Thomas45

Speaking from personal experience, fear of loss can drive people to lapses in sanity and prevent them from thinking clearly. I think it may be pertinent to ask yourself if you are afraid of losing your wife, or if you are actually afraid of facing the knowledge that your wife was lost to you 5 years ago - and by your account, hasn't made any attempt to regain your trust and companionship. I could be wrong, but there is the possibility that she may be using your marriage as a financial security blanket until she finds someone to replace you.

I'm sorry if this comes across as blunt, but I find it inconceivable that two grown adults would be "in a relationship together" for 3 years and not have sex. Unless the man is seeing other women on the side, I can't imagine that any man on earth would be dating a woman for three years and not desire physical intimacy.

She's being non-committal. She's getting dolled up and going out to party but excluding you from all aspects of her life.

Your marriage can't get better if she's not willing to put work into making it better. Do you see any evidence that she has intentions of opening up to you on an emotional or even physical level? All I see is neglect and complete betrayal of trust.

FeelingGreat

Hi Sneaker
It seems your marriage is very unbalanced, and not in your favour. Alcoholism aside, you are intimidated and bullied by your wife. The same standards don't apply to both of you.
If you think there's some hope for you both then the balance will have to be restored, but your wife doesn't seem aware or willing to work on this.
If things have gone too far in your eyes, then you'll need to consider building a new life away from her. This could be difficult and her behaviour might deteriorate so think carefully about how you'll achieve this, and make sure your preparations are thorough and secret (for now).

redatlanta

The counter argument is the "in sickness and in health". There is no doubt that she is sick, mental illness, even if the doctors can't figure out how to diagnose her.

What about the other vows? Like "to love, honor and forsaking all others"?

You aren't playing a fair game here. You are applying logical thinking to a person who is not participating. Your vows matter to YOU, her vows are not of consequence to HER.

You don't have to prove you are a good husband and person by being a doormat to a spouse who treats you like $hit on the bottom of her shoe.

As for her apparent untreatable problems - I'd nix out BiPolar. There is no such thing as "borderline bi-polar" just as there is no such thing as "borderline pregnant". You are or not. If she has been given the meds and they didn't affect then someone is barking up the wrong tree for as long as this has been going on.

My guess is Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic personality Disorder. One or both. Not treatable with meds. Very difficult to treat and a nightmare to live with. Not diagnosing her - it may be worth your time to read about both disorders.

Seaker40

I have a high sex drive. And it's been almost 5 years now. It's been a huge source of frustration and arguments. My wife has medical reasons for not wanting to have sex, but I don't know how much is accurate and how much is her just refusing to try. It could be a source of ongoing pain for her.

I thought of having an affair - much like I'm doing now, I started talking to others that have had affairs, researching how to have them and not get caught, but ultimately what I learned was that if I'm going to have an affair, I might as well just end the marriage first.

For a timeline -
5 years ago - last time we had sex, she moved to another bedroom
4 years ago - she was just getting deep into the recovery process, therapy, and spent most of the year not talking to me; this was a very hard year.
3 years ago - I started looking at having an affair, but ultimately decided that a divorce was the correct next step; talked to my wife about it and she said she'd make an effort to change; I decided to give it another year, see if things improved; no sex, and the effort died away within a month
a couple months ago - I hit a breaking point, I'd had enough. I had given her a year and it's now been 3; the complete emotional abandonment was the trigger

I've been able to manage my sexual frustration so long as there was an emotional connection. It was difficult, I got angry, frustrated and it wasn't healthy. A lot of our fights are about sex, or because of the lack of sex, etc. I buried myself in distractions. Netflix marathons, computer games, all-day hiking, reading books, etc.

For years it was, "Maybe tomorrow..." which never came. This was replaced by, "Soon..." which never came. This strung me along and I eventually stopped asking her for sex - the continual rejection was too much.

Sometimes I wonder if it was a mistake to not have an affair. In some ways I think it would have been better. But I've also gone a good year where I said, "If someone came asking, I wouldn't say no..." but nobody ever came asking.

I tried talking to a therapist about this around the 3 year mark. I talked for 3 months and she never gave me feedback, or said anything. One of her first questions was, "Why is sex so important to you?" I think I responded with something like, "Seriously?!?"

Ultimately I'm just a chump who got strung along.

Seaker40

Her health issues require us to buy organic foods - something in other foods trigger allergic reactions (pesticides or some chemical). This is very expensive and takes up a good portion of our budget. I have no doubt that this plays into her wanting to keep the marriage intact - living on her own she would not be able to afford this. Our mortgage is also underwater, and a short-sell would leave us both with significant debt. I'm at the point where I don't care anymore, but these are financial reasons she has to hold on.

As of right now, I'm not seeing any evidence that she is willing to put the work into the marriage. The therapist said he needed a few more sessions. Today is the second one since he said that.

