Refiner

This is SO true. I've been chided before about "playing doctor" and I've seen chiding here about "labeling" and such. It doesn't really matter in the end when you just know the behavior is toxic even without a label. I was so relieved when I "diagnosed" my AS as having NPD -- to learn I wasn't a nutcase and also learned the tools to cope then finally went NC.

Praying

I've been told- if you're wondering if you might be NPD, you aren't. The self-awareness to ask the question and reflect makes that impossible. Maybe there's stuff to work on, but it ain't clinical.

Kimmieh-- if you like to research and read, I have to recommend the book "Women Who Love Psychopaths".

I've recommended it before on this site, don't recall how recently--true NPD is under psychopathic disorders in the DSM, so don't let the title turn you off.

What I love about it is that it listed "his" traits (him being the NPD) and "her" traits, and discussed why he picks her, why her GOOD traits don't serve her well in the relationship, etc. I struggled with "how did I get here" and "how can I avoid it again"... after reading his book I can see the red flags flying high! And I learned a lot about myself and how to manage some of my own traits.

Many people in long term relationships with NPDs have PTSD. They storm through our lives then discard us when we "fail". If he is an N, you are fortunate to be freed this soon. But he may be back...

I was reading these entries and reminded of how I used to clean up after and take care of my A NPD when he was drunk early on ALL THE TIME. The one time I got way too drunk with some of our friends, he drove home, left me in the car, LOCKED the door to the house and turned off the porch lights...when I fumbled to the door and finally got the keys in to open it, he was right inside watching TV, and said without looking up, "oh look who decided to come inside". The next morning he left early and told me I'd better clean up after myself because I was disgusting. I thought--yeah, poor choice--maybe he's right, and felt kind of stupid. My friend's husband held her hair back while she puked in the toilet. Hmm...

That pales in comparison to the rest, and it was 13 years before I left for good... And I'm a strong, independent, employed woman!!! They have a way of twisting our reality.

One thing that resonated with me is that they put on personas like you would put on a coat. They pick personalities and realities they want to live in that keep the ego intact. That's one reason they can dump people so quickly, including children.

I could talk all day on this topic, but anyway, the book helped me gain some closure and arm myself with knowledge about me. I think you might find it useful.

Kimmieh

I am so grateful for your posts. I had a very rough day today. His cheerful email about our good times together ("look how witty and creative we were, happy memories") and his continued ignoring of my requests to take down my pictures from his FB gave me hope that I just can't and shouldn't have. I realized that today. I was doing well after I sent him the email last week telling him that he messed up. I meant to conclude things with that email. I felt good. Then I got his email two days later, cheery and completely ignoring mine. I became both angry and hopeful (deep down) and it's been such a confusing week. I only responded to say (for the second time) to please take down my pictures (another attempt at just getting it over with). He ignored that. This week was hard because, as I just now realized, I kept thinking that these are signs that he wants me back. And then I started to miss him. But a) I drive myself crazy waiting for him to want me back and b) I CAN'T take him back.

So I mustered my resolve and anger and I just now sent him a message that happy memories are made with good people, but that they turn into regrets quickly when the people you thought were good people turn out to be selfish hypocrites with no integrity. I asked him to at least show me enough respect to take down my pictures and left it at that.

I feel better now. I NEED the pictures gone because I know he wants them there to brag about his first girlfriend. I refuse to be a part of narcissistic image-building.

This was hard, but I feel better now.

LexieCat

Boy, do I get that. I CONSTANTLY heard about how gorgeous, sexy, etc. by last ex's exes were. I'm probably part of that proud cadre now. I don't know what he's saying about me and I'm happier not knowing, but I'm sure that as much as he probably doesn't give a rat's ass about me, he probably brags about me to make himself look good.

Kimmieh

Ugh, bleh...

I am already mad at myself for feeding his over-inflated ego during those 6 months, so my pictures will NOT stay on his Facebook.

Kimmieh

He sent me an email and I just learned the real meaning of gaslighting...now we were never exclusive, we were never meant to last, apparently we were always open to dating other people (no, we were not). And more. This is the most cold, twisted, awful thing I have ever read. He refuses to take down my pictures. He says my facebook wall is not my concern and he doesn't wish to associate with me anymore.

This is probably good because it just killed all residual affection I had, but I am so troubled and upset right now that I didn't see this. I gave this person all my love and thought he gave me all of his. We were in a committed exclusive relationship. This is all fabrication.

I feel sick. This is awful.

FeelingGreat

Ok Kimmeh, he won't take them down and I don't blame you for being furious at him, but assuming there's nothing too objectionable in the photos, you may have to move on.
They were posted in a public domain during the good times, but that happens a lot. It won't mean much to anyone who knows you, and those who know him will eventually find out what he's like. If photos of a girlfriend are all he has to boost his self-esteem, you have to feel sorry for him.

Time to go your own way.

Kimmieh

I think I am reeling more over the ice-cold gas-lighting. I am sure now he wanted me back, but when I didn't play along with the niceties, he lashed out and slammed me for an email I wrote before he still wanted to be friends. I rejected him and challenged his self-image as a righteous and loyal person with principles and got SLAMMED. Whoa....

He is a sick person and I don't understand how I got reeled in. It feels so so gross. Like a 6-month-long betrayal.

