still plan on going though with this , Please have a Man friend or 2 friends be with you - if he's their !!
Best of luck to you ..
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3
Thank you for responses I did check with attorney as long as I don't take then out of state and don't hide where the location ( deny access) it is within the law. I live in wisconsin - if someone thinks I got poor advice please let me know.
It is not safe for us to stay - when he drinks he is becoming more angry . A couple of weeks ago he almost broke down my daughters door to talk her. She was trying not to engage - it was awful. We ended up at my moms that night. I don't feel unsafe under normal non drinking circumstances - but when he drinks I cannot say that. If I file first I have to wait about a month for temp orders - and even then whomever had to vacate would have time to look for a place. That is why I am planning it this way.
It is not safe for us to stay - when he drinks he is becoming more angry . A couple of weeks ago he almost broke down my daughters door to talk her. She was trying not to engage - it was awful. We ended up at my moms that night. I don't feel unsafe under normal non drinking circumstances - but when he drinks I cannot say that. If I file first I have to wait about a month for temp orders - and even then whomever had to vacate would have time to look for a place. That is why I am planning it this way.
aka Nesty
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern Vt.
Posts: 1,554
Ok that changes the situation for me . I'm sure your daughter has to be scared and sounds old enough to tell the right people how bad he can be drinking . Now it sounds like you have a plan of action . Good for you to be strong , and get out before things did get physical 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
My ex was an angry binge drinker. You're doing the right thing to get your kids out of that situation. It will only get worse.
I actually packed everything while mine was on a multiday bender and he literally didn't notice until the day before we left. Hope everything goes smoothly (as much as it's possible in these situations). Stay safe and keep us posted.
I actually packed everything while mine was on a multiday bender and he literally didn't notice until the day before we left. Hope everything goes smoothly (as much as it's possible in these situations). Stay safe and keep us posted.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
My ex was a daily drinker (a lot) but bunged when ever anything in his life set him off-me, his mom, work, you name it. The binges were either him being really nice and overly loving or massive amounts of anger. It was scary and disturbing to say the least. It took me getting over my fear of leaving him to get to a place wher there is peace in my home-you and your kids are worth it. He will only get worse-trust me, I've lived it. Peace to you
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Mosaic Threat Assessment
Summertime, there is a profoundly helpful tool called the "Mosaic Threat Assessment" which is used by police departments, including the US Capitol police, to assess how violent a person - or suspect - might become, given their history.
For people like us, women who have lived with constant verbal abuse, we often cannot recognize or we minimize the severity of the abuse we are living with. It just becomes "what life is", and we don't have the distance or perspective to see how really bad it is.
If your husband tried to batter down your daughter's door, that is physical violence and well beyond verbal abuse. He feels entitled to do whatever he wants to break through someone else's boundaries, including battering a door to get to face to face contact with his victim.
This means several things. First, he has no respect for another person's self, safety, or personal boundaries. The other person exists as an extention of his own needs, and he feels entitled to get his own needs met, no matter how it affects the other person. He doesn't get it that he is frightening someone else, or he just doesn't care.
Second, he has already broken through the unspoken dictim that our society has that males do not use their superior physical force to intimidate or threaten women and children. He is already past verbal abuse into physical actions against other people to express his will and get the result he demands.
Third, you have already had to flee your home with your children to keep them safe. That is a major turning point, and not a good one.
When I was a child, I used to watch the sidewalk to my front door as my father came home from work to see who was coming home tonight - "Good Dad" or "Bad Dad". I think I literally thought of him as two different people, and adapted my behavior accordingly to protect myself.
When we, as battered wives, see our husbands as "Good Guy" and "Bad Guy Under The Influence", we are creating a similar dichotomy in our minds that allows us to compartmentalize our partner's scary and abusive behavior and discount it. We see it as something to be endured, something he doesn't really mean, something transitory and less important, something that will go away as soon as "Good Guy" comes back.
That is not true.
He - we all - are the sum of all our behaviors. He - we all - are totally accountable for everything we do, without any excuses. We are ONE being, not two parts of a being who can be treated differently, with the bad parts excused.
The fallacy of "Good Guy"/"Bad Guy" is potentially very dangerous for us. With alcoholics, the alcohol is steadily and surreptitiously undermining the self control and will of the "Good Guy"; it is progressive and with each drink, it diminishes the alcoholic and his/her ability to behave reasonably and rationally.
