[QUOTE=ihatealcohol80;5431202]I see no purpose in her being sent to jail. She is a non violent offender who made a mistake. Shockingly, she admitted to morning drinking for months prior. [QUOTE]

She is only a non-violent offender by luck, chance or the will of the gods!!! NOT by her actions. The kids are LUCKY she didn't have a serious accident with them inside the bus. Ever seen a bus accident with children in it? I have...and VIOLENCE personifies what happens.

She WILLFULLY drank with kids in the bus. She CHOSE to put their lives at risk. That isn't a 'mistake'.

Im sorry but I think you are both in denial...

I think ihatealcohol is in denial because to accept the facts of the situation, he might have to face the reality, and that could mean the terrible pain of an ended relationship. This is a women he loves and doesn't want to lose. He believes he loves her so much he can't live without her. He is probably afraid to be alone. The only options to maintain his current life and avoid that pain are to deny the seriousness of the problem. I completely understand, as I married an alcoholic who is sober, but honestly sometimes acts with alcoholic behavior. At this point I am unwilling to leave, because I want to honor my marriage vows regardless. If I'm honest with myself, I am also terrified of being alone, of sleeping in a bed by myself, having no one there to come home to, etc. But then again, my husband is not currently in crisis and did not drive a busload of children drunk. All this to say, I understand the avoidance of heart wrenching pain at all costs. I just hope charging into this chaos doesn't bring even more pain. I fear it will, but ihatealchohol will have to find his own path.

Wow. That's so depressing to read but SO spot on. Thank you for sharing.

Yup, it feels much less scary to close your eyes and hope really REALLY hard that this will all just go away. I wound up leaving my second husband a few months after we got married. Part of me wanted to stick it out--we had moved across the country, completely given up our old lives, and to come back alone felt like defeat.

Fortunately I knew enough about alcoholism to see that this was going to a very, VERY bad place. Actually, I knew enough that I never should have married him in the first place, but I put my little denial goggles on and hoped for the best.

Sometimes reality bites.

i guess I am confused. The OP blames his fiancee's drinking on an abusive childhood, yet visits from her parents improved her mood. Her primary caretakers didn't abuse her? Or they let others do it and she bears them no ill will.

I was also unaware that drinking and driving were victimless crimes. The wife and daughters of the man my father killed by drinking and driving certainly thought there were victims involved.

Something is just not adding up......you have repeatedly pushed your financial agenda, yet your fiancé is a bus driver. You mention a $400 watch which is but a trinket of jewelry - yet toss out numbers like 30k as if its $20. You have repeatedly stated that she is in this Rehab because it was the only one available, when you could have put her in a multitude of rehabs within 24 hours anywhere in the country. You stated that the money you had saved for the wedding went to her pay for her DUI attorney instead, yet 30k a month is no big deal to you. Why would you have to 'save' money for your wedding when you have so much of it?

You seem to be really full of it, or maybe you are trolling.

P.S. There are members on here that have a lot more money than you - and you wouldn't know it because they don't mention it. Its boring and uncouth. Everyone here shares a common denominator of alcoholism in their lives socio-economic status not withstanding. Nobody gives a sh*t about your money fables.

I was wondering about that, myself. $30 k for the rehab, plus attorneys' fees, wedding expenses...

Not computing.

A 30k debt would problem hurt me more than I stated. From the tons of stories I've read here, I noticed many go to several treatments. It seems like a revolving door. My point is I just want my fiance to get it the first time. I will see how her attitude is tomorrow. Maybe she will show some remorse? As I stated, this is all new to me. My idea of an alcoholic was the dirty guy cleaning the windshields off the highway. Thanks everyone for hanging with me.

The treatment industry has been changing a lot in the last few years. New laws have been passed where where facilities must now use evidence based treatment such as CBT, Motivational Interviewing and other behavioral therapies because these are shown to work and have research to back it up. Also looking for underlying causes, and any coexisting conditions . But many rehabs have only just begun incorporating these things into their programs. I think its Hazelton which is a prominent 12 step facility didnt begin to add evidence based treatments until about 3 years ago. many rehabs still dont offer it, or they do the minimum because it costs money to have licensed medical professionals on staff. There have been some large rehabs had to merge to stay profitable. Insurance companies can now deny paying for treatment if the programs are not evidence based. This has come about because people were not getting better and it was a revolving door. I didnt know any of this when my husband needed help for his addiction. Thankfully his parents helped and I believe my husband got the care he needed because the doctors set up a protocol just for him, specific to his needs and his personality.