I will get over this and I know he did me a favor with this email. It all makes sense now. But I have to process this a bit and forgive myself for falling for it...

Kimmieh

Please tell me not to respond to the fabrications. He is saying we were never exclusive and we were never in a longterm committed relationship. That is a lie. He is fabricating this to hurt me. He says he doesn't have any desire to point out my true weaknesses as he doesn't have anything to gain from it. Who says that??

I have to disengage. I cannot respond to the lies because who knows what he might do. Sorry for rambling, I am feeling a bit frantic right now...

Praying

Read the book I recommended. Seriously.

And tell him "okay".

Then cut contact.

Acknowledging or defending against anything he says validates the craziness. You can't convince irrationality of the truth...you can only preserve yourself by walking away.

Talking to him at all at this point is giving him power. Silence is taking your power back.

Try to relax! Today, just say...for 24 hours I won't contact him or respond in any way. Just for today...

Kimmieh

Thank you.

I only said one more time to remove the pictures since they have no purpose on there. He won't, I know, so I blocked his FB for now. When I am back in the U.S. in August, I will have the ones removed that I took based on copyright grounds.

I deleted all pictures, conversations, and archived the emails. I am done with him. And I am glad this happened because never ever should I even consider being friends with a person like this. This is sheer insanity. Do they believe their own fabrications?

biminiblue

I just gave up on photos. It's hard to prove copyright - especially if they aren't copywrited.

Once any photo hits a public profile, it's out there on the internet. He could take them down, block you and then put them right back up. I mean, you can't police him forever.

My gentle suggestion is to let it go with the photos - unless they are nudes or something that could cause you personal damage. There are so many pictures of all of us out in the world. Not much is private now - with cell phone cameras everywhere. It is just keeping you attached to trying to control him.

I actually do have some photos out there in compromising situations - I'm not losing sleep over them, and I doubt they'll ever do me any serious harm. No one cares as much as we think they do.

Kimmieh

I just hate the idea of being used to feed his narcissistic ego. Right now, as this is still raw, it makes me sick. No, they are not compromising.

But I know you are right and in due time I won't care anymore. Right now I have to focus on not responding. It's hard to let all those insane and condescending and threatening statements stand...but I know it's pointless. So I post here instead I guess.

biminiblue

Yeah, I get that.

Just be glad he's someone else's problem now.

I had to forgive myself for making terrible choices in men, too. When I knew better, I got out. Now that I know better, I won't do that again. It's a life lesson none of us want to learn, but a lot of us do learn the hard way.

Problem is, they are smooth and know exactly which strings to pull. I hope you won't blame yourself - he's spent a lifetime honing his craft, and most likely learned it from his family of origin.

Kimmieh

He is only in his late 20s. There is so much insidiousness and covert threat and condescension in there that makes me fear for whoever gets close to him and then wrongs him. He sounds like an abuser. I know it's not my problem, but right now it's disconcerting.

I have a sense of relief. It all makes sense now and there is no question I cannot further engage. But it's so creepy. I feel really creeped out right now.

Praying

The best way to starve his narcissistic ego is to reduce him to a nonevent. Make his actions appear irrelevant to you. If he knows you care about something (e.g. the pictures), it's fuel. He knows he's GOT you and will never let them go...if the pics become irrelevant and you refer to him with a nonchalant--"Who? Oh yeah, I think I might have dated that guy, don't really remember anymore" attitude, THAT'S what starves him.

He wants you to defend yourself. Justifying is feeding the ego too. Every wasted word feeds it. Frustrating as heck, isn't it?!?

When they say the best revenge is living well, that totally applies here.

Hang in there. You've got an amazing life ahead of you, and a lot more knowledge about toxic relationships!

Kimmieh

Thank you so so much, I really needed to hear this. I have been reminding myself all evening that I have the upper hand because I hit him so hard he had to take me down a notch or two. At least I can walk away knowing I did not let his charm and manipulation keep me from pointing out what he did and that he needs to own it. And if hearing that sends him into a narcissistic rage, then I can walk away knowing that I was right and knowing that he knows this, too.

Yes, you re right, any further engagement will give him an ego-boost and opportunity to twist things more. It really is like talking to a drunk person and I have certainly been there.

An alcoholic, someone with schizoid personality disorder, and a raging narcissistic on my list now. That's quite enough for dysfunctional relationships...Live and learn.

LeeJane

I could have written this exact statement about my N AH.

He needs to remain in his safe environment (our home) or acts out due to fear.

redatlanta

He is poking the Bear, and its working!!!

People like this will use any tactic necessary to accomplish whatever it is they are trying to accomplish. What that is with him I don't know, maybe he just wants contact with you, maybe he is drunk, maybe he is obsessing over the relationship. The contact can be nice ad syrupy sweet to mean and hateful. The resulting action he is looking for is the same - that you will play along. And you are!

He is telling you the grass is purple do you not see that? Would you argue that with him or believe that grass is purple because he says so? Of course you wouldn't. Your former relationship is no different. You know what it was (and so does he for that matter).

Disengage and don't respond to him. That's your best course of action.

LexieCat

Yup, exactly what the others are saying. Drop the rope.

And I don't think, if he refuses to take down the pictures, you can probably force the issue. I'd let them be. For better or worse you WERE a part of his life, so unless he is using them in a way that is objectively harmful to you he has a right to post them.

I think your best course of action is to treat it all as BFD.