It would be very helpful for you to google the "Mosaic Threat Assessment" and read the site. It is totally confidential; you can use an alias to take the test, and you can read the results on line or have it sent to a newly created, unknown email.
When I took the Mosaic Threat Assessment on my then verbally abusive narcissistic husband of almost 20 years, who had not escalated into physical violence against me, his profile from these perceptive questions showed an 8 out of 10 propensity for violence.
I was astonished, but I had answered the questions honestly.
You might search here on SR for past threads. I was given incredibly helpful advice when I left and divorced him, now 3 years ago , so you might search on my name, ShootingStar1 and look back at my old threads.
Take care, be careful as you make this change. Talking to domestic violence experts before Monday can be very very useful. Make sure that you have bags packed for you and your children, extra car keys, important papers such as birth certificates, deed, and so on. Make sure that you have at least one credit card in your name only. Transfer half the assets you have into a separate bank account BEFORE you leave.
Expect the worst, prepare for it, and then you'll be safer.
ShootingStar1
For people like us, women who have lived with constant verbal abuse, we often cannot recognize or we minimize the severity of the abuse we are living with. It just becomes "what life is", and we don't have the distance or perspective to see how really bad it is.
If your husband tried to batter down your daughter's door, that is physical violence and well beyond verbal abuse. He feels entitled to do whatever he wants to break through someone else's boundaries, including battering a door to get to face to face contact with his victim.
This means several things. First, he has no respect for another person's self, safety, or personal boundaries. The other person exists as an extention of his own needs, and he feels entitled to get his own needs met, no matter how it affects the other person. He doesn't get it that he is frightening someone else, or he just doesn't care.
Second, he has already broken through the unspoken dictim that our society has that males do not use their superior physical force to intimidate or threaten women and children. He is already past verbal abuse into physical actions against other people to express his will and get the result he demands.
Third, you have already had to flee your home with your children to keep them safe. That is a major turning point, and not a good one.
When I was a child, I used to watch the sidewalk to my front door as my father came home from work to see who was coming home tonight - "Good Dad" or "Bad Dad". I think I literally thought of him as two different people, and adapted my behavior accordingly to protect myself.
When we, as battered wives, see our husbands as "Good Guy" and "Bad Guy Under The Influence", we are creating a similar dichotomy in our minds that allows us to compartmentalize our partner's scary and abusive behavior and discount it. We see it as something to be endured, something he doesn't really mean, something transitory and less important, something that will go away as soon as "Good Guy" comes back.
That is not true.
He - we all - are the sum of all our behaviors. He - we all - are totally accountable for everything we do, without any excuses. We are ONE being, not two parts of a being who can be treated differently, with the bad parts excused.
The fallacy of "Good Guy"/"Bad Guy" is potentially very dangerous for us. With alcoholics, the alcohol is steadily and surreptitiously undermining the self control and will of the "Good Guy"; it is progressive and with each drink, it diminishes the alcoholic and his/her ability to behave reasonably and rationally.
It would be very helpful for you to google the "Mosaic Threat Assessment" and read the site. It is totally confidential; you can use an alias to take the test, and you can read the results on line or have it sent to a newly created, unknown email.
When I took the Mosaic Threat Assessment on my then verbally abusive narcissistic husband of almost 20 years, who had not escalated into physical violence against me, his profile from these perceptive questions showed an 8 out of 10 propensity for violence.
I was astonished, but I had answered the questions honestly.
You might search here on SR for past threads. I was given incredibly helpful advice when I left and divorced him, now 3 years ago , so you might search on my name, ShootingStar1 and look back at my old threads.
Take care, be careful as you make this change. Talking to domestic violence experts before Monday can be very very useful. Make sure that you have bags packed for you and your children, extra car keys, important papers such as birth certificates, deed, and so on. Make sure that you have at least one credit card in your name only. Transfer half the assets you have into a separate bank account BEFORE you leave.
Expect the worst, prepare for it, and then you'll be safer.
ShootingStar1
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
^^ shooting star-my therapist told me to take the test as well...my ex scored an 8 out of 10 as well. Not surprising, but it did give me the ability to know exactly what I needed to do to keep myself and our kids safe. Everything you said is spot on-100% accurate.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Hi Summertime sorry of what is going on.
