You Can't Be His Friend and Mine
 

I used to want to make everyone happy. I still want the people in my life to be happy, and happy with me, but I can't control that. I am changing. I increasingly enjoy hearing my own voice and following my instincts, no matter what people may think. Too bad.
You know what I mean?

Xah has always had a habit of befriending my friends, then subtlely saying things about me that turn my friends towards him and away from me. In my marriage, I became quite isolated because of this practice. My own mother was normally on his side.

But I have my own friends now. And he cant get at most of these friendships. Especially with my local, guy, athlete non anglophone friends - they would drown him in the lake for me here if I asked them to. That is probably part of why I feel so deliciously safe with them...

Enter some old friends, a couple and two children, who have been visiting this week. They are friends from my former marriage. Their children are very close with my children.

But my xah has picked up his friendship with the dad of this family. They are colleagues. They are both working in California frequently on similar projects.

But then the husband of this couple comes into my apartment for the first time in a year and tells me he has been talking to my ex, like I should hear this and treat everything like it is no big deal. I just told his wife that her husband can go ahead and be friends with xah. But I wont be friends with someone who is also friends with xah. I dont live on the other side of the ocean for nothing. I want no contact as much as possible. Plus, xah will try to get info out of him that he can use against me. The condition of my messy apartment, what I am doing, what I own ( nothing, pretty much) whatever he can use, manipulate, construe against me.

This may seem unreasonable and extreme but I dont care. I want what is best for me now. And people who cant get that arent the kind of friends I want around me.

Extreme? Oh, I don't know. I did the same thing. Anyone who remained in touch with axh was scratched off my list.

I think my only issue is framing it the way you did: "You can't be his friend and mine." I remember hearing that sort of thing in elementary school.

It doesn't sound like the wife or the kids did anything disloyal. If you don't feel you want to remain in contact, I'd just explain it nicely--that you don't want to hear anything about his life and don't want him hearing anything about yours, and that under the circumstances, maintaining a friendship with them is too difficult right now.

The way you put it just kind of makes it sound like you're BLAMING her for her husband's continued contact with him. And I don't know that he has many options, either, in terms of being in contact with your ex (and even being pleasant to him), but if you believe he is "reporting" then that's reason enough not to allow him to be in a position where he can do that.

I don't know, maybe you didn't put it in those exact terms to her. And I know you didn't ask anyone's opinion about it, either. But as long as you posted, that's my two cents.

Pippi, if you have concerns that they are going to go back and feed your X info about you, I think you are right. It's a shame, but it is what it is. Like you said, you don't live on the other side of the ocean for nothing, and why let people in your life who you doubt.

If your kids are friends w/their kids, I personally would let them remain friends, as kids don't need to be caught up in adult issues, that is just my opinion.

Personally, I don't care who my friends are friends with. My friends took me in when I had no place to go, they are there for me. They also still have a friendship with my ex. Why not? He didn't do anything to them. I have no problem with them remaining as friends with him.

They don't tell him anything about me, and they don't tell me anything about him.

If I understood your post correctly, they came from the U.S. to the country that you are living in, and came to visit you. I guess I can't see how your ex was turning them away from you. I think if he was, (which perhaps he may have) it seems to me that they weren't listening.

My friends are my friends, his friends are his friends, just seems that the circle of friends are all the same, and that is OK with me.

(((((hugs)))))
amy

Pippi......personally, I applaud you for drawing the boundaries where YOU need them to be to protect YOURSELF.

As I recall---he is pretty much a poster child for Narcissistic Disorder----and, we well know that these people turn all the social nicieties th at apply to normal social relations topsy-turvey....

Do what you gotta do girl---and don't give a damn what anybody thinks about it. It took you a l ong t ime to get to this point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dandylion

I agree Amy! I honestly could care less who my ex is still friends with or what he may hear about me. I live a life that I am very proud of and happy with. AND......I could care less what he thinks of me anyway. :)

Pippi.....reminds me of the saying: " Confucious say: "Stupid mouse who makes nest in cat's ear".
I think you are just delineating who you can realistically "trust" (or not),,,,,and not making a nest in that ear......:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

dandylion

Pippi.....remind me of the saying: "Confucious say: "Stupid mouse who makes nest in cat's ear".
I think you are just delineating who you can realistically "trust" (or not),,,,,and not making a nest in that ear......:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

dandylion

I really needed to think a lot about this reply. See, I had just recently found out that my ex had explained my black eye away to my daughter by saying that I threw myself down a flight of steps so that I would be injured, so that I could call 911 to have him arrested, and that it wasn't his fault, but then also added in that he was no angel either.

