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exhausted, fed up, and agitated

Old 07-25-2015, 08:32 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I agree with Hawkeye, lots of good suggestions. It seems that your daughter is still acting like a balky adolescent - kind of a power struggle with you as adult/mom.

Probably time to both change your attitudes and see her as an adult sharing a home with you, not an adolescent you have to prod. Maybe have a discussion with both your kids, write up a contract of what your daughter will do in, including rent, in exchange for living there. It will be a rude shock for her if she has to move out and do everything on her own.

With your son, at 17 and with a license, he can be expected to pull his share. Maybe review co-dependence with an eye to the fact that your kids are now adults, or just about. My thought is that our job as parents is to help our kids grow up to be as self sufficient as they can be. I'd start by telling them that you are now three adults/semi-adults living together, and it is time for them to pull their weight.

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Old 07-25-2015, 10:37 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Well I came home after having a lovely relaxing day, went to alanon, went into town for a bit of window shopping and received a complimentary makeover came home and DD. was here so I plucked up the courage to talk to her. How mad is that that I need to pluck up courage to talk to my 21 yr old daughter!!

Very calmly I walked in told her I love her But that I wasn't prepared to live in my home with her attitude any longer, her moods and the way she spoke to me. Of course she rolled her eyes and with the attitude of a 15 yr old said like what I haven't done anything wrong!!!! Still staying calm but wanting to reach across the bed and throttle her I said about how she doesn't help out in the house, of course she said she does, raised the issue about dishes and she said she will do the dishes when she wants to which I reminded her it doesn't work that way. I spoke to her about accepting responsibility for her actions to which she said again she hasn't done anything and all I do is go on at her about doing the dishes!! I said to her sweetheart we are going to end up having a big fall out and I don't want that, her reply your right we are!!??

I gave her 3 options either she lives in the house as part of the family and chips in to help out, she lives here as a lodger and does her own cooking, washing and cleaning up after herself or she moves out!

Her reply was she's moving out she can't live here anymore! I said well I think that's a good idea as I don't want to fall out with you and think you should go live with your dad she said she would. So apparently when she comes back from her holiday she will be going straight to live with him!!!

Let's see if he puts up with her behaviour, when he was at home he was constantly on her back about not doing things round the house always shouting at her but it appears that dear daddy is so wonderful at the minute and can do no wrong!!!!!

I think she was taken aback when I said about her moving out and when she said she would that I said it was a good idea. Normally she throws that into an argument and I back off.

I've texted ex a and told him she's going to live with him he hasn't replied yet!!
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:11 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Well done--now leave it to them to work out and stay out of it.

DD will expect you to retract, and back down, but tell her to get packing and to make her own arrangements with her Dad for getting her stuff moved.

Stick to your guns Butterfly, and start thinking about cleaning up the room with a fresh coat of paint and renting it to a student this Fall.

You will both be much happier but don't let her talk you around to status quo. . . she's used to manipulating you like that so be preemptive and set a clear boundary
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:18 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Thanks hawkeye. I will be leaving it up to him and DD to sort I texted him last night to let him know he replied this afternoon asking if I wanted to fill him in on what's been going on?!?! I really wanted to say well I wouldn't need to fill you in if you'd bothered being any type of a father and hadn't just walked away from your responsibilities but I didn't I just told him what has been going on. He said she can come stay with him and it might do her some good as he wouldn't take any of her sh*t and it won't be long before she's running home with her tail between her legs!! He was supposed to collect her early hours of this morning to take her to the airport as she's away on holiday, he cancelled on her, obviously having a drink was more important but yet hasn't missed driving 70 miles today for his nieces birthday but then he can drink up their!! Priorities!!

Anyway I kept the conversation about DD only and didn't bring us up once or his drinking I didn't even ask anything about him!!!!!
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:38 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Butterfly....these are MAJOR credits to you and your recovery! I am so super proud of you. For you to stay calm and have that conversation with her, and to speak to her dad about it without bringing in any other issues, wow. I know how hard that is. I am so happy for you. I know sometimes you feel stuck, like your not moving forward. I hope you can read your own post and recognize how far you have come my dear friend!

Much love and tight hugs to you!
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:51 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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What hopeful said! You ARE making progress. I know it's frustrating when it isn't as fast/complete as we want, but I'm proud of ya!
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:59 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Butterfly, good for you, having that talk with your daughter and not backing down on her moving out. I also like Hawkeye's suggestions about getting a paying tenant in to help with expenses.