You have gotten some wonderful advice and I will add a little more. I don't think you should tell your husband until the day you are out the door. If you do it leaves lot of room open - 24 hours are more to have to deal with him, and it could be really bad.
Take heed of what Shooting Star said - this is the same person, not two different people. An announcement of a spouse leaving is upsetting to most anyone. I would also advise to have supportive friends or family around you when you do this.
Bottom line is I an afraid of his reaction and how he will treat me and the kids
. I am afraid to tell my husband - he has never been physically violent but can be very verbally abusive and I really don't know what can happen
These are your words my friend ^^^. Please re-read them. Pay attention to your gut, this is not the time to rationalize a situation. DV advocates will tell you, and you can find on any website, that the most dangerous time in a DV situation is when the victim leaves. If ever was a time to put emotion aside now is the time.
Wishing you peace and happiness, safety for your self and you family. Lots of kudos for getting out and taking your family to safe environment.
P.S. You haven't mentioned if you husband works, if it were me and he does I'd be packing and getting out on Monday while he was gone. IMO it is the safest way to avoid confrontation which what you NEED to do, if you can. (((hugs)))
You have gotten some wonderful advice and I will add a little more. I don't think you should tell your husband until the day you are out the door. If you do it leaves lot of room open - 24 hours are more to have to deal with him, and it could be really bad.
Take heed of what Shooting Star said - this is the same person, not two different people. An announcement of a spouse leaving is upsetting to most anyone. I would also advise to have supportive friends or family around you when you do this.
Bottom line is I an afraid of his reaction and how he will treat me and the kids
. I am afraid to tell my husband - he has never been physically violent but can be very verbally abusive and I really don't know what can happen
These are your words my friend ^^^. Please re-read them. Pay attention to your gut, this is not the time to rationalize a situation. DV advocates will tell you, and you can find on any website, that the most dangerous time in a DV situation is when the victim leaves. If ever was a time to put emotion aside now is the time.
Wishing you peace and happiness, safety for your self and you family. Lots of kudos for getting out and taking your family to safe environment.
P.S. You haven't mentioned if you husband works, if it were me and he does I'd be packing and getting out on Monday while he was gone. IMO it is the safest way to avoid confrontation which what you NEED to do, if you can. (((hugs)))
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
To add a little more - I think its in your best interest to be in an Attorney's office on tuesday morning and file for divorce with temporary custodial agreement. I am unfamiliar with Wisconsin laws; however, pretty familiar in my own state which I see seems to be the same in all. Until you have filed each parent has equal custodial rights I think would be normal everywhere. Unfortunately sometimes children become the chattel in this kind of situation with the angry spouse picking them up at school etc and refusing return. A DV advocate should also be able to advise you on this.
Here you can deny a visit when there is no temporary custodial agreement. Its kind of like possession is 100% the law. The spouses end up on the same playing field where the custodial spouse is not doing anything illegal (as long as they have told the parent where the children are residing) and the non-custodial parent is not doing anything illegal by trying to see the children. Both have access to file for temporary custody, and that's what they would be told by law enforcement if they were involved. I have known folks to refuse visitation until the papers have been filed (In cases of abuse have seen this twice. Once when molestation was being alleged, and once in a physically abusive situation).
I am NOT TELLING YOU TO DO THIS - it may not be ok in your state. Just giving a gentle push to get to the attorney office as soon as you can.
Here you can deny a visit when there is no temporary custodial agreement. Its kind of like possession is 100% the law. The spouses end up on the same playing field where the custodial spouse is not doing anything illegal (as long as they have told the parent where the children are residing) and the non-custodial parent is not doing anything illegal by trying to see the children. Both have access to file for temporary custody, and that's what they would be told by law enforcement if they were involved. I have known folks to refuse visitation until the papers have been filed (In cases of abuse have seen this twice. Once when molestation was being alleged, and once in a physically abusive situation).
I am NOT TELLING YOU TO DO THIS - it may not be ok in your state. Just giving a gentle push to get to the attorney office as soon as you can.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3
Update
First, thank you to everyone that offered advice and encouragement as I was on the brink of leaving my home and AH. It was intense, barely ate and did not sleep for the two days prior. All in all it went as well as can be expected.
