Porto

I'm really not sure how to start my story. I was in a relationship with an alcoholic (he's in his mid-50's). I say was because he just ended things last night.

We met through family (he works for a family member of mine) and I was instantly attracted to him because he was handsome, hardworking and charismatic. I feel stupid for saying this, but I was the pursuer and that affected my self-esteem from the beginning because I always felt as if I wasn't good enough (I mean if I were wouldn't he automatically be with me?). He always had excuses about why he couldn't date me: he was too busy, I was too young for him, he was further along in his career than I was, I didn't have some of the material things he did, etc.

We did finally go on dates and he said he was happy. He said he was just afraid because he'd been alone for so long and wanted to maintain his simple life.

What struck me as odd: when we were face to face our chemistry was off of the charts and we both acknowledged this. But when he would get home he became cold and cruel, commenting again on the fact that I didn't own my own home and would look better if I lost 5-10 pounds. Little hurtful things like that. I never understood why he was so different at home.

One night he called me and said he couldn't be with me but it was hard for him to tell me face to face because he couldn't control his emotions until he was away from me. I noticed he was slurring his words and I asked him if he was drinking. He said yes and then said, "That's the other thing; I'm an alcoholic." He said he used to drink a 12 pack per day and was down to 6-packs but occasionally went up to 12 when he was stressed.

I felt so sorry for him because I'd never met an alcoholic and of course I said I wanted to help him. We decided to stay together that night. Everything was okay for awhile. He's a smoker as well (a pack and a half on most days) and he felt like he had to change to be with me. He tried not to smoke or drink around me. I told him it wasn't safe for him to completely stop the alcohol (sometimes we were together all day and overnight) and if he wanted to stop he needed to wean off while in treatment.

He wasn't interested in any treatment. He said he was going to drink until he died because he didn't care. He has an adult daughter (younger than me) who lives 30 min away and sees him once or twice per year. I'm sure his alcoholism is the factor. He said he drinks when he's lonely but when he's sober he'll deny he ever said that. He has been single for several years and has said he wants to die alone and doesn't want a relationship.

We did have some bumps in the road, mostly because I found him to be a little condescending and controlling. He wanted me to cover up more, wear less makeup, sex was on his terms in every way. He always compared me to his ex from 20 years ago (she's an older woman and after some detective work I found out she left him and married/divorced someone else which he has never mentioned; he makes it seem as though he can have her at anytime). I did tell a family member about this and she warned me about him but for some reason I just wanted to be with him.

Last week he pushed me away again and said he didn't want to be with anyone. Somehow he changed his mind on his own. I was planning to cook for him at his place Monday night and he started a silly argument with me Friday night about the time we were to meet on Monday. This was two hours after I'd revealed a painful secret about my family.

He'd been drinking and called me, stating he again didn't want to be with me, he didn't need me, I do nothing for him, he needs no one. I tried to calmly and rationally speak to him as I'd done in the past but he wanted no parts of it. I asked if we could be friends and he said no because I would try to "manipulate and seduce" him back. He told me never to call him again, don't come by (and if I did he wouldn't answer the door and would call the police!), he wanted nothing to do with me.

Of course I was stunned because it came from nowhere. I've never said an unkind word to or about this man. I've given him all of the space he's ever needed and honestly neglected my own needs and wants. Yet he's treating me like I did or said something horrible. I tried to call him 2 or 3 times after he hung up on me and he just kept yelling and saying he didn't want me, he never promised me he would be with me, he didn't see me in his future.

It was very painful and unexpected. I wanted to yell and say nasty things too but I couldn't do it; I didn't want to hurt him. I haven't and won't contact him. If I see him I don't even know if I should say anything. I don't want him to call the police but I would like to have a rational conversation. Typing all of this out I feel so stupid because this sounds pathetic. I just don't know what I did wrong to cause such a reaction.

I'm sorry if this is too long.

ladyscribbler

I'm sorry if this is too long.

No such thing. Writing everything out is sometimes the best way to process it in your mind, especially if it's a whirlwind of confusion. Sounds like this relationship definitely qualifies.
As for your question, I would say he is both. Not all alcoholics are verbally abusive, and it sounds like he was very calculating about how and when he insulted you.

