exhausted, fed up, and agitated
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Forgive me if I missed it but I did not see anything in here about support beyond the doc and the (now missing) therapist. I can't believe I have turned into one of those damnable people who says go to Al-anon because I fought like hell to NOT start doing al-anon because being smarter than everyone else in the world I was certain my way would work out best.
Man oh man how God can swing that baseball bat and knock you out and wake you up at the same time.
Maybe you mentioned in a prior post that you don't have a group near you, if so I apologize but I had no idea how badly stress and anxiety and depression from stuffing down all the frustration and fear had changed me. I totally empathize with that feeling of not keeping up with it all and how hard it can be.
FWIW just a few months in Al-Anon and I am starting to feel like me again. I have two meetings each week and it's the best $2 therapy I can imagine because everyone in that room can relate to at least half of the others and that is rare and wonderful... Last week I saw people where I've been and really listened closely to people who are where I want to be once I work on the things that will make me who I wish to be - the guy whose actions reflect his heart and intentions. It was ...exhilarating .
Funny, it should not matter whether we are understood but it surely does feel good when you are talking through all that pain and confusion and frustration and the person sitting next to you understands completely because they have been there too. The folks who held me while I cried like a baby when I first went back to a meeting out of desperation are the ones patting me on the back now telling me how proud and happy it makes them to see the misery of that day changing each week as I've taken that long hard look in the mirror to realize what every single one of my problems has in common.
Man this humility and total honesty stuff sucks ;-) but it is cleansing and I needed the group to do it.
I think you might find it to be a game changer if there is a group you can try. I tried 3-4 four years ago and decided I did not need it. Life got out of control 4 years later despite the fact that my beloved RA is not drinking. As she got more sane I got crazier and today I see that the main difference we had is that she is allergic to booze and I'm not but since I don't drink it away or talk through it and work on me I went friggin nuts.
...now I'm down to mildly eccentric.
Man oh man how God can swing that baseball bat and knock you out and wake you up at the same time.
Maybe you mentioned in a prior post that you don't have a group near you, if so I apologize but I had no idea how badly stress and anxiety and depression from stuffing down all the frustration and fear had changed me. I totally empathize with that feeling of not keeping up with it all and how hard it can be.
FWIW just a few months in Al-Anon and I am starting to feel like me again. I have two meetings each week and it's the best $2 therapy I can imagine because everyone in that room can relate to at least half of the others and that is rare and wonderful... Last week I saw people where I've been and really listened closely to people who are where I want to be once I work on the things that will make me who I wish to be - the guy whose actions reflect his heart and intentions. It was ...exhilarating .
Funny, it should not matter whether we are understood but it surely does feel good when you are talking through all that pain and confusion and frustration and the person sitting next to you understands completely because they have been there too. The folks who held me while I cried like a baby when I first went back to a meeting out of desperation are the ones patting me on the back now telling me how proud and happy it makes them to see the misery of that day changing each week as I've taken that long hard look in the mirror to realize what every single one of my problems has in common.
Man this humility and total honesty stuff sucks ;-) but it is cleansing and I needed the group to do it.
I think you might find it to be a game changer if there is a group you can try. I tried 3-4 four years ago and decided I did not need it. Life got out of control 4 years later despite the fact that my beloved RA is not drinking. As she got more sane I got crazier and today I see that the main difference we had is that she is allergic to booze and I'm not but since I don't drink it away or talk through it and work on me I went friggin nuts.
...now I'm down to mildly eccentric.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I am going to share Butterfly that I also believe people can change. I am a picture of that. When I was 20/21/22 I was an absolute horror. Selfish, absorbed with my own needs and wants and not caring at all that I was hurting those who love me. I was in college and just doing my thing.
I did change. I am not sure why, I already lived outside my home, however with my parent's support. They agreed to give me X amount of dollars while I was in college. I did work, however I was a mess. Drinking, going out every night. Bad.
Time was a big factor for me. I eventually grew up and realized that I could not live like that. I made amends to my family and friends, and am 100% the complete opposite today. So my dear friend, I am only going to support you while you say that people can change. Will she...who knows. It may be that she can never live w/ you again. Only time will tell that. In the mean time, keep up the good work you are doing on YOU!!!
XXX
I did change. I am not sure why, I already lived outside my home, however with my parent's support. They agreed to give me X amount of dollars while I was in college. I did work, however I was a mess. Drinking, going out every night. Bad.
Time was a big factor for me. I eventually grew up and realized that I could not live like that. I made amends to my family and friends, and am 100% the complete opposite today. So my dear friend, I am only going to support you while you say that people can change. Will she...who knows. It may be that she can never live w/ you again. Only time will tell that. In the mean time, keep up the good work you are doing on YOU!!!