I told him the day before and had my mom there (he is close with her and respects her). We both told him he needs help. I don't think he was surprised that something was happening as I had given him one final chance and I think he knew I was at the end of my rope. But, he was shocked that I found a place and was moving me and the kids out. I was prepared there would be anger , but there was more hurt coming from him.
He says he is going to get help and made an appointment the day after we moved out. He has also been doing telephone therapy until then.
He has also said that I did the right thing , that nothing would have changed if I didnt ddo something so drastic. He also says he isn't going to drink alcohol for the rest of his life. Before he was saying he just needed to moderate and drink like a normal person. So all of the sounds encouraging. However, other things he is saying not so much. He has also said that he does not think he is truly addicted and that's it a behavioral thing for him. That because he can stop and not drink for periods of time and also because he can go out to dinner and just have one beer. he said that the counselor told him that yes, that would be unusual . That if he is an alchoholic it's not likely he would be able to stop at one or two. He said he is going to do the evaluation and cousins but he can quit alchohol "like that" ( snaps his fingers).
So, I am just taking it one day at a time and have told him the proof is in his actions not words. While my emotions have been up and down, I am happy that I finally pulled this trigger! It is wonderful not to worry what I might come home to or worrying that the kids have to be there when he is in that state.
I told him the day before and had my mom there (he is close with her and respects her). We both told him he needs help. I don't think he was surprised that something was happening as I had given him one final chance and I think he knew I was at the end of my rope. But, he was shocked that I found a place and was moving me and the kids out. I was prepared there would be anger , but there was more hurt coming from him.
He says he is going to get help and made an appointment the day after we moved out. He has also been doing telephone therapy until then.
He has also said that I did the right thing , that nothing would have changed if I didnt ddo something so drastic. He also says he isn't going to drink alcohol for the rest of his life. Before he was saying he just needed to moderate and drink like a normal person. So all of the sounds encouraging. However, other things he is saying not so much. He has also said that he does not think he is truly addicted and that's it a behavioral thing for him. That because he can stop and not drink for periods of time and also because he can go out to dinner and just have one beer. he said that the counselor told him that yes, that would be unusual . That if he is an alchoholic it's not likely he would be able to stop at one or two. He said he is going to do the evaluation and cousins but he can quit alchohol "like that" ( snaps his fingers).
So, I am just taking it one day at a time and have told him the proof is in his actions not words. While my emotions have been up and down, I am happy that I finally pulled this trigger! It is wonderful not to worry what I might come home to or worrying that the kids have to be there when he is in that state.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,281
Hi Summertime,
What a wonderful update! Very smart of you in how you're handling this and having healthy support for yourself. Congratulations on finding your way to a safe place, mentally and physically.
As for your husband, the denial is part of the disease. Letting him learn to walk or fall down is the only way he'll have the opportunity to learn. This is such a baffling, cunning, counterintuitive disease that I need to remind myself of this all the time. That method works wonders for my own recovery from this family disease of alcoholism, as well. I didn't use to be able to see how greatly I'd been affected by it. Now I'm waking up and learning how to enjoy life. It's not always easy or comfortable, but it is very very good.
Many blessings and prayers for you and your children, and your husband.
Gentle hugs for you.
What a wonderful update! Very smart of you in how you're handling this and having healthy support for yourself. Congratulations on finding your way to a safe place, mentally and physically.
As for your husband, the denial is part of the disease. Letting him learn to walk or fall down is the only way he'll have the opportunity to learn. This is such a baffling, cunning, counterintuitive disease that I need to remind myself of this all the time. That method works wonders for my own recovery from this family disease of alcoholism, as well. I didn't use to be able to see how greatly I'd been affected by it. Now I'm waking up and learning how to enjoy life. It's not always easy or comfortable, but it is very very good.
Many blessings and prayers for you and your children, and your husband.
Gentle hugs for you.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi Summertime, great news that the move went smoothly and safely. I hope your AH is able to stop drinking for good, but as you say, the proof will be in his actions, not his words. He may not find it as easy as he thinks, and I speak from experience.
Best wishes to you and the girls in your new place.
Best wishes to you and the girls in your new place.
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