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Old 07-24-2015, 07:36 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I read a book once where an older woman says this to her daughters --

"You all think seem to you think that you should marry someone when you feel this intense emotion, which you call love. And then you expect that the love will fade over time as life gets harder. When what you should do is find a nice enough fellow and let real love develop over years and births and deaths and so on."

This struck me. This woman didn't choose the guy who knocked her socks off, she chose the steady guy who treated her well even though she didn't "love" him...he was her rock and by the time he died later in life she mourned him so much because he was truly the love of her life...because they had CHOSEN to rely on each other, share everything, and grow together...and because he was a GOOD MAN.

I fell hard for XAH. Wondered if I would love that way again.

I'm in another relationship, and I chose him because we immediately clicked on so many levels--parenting, spirituality, having fun, taking life as it comes...at my age, THIS is the important stuff. I looked through him and liked his SOUL. I was actually afraid the physical might not be there. But there's an intimacy I can achieve with him that I never would have reached with X. I think the true epic love decades down the road is stumbling over the cracks in the sidewalk, each offering a hand to the other, crying when you fall, laughing when you see something beautiful, and sometimes choosing to walk by yourself a while knowing he's somewhere close and trusting he'll be there when you come back.

For me, true love includes room for and expectations of much more personal independence than I thought. It's way better!
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:19 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Praying View Post
I read a book once where an older woman says this to her daughters --

"You all think seem to you think that you should marry someone when you feel this intense emotion, which you call love. And then you expect that the love will fade over time as life gets harder. When what you should do is find a nice enough fellow and let real love develop over years and births and deaths and so on."

This struck me. This woman didn't choose the guy who knocked her socks off, she chose the steady guy who treated her well even though she didn't "love" him...he was her rock and by the time he died later in life she mourned him so much because he was truly the love of her life...because they had CHOSEN to rely on each other, share everything, and grow together...and because he was a GOOD MAN.

I fell hard for XAH. Wondered if I would love that way again.

I'm in another relationship, and I chose him because we immediately clicked on so many levels--parenting, spirituality, having fun, taking life as it comes...at my age, THIS is the important stuff. I looked through him and liked his SOUL. I was actually afraid the physical might not be there. But there's an intimacy I can achieve with him that I never would have reached with X. I think the true epic love decades down the road is stumbling over the cracks in the sidewalk, each offering a hand to the other, crying when you fall, laughing when you see something beautiful, and sometimes choosing to walk by yourself a while knowing he's somewhere close and trusting he'll be there when you come back.

For me, true love includes room for and expectations of much more personal independence than I thought. It's way better!
Beautifully said and absolute truth imo.

Through the years I had fireworks and intense marriage or long love affairs with three different broken A's with the crazy train in high gear. Looking back I see too many great guys left in the dust... no spark at all and therefore never given a chance. I "measured" men by the brain chemical rush.

I wonder about my brain that dabbled drank, smoked and took recreational drugs in the late seventies and early eighties and never came close to getting addicted. I NEVER liked the lack of control so wasn't drawn to getting trashed at all.

Why did I go for guys that were needy but charismatic and charming and addicts (most were "clean" at the start of the relationship but always ended up relapsed at some point and needed "saving"? Why did only that type spin the sexual attraction off the dial?

I think it may have been because I could "control" them and enjoy the high while not being intoxicated... in some twisted way it had a deep connection to my nasty A father who was emotionally unavailable, dangerous and hated and loved at the same time. How weird that we can become attracted to the adventure of walking the razor blade edge with broken people and enjoy manipulating them?

Talking about me and this may not apply to others but my childhood and codie mom and crazy dad screwed my head up and sadly I didn't even realize how badly until I stepped into the recovery path that started with this website years ago.

This website and others are a Godsend to young women that can choose to open the door into the windows of their own souls and unravel the past and choose a GREAT future with a man worth giving your heart and soul to that won't hurt you.
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:31 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Liz, I followed much of your story and I am so happy for you that you found a promising new relationship! I think it's perfectly normal to be a but guarded and apprehensive. Best of luck - he sounds great!