I really don't care what my ex says about me anymore. I'm sure that I will hear more and more. I just wanted to say that I trust my friends and I would never give them up

So, Pippi, if these were never really true friends, then yes, drop them, if they are, they can see the BS.

amy

See, the thing is that you can't control other people, what they think and do, or who they're friends with. Controlling friends by placing ultimatums on your friendship is bad for a friendship, period.

It's up to you to decide who you will be friends with and why, what your boundaries are, what you show and tell, and how you present yourself to others. If you don't want to be friends with people who are friends with your ex, so be it. But making hay about what they do and don't do is putting focus on the wrong people, when the only person you can control in this world is yourself.

As for my own experience, I'll be totally honest. I lived in fear of my son's dad for many years. But once I was away from him and financially independent, he was unable to touch me. I don't care what he thinks about me or says about me, because I don't need his validation in my life. I'm stable and happy, no matter what he or anyone else says and does.

If someone I know is friendly with him (and it's likely, because we live in a small town), I don't hold back to be nice. I'll say, and have said, that he was a jerk to me and have laid out sometimes how, depending on who the mutual friend is and what the situation is. I'll even say, you're free to like whomever, but I question your judgement. Wink wink, laugh laugh, nudge nudge.

I lived through all that. I get to tell my side too. The reason I no longer feel distressed by any of this is that I went through significant counseling and self-work to figure out how to manage myself instead of trying to manage others.

Two things I thought about in this situation--

First, his nature likely makes it hard to feel totally "safe" from him. Like he may try to learn and use little details about you to use against you in some way. It took me a while to realize he couldn't harm me anymore, even through the kids--because they started to see him too. And even friends think they're being helpful sometimes by sharing seemingly harmless details. I understand this fear. It's fine, but eventually it passes.

Second, and I struggled with this one more. If someone is truly okay with him and his behavior, KNOWING what transpired, I simply can't be friends with them because we don't share the same values. Not punishment, just choosing who gets to be in my space. And that's okay.

You get to choose your friends!

Thank you everyone for your input - and support.

Just to update...My girlfriend has been really caring and sweet since I told her my feelings. She said that it was good that I expressed myself and that you have to do that in all real friendships sometimes. We have since been to two long wonderful family parties with our children and others. My children and I will look back on these times as magical.

I havent talked to her husband about his contact with my ex, but she did tell me it was just an email exchange initiated by xah. Her husband is a product of an awful divorce himself and, like my oldest son, wants to keep the peace. I understand him.

So my friendships are great and a blessing to my family and me.

I have never had such love and admiration for so many friends in my life before. Xah infiltrated almost all of my relationships during my marriage. He is extremely skilled at subtlely turning people away from me. I think he does this with pleasure. So I am ecstatic to find most of my friendships here free from his influence and I am amazed at how many incredible people I have in my life. Even and most importantly my relationships with my children are deepening. I have always been very close with them but my ex had influenced us to stay emotionally a bit remote from one another in some ways. And these barriers are coming down.

I think what makes me choose the boundaries I have regarding my friendships and xah is the following. Xah is an extremely effective manipulator and liar. He will befriend my friends and family intentionally to lessen my support, isolate me, gather information about me. This information he mixes with lies to spin ridiculous stories about me.

I am vulnerable because a). he is convincing; b). we have ongoing court involvement concerning the children; c). even if I have some money he is richer than ever and uses his money as power over the children and in court. He will just keep giving his lawyers money to create problems for me, lying and requiring me to pay money I dont have to defend myself and my custody of the children. It is and may remain an ongoing nightmare.

I am also vulnerable emotionally because I do care what people think. And he knows he can hurt me this way. And the most painful is knowing that he enjoys hurting me and wont spare his own children. Dandylion, thank you! It has taken me a lifetime to get to the point where I can stand up for myself like this and it doesnt come easily to me. Praying, absolutely! If people are okay with what xah has done to his family, I am not okay with them. Of course, no one gets it like the children and I. I cant fault people for being duped. I was. And thankfully I can take measures to protect myself from the invasive lies and manipulations.

I have to leave with the children in a few days to take them to the US to visit their father. You wouldnt believe the dramas unfolding regarding his half promises to the children and such. It is hard. I got into a bike crash a few days ago and caught myself hoping that I would be so hurt that the children and I would have to stay in Europe. But nope, I am tougher than ever. I am preparing for the journey but I am dreading it.

It might be just fine. Maybe remind the kids that Dad makes plans, but they don't always work out. Just a little preparation, not a prediction. Everyone might have a great time, including you. Hope you've got some fun stuff planned for yourself!

Pippi.....just your mindset is so different than it usto be. I am so super proud of you. With all you have been through, five weeks will be here and gone before you know it, and you can go back to your happy place.

No more bike crashes girl!!!!