But its not always about the price of the rehab so dont be fooled. there are good quality programs in local hospitals but people have to decide what it is they are looking for and seek it out.

you would put thought into cancer treatment right? how about psychiatric care for clinical depression, or an eating disorder like bulemia or a heart condition. Addiction is a medical problem, at least to me and so these are the standards I follow.

even with the best of care people can relapse early on because addiction happens in the brain and its tricky to treat. I have no respect for rehabs that blame the patients for relapse. My husband came home for a visit at 30 days and he lapsed on some drugs that were hidden at home. I didnt know until he went back in. But you know what? He was not punished, ridiculed, or shamed by the doctors at the rehab. instead they talked to him, asked what happened, and asked if he wanted to continue treatment because they felt it was necessary. so he did and stayed the full 90 days and then came home. In some rehabs Ive heard about he would have been kicked out and told he wasnt ready yet. So for me, that concept holds little meaning and I feel it can kill people. I feel sad for the people who dont get quality care, but Im grateful my husband did.

I was upset when I found out he lapsed, and this is when they started working with me to teach me about the recovery process. Without their guidance I would have made tons of mistakes in regards to my own actions and reactions.

My point was however, one rehab stay, especially of 30 days most likely wont be enough for smooth sailing. And its important to know other issues can come up such as PAWS. Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms and last for many months making all kinds of problems with sleep, anxiety and other physical symptoms. my husband had it and it was rough for about 8 months. we both lost a lot of sleep, and ate a lot of ice cream at 3am.

Your attitude will have a lot to do with how you get through this. Ive no opinion on what you do in terms of your relationship because I feel its a complicated matter, and your place to figure out. Right now you seem content to stay so I respect that. I was content to stay also, and still am 2 years later. I also respect people who have made the decision to leave their relationships because we all need to do whats best for us in the here and now, while considering our future also.

((hugs))

I am in a different country to you, but..

My AH went to an expensive private rehab facility.

It was interesting to me to see how many 'street' people, 'prostitutes' and 'ice addicts' there were in there.

Apparently there are a lot of family and loved ones willing to pay top dollar to get their addict (and yes, an alcoholic is an addict) into top notch facilities, who don't go quite as far as to enable the addict through providing money for drugs or housing.

So if you are sneeringly looking down your nose at 'those' people, and don't want your GF mixing with them...well I'd be saving your dollar.

My RAH is struggling at the moment - what advice did the Program Director of this expensive rehab give me...? (she is also our family addiction counsellor - a well 'regarded' psych in her own right)

hER ADVICE WAS: "Save your money and if RAH relapses and needs detox - go straight to a 'public' (in Australia this means free) facility. It will do him good!"

Everyone wants/wanted their A to get it the first time. Maybe yours will do it - if SHE wants to. It is entirely up to her.

It's very, very good you are reading all the stories here. Educating yourself about alcoholism is the best thing you can do right now.

Rehabs (any) are a revolving door because relapse is common. Fact.

It's like you think that you can splash top dollar, send her to a rehab, they will 'fix' her and voila! Everything is fine.

I think you need to educate yourself on the nature of addiction. This will be a lifelong battle for her. And you. That is also a fact. It is your choice to stay with her and absolutely lots of people do stay but keep your eyes open, be realistic about your future and the possibility that you and she might not be able to survive the impact of the addiction on your relationship.

I know it's a difficult truth to face but it is one that you will have to face either now or in the future - denial can only go so far.

I have to say something about the term "evidence-based" treatment. All that means, really, is that someone has set up a study showing that it's more effective than doing nothing. Among the "evidence-based" treatments listed on the NIH site are 12-Step based programs. The Betty Ford Center uses that approach.

AA doesn't have "studies" to back up its efficacy because of the nature of the program. It isn't run by professionals, it doesn't set up controlled studies. Those who have attempted to study it from the outside have drawn a wide range of conclusions. Recovery from addiction is notoriously difficult to study. Is staying away from a substance, yet leading a miserable life a "success"? What about continual relapses and eventually solid sobriety? Is that a "success"? Who keeps track of whether someone is telling the truth about their personal success?

There is a book I had in college, "How to Lie With Statistics"--the title is tongue-in-cheek, but you can tweak statistics to show just about anything you want to show. As mentioned by several posters, rehab is big business. So you can weigh lack of studies against to likelihood of studies that may be poorly designed or interpreted. Most important, absence of evidence is not evidence that something doesn't work. And not everything will be equally effective for every alcoholic or addict. Although court-ordered and other forms of compelled treatment CAN be effective--if something happens to get through to the alcoholic--any treatment is doomed to fail unless, at some point in the process, the alcoholic/addict becomes deeply committed to remaining sober--no matter what. If that doesn't happen, then all the "treatment" in the world isn't going to be successful. Ultimately no one recovers from addiction without his/her commitment to sobriety.

Really? I'd love to see a cite to these laws.

You can buy a lot of things in life, but you can't buy sobriety.

I agree. Much more depends on the motivation of the addict.

If you want to be sure your money is well spent you need to be looking for some willingness from your fiance to do so. I have not read one remark so far that would indicate that. She is there to save her a** - no judgment - many do, and I assume that was a requirement from her lawyer.