I just wanted to share how consciously listening to my intuition saved me from falling for yet another very unhealthy person:

After a recent bad break-up, I was not looking for anyone, but ended up meeting this guy a few weeks ago. We went out and the chemistry was INCREDIBLE. It was the best date of my life. I found him charming, worldly, classy, and drop-dead gorgeous. We sizzled! I tried to keep up my guard, but he talked love very quickly. I told him before I meet him again, I would have to check up on him. I googled his name and nothing came up. He insisted it's his name and I asked him to send me a copy of his ID. He did a day later and I told him that I am flattered that he would go to such lengths as to photoshop this. He denied and said I am crazy. Later in the day he came clean about having lied about his nationality (like I care where someone is from). He gave a reasonably good explanation and sounded adequately embarrassed and remorseful. I asked for his real name and he gave it to me. The second link was to a magazine article about his honeymoon a few years ago. His wife's facebook had an anniversary picture of the two from a few months ago. I confronted him and heard again how crazy I am to assume he is married, until I said "Does (insert her name) know you are going after other women." Then came the sob story. I am just relieved nothing more happened besides kissing.

Long story short, if it's too great, something might just be off. I am a bit sad because it felt so good and exciting, but a person like that does not deserve me.

But I think it's another good experience to find out what works for me. With axbf, it was his alcoholism and unaddressed PTSD and other issues, but he is a very decent person and remains a friend (he is in recovery now). The last ex turned out to be a manipulative, ruthless narcissist and this last date is a player. The good news is that with each one, I am better equipped to figure it out and walk away.
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:48 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up ..so what are you looking for here?

I feel quite at home within this forum. I can relate to other's posts. I can't discuss what's talked about on SR with my friends.....I really value the frankness of what's said on this site.

I had many unhappy, discontented years as a young woman in a marriage that wasn't working for me. Once I had found the courage to walk away, by insisting on a divorce, I started to find out who I am and what suits me.

My childhood has shaped me but I try to shape my adult life by staying relatively independent even when I'm dating a guy. I've learnt new things about myself in every relationship and I only seem to get attracted to the "wild" ones but that's also my choice. I count myself lucky because I am content with my life now.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:15 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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I'm very glad this thread has come up. I split with my alcoholic ex-fiance in December 2011, knew there was no point in trying to date for at least a year - which then stretched into two - then started dating someone who was clearly not over his ex. There was a time when I'd have tried to compete (ha!) but instead I calmly told him that I didn't think he was ready for another relationship, and left.

Back in April I met a very nice man with whom I felt a deep connection, initially just as a friend, but it became apparent that there was rather more to it. He told me he was in the process of ending a short-term relationship and would be in touch with me once he had a bit of distance from it. I made it very clear that I wasn't interested in keeping contact with him until he had - and didn't expect to hear from him again.

However, he did contact me a while later. Right now, we're taking things very slowly.

I realised that I have a history of choosing guys who are emotionally distant and spending half the relationship eating my heart out, then following this with someone who's really, really keen - who then turns out to be a controlling abuser.

Being with someone who's attentive and loving, but not in a cloying way, yet happy taking and giving space is a first for me. So is being with someone who's happy to discuss spiritual matters, has been through the fire and out the other side, has confronted his own demons and continues to do so. There's part of me that welcomes this with open arms, and the feeling of butterflies is there all right.

Other than that, I really don't know where I am. I've become aware that my platonic friendships have become much healthier in the last 3.5 years, and that I've not felt duty bound to maintain boundary-busting relationships purely because I've known the person a long time, for example.

I'm OK about waiting and seeing. I know that the starry eyes and butterflies are an illusion, and I've yet to see the real him. I think it's been made easier by being as straightforward and honest in my dealings with him as possible.

I don't know where I am. But one of the huge gifts of Alanon is learning to hold still with uncertainty, trust in a Higher Power and not create crazy situations by trying to force solutions.

Amen to that!
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:46 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Rosabla......would you like a helpful hint....?
If you want to get a peek at the "real him".....spend a weekend wallpapering a small bathroom with him. The smaller the pattern---the better...

dandylion
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:48 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Rosabla......would you like a helpful hint....?
If you want to get a peek at the "real him".....spend a weekend wallpapering a small bathroom with him. The smaller the pattern---the better...

dandylion
Brilliant!
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:08 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Re: SEX

I am running the risk of sounding like an oddball prude, but please hear me out.

In today's culture, even casual "friends" engage in sex, usually early in the relationship. Not too many years ago, there was no sex until the wedding night. And, what happened? the divorce rates were almost non-existent back then.

I have made the same mistakes as all the rest of you in my relationships, but I made a decision to learn from them and not repeat them.

Sex sets ups strong chemical reactions in the brain that bonds you to your mate. If that happens early, then how the h*ll can we ferret out the addicts? We've lost all our objectivity.

