Praying

Hi, I'd just like to add that my RA is the type who "wasn't an alcoholic" because he could just "quit when he wanted to". Sure! But he couldn't make it last. I think the longest stretch was 8 months or so. It took a lot for him to finally embrace alcoholism, and it was long after he quit to prove he could (several times).

And my X was the kind who could make me think he quit, who told me the counselor (and everyone else) said things they didn't...never occurred to me he would lie about what the counselor said. I just believed it.

If your husband hid things and lied, got super angry and defensive when confronted, then when you left followed it up with an AA meeting... My two cents is that it appears he knows deep down he has a problem, but isn't ready to really address things.

It's okay to do the right thing for you. Give it more time and see what develops. Hugs to you!

garfiild

Yep, I remember that stage too. It's particularly hard to imagine that the A is lying about what the counselor said when the A "repeats" it with such conviction. For example, in the middle of a disagreement and the A starts "quoting" therapist to make a point.

Eventually I realized, my A lies to other people routinely. About things that I say (even when I'm in earshot), about things the A has said / done, about what others have said - all to suit A's purpose at the moment. If A lies to other people about things I say (even though this misrepresents me and sometimes makes me look TERRIBLE to others), then OF COURSE A will lie about what the therapist said.

Sometimes I think A just doesn't hear what people ACTUALLY say, rather A just hears what A wants to hear (in which case A is not consciously lying). Or A seizes on some small thing that supports A's version of reality, and blows that up. Ultimately it doesn't matter, bottom line is that A often does not accurately convey what other people say.

Now that I see this fact, my ears literally turn off the moment A tells me anything that anyone else said. If I didn't hear it myself, it's most likely just the A's own opinions/thoughts, or manipulative BS designed to get me to think or do something because "someone else" said XYZ....

petmagnet

Oh man, you seem a lot like me. I also believe your Husband is most likely an alcoholic. Probably a similar type to my now XAH. My XAH is a highly functioning binge alcoholic. We were married nearly 24 years, 11 of that was him binge drinking. He can go days or even a weeks, to prove a point, if it benefits him, but then always returns to the same pattern of drinking and getting wasted once he thinks he's in the clear. He is a master at manipulation. Even to the point of manipulating and telling counselors exactly what they want to hear and then going about his own agenda and made up course of recovery, using AA mantras to actually perpetuate his drinking. His favorite to throw in my face was "progress, but not perfection". Always Quacking!

I went back on Face Book for the first time in 4 months to find that he is still passing himself off as Mr. "normal" to his former sponsor, (who I know isn't buying it). But, guess who I saw was his latest friend, and LIKING photos of him where I know for a fact that he was totally blotto at a 4th of July party....His freakin' substance abuse counselor of 2 years. ( He even had a beer bottle sticking out of his pocket in the pic) UNBELIEABLE!! I have no qualms in saying that many counselors are worthless, because they are not seeing things first hand or experiencing it. If your hubby is a smooth talker, it's very likely that he's made his case work for him...so, if you feel he is an alcoholic and the alcohol is causing problems in your relationship and family, then yes, he has a problem. Don't be fooled.

I lost sight of normal, what a "normal" drinker is. But being out of the chaos, and with some of my old buddies, I have re-learned that it is not normal to have to sit nor even want to drink 5-6 beers on a slow night, and then drink 12-20 beers on a "party" night. Maybe with a recovery day thrown in between here and there. Our own thinking and reasoning gets just as distorted as theirs. We begin to think everyone does this...mainly because a lot of their friends do the same thing, in my case his friends were some of my friends and I felt abnormal cuz I don't drink like them....But, guess what, I am not abnormal, they are! They find ways to feed their addiction thru justification. They find ways to support their behavior thru like friends and manipulation.

I was one that went to a few ALANON meetings, but it never stuck for me. I may go back now that I am not in the mix of the disease actively. I did do a 4 day intensive class at Hazelden for family and I have read countless books on co-dependency and Alcoholism. I'm very much an introvert and that just seemed to fit me better at the time, which was to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible. We all find what works for us. I would say to try more meetings, but also to read, read, read! Keep coming on here, you will find so many stories and situations that echo your own and make the self doubting crazies disappear. I feel for you, I've been in your shoes. But, I can tell you your gut is a powerful thing, if you know it's a problem, it is. Counselors mean well, but I do not believe they always are privy to the real situation due to other factors in play. Only you can decide what it is you need. And the only thing you can change is YOU. I don't mean to preach, but I know exactly how you feel especially with the counselor. I was just sick when I saw the FB thing. My point, is do not doubt yourself nor let anyone tell you differently from what you know to be true.