XXX
Originally Posted by Butterfly 
Im not angry Dandylion and I appreciate your support and advice. I suppose I believe people have the ability to change if given the choice and I hope that she can but if Im honest I dont think she can yet until she has learned to live on her own. We have had this conversation about her attitude and lack of responsibility around the house for a long time and nothing has changed.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I won't go back to that, that was how I lived with ex a!!
You go, Butterfly!!
Here's DD's deal - she's been sliding under the radar all these years with EXAH in your focal point. Now, she's an adult & accountable & has to grow up, seemingly overnight. (in her opinion, I'm sure)
In recovery, when we get stronger we essentially change the steps to a dance routine that everyone around us has gotten used to. Even when we shout out warnings, "Hey, I changed this next part!", they don't understand until you move a different way & they are left struggling to catch up.
You & DD have been waltzing through all of this for years & you suddenly started doing the foxtrot.
She's used to pitting you & your Ex against each other & now she's doing it again. She's threatens you with moving in with him (because she knows it hurts you & picks at a very sore wound when they "choose" him) & simultaneously makes him squirm with worry about having to step into his role as her father.
In reality, they are both adults that need to learn to deal with uncomfortable feelings. If this were me, I'd give DD a deadline to move. I wouldn't leave it up to her to yank my chain back & forth. Truth is, until she gets out on her own she's not going to respect what you go through so the sooner she gets to it, the better.
I wouldn't play intermediary with her & your Ex. Let THEM work out the details of this move. Let HER figure out furniture what to move & how. Just keep reminding her of the ticking of that countdown clock.......... at her age she is MORE than capable, she just hasn't had to prove it anyone yet. (including herself)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oxford, England
Posts: 38
"I don't want her to move out...."
hello Butterfly, I'm a little late on the scene here but you are getting some great advice from others and i see how you are changing within yourself, making great progress.
You are moving forward if you can hold firm on your decision that DD should move out. It's called tough love. If you let her back, it will screw up again and you will be annoyed with yourself!
This sassy lady is 21 and old enough to be a fully responsible adult.
She has had a genuine offer of accommodation from her dad and even if she is only there a short time, she's out of your hair. Your job is done. You have raised a daughter and now she has to learn how to live in the world without you and you have to let her go............
Welcome the pain that you will inevitably feel when she has moved her stuff out and is round with your ex. Welcome the tranquillity that will gradually spill into every corner of your house. Embrace tough love and model it for your daughter so she can do the same for her children.....
You are moving forward if you can hold firm on your decision that DD should move out. It's called tough love. If you let her back, it will screw up again and you will be annoyed with yourself!
This sassy lady is 21 and old enough to be a fully responsible adult.
She has had a genuine offer of accommodation from her dad and even if she is only there a short time, she's out of your hair. Your job is done. You have raised a daughter and now she has to learn how to live in the world without you and you have to let her go............
Welcome the pain that you will inevitably feel when she has moved her stuff out and is round with your ex. Welcome the tranquillity that will gradually spill into every corner of your house. Embrace tough love and model it for your daughter so she can do the same for her children.....
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 88
I feel the same way!
ITs hard to recognize our own progress when everything seem to be falling apart. but i think that coming here in itself is a great thing. and I know that hwen I feel not so great this is where I come!
Knowing that I will never take a drink again is a miz of emotions... I am proud of myself for coming to terms with the issue but i am also realizing how sad, lonely and lifeless I have become... I have to admit it is definitely due to alcohol... as it has added to my own personal problems.. although feels great at the time sure sucks the next day.
Keep on Keeping on!!
We can all do this
ITs hard to recognize our own progress when everything seem to be falling apart. but i think that coming here in itself is a great thing. and I know that hwen I feel not so great this is where I come!
Knowing that I will never take a drink again is a miz of emotions... I am proud of myself for coming to terms with the issue but i am also realizing how sad, lonely and lifeless I have become... I have to admit it is definitely due to alcohol... as it has added to my own personal problems.. although feels great at the time sure sucks the next day.
Keep on Keeping on!!
We can all do this
Baby Steps
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,689
Thank you everyone
Pohsfriend I am in alanon well on and off for a few months but trying to go regularly even if it's only once a week.
Hopeful, thank you I don't think she will be able to change just yet she is still young although an adult, she's more focused on herself and her wants and needs.
Thank you Firesprite you are so right, my focus was on ex a always jumping to her defence when he was shouting and roaring at her for not doing her chores or for some other silly reason that annoyed him. I realised tonight that if I got home from work before he did and her chores weren't done and she wasn't home I'd run about getting them all done so he wouldn't shout so that maybe he wouldn't go into a bad mood when he came home. This hasn't taught her any responsibility actually it taught her that il pick up after her and shield her from consequences! And yes she has told me one thing then him something else using the fact that we don't talk.