Kudos to the "boring" couple somebody posted about. They will probably still be married into old age.

Just sayin'
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:29 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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For most of my life I understood love to be an emotion. In recovery I have learned it is a verb - a conscious action. If we are honest about it, the emotion we feel early in a relationship isn't love, it's infatuation. It's about a mythical person and a mythical state of eternal bliss. That bliss fades as we get to know all of this person in whom we're invested, sometimes it grows into something bigger and better, but usually it fades.

I spent most of my life thinking that I would know my home when I found it. I went through several houses, and they never quite cut it, and I moved on. Love is like consciously choosing a dwelling and saying - this is where I live, this is where I will sink my roots. It's a scary thing because, who knows? That roof may leak, and the foundation is a bit out of square. People are like that - and it wasn't until I could accept and love me as a whole - including my personal frailties and defects, those things that always seem to need work at the most inconvenient times, that I learned to do that with the woman who stood by my side during the darkest time I've known. She's not perfect, but she is perfect for me, her heart is my home. I am one lucky man.
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:57 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Rosabla......would you like a helpful hint....?
If you want to get a peek at the "real him".....spend a weekend wallpapering a small bathroom with him. The smaller the pattern---the better...

dandylion
Bwaahhhaa!! yep, that will do it! A month ago, my new guy and I were fixing his sprinklers and went shopping at Lowes. I figured that I'd get to see him in 'guy' mode fixing things around his house, etc and see how he handles the elusive 'find an employee who can help you at Lowes' thing. He passed my test, lol. No freak outs, no impatience, no mutterings under his breath when he bent the sprinkler head and I stood behind him keeping my mouth shut.
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:59 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Eddiebuckle View Post
For most of my life I understood love to be an emotion. In recovery I have learned it is a verb - a conscious action. If we are honest about it, the emotion we feel early in a relationship isn't love, it's infatuation. It's about a mythical person and a mythical state of eternal bliss. That bliss fades as we get to know all of this person in whom we're invested, sometimes it grows into something bigger and better, but usually it fades.

I spent most of my life thinking that I would know my home when I found it. I went through several houses, and they never quite cut it, and I moved on. Love is like consciously choosing a dwelling and saying - this is where I live, this is where I will sink my roots. It's a scary thing because, who knows? That roof may leak, and the foundation is a bit out of square. People are like that - and it wasn't until I could accept and love me as a whole - including my personal frailties and defects, those things that always seem to need work at the most inconvenient times, that I learned to do that with the woman who stood by my side during the darkest time I've known. She's not perfect, but she is perfect for me, her heart is my home. I am one lucky man.
Eddie, this was beautiful. Thank you for sharing!
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:10 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Re whoever talked about sex above, that is spot on. I'm not having sex again until I get married. Just another thing about myself that I'm cleaning up. Just my .02!
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:32 PM
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dandylion that is BRILLIANT!

hank and i have done three road trips from washington to wisconsin (seahawk and packer land), two times WITH the dog, in our subaru baja, a bit under 5000 miles round trip. and nobody got left at a rest stop!

it is true, the litmus test for a relationship is working HARD together on a project.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:44 PM
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@anvil-okay, I agree. Well then my ex and I renovated and added on to one house and then completely renovated another. Have made countless trips together driving from Texas to Colorado and back again. We survived those things and actually enjoyed each other during the projects. So we were good, right? We did have a good relationship-it was good. Damn-we could have really been something.
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:40 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Liz - just trust the process... if you honestly work your recovery, it all falls into place eventually. We are irretrievably broken only when we give up.
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:19 PM
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I am newly divorced now, and not really ready to date, but I must say it's nice to hear that there are "nice-stable" guys left out there! LOL. It seems that most of the guys I know, most of whom are acquaintances of my XAH, are guys I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole now!!

There are things I am still in love with, with my XAH, but I Think its because I am still romancing the young man he used to be in my mind. When we were first married or with young babies. Our lives were so simple then before the obsession with bars, alcohol, and his successes took over. I'd known him since age 14, I'm now 46. Talk about a LONG romance. I really felt he was my soul mate. Still feel he was meant to be that, but alcohol has destroyed that gift. From the sounds of it, many of you seem to feel that way- especially when you describe your former loves so deeply like that.