Hang in there, you're doing great even if you don't feel like you are. You are!
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:07 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Butterfly, I'm furious at your DD on your behalf, but also understanding as I went through the almost identical scenario. If we were sitting in a coffee shop exchanging stories we'd probably be there all day, lol.
But good on you, she needs a reality check and at least she has her father to run to. He must be panicking badly by now Can I suggest you stay right out of how they sort themselves out, no matter how it transpires?
Do you see her trying to wriggle out of it once she's cooled down a bit on holiday? If she asks to stay, make her write out a list of what she's willing to do (rather than you tell her). I found getting my DD to actually tell me what she thought was fair meant she stuck to it much more closely, because she had come up with it. And it wasn't a bad list of jobs either.
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Old 07-27-2015, 09:19 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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You did great. Really
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:18 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Butterfly, I think that there are a couple important points for you to keep at the top of your mind through this.....
1. You will have a better quality relationship with your daughter one year from now if you don't cave and let her continue to live there. Oh, she may be furious with you at first (for sure).....but, she will never appreciate what you do for her or respect you properly until she is away from you.

2. This will be her first chance to learn to live life on life's terms. She will need that ability if you were not there---for some reason. She needs the gift of independence which she has not yet l earned.

If you do not cave--you will be doing a good thing for yourself and your daughter.

I think this has the potential for being the best possible thing!

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Old 07-27-2015, 02:56 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Thank you everyone, after my conversation with ex a I did feel good!

Feelinggreat yes I do think she will try to wriggle out of it she won't want to live with her dad and she may think that it will all be forgotten about and we can go back to how it was. I don't want her to move out but I won't live in my own home feeling anxious and scared to say anything, I won't go back to that, that was how I lived with ex a!! If she does decide she doesn't want to live with her dad there will have to be big changes and should she slip back to her old ways she will have to go and I will lay this out straight to her!!

I do think she needs to live on her own to see the reality of life and I do think our relationship will improve once she hasn't been living at home for a while.

Yes I think he will be panicking he doesn't want to have to deal with any responsibilities. He told me yesterday that she can stay with him for a while while she figures out what she wants to do!! Although he will like the extra money she will give him but he will not want her there interfering in his life!!
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:41 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Butterfly....I want to share with you that I feel you are laying your own trap to fall into. Not fully conscious of this, of course. I think that, understandably your attachment to your daughter and your fear of lonliness if she were not with you are powerful forces that underlie this.
Look--every parent know the thought of your child moving from the house for the first time pulls hard on the heart strings and causes some (transient) tears to flow. It does pass...fairly quickly...but, again it is the necessary short-term pain for the long term gain!

I can already see the prediction---she will move with the Dad. She will become unhappy and run to you to "rescue" her. Your heart will fill with warm feelings that come from your visions of the "mended" mother-child relationship. Visions of you and her living in a cozy nest of companionship and co-operation.
And, truly, it might look like it is "working" as first. She will be on good behavior until she gets firmly rooted back into the house, again. She may agreeably sign a list of responsibilities, etc.
But, Butterly, I strongly caution you that the honeymoon will be brief---and your resultant disappointment will be verrrry acute. The same old conflicts and eye-rolling will begin again and the arguments will be more intense, the second time around.

Butterfly, you are probably asking how I can be so sure of this...and how I can be so arrogant.
Over the years, I have watched this scenario play out over and over and over. And I experienced the same thing, myself with one of my children.
Those well written out lists of responsibilities, etc....always turn to molded and forgotten oeices of paper that signify nothing but a failure to recognize the fundamental flaws in the arrangements.
Those flaws, for the most part are these (1) the deep seated fear of losing the love of the child--a strong separation anxiety...a fear of abandonment....
This is a normal feeling for most parents...but, should not be a reason to keep the child hobbled to the parent for a lifetime...
(2) the overly developed sense of entitlement and dependence on the part of the child. You daughter has had you do for her for all her life. To be totally responsibile for herself probably scares the pee out of her...lol. She still has to learn to be self reliant. You will not always be there to care for her for her whole life.

Just laying out the ground rules to her for the second time around will not work. That is, basically, what I am trying to say to you.
Just "inviting" her to live with her Dad cannot be a manioulation to scare her enough for her to return to the nest with a m ore compliant attitude.
LOL! You see this all the time, here, on this forum, between the alcoholic and the frustrated mate. First, things reach the boiling point and she requests him to leave because she can't live like that any more. He moves out. Her anger level decreases an is replaced by lonliness and missing him. He calls and says how miserable he is and how sorry he is for his actions. She caves---allows the return and promises are made....and there is a brief honeymoon. But, the underlying problem is not addressed....and the alcoholism slowly returns the situation back to the boiling point again.
You said, yourself...you do not "want" her to move out.

Butterfly, I am asking you to think hard about this. If you allow her to come back, you will be denying her the opportunity to become truly independent and mature,
You will have to be willing to tolerate the short-term pain (for yourself) in order to accomplish this.