She said she will be going straight to her dads from the airport after her holiday, I might contact ex a and tell him to arrange that with her. The two of them can then sort out how and what she will be taking to his. She's only been gone a few days but the house is already so much more peaceful. She can be so lovely kind and thoughtful at times so her attitude and behaviour the rest of the time is so much more frustrating. I almost feel that she is trying to be in charge in the house and she certainly wants things done her way in her timescale and maybe with me an emotional wreck for so long she has felt that she has had to take charge, oh I don't know!!
Thank you jezzebelle I so want my home to feel tranquil
Pohsfriend I am in alanon well on and off for a few months but trying to go regularly even if it's only once a week.
Hopeful, thank you I don't think she will be able to change just yet she is still young although an adult, she's more focused on herself and her wants and needs.
Thank you Firesprite you are so right, my focus was on ex a always jumping to her defence when he was shouting and roaring at her for not doing her chores or for some other silly reason that annoyed him. I realised tonight that if I got home from work before he did and her chores weren't done and she wasn't home I'd run about getting them all done so he wouldn't shout so that maybe he wouldn't go into a bad mood when he came home. This hasn't taught her any responsibility actually it taught her that il pick up after her and shield her from consequences! And yes she has told me one thing then him something else using the fact that we don't talk.
She said she will be going straight to her dads from the airport after her holiday, I might contact ex a and tell him to arrange that with her. The two of them can then sort out how and what she will be taking to his. She's only been gone a few days but the house is already so much more peaceful. She can be so lovely kind and thoughtful at times so her attitude and behaviour the rest of the time is so much more frustrating. I almost feel that she is trying to be in charge in the house and she certainly wants things done her way in her timescale and maybe with me an emotional wreck for so long she has felt that she has had to take charge, oh I don't know!!
Thank you jezzebelle I so want my home to feel tranquil
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Butterfly, try to resist the temptation to tell your ex that DD is coming straight from the airport. Couple of things:
- let her make the arrangements herself. If you start jumping in there smoothing the way she won't thank you, and she'll also interpret that she's not capable herself, which she is.
- if you start talking to your ex, nicely, you could be sucked in again to liking him in your life, and that's not going anywhere for you.
Glad things are peaceful at home. Your ideas about how this was caused by past behaviour are probably spot on, but not relevant for now. It's her challenge to grow up, and getting feedback from you and a range of other people (say in a share house), is how she'll learn what's acceptable. The past is the past.
- let her make the arrangements herself. If you start jumping in there smoothing the way she won't thank you, and she'll also interpret that she's not capable herself, which she is.
- if you start talking to your ex, nicely, you could be sucked in again to liking him in your life, and that's not going anywhere for you.
Glad things are peaceful at home. Your ideas about how this was caused by past behaviour are probably spot on, but not relevant for now. It's her challenge to grow up, and getting feedback from you and a range of other people (say in a share house), is how she'll learn what's acceptable. The past is the past.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Butterfly....I very much think that FeelingGreat is making a good point.
This is their "thing". This is a very clear example of something that is
on "their side of the street". A part of recovery is becoming clear as to which matters belong to you (and, therefore, your responsibility) and which belong to other people (and, thus--their responsibility).
A person can eliminate a great deal of conflict from life by just developing a clear understanding of this.
It can eliminate hundreds of hours of doubt and worry and hand-wringing by knowing when to step aside from other people's affairs.
Mark this for sure: Every time you "rescue" when you are not needed...you will eventually go from rescuer to victim...before the matter is over!
That did not come from dandylion----that is a big message from the book "Co-dependent No More"
On the same vein----Every time you do something for someone else that they could and should be doing for themselves--you are enabling. The enabler also becomes the victim --in the end.
Your husband and daughter are perfectly capable to work this out between themselves. If you interject yourself into the middle of it....Butterfly, you are creating a terrible triangulation. In a triangle--they can both work it against you.
DANGER---BACK UP 200 FEET (osha warning from american construction sites)
dandylion
dandylion
This is their "thing". This is a very clear example of something that is
on "their side of the street". A part of recovery is becoming clear as to which matters belong to you (and, therefore, your responsibility) and which belong to other people (and, thus--their responsibility).
A person can eliminate a great deal of conflict from life by just developing a clear understanding of this.
It can eliminate hundreds of hours of doubt and worry and hand-wringing by knowing when to step aside from other people's affairs.
Mark this for sure: Every time you "rescue" when you are not needed...you will eventually go from rescuer to victim...before the matter is over!