I am honestly hoping for a stable, but affectionate guy to come along when the time is right. I don't want boring, but I sure as heck don't want hyper, overly social and arrogant either. Been there done that. I am actually looking forward to even keel, but wonder as well if I will ever love the way I did with my XAH, my first love.

It's nice to hear though, that you ladies have found some kind of love again, even if its a different kind of love. It's certainly scary for us just coming into it. I have no idea what to expect.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:26 PM
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Woah woah woah.... slow down....
I seem to be the odd duck here. I just want to clarify for anyone reading and trying to find recovery that there is nothing wrong with sex and there is nothing wrong with liking sex and there is nothing wrong with wanting a partner who has relatively the same sexual appetite as you... and if it is higher than "average" that is okay too.

Just because many of us have had a horrific ordeal finding a mate doesn't mean the world is black and white between crazy sex feigns who are bad for us and then others who are "boring" but steady. There is an array of people out there and we are supposed to be different flavors. I totally understand this idea that 'boring must be better if it steady', but that is just an opinion and simply isn't true for all of us.
It took me years to stop feeling bad for who I am... as if I had a dysfunction for liking sex. Well there is nothing wrong with me. It's just me. And anyway, just because I like sex doesn't necessarily mean that I make bad choices.... and I have in my past... but as I have grown, my sex drive hasn't changed.
So please don't throw it all into a narrow tunnel; we have hoards of people reading this site and I for one don't want anyone feeling bad for wanting a partner who is sexually compatible.

Just so you know... I have dated a boring normie that was fantastic between the sheets...
And I have dated an addict who was terrible down there.
I had a great relationship with a normie where distance pulled us apart but he suffered from ED, and yes, it was a problem. It almost crossed my personal boundary of meeting what I need, but we worked around it.

I'm sorry for my passion about this but I just had to say something that wasn't being said. Thanx!
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:41 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LemonGirl View Post
Awe... I did this... Dated the guy for about a year and a half!
I wanted to say that it was boring, but in the end, it was his lack of intimacy (both time-spent together REALLY being present, and I my higher sex drive that drove us apart. We lived almost an hour apart and had really conflicting schedules too, so that added to the feeling of distance.

I used to be ashamed at how much I like sex... It was a part of me that I eventually just had to embrace. I LIKE SEX! And while I do agree about the adventurous sex part with 'crazies', there are also "normies" with high sex drives, and being sexually compatible IS actually a thing.

Sorry.... don't mean to skew what you were actually saying, however. I do get it. There is a sense of boring because of the lack of drama and it is just odd because it is different. I get you!
I meant to come back and address this with you because I didn't mean to say that my relationship is boring sexually with the new guy. He just isn't hyper sexual like my XAH was. Our chemistry is amazing and the sex is still really good and he meets my higher sex drive when needed, LOL. A short makeout session with him still gets me going and I'm physically attracted to him, as well.

He, himself, is NOT boring, either. I am just trying to adjust to someone who is not up and down then up , then down, then turned on by the fact that he's up and down, LOL. That was my XAH. He was all over the board; even when he was sober because he has mental health issues as well as the alcoholism.

So, with the new guy: he's absolutely the most level and consistent person with his actions and his behaviors and his attitudes that I find it boring because I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop like I did with the X. The sex is great and I have no complaints and I believe we are sexually compatible as well as compatible with our beliefs, our faith, our political views, and even in our parenting. Hmmm, too bad I won't see him until Monday because all this sex talk is putting me in the mood, bwaahhhaahha!
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:57 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
.... waiting for the other shoe to drop


Hmmm, too bad I won't see him until Monday because all this sex talk is putting me in the mood, bwaahhhaahha!
=) No worries here hun.

the other shoe dropping I think is a huge hurdle for my own recovery! No matter what situation I find myself in, I always feel like there is something just awful that is about to happen because it always has.
I have since taken to trying out positive affirmations and giving more belief in the good, positive things in my life, as opposed to all those chaotic times that hurt so much.

And, oh my! Monday comes tomorrow!!! Woot! LOL
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Old 07-26-2015, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LemonGirl View Post
=) No worries here hun.

the other shoe dropping I think is a huge hurdle for my own recovery! No matter what situation I find myself in, I always feel like there is something just awful that is about to happen because it always has.
I have since taken to trying out positive affirmations and giving more belief in the good, positive things in my life, as opposed to all those chaotic times that hurt so much.

And, oh my! Monday comes tomorrow!!! Woot! LOL
Amen, sister!!! Can't come soon enough!
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