I've given him all of the space he's ever needed and honestly neglected my own needs and wants.

I did the same thing. Good things started happening for me when I started investing the time and energy into my own self care that I used to waste on trying to make my ex happy.

I would like to have a rational conversation.

That's one of my fondest wishes as well. But I've had to let go of the idea that my ex would be able to do that. An active alcoholic is never going to be able to be the partner you deserve. On top of that he is abusive and I can see is being deliberately irrational in order to keep you more firmly under control because you can't guess what will happen next.
If you want to understand this guy, there's a really good book by Lundy Bancroft called Why Does He Do That? It has a section on substance abuse, and I think you will recognize many of this man's behaviors listed in the book- comparing you to the ex, verbal abuse, starting arguments over nothing, lying about past relationships.
But I think the best thing you can do is to figure out why this guy got such a hold over you, why you can logically see all the bad stuff he did to you yet still worry about hurting him. Not criticizing you. I was in the same spot. It has taken me a lot of recovery work on my part to get my head straight, and even now I still slip up.
Thanks for posting. Take care.

Porto

Wow thank you for your post. You said something that really made me think: "But I think the best thing you can do is to figure out why this guy got such a hold over you, why you can logically see all the bad stuff he did to you yet still worry about hurting him."

I was in a 2 year relationship prior to meeting him (that relationship ended on good terms and my ex has actually helped me attempt to process what just happened). I wasn't really looking for anything but he began to flirt with me and I decided to go for it (he pulled away the more I liked him, push-pull). I think I was lonelier than I thought. It's hard for me to connect to anyone let alone a man and when I felt that connection I was hooked.

I don't know why I worry about hurting him. I don't know where I get that from but it happens often. I know I have the ability to slice him with my tongue as well but I don't want to be that person. It takes less energy to be nice. But I am at my breaking point and I know myself; I could say things that I would never be able to take back.

Thank you, I agree writing helps me a lot. It's why I felt so silly typing it all out. It sounds bad in my head and looks horrific in print.

I believe I was very naive about alcoholism. I thought he would probably get a little drunk, become obnoxious or maybe yell on occasion (he claimed he never became violent but I did find a couple of battery charges from years ago; but I believe battery could also be a fight between two men?). I never understood how deep it was and now I see how it affects everyone within arms reach.

Yes he does keep me on edge and I've noticed I've become more anxious as time goes on. Thank you for letting me know this is not just an alcoholic man but also an abusive one. Sometimes the lines seem to blur. I will definitely check out the book. I have so much confusion and I can use some clarity.

marie1960

Exactly , what are you getting out of this situation ?

You don't have to answer the phone. You have the option of not accepting these nonsense phone calls from a 50+ year old man, who currently is spiraling out of control. " This come here, now go away" crap is painful nonsense.

Alcohol or not, he is acting like a school boy, not a mature adult man.

Nothing about this situation is healthy for YOU. As long as you engage, you will receive more of the same type treatment.

You deserve so much better, don't you agree?

LexieCat

Sounds like a very unrewarding relationship from your perspective.

It really doesn't matter why he does what he does--he's controlling and inconsiderate of your feelings. That's reason enough to walk away.

I lived with a guy for a long time who acted that way--there was absolutely no issue with alcohol (he RARELY drank anything and I think in five years I saw him tipsy a couple of times), but the charm and charisma kept me hooked in despite the lousy way he often treated me. Ugh.

Porto

I was getting nice dates, someone I instantly connected with, companionship. It wasn't all bad but it was confusing and I never felt settled.

You're right, I don't have to answer the phone. The problem is I see him a few times per week for business and it's going to be hard to forget him.

He always made it seem as if he were so mature and yet I felt like he was a child at times, throwing tantrums and threatening to leave dates early. Yes I deserve more but for some reason I still think maybe I did something wrong. I don't know if I was too needy.

I did purchase "Why Does He Do That" and I'm reading it on Kindle. I see so much of him in the book but then I have moments of doubt. I haven't gotten to the chapter about substance abuse yet. My sister thinks if I can get him to AA he may change. She thinks it's the alcohol, not him.