For ending the marriage, dissolution requires complete agreement on everything and has the least financial impact. My goal right now is to either get her to change her behaviors drastically (unlikely) or agree to a dissolution.

If that doesn't work, then I will file for divorce and use my 401k to pay for it.

Praying

I'd just like to say that I highly respect your decision to not have the affair. That kind of integrity in the midst of what you are experiencing is meaningful and speaks to your character. You are a good man. You deserve to be treated like one. And you can hold your head high and be proud that you've done what you could.

I didn't want my kids to come from divorce either. But I have two boys, and I realized I was teaching them dysfunction--that this is what an intimate relationship looks like, and it's okay for a man to treat a woman this way. (Or for them to accept this behavior from anyone.) In some ways, that's way worse for them to grow up with than two separate but happy parents...where maybe there's even hope someday in the future of finding a good relationship that models what it SHOULD look like. To talk to them about it. My boys' love and respect for me doubled when I said ENOUGH.

It was actually my pastor who told me--God does not require you to do this. He does not ask one person to sacrifice themselves in a marriage. That's not what it's about.

That doesn't make anything easy at all. But you have one life...sacrifice is noble for a good cause. What is the cause and what will be the likely outcome for your life of nobility?

For the record, I am in a newer relationship with an A who is recovering. I AM sticking around now. Because it IS different. He may still fail, but his heart and actions are there. I say that because so often we say "leave"! I still believe in hope and changing hearts, but only when deserved.

Have a good day today. Sending hugs!

53500

Hi there, I have been reading your thread and agree with all the others who say, "What does she add to your life?" And your answer is "nothing". Actually it sounds like less than nothing.
She subtracts from your life. You get no sex, affection or meaningful companionship with her FOR YEARS and the marriage keeps you from getting these with anyone else. Which I respect, btw.

I understand fear of the unknown and unfamiliar even when the "known" is as bleak as you describe.

I'd be willing to bet if you make the decision and leave her, your fear will diminish very quickly and you'll build a new life for yourself and you will feel like you've crawled out from under a rock into the sunshine. And I believe you will find female companionship with someone who appreciates you.

Just my .02. You sound like a very nice man and deserve much better.

Sasha4

Number 1 - you are not a chump. You sound like a lovely man who has not been treated very well.

Number 2 - I'm not sure if I read right, but do you have a child together? I know you say you fear her not being in your life but if you do have a child together (whatever age) she will always feature in your life.

Number 3 - she does not seem to have made much progress in her recovery from alcohol if she still blames you for her drinking.

The reason why she drinks is because she chooses too. I know this and I am allowed to say it as I was the the problem drinker and early on I but some blame on my (now ex) partner for my drinker.

It was not fair or right of me to do that.
In truth I would have blamed anything or anyone if it allowed me to drink.
No-one was to blame, I just liked alcohol too much.

Number 4 - are you glad you bumped into the stranger who directed you here?!!

Still wishing you the best xx

Seaker40

Just got back from marriage counciling - things took a different turn. Therapist suggested that my wife continue to see her therapist and that he would see me, and we'd all four meet every other week. We all agreed, set dates, and I had my first session with him alone. I told him my time table, about it not looking like recovery, that I'm not getting anything from the marriage, and what I want from the marriage. Then more about my background and how things got to the point they are at. I think he gets it. I think the marriage will end but that he'll help get me through it.

Thanks everyone for the virtual hugs, comments, thoughts, etc. I'll keep posting and responding.

Seaker40

Thanks! Yes, glad I met the stranger - it's opened my eyes and has given me different perspectives to see what is going on. I really should have gone to the open AA meetings or the al-anon meetings. I was avoiding it and it blinded me to too many things.

If I were to describe what it's like for me:
- I feel like I've been buried under a huge amount of something, and unable dig a way out
- I'm so close to the issues, that I can't see things in the right way; can't see the tree through the forest or read the writing when my face is right up against it
- Sometimes it's easier to give up trying to make things better for myself, that the fight for what I know is right is too hard; easier to just fall back into old patterns of behavior, continue what I was doing, allow things to go on the way they have

I reached a breaking point and while my head is chaotic, my emotions in turmoil, I do know what I want.

CodeJob

Hello Seaker,

Check out a few of the Borderline articles here and see if they 'ring true' for you.

GettinBetter.com's Articles


Hammer used to post in the Borderline section here under the mental health area and you might find his posts on dealing his wife worth reading through. It took him a long time to ditch his heroic efforts to save his wife and then end the marriage. He too had to deal with her suicidal, eating disorders, cutting, alcoholic, food controlling... He often said something like, "Rehab doesn't fix Borderline, it just takes away the most recent addictive effort to control it..."

Peace,

Eauchiche

Newbie, your thread is helping me realize many things about my situation.
Not only did I lose my mate 1-1/2 years ago, I lost a house 3-1/2 years ago, a business 2-1/2 years ago, and all my pets are with my separated mate. I can't go see them without risking some tirade from him. I actually lost two houses in two years when my mate made it impossible to go back to his house again.