garfiild

I vividly remember listening to A ramble on for about 45 minutes about a phone conversation with A's attorney (about A's attempt to get disability benefits instead of getting a job - something that I have NOT supported since A is not, IMO, disabled). A went into painstaking detail about what the attorney said, what the attorney had already done, what the attorney was going to do, the legitimacy of the disability claim, how attorney was also going to sue various doctors for malpractice, how big cash settlements were just months away, blah blah blah. I was half listening while also watching TV, as I knew it was a big load of quack.

Later, out of curiosity, I pulled the phone records. Took me no time at all to see that, in fact, A had placed one single call to the attorney's office. The call was made that day (a Saturday), about five minutes before A walked into the house, and it lasted a minute - long enough to get the attorney's message system, I assume. I later realized that A had, in reality, been hanging out and drinking with an A friend who has personal experience working "the system" to get benefits. Nice that my A's unemployed and almost-homeless alcoholic/addict friend could so quickly and easily be "transformed" into an experienced and reputable downtown plaintiff's lawyer with his own practice!

I laughed out loud when I realized what had happened. And I kinda enjoyed asking A for updates "from the attorney" for weeks afterward. It was particularly interesting that I even asked A about this when A was completely sober, yet the ridiculous fiction was maintained. My point being that A's lie about things in ways that just wouldn't even cross my mind to do, and the lies aren't necessarily just when the A is drunk. It's a symptom of a very unhealthy soul. Mental illness indeed!

hopeful4

I credit all of the healing that I have experienced to Celebrate Recovery. It's a great program to try out if you are a faith based person!

velma929

I like the explanation, "If drinking is causing you problems, you are a problem drinker."
Three weeks is nothing.

Hawkeye13

Three weeks was only a "moderate break" between binges when I was drinking.

Dig68

Last night, after another gut feeling that I thought he really hadn't completely stopped drinking, he admitted he has had some but not many. Said he did good for probably 2 weeks. I am thinking that after the counselor, he started having a few. Says he has never been drunk or close to it during the 3 weeks he has been gone. All I wanted was for him to admit he had a problem and I would have backed him and stuck it out if he would take this seriously and get help. The way I think is, when you love someone you would do anything in this world for them. He won't admit anything and therefore I can't see how this is ever going to work. He won't get REAL help to make this right again.

Mango blast

Not admitting to the problem isn't simply because he's being stubborn. It's a part of the disease.

What I couldn't see when I was pushing for my husband to do something about his problems, was that I had problems that I
could be doing something about. I have been so blind and unwilling to see how much I needed help. I self-isolated a lot. All the learning I did on my own was a great jumping board for when I was willing to give in person meetings a try.

I succeeded in getting my husband to admit to the problem, to go to rehab twice last year, and yet thise were tiny stepping stones and he's relapsed many times. What is finally helping our dysfunctional dynamics is for me to learn how to take care of myself, to heal, to change my own thoughts and behaviors, and through that EVERYTHING is changing.

Alcoholism is a family disease and a disease of perceptions. It's as cunning and baffling for me with how my mind is working, as it is for my husband. I cannot, could not, refused to see while my brain was/is focused on him.

I didn't like 12 step programs when I started. Now I'm looking forward to meetings and finding a lot of wonderful things about myself, life, and my husband -- whether he is drinking or not. He wasn't last week, reality is he may be next week. He's now wanting to be sober yet isn't doing a recovery program. That's his journey, not mine.

In the past, there have been people who've tried to tell me exactly what's wrong with me, mostly my husband's bosses. I'm needing my own time to discover what's in me. There's more good than I thought, and I've come to find safe place to deal with the rest.

My husband's addiction counselors, those he went to rehab with, people he met through AA... they don't judge him. They understand in ways I'll never be able to. Whether there is a beer or other drink in his hand, or if he's clean and sober, they care about him. I'm really glad he has that, even when he doesn't know it.

Mango blast

Yes, watch his actions not his words. I completely agree with everything except the last sentence about caring for his family.

Anvil, I hope you don't mind me quoting this. It really struck home for me.

This disease is irrational, illogical and counter-intuitive.

My husband truly loves me and our kids, and yet love did not cause, can't control and can't cure this disease any more than I can. There is hope. Yet, it's good for me to realize love is not enough.