Now, that I have said all this...I will make even further prediction----you will definitely allow her back into the house under the excuse that you believe that she has "learned her lesson" and you will declare that y ou will kick her out if she should backslide.
O.K.
However, you will not be allowed to complain when the situation becomes unbearable, again.
You will have to say...."Dandylion warned me of this and I cannot say that I did not know what to expect. I don't get to be the victim".

I realize that I am the one who seems to be raining on your parade. I am trying to present you with reality....this stuf is never easy for any of us....

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Old 07-27-2015, 03:44 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Thanks hopeful & lexiecat. Sometimes I don't see the progress I've made in my recovery and yes feel it's moving fast enough!! Even reading old posts I don't always see it but I am trying to look at my behaviours and thinking processes and keeping the focus on me and not letting the negative and obsessive thoughts take over but thinking about what is good for me, what do I need and why I think/behave the way I do. If any of this makes sense, still a work in progress and still more confused days than clear but again one day at a time and focus on one thing at a time. But trying to ask more why/how of myself and doing what's best for me, my family, our happiness and my recovery.
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:57 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Thank you dandylion. If I'm honest I'm relieved she's moving out and I hope it will improve our relationship. But I'm not doing this to teach her a lesson, she can't live here while her attitude continues the way it has. Will I let her come home if she is unhappy, Give her a 2nd chance I don't know, I can't answer that. I'm aware that if she does come home there will be the honeymoon period and if it goes wrong then I will deal with it.

I don't mean to come across as a victim.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:08 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Butterfly.....I am telling you that her attitude WILL continue to be what it is now.
If she bommerangs back for the 2nd time....things with reach the same water table, again, quicker than you can say "Wee Willie Winkle". And the disappointment is worse. the second time around.

That she is "unhappy" is not a good reason to let her come back. Kids can get unhappy as soon as things become uneasy for them. She gets unhappy just because she has to wash dishes...lol. Of course, she will ask for a 2nd chance. You already know that she will.

Look...you are really angry, right now (understandably) and you sound very weak in your ability to hold the boundary......when you say "I don't know"...says that. If you were firm in your resolve you wouldn't be even
be saying that.
You have to be firm in your intentions to hold your boundaries....else, they will sense it and manipulate you to the hilt.

I am not saying that you are playing a victim, right n ow. But if you find yourself in this situation for a second time....you won't be able to say it happened to you--as the outcome of all of this is within your hands to control.

I know that I am not saying the popular words. I am try ing to save you more grief down the road.
You will have a much better relationship when she isn't l iving under your wing...lol.

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Old 07-27-2015, 07:43 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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I agree with dandylion that you should not let her move back in--tell her you want her to develop her independence and you want peace and no stress in your living environment.

It is your house, and you call the shots.
It will be really hard to let go, but it is the best thing for both of you at this point.

She won't change and grow and she will fall back into her old habits.
Well, those habits will not serve her when she begins a family of her own.
Better she should learn now the value of taking care of her own self and her home without expecting others to do it for her.
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:28 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Thank you Dandylion and Hawkeye.

Im not angry Dandylion and I appreciate your support and advice. I suppose I believe people have the ability to change if given the choice and I hope that she can but if Im honest I dont think she can yet until she has learned to live on her own. We have had this conversation about her attitude and lack of responsibility around the house for a long time and nothing has changed.

I would be happier if she was going to live on her own rather than with her dad but that was her choice before she went on holiday. She has no concept of financial responsibility, never pays her bills, has run up credit card debts, then tries to blame me for it as I enjoy shopping!! She prefers to buy clothes and go out, and while I think young people should be young and enjoy life there are certain responsibilities!! She wants to go back to college again this year, reduce her working hours and while I would support her she has attended college for 3 different courses and never completed one of them!

Ex a told ds last night "I dont know why she wants to move in here, she wont be able to bring all her stuff etc" I think he will try to talk her out of it he wont want her around and accept responsibility for her living with him, he wants to live in his own wee world and see the kids when he choses.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:01 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
I don't want her to move out but I won't live in my own home feeling anxious and scared to say anything, I won't go back to that, that was how I lived with ex a!!
Yes to this. How do they make us feel like we can't say anything right? You are spot on refusing to walk on eggshells in your own home any more.

I'm sure she will eventually grow out of this, but that doesn't mean she should get a free pass until she sees the light.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:06 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Which is probably why she kicks off every time I say anything to her in the hope that i wont keep reminding her of her repsonsibilities, although if Im honest I dont say it as often and I have let her off many times and even do things myself as its less hassle. This is my responsibility to change!
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:15 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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You can do it
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