You may also want to re-eveluate your idea. There is definitely statistical evidence supporting the longer the stay the more likely recovery. Sadly that is a problem here in the US insurance companies are only willing to pay for 28 days. Before I would blow my budget on one month at a primo rehab I'd be looking for somewhere else (maybe where she is) where your dollar will go further. 90 days is preferable, 180 days would be golden.

I dont think this thread should be turned into a recovery method debate. I share my beliefs and others may share theirs. However you have misrepresented a few things I think.

The National Institute of Drug Abuse sets forth guidelines for treatment. They have determined what they feel works best. Its not coming from me, so please dont shoot the messenger. AA, NA, Smart, Lifering are all considered "support groups" and are not "treatment" per NIDA. All of these groups are optional, even though they can all be beneficial to certain people. Again, go to NIDA and read.

12 step facilitation is however an evidence based therapy. Its where a counselor works to ingratiate a patient into the 12 step program. For example, walking them through it, discussing the steps, following up each day to see if the person attended a meeting the night before, arranging transport, asking what step they are on, and did they get a sponsor. Its to promote use of the 12 step program and has been found to be successful in increasing enrollment. You can read about this at SAMHSA.

Also Evidence based treatment can be found in rehabs that use 12 step, and those that dont. As I mentioned Hazelton, Betty Ford decided to use incorporate these things plus the use of medications because statistically they found it improved results for their patients. Ive seen the medical directors speak out to clarify why they did it. However, It doesnt take away from any of the self help groups/ programs if someone wants to use them.

Again, Im only sharing facts.

Every program will stand on its own merits obviously.

I will share a review of the law and this summary comes from Palm Partners rehab who appear to offer 12 step if patients want it. Their review is easy to read is why I picked it. (I removed some parts to avoid potential drama from ensuing).

"The Mental Health Parity Act

Originally, the Mental Health Parity Act gave medical practitioners within the field of*drug and alcohol rehabilitation*new hope that access to their treatment facilities would increase as a result of the new law.

The issue lies with a part of the law called the Final Rule, which went unnoticed by most of the industry when they made their initial projections. The Final Rule states that all insurance covered treatment must be evidence-based medicine. What this means is this: the treatment methods used in facilities applied must be able to be proven effective and the level of treatment must be in accordance to what is deemed necessary by scientific studies. So, unfortunately for 12-step methods, it means that insurance can – and will – flat out refuse to pay for inpatient 12-step facilitation simply because it is not proven to be effective.

The Evidence

Two industry giants:*Hazelden and Betty Ford recently had to merge*into one program, indicative of just how much trouble the treatment industry is currently in. Betty Ford had to merge with Hazelden in order to survive under the new healthcare law and even changed up its treatment approach, focusing primarily on outpatient care.

So, just how bad is it? A major insurance company, Cigna has refused 47% more inpatient treatment claims than general inpatient treatment claims due to “a lack of evidence-based treatment.” Another major healthcare carrier, United Healthcare, has also significantly increasingly denied addiction treatment under the new law.

As a result, both insurance companies were involved in class action lawsuits. Cigna ended up settling. The American Mental Health Counselors Association considers the Final Rule as a major step forward for addiction treatment.

There are many different approaches in the treatment of alcohol and drug addiction and studies show that a multi-modality approach is the best. "

I do want to say, Im happy there are guidelines for treatment. Dont we want the best care possible for our loved ones and to improve their chances of recovery? Its ALL I wanted for my husband.

I believe the laws BlueChair refers to are the Mental Health Parity Act in the US which is a piece of 'ObamaCare.' In order for the rehabs to earn insurance payment, they need to get on board with what the medical care of your usual diseases must prove - that the pill or surgery you get cures or controls your disease. That it is 'evidence-based.' This term is old news in medical care but is the hot new thing in addiction care... and the drive is to be sure your health insurance pays for care. They all say it is for the patient, but the change is truly economically driven.

Here's a ********** by some company that gives some interesting figures in their progress in using 'evidence-based' treatment. If you look at it, it looks fine, but even their models start with the issue that the patient has to be willing for treatment. It is really hard to succeed without that.

http://www.nattc.org/resPubs/bpat/do...s/introebp.ppt

A law stating that insurance companies can deny payment for "non-evidence-based" treatment is far different from a law requiring rehabs to offer it. Your post, BlueChair stated: "New laws have been passed where where facilities must now use evidence based treatment such as CBT, Motivational Interviewing and other behavioral therapies because these are shown to work and have research to back it up." Obviously that is not true.

Incidentally, most insurance plans limit the length of in-patient treatment and the number of visits for outpatient treatment. Many people pay their own way with rehab and bypass the insurance companies entirely.

I didn't suggest that any of the programs you are suggesting are ineffective. What bothers me is your implication that "non-evidence-based" treatments are ineffective. Or even LESS effective, for a motivated patient.