I do believe he was controlling but at first I thought he was telling me to cover up my body because he wanted me to respect myself; I thought he wanted me to wear less makeup because he really thought I looked better with less.

I don't know how it got to this point.

LexieCat

I don't think the controlling behaviors (telling you how to dress and how much makeup to wear) have anything to do with alcoholism. I've worked in the domestic violence field for many years, and although abuse is sometimes exacerbated by alcohol, they are two completely separate issues. Getting someone sober doesn't make them less abusive--it often makes them more EFFECTIVE abusers.

DMC

Lexie hit the nail on the head. I have also worked in the domestic violence field awhile, and yeah, they are two very different beasts. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes not.

Go back and read what you wrote, but imagine your sister or best friend was writing it. I kept thinking "and what is SHE getting out of this?" Sounds like a lot of heartbreak.

Just be aware that he may (and in all probability) will reach out to you, pour it on thick, and apologize... and promise the moon. It's all part of the power and control issues, which is truly the root of abuse.

Run like hell. And don't let him weasel back in, because he is going to try.

(And don't kick yourself not having seen it - abusers don't haul off and punch you on the first date. It's far more subtle than that... Lots of little things that in time, erode your support systems, isolate you from your friends and family and "groom" you as it were, to bend to his whim. It's not you, it's him, and any other woman would be in the same boat.)

redatlanta

Errrrr. I'd exit this.

I know you don't want to, I know you are confused, most of all I know the attraction is screwing with your mind.

Relationships should' be this hard and honestly he sounds off. This is weird behavior.

marie1960

My sister thinks if I can get him to AA he may change. She thinks it's the alcohol, not him.


Sober or intoxicated, , this is who is today, what you see , is what you get. Is that good enough for you?

It appears to me, and this is just my observation, but, you are currently making excuses for his unacceptable behavior.

he really threatened to end a date early? Why? Something not going his way? Really?

You certainly have painted quite a picture of this guy, and it's not pretty.

This guy has zero to offer you, but if you allow him to control you with his crapola, I can assure you, he will.

you havent't done anything wrong, this is how an active alcoholic rolls, period.

FeelingGreat

Porto, I'm sorry you're going through this difficult time. It will make you stronger and wiser in the long run, but it's hard to see right now.

In a way he's more level headed and honest than you, and I'm sure you will thank him one day for being so decisive about separating himself from you. I don't mean to cause offence but you do sound needy and very determined to take what you want from the relationship despite his wishes.

He's already told you about himself, and revealed abusive parts of his nature. The fact that he's an A seems to be icing on the cake. He knows he's an A, he is ok with that, so you'd better believe him. Any mission to save him would be doomed to failure because he doesn't want to change.

I understand the chemistry thing, having gone through it myself, but that's all you have with him. He won't save you, he won't fill that empty part of you, and it would end in tears. If you have to change jobs to avoid seeing him, then please consider it.

shil2587

Why was this a surprise? Sounds like he had made out clear from the word go that he didn't want a relationship with you. He said he didn't want to date you and then tried to break up with you.

I don't think this is his fault. He's been honest throughout. But you have tried to make out something it was never going to be. It might be worth looking at why that is. Do you have a history of family that might leave you a little insecure?

You deserve so much better than a man who doesn't want to be with you.

theuncertainty

I know Lexie and DMC have already brought it up, but while well-meaning and I'm sure your sister just wants to give you hope, please don't rely on AA to change his underlying psychological make-up, who he is. Because patterns of abuse are just that, part of who he is and how he treats intimate partners. It has zero basis in what he had to drink on any particular night.

I'd also thought that if AXH would just go to rehab, he'd stop the push-you-pull-me, the controlling behavior, the hurtful comments... With me, his abuse was mainly controlling, emotional, though the sex on his terms escalated to much, much worse. He later escalated to threats. When he finally went to rehab, he was living with another girl. His pattern changed, but it didn't get better.

It sounds like a reasonable assumption. I assumed the same with AXH. But it was more about control than love.

Nice dates should be a given when you're dating someone and there shouldn't be a price attached. And when there _is_ a price attached it can be so confusing, because we want to believe the person we're dating loves us. Love shouldn't feel confusing.