As grateful as I am for all the blessings God has given me, fact is, I have had tremendous losses.

It occurred to me today that I need to work at unbundling my mate from everything else. In other words, if I still had my house and pets, I believe it would make it a lot easier to just move on away from attachments to my mate.
Since this is not a possibility right now, I need to get to a place psychologically that is similar to actually having those things.

I don;t know if this makes sense to anybody, but I've never claimed to be normal.....

Seaker40

I'm certainly no expert, but detachment means detachment. You would need to let go of the need for the house or pets. Having a similar place is just a replacement. It might help, but it also might make things worse.

The problem that people have, including myself, is learning how to let go. How do you stop needing something? In my situation, I need (crave) love and affection and sex. I'm not getting those from my wife, but I can get them elsewhere. These aren't things that I'm willing to stop wanting - they are what make me human. They make life worth living. This is what gives me the drive to end the marriage if that's what I need to do.

I have a house that I built with my wife, aging pets, lots of possessions, and very little money. Letting go of the possessions is easy. The house, sure. The wife - it's hard but I'm not getting what I want from her. The pets? It's going to be a very sad and cruel day when I have to put them down because I couldn't make it work with my wife. They are old and on medications - keeping them may be impossible. I doubt I can find anyone to adopt them. I'm sure the vet will agree to put them down considering their age and health. But that will be the cruelest part of leaving my wife.

Letting go can be hard and there are many people seeking help on how to do this. I don't have the answers, other than doing what is best for yourself. What we really need vs. what we're just holding onto can be difficult to overcome. You're holding onto your pets, your mate is using them to get to you. The answer is to let go of the pets. If that's not acceptable, then you have to fight for the pets, and the mate may still use them against you or to get something else from you.

sg1970

Seaker,

I just wanted to say thank you for this thread. I needed to hear a lot of this advice. Best wishes for your future.

Sasha4

Another lesson I have learnt from being here is that you don't have to decide straight away or with immediate effect as to what to do.

Nothing needs to be decided upon in an instant.

You can mull it over, let it sit with you and decide how it feels.

I find sometimes, a big decision feels shocking and frightening at first.
However after a few day of thinking it over, it may seem not as scary and is something I can go through with.

I wouldn't put anything off or not deal with it.
Every issue needs to be dealt with eventually, but time can make you see that yes it is the right way to go or no its not.

Seaker40

Saving this quote so I can ponder it more. Thanks!

Seaker40

Had my first real sit down conversation with my wife outside of the therapist office. First time we've really talked in a long time. It was interesting, and not sure if it changes anything, but she wants a couple more months to try to make things work.

Still blaming me for her problems and the state of the marriage, still refuses to acknowledge her role or behaviors, still gives excuses or shifts blame. Does acknowledge that she's not meeting my needs and is willing to change that, but needs more time. I want to believe her, I want that ember of hope to be stoked, but when I sit down and write it out, nothing has changed other than we finally had a conversation.

I find it interesting how hard we cling to hope, how hard it is to let go.

I went for a walk and met two college students, about half my age, and we got to talking. Somehow things got personal - one of them tried to commit suicide and had been hospitalized, the other has some sort of personality disorder and is involved with a recovery program as a mentor. Both were looking for friendship, understanding, people they could talk to. How did I end up having this conversation with total strangers, none of us having met each other before? Is the world filled with people just looking for someone else to connect with?

searching peace

Seaker40, I think your "chance" meeting with those two college students was meant to be. I believe that there is a divine purpose for that meeting. I don't know what that could be. But I do believe the three of you were there to help eachother or maybe they were sent to help you realize and come to terms with some things. ????

Fluffer

Seaker - please don't take this the wrong way, but if someone has strung you along for 5 years, they will probably try to continue to do so if their free ride is threatened. I wouldn't let her waste any more of your life - your time is the most precious thing you have. You should tell her the time for change is now and leave if she doesn't. It's pretty obvious she's playing you. No disrespect to any therapists out there, but they get paid by the hour and they will be processing her issues for years if you let them, probably on your dime. Selfish people are like children - they will push you to get what they want until you push back and set a clear boundary. The sooner you do that, the better.

Seaker40

I hear you, I think this often. I'm leaving town for a week with my son for some father-son time. I'll have a week to contemplate what I'm going to do. I'm on the fence between two options, and may think of more.

The problem I seem to have is that when I'm around her, and if she's being nice, then I just want to salvage the marriage and try to make it work. I let her get in my head and she knows how to manipulate me. In many ways it's just a big power game she's playing. When I'm away, being objective, I look at the marriage and how she acts and think, "I'd be better off without her."

I should probably listen to that objective voice more, it's just not easy. I've seen how good it could be, but I don't know if we can reach that point again. Not so much trying to go back to the ways things were, but rather evolve into something even better. I do believe that is a possibility, but I don't know if it's likely.