That did not come from dandylion----that is a big message from the book "Co-dependent No More"
On the same vein----Every time you do something for someone else that they could and should be doing for themselves--you are enabling. The enabler also becomes the victim --in the end.
Your husband and daughter are perfectly capable to work this out between themselves. If you interject yourself into the middle of it....Butterfly, you are creating a terrible triangulation. In a triangle--they can both work it against you.
DANGER---BACK UP 200 FEET (osha warning from american construction sites)
dandylion
dandylion
Baby Steps
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,689
Thanks Feelinggreat and Dandylion. I havent contacted ex a yet and your right I shouldnt this is up to them to sort out. I just have a feeling she will arrive home after her holiday as if nothing has happened. If this is the case I will remind her of her decision and inform her to discuss with her dad when she will be moving in.
This stepping back is such a new concept for me lol. Although I thought about contacting ex a last night I didnt, and usually i would have just to have everything sorted, so he knew what he was to do, I know trying to control everything but I am beginning to figure out that this isnt helpful and i can only control me!! Maybe i didnt as I was just back from my first Yoga class and was so relaxed or the increase in my medication is really helping with my obsessive thinking who knows I will just accept how I feel now and should that change i will work on that.
This stepping back is such a new concept for me lol. Although I thought about contacting ex a last night I didnt, and usually i would have just to have everything sorted, so he knew what he was to do, I know trying to control everything but I am beginning to figure out that this isnt helpful and i can only control me!! Maybe i didnt as I was just back from my first Yoga class and was so relaxed or the increase in my medication is really helping with my obsessive thinking who knows I will just accept how I feel now and should that change i will work on that.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Butterfly great the medication is helping; that's really good news as theses things aren't guaranteed. Also yoga class - you are really working it
If DD says she'll go from the airport chances are she will. But you will be there to remind her, and maybe give a little push if she tries to back down.
If DD says she'll go from the airport chances are she will. But you will be there to remind her, and maybe give a little push if she tries to back down.
Baby Steps
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,689
First yoga class really enjoyed it very relaxing and really helped me keep the focus on my breathing and off any thoughts running round my head. The increase in medication has made me very tired but Im hoping that is just in the interim while I get use to them and I ve found i havent been obsessing as much and able to just let go. Hopefully I will be able to stay on this path.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Originally Posted by Butterfly
Which is probably why she kicks off every time I say anything to her in the hope that i wont keep reminding her of her repsonsibilities, although if Im honest I dont say it as often and I have let her off many times and even do things myself as its less hassle. This is my responsibility to change!
Now you have said "my home, my rules". I think your Ex, whom you have stated has had little if any responsibility with the kids, is about to have some life changing experiences with a young adult. Hee hee hee.
Very happy that you have stood up for yourself and done this it takes a lot of guts.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,417
Yoga itself can be life-changing in terms of grounding and getting in touch with yourself and your feelings.
My own yoga practice began very gradually when I stopped drinking,
I stopped for awhile when my teacher left, but this Summer I have begun
again and I am finding it so helpful physically, mentally, and emotionally
I am now going 2-3 times a week.
So glad you are trying it!
My own yoga practice began very gradually when I stopped drinking,
I stopped for awhile when my teacher left, but this Summer I have begun
again and I am finding it so helpful physically, mentally, and emotionally
I am now going 2-3 times a week.
So glad you are trying it!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by Butterfly
First yoga class really enjoyed it very relaxing and really helped me keep the focus on my breathing and off any thoughts running round my head. The increase in medication has made me very tired but Im hoping that is just in the interim while I get use to them and I ve found i havent been obsessing as much and able to just let go. Hopefully I will be able to stay on this path.
Definitely let your Ex & DD figure all their own stuff out - her trip, his schedule - blah. Stepping back IS difficult, but like anything else it gets easier in time. More time for you for your new activities!
Yoga is PERFECT for exactly the reasons you stated - you're actually so busy paying attention to learning & holding the poses that you don't have time to think about all the stuff you're working through. Yoga helped me with meditation & meditation helped me with yoga - my favorite class incorporates both in a more traditional method of practice. My best friend keeps resisting starting yoga because she "can't slow down like that" - I just laugh & tell her one day she'll be ready to see that it is more than her assumptions.
When I am stressed & full of emotion I hit my mat - I keep them everywhere now. An old one in the office, in my van, my new one at home. On my mat I pray, I think, I sweat it out. My boss pokes fun that I can't do a 3-day business trip with just a simple carry-on & I don't care... I'm not going that far from home without my mat. Especially since between travelling & the long hours sitting in seminars & workshops, I need it more than ever.
This was a FANTASTIC choice for you to make for your self-care, I hope you stick with it!
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