I want to say to find comfort that he's ended it, because he let you go, but I wouldn't have received it well when I'd first left AXH. And based on his history of pushing you away and pulling you back, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not really done. Wishing you strength and peace, Porto.

lighter

If a guy doesn't love you he doesn't love you.

Flavia2

"He always made it seem as if he were so mature and yet I felt like he was a child at times, throwing tantrums and threatening to leave dates early."

This is cruel and condescending. I agree with Lexie, his need to control you by putting you down will probably get WORSE if he gets sober.

Porto

Thank you for your response and well wishes. My sister is going back to school for a degree in counseling so perhaps she was just trying on her counselor hat.
I'm not sure my ex cares enough at this point to threaten me or become too emotional.

Thanks?

@shil2587 You felt he did nothing wrong? Someone can be as cruel or confusing as they want as long as they're honest? Okay.

And he told me he loved me, cared for me, felt a connection but was afraid to let anyone in, which led to further confusion.

Yes he does have a habit of being condescending but I thought maybe it was just his sarcastic nature.

Porto

How does he sound off? I know some alcoholics deal with paranoia. I thought this was just a part of the disease.

He wanted to leave early because I asked him questions about his sexual past. But I ask all men about their sexual past and I think it's a healthy conversation to have with someone.

I think I am making excuses because I still care about him. I shouldn't and I will get him out of my system, I just wanted to know if this was the norm for alcholics (push-pull, rollercoaster). I was confused because I don't know if he's abusive, an alcoholic, if it gets better or worse. I had a lot of questions.

You don't mean to cause me offense and then you call me needy. Okay, I'm needy, now what? I thought this was a forum for support not ridicule. I didn't know that wanting the basics in a relationship or being hurt and confused after a breakup was neediness. And in what world is an alcoholic level headed? If that's the case AA shouldn't exist since alcoholics are now walking around with clear heads and making brilliant decisions.

firebolt

Porto,

I am sorry you are going through this. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

A couple things....no one is intending to ridicule you. They are bringing up your issues to help you see them. We (the partners and family members of alcoholics) can be in just as much denial about our "issues" as they can be about their alcoholism.

Why do we bring up your issues? Cause every one of us here HAS or IS going through the same thing as you, and has / had the same ones you do - that most of us were fairly blind to when we showed up here. We are / were in complete denial about our issues. We came here pouring our hearts out about the crappy and often evil situations our alcoholics have put us in. Every one of us has gone through people here saying wait a second....stop and think about YOUR part in this. We are so focused on our alcoholics - THEM, what they are doing to us - why they are doing it to us, and how we can change them to stop them from doing this to us, and of course themselves.

I got here asking how to get my ABF to see that he has a problem, and how WE can fix HIS problem. What a kick to the nuts to find out that I have problems, and that the only thing I can fix is my problems.

People here are direct. They can see what newcomers can't because we have all been in the same boat, we are all doing the same hard work on ourselves.

Consider what we are saying - and take what is useful to you and leave the rest. Our goal is to put you through the same process we went through. It's BIG. It sucks. It's breaking through everything we've ever thought about ourselves with a goal of self honesty. It's life changing. It's self discovery. It is hard work. It is changing how we see ourselves. It is learning to take better care of ourselves. I often think I wish I could go back to before I knew anything about alcoholism at all. Truth is, me wanting to learn about alcoholism has lead me to knowing more about myself than I'd thought possible. HIS issues have lead me to make ME a better person. Sticking around here gave me the Wizard of Oz black and white to color transition moment about MY life.

Stick around - read, learn all you can. Please don't take offense - it isn't intended. and (((HUGS)))

redatlanta

No. There are some common denominators with alcoholics and the alcoholic personality. However, one size does not fit all. Alcoholism doesn't make people abusive. Alcoholism doesn't make someone condescending and controlling.. Alcoholism doesn't make people play tug of war with someone's brain/heart. It doesn't make someone cruel. That's all him sister. Take away the alcohol and you still have a controlling, condescending jerk that would need some serious therapy to change.

You dodged a bullet. If a parent's children won't have anything to do with them pay attention to that red flag next time - he told you up front he would drink till he died. No reason to think otherwise.

Honestly, I think you probably got the nicest treatment this guy had to offer for as long a he could offer it.